Do I tell her Bishop and stop her temple wedding?


sm1487
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Eowyn, the proper thing to do would have been to make note of it to the temple presidency. They are responsible for making the determination of worthiness in the temple.

LDSJ, you are assuming too much. You are assuming she has repented, that she's told her fiancee, and that the Easter Bunny will soon appear to bring chocolate and eggs to all the kiddees in fantasy land. It is not our place to judge, only to ensure the Judge in Israel is aware of the situation. Once shared with the bishop, then it is his issue to manage, not ours. And yes, the young man must also confess his own sins, and allow the judge in Israel to determine the best course of action.

Bishops are called of God, but are not mind readers or psychics. We help them by sharing such information and then allowing them to decide how best to handle it.

Rameumptom,

You have a point but are you also judging? Are you assuming that the jilted boyfriend would be telling the truth? I don't know either party here, but it indeed is the responsibility of each individual to tell the truth at all times and of course during their Temple Recommend interview.

No doubt people lie and this may or may not be the case. We do not know. No one knows what is discussed in a Bishops office.

I also do not know or assume she has told her finace. BUT is is the responsibility of the finace or any man or woman before they decide to marry is to thoroughly get to know their future spouse. It is their responsibility, otherwise we would be chosing their free agency for them. If either of them choose to marry based on a lie, they will indeed suffer consequences.

And not assuming but just something to think about ..... if there were no "new guy" in the picture, and if the original relationship had continued and led to marriage, how willing would sm1487 been to go to the Bishop to confess sins? Something to think about.

According to the original post, the girl is a teenager. The two men are RM's and likely perhaps in their early 20's and very young. A lot of emotions are at play here, and I still fee that each person need to be responsibly for their actions and not the others.

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This is why the Judge in Israel must make the final decision. The problem sometimes is no one wants to get involved. Let's put it this way, if you knew someone was a child molester, but wasn't molesting your children, would you have the attitude to mind your own business, believing someday the Lord would give the person his/her comeuppance?

By handing it over to the bishop, we allow him to make the judgment. If the bishop reviews it and finds nothing wrong, then it is out of my hands and I let it be. But I wouldn't allow sin to stand in the Church, especially if it could ruin a young man's future. If the story is correct, then she's damaged one young man (at least), and may end up damaging another. I wouldn't want that on my hands, simply because I didn't want to get involved.

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Rameumptom, two observations:

1) You remark that it is a function of this young man's priesthood duty to report wrongdoing, even if he himself were an accomplice to (or, for all we know, enticed) that wrongdoing. Where the young man has not yet forthrightly disclosed his own wrongdoing to priesthood authorities, doesn't D&C 121:37 take effect and negate the young man's ability to carry out his priesthood functions?

2) You'd know this better than I, but my impression was that many Biblical commentators note that the whole point of Jesus' admonition re the woman taken in adultery ("let he who is without sin cast the first stone") was that, per Mosaic law, the witnesses had to throw the first stones and a woman's partner in adultery was barred from being one of the witnesses. Is my impression incorrect? If not, do you think it might have modern-day application?

And a third thought, to no one in particular:

The OP, and some of the responses, seem to embrace the narrative of this scheming little harlot who goes about leading virtuous young priesthood holders into fornication against their own wills. I'm sorry; I just don't buy it. I don't consider myself a feminist, but this notion still strikes me as sexist and willfully blind to what we all know about the sex drive of typical twenty-something males. Moreover, no less an authority than Alma has already debunked it:

Yea, she did steal away the hearts of many; but this was no excuse for thee, my son. Thou shouldst have tended to the ministry wherewith thou wast entrusted.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Rameumptom, two observations:

1) You remark that it is a function of this young man's priesthood duty to report wrongdoing, even if he himself were an accomplice to (or, for all we know, enticed) that wrongdoing. Where the young man has not yet forthrightly disclosed his own wrongdoing to priesthood authorities, doesn't D&C 121:37 take effect and negate the young man's ability to carry out his priesthood functions?

2) You'd know this better than I, but my impression was that many Biblical commentators note that the whole point of Jesus' admonition re the woman taken in adultery ("let he who is without sin cast the first stone") was that, per Mosaic law, the witnesses had to throw the first stones and a woman's partner in adultery was barred from being one of the witnesses. Is my impression incorrect? If not, do you think it might have modern-day application?

And a third thought, to no one in particular:

The OP, and some of the responses, seem to embrace the narrative of this scheming little harlot who goes about leading virtuous young priesthood holders into fornication against their own wills. I'm sorry; I just don't buy it. I don't consider myself a feminist, but this notion still strikes me as sexist and willfully blind to what we all know about the sex drive of typical twenty-something males. Moreover, no less an authority than Alma has already debunked it:

I agree. If the young woman is guilty then both men (or at least the OP who admitted such) is equally guilty. I do not consider myself a feminist either, but it is not like she is causing them to do something against their will. If the woman was ruining the poor guy's life then he equally ruined hers from his own participation in the sins aformentioned.

Re: the comment posted by Rameumptom in regard to the "would you report a child molester" The answer is yes I would. But that is an entirely different case where there is a minor child and victim involved and children need to be protected from harm.

However in this thread there are no victims and no children involved. The sinful acts were done from the fully aware free agency choices of consenting adults. Big difference.

Thus there is no way to pare the child molester hypothesis with the thread but if there were the question would be would one child molester turn in another.

Bottom line is it appears quite probable that had the young woman not found another man, the OP would have reported nothing. Going by sheer human nature, the situation dexcribed and the age of those involved it really looks more like getting revenge rather than protecting the sanctity of the Temple. If I am wrong so be it

If the young woman truly is this sinful temptress, then discussions with the Bishop should perhpas come from a more neutral party which then would also add to the credibility.

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I'd rather have someone be told. Secrets only lead to amplified later pain. I don't know the full circumstances to the problem. I'm sure the guy wasn't entirely the innocent bystander to sin. But if his timeline/description of events is even remotely correct, the girl's not exactly stable either.

I very much consider myself a feminist....I also see myself as pragmatic. The relationship as described, though biased from his perspective still leaves the problem of her, very young, marrying under false pretenses, and probably with unresolved baggage from her past. Stats ain't pretty for that, plain and simple.

I'd go with tell the bishop and no one else. It's no one's business, it doesn't need to become gossip fodder, and the guy might be wrong on a number of things in his story. But someone needs to know who's called to deal with such situations. I would hate to be that guy getting married. I would hate being that woman being married. It's leading to a world of pain, dissatisfaction, and at best some form of marital therapy....probably divorce. I would hope he'd also try to talk to her one more time at least as well. Even assuming this guy is a world-class hypocrite with one large beam in his eye and with an ax to grind against his ex, it doesn't change that the girl might still have some major problems on her plate too. There's no harm, in my mind, in telling your bishop and your bishop alone and maybe try to encourage her (by discretely talking to her) one last time to seek repentance as well.

I love the temple and it covenants. I believe strongly that they should be entered maturely and not be defiled. But this isn't my worry. My worry is what it'll realistically do for the people involved in the situation. The worst case scenerio pre-marriage is far better than the worst-case scenerio(s) after IMO.

With luv,

BD

Edited by bluedreams
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Your responsibility is to repent of your own sins. Quite frankly your "concerns" about her bishop and stake president "knowing" about her sins sound rather manipulative on your part to me.

A wise bishop once told me that he often knew when people were lying during TR interviews. He said that the promptings always came that it was between them and the Lord as to the consequences of those lies.

I have several friends who violated the law of chastity and married in the temple. They all eventually repented.

Get your own life in order and then find a woman, not an immature little girl, that has your standards and then take her to the temple. You will both be much happier.

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I was dating a girl for 4 months and during that time we broke the law of chastity many times and knew it was wrong as I am 24 and an RM. I told her I wasn't worthy anymore and that we needed to stop. She would agree but then break me down at her house begging me to do things with her and I would give in. She turned 18 in August and in september broke off an engagement to a bf she had during high school and then we met and within a week she was talking about marriage with me but I would tell her she needed to experience more and that I needed to be better and wanted to respect her before getting into a serious relationship.

I didn't go out with any other girls but she would go out on dates with others guys but say she only wanted to date me. We slipped up a lot though and kept breaking the law of chastity and we never confessed to a bishop what happened. She kept getting discouraged that I wouldnt get into a relationship with her but I just felt horrible and didnt want her to think that I was getting into a relationship just to be physical with her because I truly did love her. She's the type of girls that is gorgeous and sweet and caring that everyone thinks is the nicest girl in the world, but in private has a different side to her that is very lustful. I wanted her good side and didn't want the other one.

In January I got back from Christmas and we kept dating but this time I would say no to her advances in my car or at her house telling her I wanted to respect her. I finally felt ready to tell her that I loved her and to look towards marriage and confessing our sins to the bishop, but she called me up that night and said she wanted to see where things went with this other guy she had been talking to on skype for the past week and a half that i didn't know about.

I broke down and couldn't talk to her because I was too hurt. 10 days later though I went to talk to her though and told her that I loved her and to not give up on me, but she told me she was in love with this new guy and had gone down to BYU to meet him for the first time over the weekend and that they were soul mates and she received revelation that he was the only one she was meant to be with and was already planning the wedding with his mother.

A week and a half later after Valentine's they were officially engaged after 3 weeks of skype dating and they had announced they would be married in the salt lake temple in June. It's been almost a month now and I havent been able to sleep or eat and don't know what to do. Do i go to her Bishop and tell the truth of all that we did so that she can't get married in the temple and hurt this guy and his family who have no idea about any of this? I mean he just got home from a mission in october and she is suddenly acting all spiritual about the church because his family is very LDS and I don't think she wants this to come out to potentially lose him and the family she has always wanted because she wants to live out her fantasy of marriage so badly. It's deceiving and evil. I'm wondering if i should even try contacting his mother to get her to protect her family and save her son before he kneels across an altar to a girl who is lying and unworthy.

I'm going to tell my bishop everything that happened and yes im scared, but im more worried about her covering this up and possibly hurting a good family. I've seen this exact scenario happen before and it tore a family apart and I don't want to see it happen again.

Please help, what should I do?

You clearly are trying to get back at her.

If you have concerns. Talk to her about it. It's her job to repent of her sins and not yours. You sound like a spurned suitor who has a lot of growing up to do.

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This young man has the self responsibility to confess his sins to his bishop. But he also has the responsibility to not allow sin to continue in the Church.

JAG, as for Jesus and the woman caught in adultery, the problem with the story is the woman was brought forth, but no man. How can she be accused alone? That Jesus gave her mercy is his prerogative as God.

If our guilty young man were to accuse her, but not confess himself, then he would be as the accusers of the woman caught in adultery. However, if in making his own confession, he has the desire to help her repent and perhaps protect an innocent RM from being sealed in the temple to someone unworthy of it, is an important issue.

As for the Mosaic Law not allowing a man who was involved to act as accuser, that no longer applies. We are expected to 1. confess our own sins, and 2. ensure sin does not creep into the Church. So, when a person is sustained for a calling, we are all asked to sustain the person. There is one reason why we should not do so, and that is because we know the person has committed a grievous sin. This allows the church leader to then ask the person who did not sustain his reason for not doing so. In determining this, the church leader then has the responsibility to determine whether the accusation is valid and needs judgment, whether the accusation is valid but already dealt with, or if the accusation is invalid.

This is how the Church works.

I can only imagine the horror of being sealed to a pretty young lady in the temple, and months later rumors appear that she's been sleeping around, perhaps with many guys! What do you do then? Do you divorce? Do you hold on, knowing she will then probably be excommunicated because she lied to get into the temple? Personally, I would be thanking this young man for confessing and letting the bishop ahead of time concerning the girl I was about to marry.

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"Out of the mouths of two or three witnesses", Rame.

Does he have a witness to her adultery? No? Then he can only confess himself and not confront her.

That said, if it seemed he was doing this because it was the correct thing to do, that would be one thing. All the vibes he's giving off was that he was doing it to get back at her. He constantly talks about how he was affected by her behaviour, how she seduced him.

He hadn't even told his own Bishop and was already talking about telling hers. If he was agonizing over telling the bishop out of love, the answer might be different. That does not seem to be the case and that's a bad state of mind to be worrying about someone else's repentance.

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Funky, this is baloney. The Lord has a pattern and it is explained regarding such things in the handbooks, and in D&C. D&C says we should first take an offense to the individual. If they do not respond, then we have the responsibility to take it to the bishop. The bishop should investigate the charge, and make his own determination from his investigation of the facts.

I've made clear that he must also confess his own sins. So your constant attempt to play your straw men is futile. There is a correct process, and I've explained it consistently every time. That I've served for years in bishoprics, stake high council, stake clerk, and many other positions that have me involved in church disciplinary councils, etc., counts for something. There is a proper process. You can try and find a verse here or there to counter it, but it does not dismiss the fact that the Church works these things in an orderly manner.

As it is, I'm done explaining the Church's position on what should be done. You are all welcome to continue debating on here whatever other position you may have. However, just remember that there is an official Church position. You can either follow that process, or choose another from some other source. I choose to follow the Church's leaders as a source. You are free to choose any other source out there.

And with this, I'm done with this thread.

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Rame? You're misusing the word 'Strawman' here. I did not ascribe a position to you that you do not take in order to knock it down.

The OP has the responsibility to tell his Bishop, then ask what he thinks he should do. If the Bishop says to go tell the other Bishop, great! If not, then he needs to let her work out her own salvation.

Funky, this is baloney. The Lord has a pattern and it is explained regarding such things in the handbooks, and in D&C. D&C says we should first take an offense to the individual. If they do not respond, then we have the responsibility to take it to the bishop. The bishop should investigate the charge, and make his own determination from his investigation of the facts.

I've made clear that he must also confess his own sins. So your constant attempt to play your straw men is futile. There is a correct process, and I've explained it consistently every time. That I've served for years in bishoprics, stake high council, stake clerk, and many other positions that have me involved in church disciplinary councils, etc., counts for something. There is a proper process. You can try and find a verse here or there to counter it, but it does not dismiss the fact that the Church works these things in an orderly manner.

As it is, I'm done explaining the Church's position on what should be done. You are all welcome to continue debating on here whatever other position you may have. However, just remember that there is an official Church position. You can either follow that process, or choose another from some other source. I choose to follow the Church's leaders as a source. You are free to choose any other source out there.

And with this, I'm done with this thread.

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I've made clear that he must also confess his own sins. So your constant attempt to play your straw men is futile. There is a correct process, and I've explained it consistently every time. That I've served for years in bishoprics, stake high council, stake clerk, and many other positions that have me involved in church disciplinary councils, etc., counts for something. There is a proper process. You can try and find a verse here or there to counter it, but it does not dismiss the fact that the Church works these things in an orderly manner.

As it is, I'm done explaining the Church's position on what should be done. You are all welcome to continue debating on here whatever other position you may have. However, just remember that there is an official Church position.

Ram, I know you said you were done with the thread, but are you aware of a specific passage in the CHI supporting your position? I'm aware of D&C 42:88-89, but taking that literally, I could haul my neighbor in front of a Church court for running over my pet cat. If there's been further official clarification, I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks--

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Think about the new fiance. If he is a good, righteous man, he would probably want to know what kind of girl she really is. He should know the full truth before he gets into a marriage relationship with her. If I were you, I wouldn't really worry so much about _her_ salvation as she obviously isn't very worried about it; I would worry more about the poor unsuspecting man who she is going to marry. If I was him, I would definitely want to know the kind of girl she really is.

If you tell him and he doesn't believe you (maybe he thinks you're lying to get him to dump her), well then at least you tried to warn him. Later on in their marriage when they have problems, he'll realize you weren't lying, and then at that point he'll more fully understand what he is dealing with. So even if he doesn't believe you now, there is a good chance down the road he may come to believe you. If he DOES come to believe you, (whether it be sooner or later), then it will be helpful to him to know the full truth. Because isn't it always better to know more truth than less?

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Think about the new fiance. If he is a good, righteous man, he would probably want to know what kind of girl she really is. He should know the full truth before he gets into a marriage relationship with her. If I were you, I wouldn't really worry so much about _her_ salvation as she obviously isn't very worried about it; I would worry more about the poor unsuspecting man who she is going to marry. If I was him, I would definitely want to know the kind of girl she really is.

If you tell him and he doesn't believe you (maybe he thinks you're lying to get him to dump her), well then at least you tried to warn him. Later on in their marriage when they have problems, he'll realize you weren't lying, and then at that point he'll more fully understand what he is dealing with. So even if he doesn't believe you now, there is a good chance down the road he may come to believe you. If he DOES come to believe you, (whether it be sooner or later), then it will be helpful to him to know the full truth. Because isn't it always better to know more truth than less?

My only issue with this discussion is that it appears that there are some here that believe that the young woman should bear the entire responsibility when entering into marriage.

Is this to assume that the groom to be is an unsuspecting naive with no responsibility to get to know the woman he plans to marry BEFORE he proposes marriage. What ever happened to prolonged dating and long engagements where people could get to know the person they plan to spend the rest of their lives with.

From the original post if all is factual and not based on emotions, what we have here is three immature kids, and all three of them should mature a LOT befoere they even consider marriage.

Couple number one were both wrong do disobey the law of chastity. Couple number two may or may not be doing the same.

Chances are if boyfriend number one goes to the Bishop the only thing that solcves is his revenge for tharting a Temple marriage, but likely the couple will have a civil marriage and then to Temple after.

Personally it looks like all three parties involved need to grow up before they try and make adult decisions. They are ALL responsible for their actions and their decisions.

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I was talking with my roomate the other day and he knows that some things happened and that I broke the law of chastity with her as I told him why I was crying and so upset back in february. This week he told me that after i talked to him in february he decided to contact her new bf over facebook and said in his message that he told him the she had broken the law of chastity with me and was not prepared or ready for a temple wedding and to hold off on the engagement as 3 weeks wasn't enough time to get to know her and that he needed to protect himself.

He said he didn't get a reply back from the guy but that the next day he proposed to her anyway and sent out an event invite to their temple wedding in June. She then blocked my friend on facebook while her new fiancee didn't. So i'm pretty shocked and even more concerned. I think she downplayed everything that my friend told him or she said it was all a lie because if he confronted her and she admitted it was true then she would have gone to her bishop. If she truly has gone to her bishop and told him absouletely everything, then he would have definitely contacted mine and brought me in for serious questioning since i am an RM and we live in the same town, but that hasn't happened.

I understand when people say that I might be just trying to get back at her and not really trying to protect the Temple, but I have everything to lose here and would have no reason to lie about the details and events that took place if i am 100% positive that i will be disfellowshipped or ex-communicated for our actions. I know what I need to do, i'm absolutely terrified but know it is the only way to be made clean by confessing my sins so that we both can be put on a path of repentance and make it right before it gets so much worse and the consequences multiply for her if she lies and goes through the temple with him.

I do love this girl and i was foolish and wrong in not having us go to our bishops when the first sin was committed and could have avoided all this but i was a coward and too scared. I should have recognized my obligation to be with her and marry her after all we had done and should have taken care of this right from the start so none of this would have happened and no more people were affected. The Miracle of Forgiveness says that she and I should have been married because of our repeated sexual actions so as to keep the sin in one family but now I have allowed it to spread into the lives of her new fiancee and his family and I feel horrible.

Yes it is up to her fiancee to get to know her and make his own choices, but how is he suppose to make a right choice if she is knowingly manipulating his agency by lying about very serious sins that if known would very likely have resulted in him running the other direction or at least slowing down and making sure she is fully repentant first?

LDSJewess your question is very relevant on what would have happened if there was no new guy in the picture and if i would have then come forward to confess or would have kept it to myself.

I had planned a date for us which was suppose to happen 2 days after she left me, where we would go to dinner and afterwards I would take her to the temple grounds and finally tell her i loved her and wanted to marry her, but that before we could do that we needed to sit down with ecclesiastical leaders together to confess our sins and see when we would be able to get married in the temple after our repentance process, or if they instead insisted on us to be married civilly as soon as possible. I knew she wanted to get married in the temple this summer but I knew we wouldn't be able to that soon and it might take a whole year and I was afraid to break that news to her.

Just a Guy, she is not a scheming harlot or i dont think she is. She is the sweetest, nicest, and kindest girl you could meet, but she did have another side to her in private. My experiences with her does make it sound like i was forced against my will and that it was her fault but no it was mine as well and i let things happen. I will say that she had a sex drive that was out of control and surprisingly way higher than a 24 year old male's though and that 95% of the time she was the one instigating to break the law of chastity and I really would try to say no and stop it, but in no way am i trying to say that i am at less fault or a lesser responsibility, when im the one who has been through the temple and served a mission. I'm not an innocent bystander. Did i feel forced or very pressured by her to do things a lot of the time, yes. Did i say no and try to stop the majority of the time, yes. Did i run like joseph did, no. Now there are consequnces for that.

I am not trying to get back at her. I am not a spurned lover. Of course i am upset over all that has happened, who wouldn't be? But rameumpton wrote how it is my responsibility to have this come out to our bishops so that she doesn't face ex-communication if she goes forward with a temple wedding. I dont want this guy to find all this out after the fact and have a potential divorce happen and hurt him and his family. If anything i want this to be taken care of so they can be married in the temple worthily in the future, and if this leads to him not being able to trust her and getting out of a situation that was based on lies from the start, then he will be able to move on and find a righteous girl to take to the temple. If she ends up losing him over this then ya i may look like a horrible person trying to get back at her, but at least she will be able to repent and be clean so that in her future she might be married in the temple worthily as well. Thats what i want, im tired of carrying this burden and want to be worthy again myself so that i can be married to a woman in the future that i know i won't deserve.

I just have this conflict inside of me where different scenarios play out such as this comes out and they break up and she leaves the church and i ruin her life, or i say nothing and just fix myself and she gets married in the temple unworthily but is at least happy while i live with the guilt the rest of my life of not letting her bishop help her repent. The selfish part of me would want him to leave her and have her come back to me and then have us get married which would then satisfy the sin staying in one family, or we both are able to repent and she is able to marry him in the temple and i am able to be clean again and find someone else. I'm just afraid of which outcome it will be.

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I dont want this guy to find all this out after the fact . . .

But he already knows. You told us as much in that very same post.

Otherwise: Nothing much else that I can add here. If anything, the short engagement period puts that much more pressure on you to get your own house in order first.

My advice: Confess to your bishop this Sunday. Don't mention the girl's situation unless he specifically asks.

The next Sunday, if the bishop still doesn't know the girl's identity and you still feel the same overarching urge to warn the Church authorities about her, go ahead and meet with the bishop again and let him know your concerns.

Then, forget about her.

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My dear confused and concerned friend,

As concerned as I am regarding her I am also very concerned regarding you. I see your fear of punishment as preventing you from repentance.

Please understand that you are being decieved.

You do not understand the blessings you are forfieting. You do not understand how much power over you this gives the Adversary.

I wish I could unfold to you the true cost of your unrepentance. If I could you would not walk but would run to your Bishop.

In your search for what you should do I refer you to read D&C 104 & 19.

D&C 58

43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

D&C 95

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you whom I love, and whom I love I also chasten that their sins may be forgiven, for with the chastisement I prepare a way for their deliverance in all things out of temptation, and I have loved you—

I ask you brother, won't you repent? Won't you confess your sins?

I testify to you from the bottom of my soul that the Atonement is real.

Won't you let him heal you?

Jesus Christ is your redeemer. I know he lives and he loves you oh so very much. Please, won't you repent?

I'm convinced that in doing so you will find the answers you seek as to what to do with her. Though you might find it a bit sharp, 3 Nephi 14:3-5 came to mind just now and I offer it for your pondering.

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This thread gets weirder and weirder.:eek:

OK the guy "knows" or at least has been alerted. Now you should forget about her, and take care of yourself.

IMHO the new guy already knows what he's getting into, and is probably already participating in any and all unchaste acts with this particular girl, if what you said in your original post is even close to the truth.

Clearly you still have feelings for her and would like to break up her pending marraige, and want us to "bless" that by advocating even more proactive actions than have already been done.

Don't look here to justify your actions. I said it before: Leave it alone. It's none of your business now, if it ever was in the first place.:mad:

Edited by mrmarklin
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Throwing this in:

I think you are seriously misunderstanding what "The Miracle of Forgiveness" said on the subject.

I also think you're becoming obsessed with this girl's choice. The fiance already knows.

You are not ruining her life by not getting involved/getting involved. If she leaves the Church in the future, it's her fault. If she does have a happy marriage that one day is worthy, she did something to make sure of that. Her salvation is not in your hands.

If you want to make this known, which probably is the best idea, confess to your bishop about what you did. In all likelihood, he might want to know who the girl is.

It was not your friend's responsibility to inform the fiance. At that point, the information was second-hand and probably considered rumor.

Edited by Backroads
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I dont want this guy to find all this out after the fact and have a potential divorce happen and hurt him and his family. If anything i want this to be taken care of so they can be married in the temple worthily in the future, and if this leads to him not being able to trust her and getting out of a situation that was based on lies from the start, then he will be able to move on and find a righteous girl to take to the temple. If she ends up losing him over this then ya i may look like a horrible person trying to get back at her, but at least she will be able to repent and be clean so that in her future she might be married in the temple worthily as well. Thats what i want, im tired of carrying this burden and want to be worthy again myself so that i can be married to a woman in the future that i know i won't deserve.

I just have this conflict inside of me where different scenarios play out such as this comes out and they break up and she leaves the church and i ruin her life, or i say nothing and just fix myself and she gets married in the temple unworthily but is at least happy while i live with the guilt the rest of my life of not letting her bishop help her repent. The selfish part of me would want him to leave her and have her come back to me and then have us get married which would then satisfy the sin staying in one family, or we both are able to repent and she is able to marry him in the temple and i am able to be clean again and find someone else. I'm just afraid of which outcome it will be.

I've been through what you've been through with an equally-in-need-of-counseling fiancee some years back and I think I was just as blind at the time that the girl had SERIOUS issues as you are to that fact with your ex.

Why haven't you gone to your bishop yet? Seriously. If this is about "your mistakes" and "your burdens" go see your bishop. You keep saying you need to but are on here instead asking if you should go tell her bishop so that you can prevent HER wedding.

The simple truth above all else is that you aren't, as you see it, carrying some sort of burden for whatever she did wrong if she does or doesn't repent. Your responsibility in terms of your repentance is to take care of yourself. If you repent and she doesn't -- that's not on you.

As to whether you tell her bishop, be mature and let her move on and live her life. What she discusses with her bishop/stake president is between them and God and NOT YOU. If you feel she's not worthy, guess what, it's not your call. You don't get to decide that. If her bishop signs off on a recommend and she lied to him, that's between her and God. And not you. I get that you feel responsible because you were a participant but it's not your place to act as her bishop and decide her worthiness.

Do people go through the temple unworthily? Do people take the sacrament unworthily? Sure. No question. But that doesn't mean that because they don't "get it" now that they won't figure it out down the road and repentance is still just as available to them then as it is now. A person can repent from both sins and from going through the temple unworthily. And if the person doesn't - well, that's between that person and God and, to be blunt, but who are you to make a judgment call on ANYONE other than yourself??

I get how much she probably broke your heart and how much you want to tell her bishop and for her fiance to really, really know (particularly by way of having the wedding pushed back or whatever) because I've been there and it hurts to feel wronged and like you're getting the short end of the stick.

But if you really love her and you really want to be altruistic, leave it alone, worry about yourself, and let her work her life out on her own. She knows right from wrong and it is NOT YOUR PLACE to try to force her hand if she chooses something different than you want her to do. Let her live her life and worry about yours. When I was in your situation, as hard as it was, I left it alone, and now looking back it was the best decision in the world and I'm glad I spent a little more time worrying about myself than my ex.

(as a sidenote, if you really think that if things between her fiance and her were to end that you at this point, without years of counseling for her, have a shot at a happy marriage with her you are myopic and unrealistic. You've written enough about her to indicate to anyone objective that she has a LOT of stuff to get through before she will be ready for a happy, functional marriage.)

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I'm going to throw one more thought into this - if a person commits an offense than probably warrants excommunication or disfellowship but never reports it and years go by and the person doesn't repeat the offense and lives a faithful life then the fact the person never reported it and went through a counsel is not waived in in his/her face and held against him/her. The years of abandonment of the sin and living faithful may evidence complete repentance and make any sort of excommunication, disfellowship, or even church counsel unnecessary.

No question it's better to handle these sorts of things up front but the point being the gospel is more focused on saving souls who repent than setting traps to send them to hell. Each person's ability to appreciate repentance and to complete that process differs. Again, the point is don't use "trying to save her" or "protect her fiance and his family" as an excuse for meddling in her life, which no longer includes you.

And I do agree with the other comments that you are misinterpreting/misapplying The Miracle of Forgiveness to your situation.

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Oh please don't let anyone misinterpret Guast's comment in thinking that by putting off repentance they can mitigate the eventual cost to do so!

Oh please don't let anyone think that by waiting a few years before confessing, in hopes of avoiding possible consequences, will save them suffering in the end!

It is the desire and intent of the Adversary that men should procrastinate their repentance. He knows that the longer full repentance is put it off the more likely it will never occur!

Not to mention the increased difficulty and cost to repent that would come from not only the increase number of offenses but also the increased diversity as well!

I hope no LDS member is so unclear as to the doctrine of repentance as to be ignorant that for sexual sins of this nature, confession to their Bishop is both critical and necessary. Having made and then broken covenants, they can not complete the repentance process without this step.

My dear confused Brother,

Have you repented?

D&C 58:43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

How can the Holy Ghost guide you properly while you remain in this state of sin?

President Joseph Fielding Smith said:

“The Holy Ghost will not dwell with that person who is unwilling to obey and keep the commandments of God. … In such a soul the spirit of the Holy Ghost cannot enter. (Reference)

Helaman 4:24 And they saw that they had become weak, like unto their brethren, the Lamanites, and that the Spirit of the Lord did no more preserve them; yea, it had withdrawn from them because the Spirit of the Lord doth not dwell in unholy temples—

Yes, a LDS member who has committed those sins which are second only to the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost, can then, being devoid of the Spirit, without full repentance, potentially remain faithful for years. Then again I also potentially have the chance of winning Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes as well.

The truth is that the vast majority of those who pursue this route will fall into more and more sin as well as either inactivity or apostasy and in the end, suffer far greater than they otherwise ever would have had they not procrastinated the day of their repentance. May God grant that even then such individuals will be lead to repentance in this life rather than procrastinating their repentance until it is everlastingly to late.

Alma 39:5 Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost?

D&C 19:20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.

Again I also promise you, that by repenting and confessing to your Bishop, you will receive the guidance needed to properly handle the situation with your Ex in the sight of God.

Brother, in the name of our Savior Jesus Christ, I invite you, plead with you and even beg you. Will you not repent?

Edited by Martain
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