Actually non-LDS Rape Question


UrbanFool
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I have a friend who was raised as a Jehovah Witness. In her adult life, she was raped. When she went to the elders (or whatever it is they have) they told her it was her own fault.

I told her that although Jesus is perfect, men are not. There are plenty of idiotic Mormons that need a personality change, but since then I've tried to research this because I couldn't believe they'd (JW's) be that backward and idiotic.

Evidently, they are.

I know Mormons are sitting ducks for bad jokes, but this is not a joke and it's not funny. It makes me want to hit the next Jehovah Witness I see .

And now I can't even remember the question I wanted to ask.

Kelly

Edited by john doe
editied foul language
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Have had experience with a few JW's and believe me when I say that they do have some very strange ideas that they come out with on every subject under the sun. Stuff that they have been fed by the hierarchy.

JW's do have Elders in their Church but they are the folks that run it, apparently.

It is hard to believe that supposedly modern men can come out with such garbage as a woman whom has been raped is her own fault. That is from the dark ages and doesn't belong in modern society.

Have had a look at the beliefs of JW's and rape. Apparently if a woman does not scream, even in the event of being held at gunpoint or knifepoint, the JW's classify it as 'fornication'. So, when they question a member on having been raped, if it becomes apparent that she was too frightened to scream and shout, they will disfellowship her.

How is your friend doing now?

Edited by Jezebel2011
to add info
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Well, she's not a JW any longer. And she has two children with another guy I'd like to punch in the mouth.

I guess the bottom line is that I can't save the world and I should probably just let this thing go, but I'm in my cosmetology class for 5 hours every night and if I'm not listening to this, I'm listening to another boyfriend crisis.

Her history, btw, is not common knowledge. It's just something she told me privately, but her new trials with the guy she's with now is part of the new stuff that comes with every new student. Or old student, or ANY student that happens through.

I'm not so sure how much more I can take.

BLAH.

Edited by john doe
edited for language
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Urban, we are not allowed to bash other religions, so I say this with caution--the Jehovah's Witness policy on members claiming that other members have sexually molested/raped them is based on the Old Testament standard that two witnesses are required. There is internet chatter about this issue, and even an organization for past "victims." I won't name it, because it would be considered an "Anti" group (though for another religion).

I'm no expert on this. I grew up around Witnesses, and never heard of this. But, your friend's story is apparently not without precedent.

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The "two or more witnesses" idea is a good one to live by.

I'd better explain what that means. In order for a rape victim to approach the elders of her kingdom hall with an accusation against a brother, she must have two witnesses to say they saw it happen. Since rape is almost always carried out in isolation, the victims cannot make the charge. If, in their pain, they do make their accusation public, they will be reprimanded for bearing false witness against the brother, and he will be treated as the victim.

Is that a good idea to live by? Speaking only of the doctrine now, I find that an outrageous standard.

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Holy cow. I try not to throw around judgment about other religions, but I find that doctrine pretty despicable and I feel very sad for any woman who's had to live alone and silent with it. :(

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Deuteronomy 22:23-27

23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

25 ¶But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:

26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

Just goes to show we shouldn't read the scriptures too literally, eh? I'd say there's a problem with both the Bible and with people's willingness to uncritically go along with it.
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Deuteronomy 22:23-27

Just goes to show we shouldn't read the scriptures too literally, eh? I'd say there's a problem with both the Bible and with people's willingness to uncritically go along with it.

Not sure what's wrong with the literal reading of what you quoted. Makes perfect sense to me.

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The two witness thing for rape has always been a convenient way to blame the woman and get the man out of trouble. Even if its a gang rape none of the gang are going to be her witness and if there were two witnesses why didnt they prevent the rape? Seriously, some cultures just dont get the idea that women are not here to degrade and use as scapegoats for every thing that happens. About time for them to grow up and grow some male symbols of adulthood.

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Well, she's not a JW any longer. And she has two children with another guy I'd like to punch in the mouth.

I wonder what's more messed up - people who have backwards notions about victims or people who want to physically assualt people them disagree with. The latter I'd say.

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Yes, I have this strange irrationality when it comes to men who can't manage to keep their pants zipped and are bent on destroying families.

Have you considered working on yourself before you get yourself in any further lather judging others?J

Edited by Snow
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I didn't grow up JW, but in another religious organisation (NOT lds neither), and when it was "discovered" (it was known earlier but no one wanted to deal with it and so no one said anything about it) when I was about 15/16 that my uncle had sexually abused me as a child, I was told that I now had demons in me (was hence given an exorcism that apparently did not "work") and was considered bound to my uncle for life in the same way that a wife is to her husband (even though as a child I was not capable of giving consent - so it's all nonsense - man I really want to use some bad lanuage right now!), not to mention the fact that I was blamed for having "seduced" him even though the abuse had started when I was about 4/5, and then on top of it all having family members believe him over me and telling me to "get over it" and "Oh no, he couldn't have possibly done it, he is soooo good with kids" DUH they are such dumbos! It's called grooming! Ugh.

Found it very, very painful to say the least.

What you describe for this girl with her experience with JW elders or leaders, or whatever they are called in their denomination, is not an uncommon experience for abuse victims (or survivours depending on how one likes to view it) when going to authority figures from almost any back-ground. It's horrible to say, but I'd say that it would even happen within our own church (LDS). I knew a girl who was Hari Krishna, who went through much the same thing, another from an evangellical church (I think AOG), and yet another who was Muslim, and in each case, they came up against authoritarian figures in the church, religious group, mosque, who would in essence, get them to "shut-up" and put them down as being to blame. I know of others who have been backed by their religious group/organisation which is awesome, but so sad to see girls and women and men and boys hushed up and blamed for sexual abuse in the name of religion.

At the end of the day, people will use religion/religious views or beliefs, regardless of what religious back-ground it is from, as a means to an end to justify excusing or ignoring rape, or child-abuse, or domestic violence, or murder, or whatever else.

People will also use false logic and arguments in the same manner, i.e. she was drunk at the party and had passed out so it's her fault that she was gang-raped etc...

It is the people who do it. And people will suffer. Religion doesn't do it, although people can create some pretty horrendous dictates in a religion itself - but at the end of the day religion will just be used (by people) as a means to an end. So sad and ironic: sad because this is the main reason I left religion altogether in the first place, and ironic because it is one of the things that I resolved with Heavenly Father in the process of becoming a Mormon and hence how I am on here today.

*Hugs* to your friend, I hope she is safe and well at the moment.

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FunnySheila...power post, and so true. The perp is the ultimate culprit. Perhaps the reason that some religious organizations suffer spillover blame is that they could do much more to protect the children, but seem bent on circling the wagons, and defending leadership instead.

Courts are now saying that even religious congregations can have civil and criminal liability if they do not have policies and procedures for protecting children. When I was a teen--14-16-ish, I was in charge of the 4th grade boys Sunday School class. Today, that adolescent would be an assistant, and no children are not left with just one adult or teen.

The key is whether we learn from past errors. Will we defend ourselves or protect our innocents?

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