Are we really not supposed to travel?


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Heb 4:1-11

1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

I am sure you are familiar with Jesus being the "Lord of the sabbath" and above we see scripture about entering His rest. Jesus is the sabbath. He gives us rest. Jesus said

Mat. 11:28-30

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden , and I will give you rest . 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Are you heavy laden or are you resting in Jesus?

Interesting!

When I read that passage, I'm probably not reading the same definition of 'rest' that you are.

In one sense, the term 'rest' would be likened unto a covenant with the Lord. In another, the term 'rest' would be the afterlife. But just because I entered into a covenant relationship doesn't mean that I stop working and laboring. (I probably don't need to quote Exodus where the Lord commanded to keep the Sabbath day holy.)

Mosiah 13:18-19

18 But the seventh day, the sabbath of the Lord thy God, thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates;

19 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is; wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Book of Mormon makes it pretty clear for us.

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After the Apostle Parley P Pratt died, his son used Parley's journal to finish his autobiography. He omitted some of the Sunday entries because they mentioned how many miles he travelled. He didn't want the saints using his father's example as a reason to break the sabbath. So this is a pretty old debate for church members.

The sabbath principle is that we remember our God. When Moses initially gave the commandment in Exodus, it was supposed to remind the Israelites of the Lord of Creation. Later, in Deuteronomy, Moses renewed the commandment with Israel so they would remember the Lord who delivered them from Egypt. In the days of the Apostles, the sabbath was repurposed (the Lord's day) to commemorate the Resurrection of our Lord.

Sabbath worship marks us as the Lord's people. It is always given to a people as a whole, but like many commandments we are to counsel with the Lord in the actual execution. Latter-day Saints believe the Holy Ghost is a revelator. Ask for revelation on your behalf.

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Someone said that we are not supposed to travel on Sunday?

this is strange.

When general authorities come to stake conferences they will usually arrive sat morning, usually need picking up by mission or stake president, and then they actually leave on sunday afternoon for a sunday evening or night flight and they have mondays as their day off. So I don't think there is a rule like that of not travelling on sundays.

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Interesting!

When I read that passage, I'm probably not reading the same definition of 'rest' that you are.

In one sense, the term 'rest' would be likened unto a covenant with the Lord. In another, the term 'rest' would be the afterlife. But just because I entered into a covenant relationship doesn't mean that I stop working and laboring. (I probably don't need to quote Exodus where the Lord commanded to keep the Sabbath day holy.)

Mosiah 13:18-19

The Book of Mormon makes it pretty clear for us.

There seems to be a misconception that entering His rest means that there is no work for us. That is not the case. There is much work to be done. The rest is knowing that as far as salvation in concerned, He has done the work and by grace through faith that work is reckoned to our account. In James it said that faith without works is dead. This is true.

Question, what is the difference between dead works and good works?

Hint: Do you do to be or be to do?

Also, meditate on the parable of the prodigal son. Did the returning son have to work for His restoration? Why was the other son (who was working hard) upset? Is this a picture of how our Father in heaven is?

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So, a question I've been pondering awhile - is it OK to go to the gym on the Sabbath - assuming you've gone to church? Often it's just me, my son is off doing his own thing, and if I don't have class on Monday, I wouldn't mind getting out and hitting the gym. I could say it is a way to do the upkeep on my bodily temple...

Also, what about nice car rides on Sunday?

personally I wouldnt, but thats between you and the lord. The test i would use is; "would this help me bring me closer to God?" if yes then go for it, if not, then maybe some other activity would be more appropriate.

in the times of moses that God prepared a way for the israelites while they were in the wilderness by sending them manna on 6 days of the week, and on the 6th day they were supposed to take double what they were normally supposed to take, so that they may observe the sabbath day.

In my own time i've seen blessings come to those who have sacrficed their self interests to do the lords work on sunday (mainly in conjunction with school).

Edited by Blackmarch
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I've just come out of a promotion interview. I'd like to say I've never talked so much utter drivel in my life, but sadly that's probably not true. This is an extremely busy week and I've not had much time for interview preparation, but even if I had I don't think I'd have expressed many honest opinions about "Led by Learning", supposedly the university's new motto (I kept getting it wrong and calling it "Life by Learning") and what changes should be made at School or Faculty level to facilitate this new way of thinking. I'm interested in algorithms and protocols....not mottos or high-level university policies. Then they asked me about the greater administrative responsibilities which would come with promotion, and (with perfect honesty) told them they would be a necessary evil because "research is fun", "teaching can be fun, depending..." but "administration is just boring paper-pushing". (And this is probably not the best thing to say to four high-level administrators, including the dean.) Then they started talking about "leadership", by which time I wanted to go home and hide under the duvet. Instead I droned on and on like a broken record, churning out meaningless Palinesque tripe, listening to myself and thinking "what is that idiot talking about?"

I somehow don't think I'm going to get promoted....

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Some traveling on the Sabbath is unavoidable, like going to church VT & HT, meetings, choir practice etc ... all centered on engaging in the Lords work. Sometimes the ox is in the mire so to speak and other types of traveling has to be done ... we handle it the best we can and move on. No big deal.

The brother who stayed home in the prodigal son parable was upset because he didn't understand the worth of all souls. No big mystery .. at least not that I can see ... just another teaching moment.

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Some traveling on the Sabbath is unavoidable, like going to church VT & HT, meetings, choir practice etc ... all centered on engaging in the Lords work. Sometimes the ox is in the mire so to speak and other types of traveling has to be done ... we handle it the best we can and move on. No big deal.

The brother who stayed home in the prodigal son parable was upset because he didn't understand the worth of all souls. No big mystery .. at least not that I can see ... just another teaching moment.

So the picture of the prodigal is that the son who did wrong (no work) was redeemed to an equal position as the son who was dutiful. Both sons received by the grace of their father. Our worldly expectation is that the "good" son would receive more. God is much bigger than that. The last shall be first and the first shall be last. We are all equal in Fathers eye. The wayward son is not lower than the good son. They are equal. We have a great God. Thank You Jesus.

So, this is the rest we enter into when we are first born again. This rest is the sabbath and His name is Jesus. He is the Lord of the sabbath. Confidence in this allows us to boldly enter the throne room of God. So, take a deep breath and rest in His work.

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To Maygrace:

Yes, the Lord loves the sinner and ALL who repent and offer and broken heart and contrite spirit can be forgiven, and washed clean....as in the story of the prodigal son.

How does one repent in your faith? Is it a one time occurrence, upon "accepting Christ'? In your faith are you always "saved"?

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To Maygrace:

Yes, the Lord loves the sinner and ALL who repent and offer and broken heart and contrite spirit can be forgiven, and washed clean....as in the story of the prodigal son.

How does one repent in your faith? Is it a one time occurrence, upon "accepting Christ'? In your faith are you always "saved"?

I belong to no religion. I belong to Jesus. I made Him my lord.

The greek word for repent means to change your thinking. Look it up. When John said to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. John was telling us that something new was coming and we would need to change our thinking about it. Jesus came and with Him a new and better covenant. We were no longer under the curse of the law as Paul would say. The new covenant is grace. Jesus became the curse for all of us and paid the penalty in full for the whole world with His blood. It is this work that the believers rest in today, the sabbath, Jesus.

So when you see the word repent it is telling you to think differently. This word has been hijacked by religions for centuries. Please don't get me wrong, it is OK to be sorry for your sins and to thank God for His forgiveness. Notice I did not say ask God to forgive. Why? Because He already has. Your sin He remembers no more. As far as the East is from the West. We have an awesome God.

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I belong to no religion. I belong to Jesus. I made Him my lord.

No baptism? Why was Jesus baptized?

The greek word for repent means to change your thinking. Look it up. When John said to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. John was telling us that something new was coming and we would need to change our thinking about it. Jesus came and with Him a new and better covenant. We were no longer under the curse of the law as Paul would say. The new covenant is grace. Jesus became the curse for all of us and paid the penalty in full for the whole world with His blood. It is this work that the believers rest in today, the sabbath, Jesus.

Yes, repentance means to change...not just your thinking, but your actions, your very nature. Yes, Jesus satisfied the demands of justice and made mercy available to all that believe on HIM and repent AND keep HIS commandments.

So when you see the word repent it is telling you to think differently. This word has been hijacked by religions for centuries. Please don't get me wrong, it is OK to be sorry for your sins and to thank God for His forgiveness. Notice I did not say ask God to forgive. Why? Because He already has. Your sin He remembers no more. As far as the East is from the West. We have an awesome God.

So, what causes the forgiveness to occur? How does one activate "grace". Once received....irrevocable? Is it then okay to do as I please? Here and now, if I do something wrong....I ask forgiveness and I feel sorrowful for my actions. Should we not feel an even greater sense of remorse and sorrow when we willfully transgress....perhaps a sorrow that is akin to heart break? Is Christ's Atonement not cheapened if we do not feel remorse?

Again, how does one access this automatic forgiveness and I guess guaranteed admission to heaven? What of those that die without ever hearing of Christ or died long before Christ?

Edited by bytor2112
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No baptism? Why was Jesus baptized?

Yes, repentance means to change...not just your thinking, but your actions, your very nature. Yes, Jesus satisfied the demands of justice and made mercy available to all that believe on HIM and repent AND keep HIS commandments.

So, what causes the forgiveness to occur? How does one activate "grace". Once received....irrevocable? Is it then okay to do as I please? Here and now, if I do something wrong....I ask forgiveness and I feel sorrowful for my actions. Should we not feel an even greater sense of remorse and sorrow when we willfully transgress....perhaps a sorrow that is akin to heart break? Is Christ's Atonement not cheapened if we do not feel remorse?

Again, how does one access this automatic forgiveness and I guess guaranteed admission to heaven? What of those that die without ever hearing of Christ or died long before Christ?

First about the baptism. There are three baptisms. Baptism into the body (born again, you know, when you first believe), baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism. Baptism into the body is the most important. Your spirit comes alive to God, hence, born again. You have now entered into His rest.

When Jesus died on the cross all your sins (past present and future) were forgiven.

Grace is activated by faith. You are saved by grace through faith.

About willful transgressions (are there any other kind?) they have been paid in full by Jesus. And no, it is not a ticket to ride. When you are born again the sanctification process starts, you will find that those sins of your past no longer bring you fleshly joy today. Slowly, you sin less and less. You are a new creature. Also remember there are worldly consequences to sin. Father has forgiven you, but the courts will put you in jail.

Feelling remorse for sin is normal. That is your spirit talking to you telling you not to do it anymore.

Guaranteed admission into heaven? Not really. It is Gods will for all to go to heaven, however, He gave us free will. Most people will not choose to believe in Jesus. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whomever believes on Him will not perish, but have eternal life. Believers receive eternal life. Non believers perish.

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First about the baptism. There are three baptisms. Baptism into the body (born again, you know, when you first believe), baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism. Baptism into the body is the most important. Your spirit comes alive to God, hence, born again. You have now entered into His rest.

Who performs these baptisms and how? Does it matter?

When Jesus died on the cross all your sins (past present and future) were forgiven.

Everyone...what about those that died in Noah's day?

Grace is activated by faith. You are saved by grace through faith.

How is one saved by grace through faith if they never heard of Christ? How do you have faith in something you have never heard of ? What about all those since the time of Adam that never heard of a Promised Messiah? How?

Guaranteed admission into heaven? Not really. It is Gods will for all to go to heaven, however, He gave us free will. Most people will not choose to believe in Jesus. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whomever believes on Him will not perish, but have eternal life. Believers receive eternal life. Non believers perish.

So belief...not faith activates grace? If I profess belief...do I get to go to heaven?If I profess belief, but am not sure later...have I still activated Grace? Is there any way to lose the free gift once you believe. What about adultery? Or pornography addiction? Homosexuality? You know, even if they believe, but slip up now and then.How many slip ups would it take for the Lord to not save you after you professed belief? Is there a formal way to profess belief? Or is it subjective? Does only God know if you have accepted or can someone guide you and say...."grace is now activated, welcome?" If you slip up to often or find that you enjoy say adultery too much....do you have to re-profess a belief in order to keep grace or do you need to do something like repentance?

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Who performs these baptisms and how? Does it matter?

Everyone...what about those that died in Noah's day?

How is one saved by grace through faith if they never heard of Christ? How do you have faith in something you have never heard of ? What about all those since the time of Adam that never heard of a Promised Messiah? How?

So belief...not faith activates grace? If I profess belief...do I get to go to heaven?If I profess belief, but am not sure later...have I still activated Grace? Is there any way to lose the free gift once you believe. What about adultery? Or pornography addiction? Homosexuality? You know, even if they believe, but slip up now and then.How many slip ups would it take for the Lord to not save you after you professed belief? Is there a formal way to profess belief? Or is it subjective? Does only God know if you have accepted or can someone guide you and say...."grace is now activated, welcome?" If you slip up to often or find that you enjoy say adultery too much....do you have to re-profess a belief in order to keep grace or do you need to do something like repentance?

You are asking good questions. Lets take them one by one.

Who performs the baptism into the body? When you first believe, your are baptized into the body by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.

What about Noah's sin? Jesus died for the sin of the world. 1 John 2:2 He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for our only, but also for those of the whole world.

What about those who never herd of Jesus, how can they be saved? The best example is that of Abraham. Abraham did not know of Jesus and yet Abraham believed (faith) God and it was reckoned to Him as righteousness. Just as when you are born again. Jesus's righteousness is reckoned to your account.

What about an aborigine? God has given everyone a revelation of the truth. If this person excepts to believe it then he to can be saved. Remember God looks at your heart. Thank goodness He is the judge and not you or I. Rom. 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

So belief not faith activates grace? Grace is a free gift from God for which you did not earn or deserve. Remember the prodigal son. He did not deserve the grace from his father. It is like that. The greek word for belief(pisteuo) and grace are the same here. You can interchange them.

If I profess belief...do I get to heaven? If it is true belief, then yes. God knows your heart.

What if I am not sure of my belief later? If you truly believed, you are saved. God will never leave you or forsake you.

Is there a way to lose your salvation? Yes, See Hebrews 6:4-6. To lose your salvation you need to be born again, baptized in the Holy Spirit, operating in the gifts of the Spirit etc. It is you who have to walk away from God. Once this has happened there is no going back. You can not be born again again. That would be putting Christ back on the cross.

How many slip ups would it take for the Lord not to save you? Jesus payed for the sin of the whole world and that means all sin. I again repeat, God grace is not a ticket to go sin. May it never be. The book of Jude tackles that subject.

I hope this helps.

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I drove back from Christmas break at my grandparents house to BYU-Idaho on a Sunday. I didn't really like it. I've traveled on sundays before but it felt so different when I was among church members besides my family.

My grandfather was very upset with me and the driver. 'Can't your friend drive you tomorrow?" ect. "It's the sabbath. You'll be damned to Hell!" (Note: My grandfather who I adore has a very interesting character.

When I traveled with these other students the driver stopped at a fast food place..which kind of really bugged me. It takes one day to travel from OR to rexburg, ID. They could've packed a lunch. Like, it wasn't keeping the sabbath day holy.

I know I've got issues when I forget what day it is. And that often happends on days I travel on Sunday.

My rule of thumb: If it can be avoided, then avoid it.

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My grandfather was very upset with me and the driver. 'Can't your friend drive you tomorrow?" ect. "It's the sabbath. You'll be damned to Hell!"

Can you be damned to someplace else? I'm thinking Missouri. Or California.

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