I wish I had never married

[Dravin]

You can't be a good dad if you don't know how to be a good husband first and foremost. They go hand in hand. That's why God sanctifies marriage as the way by which to have children.

That brings to mind a quote from John Wooden:

The best thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother.

[NeuroTypical]

When couples stay married “for the kids,” the kids probably sense something is wrong.

I grew up in one of those homes. They stuck it out and parted at death. I'm grateful they didn't tilt the odds against me by splitting up. Kids in divorced situations are at higher risk of trouble with the law, teen pregnancy, prison time, living under the poverty level, and getting divorced themselves. Having grown up through their unhappy lives, I find my dad's honoring his marriage vows as having a big impact in my ability to follow mine.

Another little tidbit - divorcing doesn't end a relationship. Divorcing just changes a relationship. If you both are reasonably healthy and sane, and have a mutual interest in raising the kids, then you'll both still be interacting with each other for a long, long time. Except things will be more complicated, more expensive, and your kids will have more grief and anxiety and difficulties to deal with.

Anyone abuse anyone? Anyone an alcoholic or an adulterer? Those are sometimes reasons to ditch someone and protect the kids. A grown man stomping his foot and saying "I don't wanna", well, you are role modeling for them no matter what you decide. Choose carefully.

[Bini]

OP, I agree that staying in a marriage for the sake of the children is harmful IF the relationship between their parents is volatile. In your case (from what I understand in your post), although you are unhappy in your marriage, the relationship between you and your wife is not abusive in any shape or form. And for that reason, I don't believe there is any justification for opting (or even entertaining the idea) for divorce. "Happiness", "joy", "good vibes", "the warm fuzzies" - whatever you want to call it - comes with commitment AND patience. Do you love your wife? If not - you can LEARN to love her. Do you know HOW to love your wife? Showing her through actions, etc? If not - you can LEARN to. There are so many resources out there that can be utilized. Give them a try ( at least) before throwing in the towel.

[annewandering]

Are you faithful to your wife? Do you have your eye on someone you would rather be married to? if so then the problem is more to do with excuses to justify than the marriage itself.

[guast]

The ceremony was actually great and so was the honeymoon. I was happy. But it didn’t last long. I regularly think we shouldn’t have been married. Here we are 11 years and 4 kids later. I wish we hadn’t married.

Sorry if I missed something but why do you regret your marriage. What I hear is that it sounds like both of you had some concerns or reservations about getting married (not incredibly unusual), got married, which was great, and then (and including?) 11 years later you're not happy. Eleven years is a LONG time... what exactly happened between "great" and "unhappy" to get you from point A to point B?

A lot of advice here but I think it's hard for people to give you specific advice when you haven't explained (unless I missed it reading through this) what exactly why you are unhappy. I'm going jump to the conclusion that your unhappiness in marriage has very little to do with having some reservations about getting married a decade earlier (unless those reservations are rooted in a continuing or still-existing problem that you haven't shared).

So... what is it specifically that you're not happy about with your marriage now?

Edited March 29, 2012 by guast

[guast]

Happiness and joy aren't the same thing. Happiness is more about satisfying what you want in the here and now. Joy takes work and sacrifice. Happiness is fleeting. Joy is deeper and lasting.

I like this - very well said.

And I would like to believe joy means having what we want in the depths of our spirit, not simply having what we are supposed to want. I don't think anyone is told to suck it up and pretend to have joy.

[Helen Mar Kimball]

Getting married makes your car insurance go down.

You mean people get married for reasons other than to lower their car insurance?

Wait, what?

[JudoMinja]

I have found, time and time again, that people tend to go into marriage expecting a fairy tale. Then something happens that shatters that fairy tale and we make one of three decisions-

1. Run away and continue looking for the fairy tale, or

2. Try to force your current situation to fit the fairy tale, or

3. Accept reality and work on making the best of life with what you have.

When we are in our late-teens/early-twenties, most don't have enough experience with the world to understand how things really work. Yet this is the time that we are encouraged to marry. We are young and naiive and indoctrinated with ideas of soul-mates and perfect happy marriages that require little to no work. We are taught through the media and sometimes well-meaning but misdirected parents that love is a feeling that never fades and will make it easy to be with our "true love".

Let me extend on the scripture you referenced:

"For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God...

Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other...

And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.

And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.

And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.

But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy." (2 Nephi 2: 11-12, 16 & 19-25) emphasis added

You can see, when you take the whole scripture in context, that joy is not something that comes to us because we are entitled to it. Neither is joy truly lost when we make mistakes. The ability to experience joy and happiness is there because we are placed in a state of opposition and given the opportunity to choose joy. And we know from further reading in the scriptures that the only path to joy is through repentance and adhering to our Father's Plan of Happiness.

Part of that Plan of Happiness includes making and keeping covenants, yes- even when it is hard to do so. You are unhappy in your marriage because you do not understand what it truly means to be happy and have joy. You are chasing a fairy tale. There is no fairy tale in this life. There is pain, suffering, misery and struggle. Such hardships are an equal part of the plan and give us an opportunity to learn, grow, and choose the higher path of righteousness, consistency, love, compassion, humility, and strength. You will find joy as you hold true to your marriage and draw nearer unto Him. You will not find joy in giving up and chasing fairy tales.

[Timpman]

I have been FOOLISH. The mind has a way of filtering out good memories and others' good qualities. It sometimes focuses in on the negatives. I have been succumbing to cognitive distortions and, frankly, the whisperings of devils.

I spent time with my wife last night and had a merciful revelation. I remembered the good times and her good qualities. Our marriage is good and we can make it better.

There are many wise people here. Thanks for your comments.

There is no other woman, btw.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Timpman

[NeuroTypical]

I have found, time and time again, that people tend to go into marriage expecting a fairy tale. Then something happens that shatters that fairy tale

Thanks for reminding me why I so dearly love Shrek 2 and 3. They were required viewing in our house for a long time.

[applepansy]

Loudmouth_Mormon, maybe getting a divorce is better than showing our kids what a crappy marriage is.

Maybe learning to love their mother is a better option!

[applepansy]

I have been FOOLISH. The mind has a way of filtering out good memories and others' good qualities. It sometimes focuses in on the negatives. I have been succumbing to cognitive distortions and, frankly, the whisperings of devils.

I spent time with my wife last night and had a merciful revelation. I remembered the good times and her good qualities. Our marriage is good and we can make it better.

There are many wise people here. Thanks for your comments.

There is no other woman, btw.

I'm glad you listened. You got some very very good advice here.

You will never find joy by destroying a marriage. I'm glad you spent the time you needed with your wife and remembered the good times and her good qualities.

Now... fill in that gap in your feelings that let Satan in. Because if you don't he'll do it again. To fill it in requires being unselfish in all things relating to your wife, marriage and family.

True happiness and joy comes when we serve those we love.

Best wishes!

[YaYaYaYana]

- I'm sorry this ended up so long

-well here's my 2 cents

-If I have one thing to say is this ( The time to have fixed this was 11 years ago!! When your wife said she wanted to call the whole thing off/ you should have not been a coward but stood up told her that you were thinking about not having the wedding... Let her keep the ring as a way to pay off at least some of the expenses... explain to her parents that you were sorry for the trouble and are letting her keep there ring, and that's all you can do and can't cover the rest.. I'm assuming her parents are working people so they would have been able to pay there rest anyways)-

2. The choices you make limit the choices you can make in your future- This goes for everything from choosing you major in school that determines your job to The person you marry, which determines you marriage life! - I would say you could have quickly gotten a divorce after a year or two while you haven't had any kids yet! But now that 11 years have gone by and you've got 4 ~ Well I'd say you'd better suck it up and do what's best for those kids... " Kids are not toys or inanimate objects," They are human beings.. with hopes desires needs and wants" since you helped bring them into this world you must make sure that you take care of them until they're all grown. God has placed them into your life and it is your responsibility now to take care of them with your wife.

- also think your your wife..! She is going to be probably soon a 30 year old woman with 4 kids. If you leave her. Life is going to be tough for her, probably NOBODY will want her now that her youth is going away and also that she is now a mother.. Not many man out there would want to support 4 kids or live with four kids that are not his own... Men her age are probably looking for woman 4-10 years younger.

To leave her now would be a terrible thing! ( it is on you part selfish to have waste her most youthful years of beauty and than to leave her)

-Another thing is that maybe if you have made the choice 11 years ago not to marry her, your life could have been better, maybe those feeling you---have about not marrying her was that you could have met a person that you could have been happier with, and if haven't been such a coward you might have had a different life and a different wife! ( But unfortunately 11 years later is not the best time to break up a marriage and family! Even though this is not your dream marriage an`ideal solution would be to try and make this thing work) I mean if you have made it 11 years and four kids it can't be completely horrible, if it was you wouldn't have been able to make it this far. ( Now a good thing would be to look at those Indian couples with arranged marriages that make things to work out because of obligations to society an d their family) You should make it work as an obligation towards God! "IT'S TOTALLY SELFISH TO SAY WELL, KIDS WILL GROW UP ANYWAYS." "WHAT'S THE POINT OF STICKING IT OUT FOR THE KIDS" It's true that they will grow up and go their own ways and find their own companions... but it is your responsibility as a man and a parent to provide and care for them and give them a loving comfortable living situation Right NOW while they are in their childhood!

- I don't think that at this point getting a divorce and starting over would be the best!

Look at this way.. sure you could meet a fun woman that you feel is more suited to meet you needs / wants and personalty someone that you might be able to have a bit more fun with for a couple of years... but what if she decided that she also wants to have a few children with you? Will you be willing to provide your own 4 children the best that they deserve and the new children as well? I'm thinking that this might be a worse and far more financially and emotionally draining more than --than taking the responsibility for the family that which have already started. Do you think you can just get remarried or get a divorce and be free? Nope it just doesn't work like that when you are so far into a marriage already.....what about your first 4 children, they will feel lonely and abandoned if your leave your family and have other ones with another wife... They will probably ask why are they're step-brothers and sisters living with u but they can't , are they good enough???~ it's just such a horrible thing to do!! to a child let alone 4! and your wife, she will have a huge burden to carry a being partly a single mother! ( at this point to leave your marriage is absolutely selfish and unacceptable!) You shouldn't go to your bishop asking weather or not you should stay or leave, but how to make your marriage a happier one and what to do / what scriptures to read to strengthen your marriage ... and pray to God so that he can turn your marriage into a great one and help you enjoy and fully live out the decision that you've already made.

*** Last thing I wanna add is that I'm guessing that you Guys were in your twenty's early twenty's as most Mormon couples are when they get married.

I'm also assuming that you're 27-30 now. I've been Mormon myself since the age of 10 and 3 years ago at age (20) I started vising a friends Asian Christian Church after my Church services were done...And what I've come to realize is that it's horrible at how early we Mormon folk get married at.. A lot of my friends at Byu are 21-23 year old girls and already married!! I think this is just Horrible... In most Asian countries Japan/ China ect as I learned from my friend... women get married from age 25 -30 and men from age 30-35!! Most of the Women in my friends the Church at age 28-30 usually have one or two young toddlers. No one is divorced and are very family oriented. I feel that age has a huge factor.....

----The reason that you might be feeling so unfulfilled is due to having so many parenting responsibilities and duties that you should only be starting to have

right now! At age 27-30 you should be parenting one child or two not 4 ... because children are also a decision you can't undo, marriage is best left for more mature adults... This gives you...enough time to enjoy and live a little before settling down..... So the reason you might feel that you don't wanna be married might be also that subconsciously you feel that you did not accomplish enough in your own life before becoming a parent.. or Husband.. and while you can't undo that.. you may want to take a trip with friends or a small holiday to help refresh your self...

- Best of Luck to you hope everything works out fine for your family and I pray that God will give you the courage to man up and take on your responsibilities and carry them out to the end as being a good father to your 4 kids and a good husband to your wife!!

- Don't you dare try to get a divorce for any of your selfish reasons... It's only an option if your living with horrible abuse or your spouse is cheating on you and can't stop..( it should be used as a last resource as a solution to end something horrible)

Edited March 30, 2012 by YaYaYaYana

[SoCal_Counselor]

Timpman,

I just finished reading through this thread and have a couple of thoughts:

• First of all, props to you for coming here. You seem to want your marriage to work, despite not feeling like your heart is into it, that is great!
• Secondly, Soulmates are formed, not found. Committment is more important in marriages than being in love. You are struggling in your marriage right now (and may have been struggling for a while). This committment can get you through these times.
• Did you know that most married couples experience thoughts like these at one point or another in their marriage. I have been married for 9 years, and have had these thought from time to time. I work at quickly pushing these thoughts out, because they are the enemy.

Now a few items of advice:

• Serve her. Do you know what makes her happy? Do it, whether or not she returns those favors. Do it because you are trying to show her (and yourself) that you love her. Sometimes you have to do the behaviors first, before the feelings come.
• Be Patient. If you are working on your marriage, you will eventually become stronger than these feelings.
• Give yourself to her, and receive her unto you. I'm sure you have heard these things before. This applies to giving and receiving emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically, sexually, etc.
• Make love to her often. When I meet with couples who are struggling in their marriages, they will often say that they still feel close when making love. That is the way it is supposed to feel. God designed our bodies for those feelings to come. Those feelings of closeness that you have when making love can translate into other aspects of your relationship.
• Fast and be prayerful. You have made a covenant. Your wife has made a covenant. God is also part of that covenant. Turn to him "with full purpose of heart." He loves you and wants you to be happy. As you turn to him, he will guide you in the direction you should go.

[Spartan117]

There are many wise people here.

And as you can see, flattery gets you everywhere around here.

[zuko725]

What I still don't understand is WHY you regret marrying her.

You obviously felt something for her at one time.. otherwise you would never have asked her to marry you in the first place (and in your case, you did so twice). You were never "forced" to marry her.. you may have felt obligated or pressured.. but you still had a choice and you still chose to. So there had to have been SOMETHING there that made you want to marry her in the first place.

You haven't given much information as to what your relationship is like. From what I can see.. you just don't seem to like her much. I just gotta ask.. why??

If she treats you with respects, raises your children well, doesn't abuse alcohol, drugs (etc), doesn't cheat on you, and is overall a good human being and a good wife.. then why would you regret your marriage? That's a lot more than a lot of couples could even hope to find in a spouse.

Again, I have no idea what your wife is like or what your relationship is like.. but if there's no major issue or problem than I don't see why you aren't happy.

The grass isn't greener on the other side... it's greener on the side you water.

[Timpman]

-If I have one thing to say is this ( The time to have fixed this was 11 years ago!! When your wife said she wanted to call the whole thing off/ you should have not been a coward but stood up told her that you were thinking about not having the wedding...

Way too late for that. It's no good bringing that up. It was a crazy time. I was barely off my mission and was depressed and borderline suicidal.

-Another thing is that maybe if you have made the choice 11 years ago not to marry her, your life could have been better, maybe those feeling you---have about not marrying her was that you could have met a person that you could have been happier with, and if haven't been such a coward you might have had a different life and a different wife!

I think I would have become an alcoholic and killed myself if we had not been married. I had forgotten this stuff a couple days ago. She was a angel to me.

In most Asian countries Japan/ China ect as I learned from my friend... women get married from age 25 -30 and men from age 30-35!! Most of the Women in my friends the Church at age 28-30 usually have one or two young toddlers.

Well, that's why so many women have fertility issues. Follow the Lord, not the world.

[Timpman]

You haven't given much information as to what your relationship is like. From what I can see.. you just don't seem to like her much. I just gotta ask.. why??

No point in bringing up the negatives now. Honestly, the reasons were vain or easily overcome anyway. My mind was blowing them out of proportion and discounting her positive qualities. And devils were whispering in my ear.... That's how Satan gets us sometimes.

I do remember being crazy in love with her during the engagement. It was awesome.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Timpman

[Wingnut]

In most Asian countries Japan/ China ect as I learned from my friend... women get married from age 25 -30 and men from age 30-35!! Most of the Women in my friends the Church at age 28-30 usually have one or two young toddlers.

Well, that's why so many women have fertility issues. Follow the Lord, not the world.

Wait, WHAT??

[Timpman]

Age 25-30 isn't really late in life. Sorry. But those who wait for age 35, then wait until they are approaching 40 to have children have a lot harder time conceiving. That's all I'm saying. And I meant that we shouldn't follow the trends of the world. Anyway, let's forget the marriage-age thing here. It really has to do with maturity levels.

[MarginOfError]

Age 25-30 isn't really late in life. Sorry. But those who wait for age 35, then wait until they are approaching 40 to have children have a lot harder time conceiving. That's all I'm saying. And I meant that we shouldn't follow the trends of the world. Anyway, let's forget the marriage-age thing here. It really has to do with maturity levels.

I'd caution against confusing advanced maternal age with infertility. Although some women of advanced maternal age (generally considered age 35 or older) may have similar emotional responses to inability to conceive/implant/carry, the causes are extremely different.

In cases of true infertility, we can successfully use artificial means of reproduction about 50 percent of the time. In the case of advanced maternal age, it's more like 10% of the time...maybe.

In any case, waiting until the mid to late 30's before trying to have children is not a cause of infertility. It's just the natural aging process.

[Timpman]

I'm not a doctor or any kind of pro, but:

"Every woman's fertility declines with age. Getting older means it will take longer to conceive and you may need help from a fertility doctor (Reproductive Endocrinology & Infertility Specialist). A woman's fertility begins to decline gradually beginning in her late 20's and continues this decline until age 34. At age 35 fertility begins to drop more rapidly. As a general rule, women have their best chance of getting pregnant before age 35." Fertility decreases with Age

So if ladies want to have problems and deal with fertility doctors, go ahead and postpone marriage and pregnancy.

[Guest]

Fertility treatments are cost prohibitive for a lot of people. Those who wait til late-30's to start a family often have problems, and may or may not be able to afford treatments. If they can, their families aren't going to be very big (which is only an issue if they wanted a big family). I guess I don't understand the argument that age isn't a factor in fertility. It certainly is.

[Just_A_Guy]

I think MOE's point was primarily a semantic one: age-induced infertility is (presumably) a relatively natural process and doesn't necessarily entail the same physical and emotional complications as (for lack of a better term) "true infertility".

Timpman, I moonlight in divorce law and had a post ready to go about how divorce affects children; before I saw that you've changed your position (for which I congratulate you). I'll spare you the diatribe and simply state that Loudmouth_Mormon speaks wisdom.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[skippy740]

Because the purpose of the thread has been fulfilled, I will close it so we don't veer of onto a tangent.

Thank you all for your participation!