Trump Warns "Massive Inflation" Coming...Prepare

[lds2]

Great discussion. It's interesting that so much truth can be said on both sides of one.

I can see gold and silver having value after a major downturn for a time,

But if you had a thousand or two dollars I would strongly encourage y'all to get what the Prophets have warned us to have safely stored in our homes.

Forty years ago we had manufacturing, home gardens and orchards in back yards, and many had the skills to grow, prepare, sew, weld, and fix things themselves.

Now we are highly dependent on disposable products (buy a new one when it breaks) that last a short time before they need to be replaced. These products are brought in over great distances from around the world.

If something were to happen such as a severe gas shortage because of middle-east tensions, or other calamity effecting transportation, we would be looking at living on what we have locally and in todays deliver it only when it is needed society there wouldn't be much in our cities to go around.

If you have the basics, I think having a lot of small change in silver and gold is more useful because how would you pay for bread, milk or meat with a quarter ounce of gold if something happened to the dollar? That's just my opinion though...FWIW

[NeuroTypical]

I'm not an expert on gold and silver. One thing I would like to ask the experts, is why gold and silver do not always rise and fall together in proportional amounts. There are times when gold is cheap compared to silver, and vice versa.

It would seem to me, that if Smeagums' notion was so valid, you wouldn't find times when you could make a profit by buying one low and selling the other high in the same day.

[HEthePrimate]

You can't eat gold or silver. Precious metals, gems, etc. only have the value we give them. Of course, since people like pretty, shiny things that are relatively rare, they do tend to value gold and silver, but they are not the end all and be all.

[Guest]

... and Federal Reserve printing.

As a programmer, this bugs me a bit. They don't really print money anymore to inject the economy with new cash. Besides, the Fed Reserve do not print money anyway. The treasury does.

[Guest]

If you have the basics, I think having a lot of small change in silver and gold is more useful because how would you pay for bread, milk or meat with a quarter ounce of gold if something happened to the dollar? That's just my opinion though...FWIW

Well, silver and gold are not a sure bet for barter. In a chaotic economy - like end of the modern era kind of economy - silver and gold may not remain as forms of barter. If you're talking JUST the dollar tanking, then sure, gold and silver coins... or any other stable currency. You don't even have to hold an ounce of gold in your pocket - because, if it's just the dollar that tanks, then that means foreign exchange is still up and running - with a new base currency probably - so you can still do electronic trading.

But, if we're talking end of the modern era... then you're probably going to be in a barter society. You buy bread by asking the bread maker what he wants for the bread. A breadmaker who doesn't want to be bothered by figuring out how much your gold coin is worth so he can buy a motor oil for his wheat mill would rather just sell his bread to the guy who can bring him a pint of motor oil.

[NeuroTypical]

I follow the news in hypermega inflation places like Zimbabwe, and stories from Argentina's economic meltdown back in the '90's and following problems. Folks are starving in Zimbabwe, but you can buy a loaf of bread for a fifth of a gram of gold (roughly eleven bucks). And people in Argentina have been kicking themselves for a decade at not moving out of intangibles into tangibles like silver and gold.

Yes indeed, all the bakers in Zimbabwe and Argentina know the value of gold - and so do the guys selling motor oil. The poor schmaltzes like Anatess who don't, find themselves getting parted from their precious metals pretty quickly with very little to show for it.

Yeah, when everyone is running around on fire, and buildings are falling into the big cracks opening up in the earth, and the zombies are on the move, nobody will barter with you and your gold. But the story of humanity is always that we put out the fires, build new buildings, fence off all the zombies, and start trading with each other. The only time this has not happened, is when everyone dies and there's noboby left to trade with. (And maybe the city of Enoch.) So no, you can't eat gold or silver, but no, they are not 'false economies'. Whenever people are not in the process of being enslaved by aliens, they value it, will work for it, trade with and for it, try to steal it, and some will kill for it.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[FunkyTown]

We had 5% inflation last year. If that continued for 20 years, it would be horrible.

Take your income and multiply it by .95. Do this twenty times. How much are you earning, now? If you were earning 100K/year now, you would be earning the equivalent of about 35K.

[NeuroTypical]

You mean Canada had 5% last year? Here's what it's looked like in the US:

Although yeah, it's horrible even if it's less than 5%. How many of you got a 3.1% raise last year? If you did, that means you basically are holding steady. If you didn't, that means you're falling behind.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[RescueMom]

Donald Trump can't even manage to get a decent hair cut, has the morals of an alley cat in heat and has filed for bankruptcy more than once...and I'm supposed to believe him

15 Prophets and Apostles on the other hand has been saying we need food storage and spiritual preparedness for years on end. And it has nothing to do with which country any of us live in or the government of that country...they say it to the entire world.

Of course those 15 men also say if we are prepared we have no need to fear because...we do have the winning hand. Apparently some of us didn't get the message the Savior already won the war, we simply need to have some faith and do what the Prophets have been telling us to do for the last 60 plus years.

The Donald and his groupies can live in fear all they want. I choose to live prepared and unafraid.

[lds2]

Yes we are blessed to have great wisdom from our leaders. Many of my friends tell me that last-days stuff is too scary to contemplate…I think Elder Bednar understood such feelings when he said, "Now brothers and sisters, these teachings from modern and ancient prophets about latter-day tests and trials are sobering and solemn. But they should not be discouraging, and we should not be afraid. For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, spiritual warnings lead to increasingly vigilant watching. You and I live in ‘a day of warning.’ And because we have been and will be warned, we need to be, as the Apostle Paul admonished, ‘watching …with all perseverance.’ As we watch and prepare, truly we have no need to fear.”

BYU-I Address, 2010

[Guest]

Yes indeed, all the bakers in Zimbabwe and Argentina know the value of gold - and so do the guys selling motor oil. The poor schmaltzes like Anatess who don't, find themselves getting parted from their precious metals pretty quickly with very little to show for it.

Well, coming from the tiny country of the Philippines that didn't care about gold or silver because they make for poor weapons before the Spaniards came to kick butt... I can very easily say, gold and silver is great if you're in a government that recognizes its value. Tribal governments (for which a post modern era is very possible that we go back to) like that which existed in the Philippines before the Spanish colonial era don't really care much for metals that hold no value for a tribe. Precious metals to who? The semi-conductor makers? Well, that's if, we still have semiconductors then. There were no gold coins or silver coins before the Spaniards came with their "new" government. Tribal Filipinos (of course, they weren't Filipinos then - country didn't exist) bartered their goods on the trading routes.

The most common barter currency is silk. Then comes porcelain for utilitarian wares and steel for weapons. Beads were a common currency too. Yes, there are gold pieces and pearls and beeswax that were traded too. But, the easiest to trade is silk and beads because every tribe has a chieftain who likes buying pretty things for his wife and daughters so that you can always "move" silk and beads from tribe to tribe.

Piloncitos (gold beads) became popular for trade when the Chinese joined the trade routes. The Chinese government has moved to gold coins by then.

But, when the Spaniards came, gold coins disappeared because the Spaniards brought copper coins and established that as the trade currency.

So, as you can see, precious metals are only precious to those who has the power to declare it as such.

[Smeagums]

As a programmer, this bugs me a bit. They don't really print money anymore to inject the economy with new cash. Besides, the Fed Reserve do not print money anyway. The treasury does.

The Federal Reserve loans the money to the Treasury. Either way it says on your dollar bill "Federal Reserve Note". Whether they physical print it or issue it electronically it creates inflation.

[Smeagums]

You can't eat gold or silver. Precious metals, gems, etc. only have the value we give them. Of course, since people like pretty, shiny things that are relatively rare, they do tend to value gold and silver, but they are not the end all and be all.

You can't eat paper either but there are many things I can do with metals. You are talking about doomsday scenarios. Currencies can die and it isn't the end of the world.

[Smeagums]

I'm not an expert on gold and silver. One thing I would like to ask the experts, is why gold and silver do not always rise and fall together in proportional amounts. There are times when gold is cheap compared to silver, and vice versa.

It would seem to me, that if Smeagums' notion was so valid, you wouldn't find times when you could make a profit by buying one low and selling the other high in the same day.

Historically they rest at a silver to gold ratio of 16:1. When government is able to manipulate interest rates, inflation and deflation along with many other economic factors, they too can manipulate prices. Days when silver is slammed down, February 27, someone sold 1/3 of annual silver production. Essentially, paper "silver" can be used to manipulate the true price of physical.

But you are right that someone could buy silver when the silver to gold ratio is say 50:1 and then sell when it is roughly 30:1. The ratio will once again reach 16:1 and most likely as low as 10:1.

I would also like to add that they both have been in a strong bull market since roughly 2000.

One more thing, people could be going to gold more because they worry about the volatility of silver which would cause gold to increase faster than silver.

[Guest]

You can't eat paper either but there are many things I can do with metals. You are talking about doomsday scenarios. Currencies can die and it isn't the end of the world.

Oh, but you can eat paper... like the ones that the Chinese use to wrap White Rabbit candy. I love that paper! Taste yum!

Ahhh... one of the things I miss from the Philippines - chinese candy.

Oh, you can use paper to wipe your nether regions too. I mean, yeah, you can use gold to do that but it would probably not be a good idea when it's cold...

:D:D

[Smeagums]

I can very easily say, gold and silver is great if you're in a government that recognizes its value.

So, as you can see, precious metals are only precious to those who has the power to declare it as such.

The US government doesn't recognize the value of precious metals. If they did they would allow them to be competing currencies similar to what Utah is doing.

But silver and gold didn't need Utah to appreciate. Silver and gold have been appreciating since 2000 with no government recognition at all.

Listen, I understand that a society can deem any asset they want as valuable. If there is an extreme drought water is priceless. If there is no food then food is priceless. We all understand this but say that all of these things are in abundance but the issuer of your currency continues to print more of it?

It is no difference if Apple wanted to double their outstanding shares. If they did this they would be diluting the shares and it would be very probable that the share price drops by 50%. Take a Michael Jordan rookie card for example. Say whoever printed them mistakenly printed 1 billion and instead of throwing them away stored them. Michael Jordan becomes famous and the cards, assuming the 1 billion were still stored, become very valuable. Well the man announces he has 1 billion cards and starts selling them and the value would plummet. Supply and demand works with dollars. Now if he secretly sold them one by one he could get away with it until people start to notice how many exist.

This is no different with the US dollar. We simply cannot pay our current debt, ~15 trillion, and our unfunded liabilities, ~50 trillion.

[Guest]

The US government doesn't recognize the value of precious metals. If they did they would allow them to be competing currencies similar to what Utah is doing.

But silver and gold didn't need Utah to appreciate. Silver and gold have been appreciating since 2000 with no government recognition at all.

Listen, I understand that a society can deem any asset they want as valuable. If there is an extreme drought water is priceless. If there is no food then food is priceless. We all understand this but say that all of these things are in abundance but the issuer of your currency continues to print more of it?

It is no difference if Apple wanted to double their outstanding shares. If they did this they would be diluting the shares and it would be very probable that the share price drops by 50%. Take a Michael Jordan rookie card for example. Say whoever printed them mistakenly printed 1 billion and instead of throwing them away stored them. Michael Jordan becomes famous and the cards, assuming the 1 billion were still stored, become very valuable. Well the man announces he has 1 billion cards and starts selling them and the value would plummet. Supply and demand works with dollars. Now if he secretly sold them one by one he could get away with it until people start to notice how many exist.

This is no different with the US dollar. We simply cannot pay our current debt, ~15 trillion, and our unfunded liabilities, ~50 trillion.

Smeagums. You're not understanding my post. My post clearly states - post modern era. The fall of the world economy - not just dollars - and the destruction of current governments worldwide. Think... the last scene of Terminator 3 leading into Terminator 4.

[FunkyTown]

You mean Canada had 5% last year? Here's what it's looked like in the US:

Although yeah, it's horrible even if it's less than 5%. How many of you got a 3.1% raise last year? If you did, that means you basically are holding steady. If you didn't, that means you're falling behind.

I mean England had 5% inflation last year based on the price rise of basic commodities like food, petrol and the like.

[Guest]

I mean England had 5% inflation last year based on the price rise of basic commodities like food, petrol and the like.

That's the crazy thing about American inflation... they measure it using CPI of commodities BESIDES food and petrol... how'd you like them apples?

[FunkyTown]

That's the crazy thing about American inflation... they measure it using CPI of commodities BESIDES food and petrol... how'd you like them apples?

WHAT?!?! That's INSANE. So the fact that the rest of the world has started eating like Americans, causing basic things like foodstuffs to go up in price, is being ignored? But basic commodities going up is far more indicative of global changes than the price of a Chinese headset.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I do not know who came up with those statistics on inflation. Food prices have been going up at least 10 percent per year the last two years. There is no way the United States inflation rate is 3 or 4 percent. It very likely is around 8 to 10 percent per year.

The U.S. government is also lying about our unemployment rate. Unemployment is very likely around 12 percent nation wide in the United States. If you do not collect unemployment wages then you are not unemployed according to the Federal government.

[NeuroTypical]

I do not know who came up with those statistics on inflation.

I'm not hugely invested in defending them, but the data comes from the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Consumer Price Index.

Food prices have been going up at least 10 percent per year the last two years.

What goods and services does the CPI cover?

FOOD AND BEVERAGES (breakfast cereal, milk, coffee, chicken, wine, full service meals, snacks)

HOUSING (rent of primary residence, owners' equivalent rent, fuel oil, bedroom furniture)

APPAREL (men's shirts and sweaters, women's dresses, jewelry)

TRANSPORTATION (new vehicles, airline fares, gasoline, motor vehicle insurance)

MEDICAL CARE (prescription drugs and medical supplies, physicians' services, eyeglasses and eye care, hospital services)

RECREATION (televisions, toys, pets and pet products, sports equipment, admissions);

EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATION (college tuition, postage, telephone services, computer software and accessories);

OTHER GOODS AND SERVICES (tobacco and smoking products, haircuts and other personal services, funeral expenses).

...

For each of the more than 200 item categories, using scientific statistical procedures, the Bureau has chosen samples of several hundred specific items within selected business establishments frequented by consumers to represent the thousands of varieties available in the marketplace. For example, in a given supermarket, the Bureau may choose a plastic bag of golden delicious apples, U.S. extra fancy grade, weighing 4.4 pounds to represent the Apples category.

Yeah, but if you believe the government is intentionally lying, I can see why you'd discount the chart. Edited April 1, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[mirkwood]

Food costs have been inflating for much longer then two years...more like 7-8 years. What also is not getting factored into rising food costs, is shrinking packaging/amounts, coinciding with the rising prices.

[MorningStar]

I'll listen to Donald Trump when his hair no longer looks like road kill.

[lds2]

How about "Ferfal" who has lived through an economic collapse. in Argentina..here is a link to an interview with him. He talks about signs of an inflationary economic collapse...

FerFAL: "Having the people living on the streets where it didn’t happen before. Inflation slowly going up. There’s small details. I was talking with a friend yesterday of mine from the U.S.A. He was telling me that something I had mentioned a few years ago about sizes of items and products shrinking and changing the design. It’s all very well-campaigned with good marketing and such. It’s like we’re offering this new improved product, but that new improved product happens to be just a bit smaller than it used to be, at a slightly higher price. So all those little things, the way in which they hide the inflation, they slowly creep it into your life.

...first, hiding inflation as products get smaller, but soon enough that’s just not enough either. So it starts going up as well, noticeably so, and people see that their shopping cart just isn’t filling as much as it used to. You’re just buying half of what you used to with the same amount of money, but in the official statistics they’re saying that everything is fine because they changed the way they measure inflation so as to fit what they want to show you. So, if for example, take meat, it has gone up 20 percent, they will just take into account specific type of meat that is only found in one particular location, so it’s not very real, that statistic, but that’s what they stick to."

Argentina: A Case Study in How An Economy Collapses - Blogs at Chris Martenson

At Costco I bought Nutella, Orange Juice, canned chicken and jam and paid almost $45 yesterday...my college kids are coming home this weekend and these are the foods they most like to take back with them to school...

Edited April 3, 2012 by lds2