Vaccines and Mercury - My research on Safety


lds2
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My SIL (a doctor) and four other close relatives (nurses) are in the MSMedicine and so we have this conversation on a regular basis and it is seriously endless. We eventually agree to disagree.

Obviously you are very intelligent and I'm sorry about the crack about intelligent people that was meant more towards doctors who require these multiple boosters anyway. I understand how invested in this you are and so there will be no agreement here and the debate seriously is endless as it is very polarizing between the injured and those who must prove that they are in no way reponsible for the injury...and perhaps they are not. There is much we do not know...I'm sure we will both be in the front row on the lecture on the truth about vaccines during the millennium.

As a parent I would be very careful of what vaccines to give my children and at what ages. I believe the vaccine given on the day of birth is harmful and unnecessary. Even those children born to infected women will be infected coming through the birth canal long before any anti-bodies can be created by a pretty much non-existent immune system from the vaccine...and for the other infants it only "works" for the first few years of life when the chances of contracting a VD are remote. Newborn infant's immune system are best helped by nursing from their mothers rather than a vaccine which has ingredients that can be harmful to an undeveloped immune system with no way to detoxify...no tears, no BMs at first, etc. Of course it was probably much more harmful back when it had thimerosal in it, but I still would not assume that it is benign as there are other metals, chemicals, and even some unintended diseases in some vaccines that have not been proven safe especially in newborns

I have an acquantaince who wasn't damaged by vaccines until he had his missionary shots and then he went into a downward spiral into autism obvious to all around him. Now he is greatly affected by his disability and knows what it was like to have been "normal." Fortunately, he is still a brilliant individual and last we talked was working at BYU as a researcher but will probably never marry or have a family.

Another close friend's child had his 18 month old shots and started screaming and did not stop except to sleep...for 11 days. When he stopped screaming his words, play and eye contact were gone and he has regained very few of these in the years since.

Just be careful out there my friends...follow the money...and understand that there can be a tipping point for toxins and you can not tell by looking at a child/adult when that will happen, so do not assume that all of the many, many vaccines out there and being developed are benign and be selective and follow the Spirit in what you choose for yourself and your children.

Best wishes! Seriously...

Your friend

.

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Yep, as I said earlier, the opinion-holders never budge an inch in such discussions. But check the thread stats - 210 views from folks like me. This thread holds (what I assume is) the best of both sides of the debate - and folks are forming opinions.

Moe - life is easier when you think of it not as arguing with lds2, but as making an argument for the hundreds of people who come here and read what you have to say.

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I found the discussion interesting and informative. Ty both for your contributions.

Autism is a nasty problem for sure. I have a niece who is very autistic. No one knows why she has it. If we were to know or find a cure it would be wonderful. I do not particularly trust big businesses to have our best interests at heart but then again whoever comes up with some solutions, both to preventing and curing autism, will be raking in the dough and that is an incentive even the 'evil empire' will not resist. :) In this case I think 'following the money' will actually help find a cure and/or prevention.

We can always hope anyway.

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In this case I think 'following the money' will actually help find a cure and/or prevention.

We can always hope anyway.

There is also the attitude that what we call "autism" is, in many cases, simply a normal (and not unhealthy) variation of human personality. Looking for a "cure" for such personality traits is, in this view, similar to observing how rowdy and restless seven-year-old boys are in first grade and then searching for a "cure" for maleness, instead of adapting the educational system for their benefit.

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There is also the attitude that what we call "autism" is, in many cases, simply a normal (and not unhealthy) variation of human personality. Looking for a "cure" for such personality traits is, in this view, similar to observing how rowdy and restless seven-year-old boys are in first grade and then searching for a "cure" for maleness, instead of adapting the educational system for their benefit.

I would agree with that and know of at least one case very similar to what you state. However in the case of my niece she is severely autistic. This is the kind of case we pray for cures or at least improvements and pray that we find a way to prevent it from ever striking another child. When she was tiny she was the cutest little thing. Bouncy blond curls and just as sweet as could be. Then we noticed she did not 'see' things in her way but her eyesight was fine. She did not 'hear' people but her hearing was fine. Gradually, or so it seemed at the time, actually it was quite fast in retrospect, she just stopped living in this world in many ways.

It is very easy to see why parents look desperately for solutions to help their autistic children, sometimes in not so useful ways but it is SOMETHING they can cling to so they don't feel so helpless.

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Having personally found out how volatile a topic this is, I've learned to mostly keep my opinion to myself.

There's something about this topic and the invariable debate that follows... responses are very... uncompromising and intolerant of the other's view.

Having heard Anne's statements and having read many an article for and against, I'll say this.

I don't know.

Those of us who are Latter-day Saints know that the Holy Ghost testifies of truth. I hear many individuals testify on one side or the other of this topic citing education, research, etc. etc. but not one ever citing the Spirit of God.

Why is that?

I know why I do not testify in this manner and it is because I have not received such a witness either way. If I did, I would share it with you. If another did, their witness would hold more weight with me than any expert or study someone might cite.

Why doesn't anyone else testify?

Has anyone here received a witness either way? Since we don't want contention, is there no better way to achieve unity of heart?

Please, before we dispute further on this subject, couldn't we all take this issue to the Lord for an answer one way or the other and then bring that back instead?

I will and until I receive an answer, should anyone in the future ask my thoughts, I'll honestly declare, "I don't know".

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Utah has nation's highest autism rate, CDC report says

I'm sure the Mormon Church has something to do with this . . .

Putting aside the snark, the Church has very little to do with this.

"The national increase — a 78 percent boost from 2002 to 2008 — can be partly attributed to how children are being identified and served, researchers acknowledged, although how much that is affecting the surge is unclear."

Simply put, we starting to diagnose kids with mild autism spectrum disorders so that the families can gain access to programs offering additional support. That isn't necessarily bad or wrong, but it's crucial to understand that we are becoming more liberal with the diagnosis.

The other contributor is that Utah has better healthcare access than does most of the country, primarily because Utah is better insured. I've not seen a study to back this up, but my hunch is that kids diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders are disproportionately white, affluent, and insured.

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Putting aside the snark, the Church has very little to do with this.

"The national increase — a 78 percent boost from 2002 to 2008 — can be partly attributed to how children are being identified and served, researchers acknowledged, although how much that is affecting the surge is unclear."

Simply put, we starting to diagnose kids with mild autism spectrum disorders so that the families can gain access to programs offering additional support. That isn't necessarily bad or wrong, but it's crucial to understand that we are becoming more liberal with the diagnosis.

The other contributor is that Utah has better healthcare access than does most of the country, primarily because Utah is better insured. I've not seen a study to back this up, but my hunch is that kids diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders are disproportionately white, affluent, and insured.

No snark intended, MOE (well, maybe a playful little dig at the anti-Mormons who troll around the Trib's comment boards . . .)

I would note that while the article notes diagnosis as an issue in the national surge, it specifically debunks it as a factor in the local surge. I'll punt to you on any problems with the statistical analysis. ;)

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In the United States, the state of Utah ranked almost dead last in insuring its child population. The state was ranked fiftieth and only did better than Nevada. Nevada has insured only fifty five percent of their children whereas Utah has insured more than sixty six percent.

Many Utah children not insured | Insurance News

Among the Utahns I know most will do almost anything to prevent their child from getting a label as they believe labels handicap children. Many more parents are in denial I think than WANT labels for their children in order to get services. That is true at least among most parents of the most severely affected children in my last ward and in my current ward. The thing that amazes me is that this is true even for children that are obviously severe and not speaking at 3 and 4 years of age. There is a big deal in faith and miracles too that ties in there with many LDS families...

,

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"Data from the Developmental Disability Services registry in California demonstrates a 12-fold increase in the number of children receiving services for autism over the past 20 years, with a continuing rise recently...Together these factors (diagnostic substitution, better detection among the higher functioning) explain only a part of the linear increase observed in the California registry. In the absence of other explanations they and others suggest that a real increase is quite likely.2, 3, 4"

National Institude of Mental Health

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Having personally found out how volatile a topic this is, I've learned to mostly keep my opinion to myself.

There's something about this topic and the invariable debate that follows... responses are very... uncompromising and intolerant of the other's view.

Having heard Anne's statements and having read many an article for and against, I'll say this.

I don't know.

Those of us who are Latter-day Saints know that the Holy Ghost testifies of truth. I hear many individuals testify on one side or the other of this topic citing education, research, etc. etc. but not one ever citing the Spirit of God.

Why is that?

I know why I do not testify in this manner and it is because I have not received such a witness either way. If I did, I would share it with you. If another did, their witness would hold more weight with me than any expert or study someone might cite.

Why doesn't anyone else testify?

Has anyone here received a witness either way? Since we don't want contention, is there no better way to achieve unity of heart?

Please, before we dispute further on this subject, couldn't we all take this issue to the Lord for an answer one way or the other and then bring that back instead?

I will and until I receive an answer, should anyone in the future ask my thoughts, I'll honestly declare, "I don't know".

my wife had a strong gut feeling when she went to take my son who was 1yrs for his vaccinations she was overcome with something powerful she couldn't quite nail it other than it made her feel uncomfortable my son got his vaccines for melinchogial he suffered a instant reaction blistered and fever for next 4days quite severe then suffered extreme Ezcesma for the next 4yrs , Apparently he was allegic too pork which was in the shot . since then my wife and I decided not too vaccinate the rest of are kids , she believes too this day that she didn't follow those strong feelings promtings she regards as the Holy Ghost and are son who's 8 has had serious health issues since then .

However the rest of the kids the other 3 who haven't been vaccinated don'tseem to suffer from any major issues other than allegies but my oldest daughter who's 12 was vaccinated

up too 4yrs old didn't seem too have any health issues

I suppose Parents must make a informed choice , but my wife still believes that she disregarded those promtings of the holy ghost makes her sad today knowing what are oldest son has been through we keep those feelings amongst ourselves in the family and this is the first itme I have ever mentioned this in the open or too anyone else:)

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Study reveals altered digestive genes in children with autism and gastrointestinal disturbances Published on September 17, 2011 at 2:22 AM

"These changes may also affect the mix of bacteria present in the digestive tract...Researchers at the Center for Infection and Immunity (CII) at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health and at the Harvard Medical School report that children with autism and gastrointestinal disturbances have altered expression of genes involved in digestion. These variations may contribute to changes in the types of bacteria in their intestines. (Full study findings are reported online in the journal PLoS ONE.)

Study reveals altered digestive genes in children with autism and gastrointestinal disturbances

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Good on people who do their own research and don't just put blind faith in medicine or their doctor's word. Ifind it very hard to trust people who say- Just do it, you don't need to understand why...or You are (fill in blank with degotary title), you have to do this. We we have discernment and free agency, make good use of it.

Something kind of sounds wrong when choice is taken away.

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Obesity is "modestly" linked to Autism...I've known a lot of mother's of ASD children and sat in a lot of waiting rooms for speech and health clinics that specialize in ASD and one thing that I have not seen is a preponderance of heavy women. So this one is odd...

By KATIE MOISSE (@katiemoisse)

Autism Linked to Maternal Obesity - Yahoo! April 9, 2012

The study of more than 1,000 children in California found the risk of autism and other developmental delays was 60 percent higher among those born to mothers who were obese, hypertensive or diabetic..."Our findings raise concerns that these maternal conditions may be associated with neurodevelopmental problems in children and therefore could have serious public health implications."

"It's hard to say if they're linked," said study author Irva Hertz-Picciotto, professor of public health sciences at the University of California at Davis. "It might be there's some environmental factor that contributes both to the obesity epidemic and to the rise in autism cases. Or it could be the increase in obesity is, in fact, contributing to the increase in autism. But it's certainly not going to account for all of it."

Hertz-Picciotto and colleagues have also linked autism to poor maternal nutrition, antidepressant use and closely spaced pregnancies..."This study doesn't tell you anything about the origin of autism. What it does tell you are things associated with autism," said Dr. Susan Hyman, associate professor of pediatrics at the University of Rochester Medical Center.

...While maternal obesity is linked to a modest increase in autism risk, Hyman said it can have other health consequences in mother and child. Previous studies have linked maternal obesity to birth defects, including spina bifida as well as heart and limb deformities. ..."I think we're just beginning to unravel some of the mysteries of autism spectrum disorders. And I don't think we're going to find just one answer because it's not just one disease," Brown said...

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..Other researchers were quick to point out that the study merely reported an association; it did not prove that obesity or diabetes contributed to autism. "There's a temptation to say, 'Gee, we've got increased incidence of obesity and increased incidence of autism — there must be a strong connection between the two,' " said Andrew Adesman, chief of developmental and behavioral pediatrics at Steven and Alexandra Cohen Children's Medical Center of New York, who was not involved in the study. "We really need to be careful of reading into it." Irva Hertz-Picciotto, an environmental epidemiologist at UC Davis and senior author of the paper, agreed that it would be "premature" to say that obesity in mothers caused autism in children.

Study finds link between autism and obesity during pregnancy - latimes.com

It would be very interesting to see if there were a link between the Utah mothers and their children between metabolic disorders and autism. One type of autism they believe is metabolic in nature...also, some children's autism improves when they are on special diets, others when they have high fevers, and still others when they are on antibiotics, etc.

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..Other researchers were quick to point out that the study merely reported an association; it did not prove that obesity or diabetes contributed to autism

Which is the same criticism you can apply to every study cited in this thread. (which was kind of my unstated point)

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Which is the same criticism you can apply to every study cited in this thread. (which was kind of my unstated point)

Certainly, not every study as not all studies I am posting are related to a statistical relationship between autism and (fill in the blank). But there are a lot of such articles out there right now. This is common right after the increased numbers data comes out from the CDC or other sources. Soooo....here's another recent one...

Spontaneous Gene Glitches Linked to Autism Risk with Older Dads

Although Daly and colleagues found evidence for only a modest role of the chance mutations in autism, those pinpointed were biologically related to each other and to genes previously implicated in autism.

The Eichler team turned up clues to how environmental factors might influence genetics. The high turnover in a male’s sperm cells across the lifespan increases the chance for errors to occur in the genetic translation process. These can be passed-on to the offspring’s DNA, even though they are not present in the father’s DNA. This risk may worsen with aging. The researchers discovered a four-fold marked paternal bias in the origins of 51 spontaneous mutations in coding areas of genes that was positively correlated with increasing age of the father. So such spontaneous mutations could account for findings of an earlier study that found fathers of boys with autism were six times – and of girls 17 times – more likely to be in their 40’s than their 20’s.

NIMH · Spontaneous Gene Glitches Linked to Autism Risk with Older Dads

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Balance Tips toward Environment as Heritability Ebbs in Autism?

Non-inherited Genetic Factors Also in the Mix

The largest and most rigorous twin study of its kind to date has found that shared environment influences susceptibility to autism more than previously thought...The study, supported by the National Institutes of Health, found that shared environmental factors — experiences and exposures common to both twin individuals — accounted for 55 percent of strict autism and 58 percent of more broadly defined autism spectrum disorders (ASD). Genetic heritability accounted for 37 percent of autism and 38 percent of ASD. Random environmental factors not shared among twins play a much smaller role.

Earlier twin studies had estimated the genetic heritability of autism to be as high as 90 percent, due to much lower estimates of concordance — both members of a twin pair having the disorder — in fraternal twins. The new study found such concordance to be four to five times higher.

"High fraternal twin concordance relative to identical twin concordance underscores the importance of both the environment and moderate genetic heritability in predisposing for autism," explained Joachim Hallmayer, M.D., of Stanford University, Palo Alto, Calif. a grantee of the NIH's National Institute of Mental Health. "Both types of twin pairs are more often concordant than what would be expected from the frequency of autism in the general population. However, the high concordance among individuals who share only half their genes relative to those who share all of their genes implies a bigger role for shared environmental factors."

NIMH · Balance Tips toward Environment as Heritability Ebbs in Autism?

Edited by lds2
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Which is the same criticism you can apply to every study cited in this thread. (which was kind of my unstated point)

The conclusion is obvious. More obese women must vaccinate their kids.

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I see this entirely as a psychological issue.

I don't wish to give too much information about myself or what I do but I'm VERY familiar with autism. The truth is that there is no proof about a link between mercury and autism.

I see it as a psychological issue because people (specially parents of children with autism or loved ones) need answers for the challenges that they go through every single day, the "why me?" the "why my kid was robbed of so many life opportunities?". People need something that can give them hope, something they can understand, something where they can feel progress is being made. Not knowing is for them the greatest fear and the worst nightmare.

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