So many religions--why is yours right?

[JeepMoab]

I believe that God covenants with man (both individually and collectively). I believe these covenants are required for various rewards both on Earth and in the next life. I believe man must uphold his part of that covenant through righteous living (obedience to the covenant) as well as through repentance since we are not perfect. God will perfectly uphold his end. I also believe that there is an outward ordinance that creates the covenant. Baptism is an obvious example. I believe that the ordinance must be performed and officiated by one who was given authority by God through priesthood. I believe that God chooses prophets to charge the distribution of that authority to others and must also be ordained of God. I believe that only one church holds these keys on Earth today.

The rest, the teachings, the beliefs and doctrines, the "fruits" are all side effects or rather causal effects of having that priesthood. The beliefs may not be perfect because man is not perfect, but they should have substance and truth behind them. But they do not define God's church. in other words, you cannot prove it through such means. Same for the Bible. I believe the Bible to be the fruits of God's plan for His people, but you cannot prove your own truth strictly through the Bible. One can perfectly interpret the Bible and believe everything from God absolutely correctly, but without priesthood authority and God's covenant, you are not God's people. So, the Bible and interpretation of it end up secondary to finding the church which truly covenants with God (although the understanding of the Bible will be more complete and correct given the direct connection through prophets than historical interpretations - or simply put prophets trump tradition).

Well put. But, how do we know, for certain, that someone has 'authority' from God to officiate? We can't trust our feelings or spirits or men who say they are from God. So how do we know?

The Bible gives us tests to apply to spirits, angels and men. Those tests apply to the Bible and all other religions that say they are from God. And, IF God is all-knowing and all-powerful then what he says through his leaders always comes to pass and is always true since God never changes. Only men change. So if there are changes to God's words or anything else he does (prophecies) then you know that church is manmade. Truth never changes. What was true is still true or God is lying all the while forbidding us to lie. That would also make God a hypocrite to his own cause.

[prisonchaplain]

Okay, I though of a few examples in which prophets failed...

At least the last guy publicly repented of his sin in predicting the day.

Edited April 17, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[JeepMoab]

Okay, I though of a few examples in which prophets failed...

At least the last guy publicly repented of his sin in predicting the day.

Funny! Did you notice that they were all wrong (haha).The Bibe, even Jesus, said no one knows he day or the hour. So when people start saying Jesus is coming this day or that you know, beyond all feeling or reason that person, persons or church is false. God never fails in anything He says because He knows everything all the way to the end of the earth 'before' He created the first thing. That is also why i say a church that changes its doctrines, etc. is false because God knows everything so He, if it is Him talking and not some guy, never says what isn't true the first time. He'd be a liar and fraud if He did that- and not a God I would ever serve.

By the way, calling yourself or someone a prophet doesn't mean you/they are. 1 Jn. 4:1 clearly tells us a lot of false prophets are in the world. Jesus did too in Mt. So, how do we know the true prophets of God from the false ones? Easy- wtach what they 'prophesy'. If they have to change it, make excuses for it, deny they said it or- most impotant of all- if it doesn't come true 'in every minute detail' then you know without doubt or question that guy/guys/church is false.

[bytebear]

Well put. But, how do we know, for certain, that someone has 'authority' from God to officiate? We can't trust our feelings or spirits or men who say they are from God. So how do we know?

The Bible gives us tests to apply to spirits, angels and men. Those tests apply to the Bible and all other religions that say they are from God. And, IF God is all-knowing and all-powerful then what he says through his leaders always comes to pass and is always true since God never changes. Only men change. So if there are changes to God's words or anything else he does (prophecies) then you know that church is manmade. Truth never changes. What was true is still true or God is lying all the while forbidding us to lie. That would also make God a hypocrite to his own cause.

Yes, ultimately you have to trust your feelings, and believe that God is guiding you to the right decisions.

The Bible gives ample examples of this, particularly in the New Testament.

Acts 2 talks of the day of Pentacost.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

The reaction was not good, but a few felt the Holy Spirit.

37 ¶Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

They felt the spirit.

Now correlate that to this:

1Kings 19

11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:

12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

Notice that earthquakes and fires and even the speaking in tongues and signs and wonders of Pentacost did not convince people of the truth.

It was the still small voice, the spirit of the Lord whispering to our spirit the truth.

it wasn't prophecies, or logic that convinced people. People have their own logic, they have their own tradition and beliefs. Jesus fought against the religious leaders of the day who had all the logic and tradition in the world, but he confounded them. He was blasphemous, and heretical, but he had the truth. Prophecies and scripture can lead to the truth, but only the still small voice of the Holy Ghost will give you the answer to your question.

[prisonchaplain]

It's not the Bible vs. our gut. We need both. In all 3 of those photos the proponents of the false prophecies were either evangelical or fundamentalist Christians. They would have sworn to you that they were Bible-believers. The last group had an answer for the "not knowing the day or the hour" verse. Obviously it was wrong--but they used their Bibles.

At the same time, many give in to gut feelings without checking at all. I saw a youtube video of a lady who joined a particularly sect, receiving baptism, only to find out later that the group believed their founding pastor to be Christ. Her excuse. There were many immigrants in the church, and when they said Christ-followed by their pastor's name, she misunderstood that they were just saying "Praise Christ" in their home language. Obviously she had not dug too deep.

So we need our Bibles and the directing of the Holy Spirit. It's both/and, not this vs. that.

One time a couple of fellows came to me asking if I wanted to know about Jesus. I was a Christian, but they caught me at a time when I had a few hours to kill. So, I said yes. However, I immediately sensed some danger from these two. They proceeded to tell me a gospel I was very familiar with. We are sinners. This separates us from God. The only way to reach God is through Christ. They show a picture with a man, sin as a chasm, and God on the other side. The cross creates a bridge. It's typical evangelical stuff. Yet, I feel agitated in my spirit. So, I say, "All that's true. I believe it. I'm a born again Christian."

The one talking looks at me and points his finger right at my heart. He says:

THEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR GOD!!!

I sensed that they had within them a spirit of devourment. Just as Jesus warned Peter that Satan was like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

They proceeded to tell me that if I really loved God, and was willing to take up my cross and follow Jesus, I must come to their church each week. I later discovered they were creating havoc amongst the U.S. military community (this was during my time in Korea), and that converts were being asked to move into the founder's home, and turn their paychecks over to him. Families broke up. The little group fit a sociological definition of a cult.

The Bible helped keep me safe. The verse about Jesus and Peter, as well as John 14:6 (this group was trying to come between me and God, when only Jesus could do so). But, how did I know these verses and apply them to this situation. The Holy Spirit brought them to the forefront of my consciousness.

We need the Spirit and the Word.

[Apple_Acres]

I've always had a hard time with a question like this. I feel That my choice in faith is right, in the sense of that it is right for me, but might not be right for someone else.

Personally, I believe that the relationship with God is personal, and each person might have a different way of expressing it, depending on their own self, their culture, etc. One might identify as Christian, another Muslim, a third might say he has no major affiliation but simply 'believes.' I feel like I can't really say that one is necessarily more correct than another without opening a can of worms.

Furthermore, I think that God values the righteous regardless of a particular faith, or the lack thereof. (Which isn't to say that anyone here is saying/suggesting that, it's just my own thought)

I apologize if this is a poor answer or doesn't properly respond to the question...

[prisonchaplain]

Apple_Acres, you answer is your answer. It is your answer to the question. My response is that the God you seem to present is very open-minded, very inclusive, and very understanding. This God also fits well with what many people seem to accept these days.

My question is, is this tolerant God engaged in human affairs? Is He interested in my choices? Does greater tolerance from God indicate a kind of passiveness?

[CrimsonKairos]

I believe God reveals Himself to His children as best He can, according to their conditions, abilities, weaknesses and His Will which--let's admit--we don't quite fully understand (understatement of the year).

Do you remember the one characteristic Christ listed as the definition of a Christian (i.e. a disciple of Christ)? Paraphrase: others will know you follow me if you love each other as I have loved you.

In that sense, Christ-like love is the core. Ordinances, scriptures, everything else is commentary so to speak. And LDS believe that during the Millenial reign of Christ, there will be 1,000 years for doctrines and ordinances and missionary work to be completed in the spirit world for anyone not having that chance during mortality.

So PrisonChaplain, I guess my answer is anywhere that mankind teaches a belief in the value of humans, and that we ought to treat each other as Christ loved us (even if they've never heard of Christ), to me that has to be a teaching/culture inspired by God in some way. As to your specific point about Christianity vs. Judaism vs. Islam/etc, I think you have a good point. After his resurrection, Christ told the apostles to preach his gospel to all the nations, and we know that on the Day of Pentecost the Jewish Pilgrims from all over who were in Jerusalem, got to hear Christ preached in their own languages. I believe God wants us to be able to come to know Him and His works/will in the way (read: language) that makes most sense to us.

Demanding someone learn a foreign language (i.e. Arabic) before they can learn about God is, to me, overly prohibitive and not in line with the God I know and worship. Then again, there is the Islam of Mohammed, and the Islam that developed after his death. I think much of Islam's rules and schisms and cultural appendages are evidence of what happens when a prophet is taken from his people and no one with similar inspiration or authority is left to fill the void (I would say the same thing about Catholicism--Roman or East Orthodox--especially in light of the actions/teachings of the popes during the medieval period).

My own view, though, about Mohammed is that he was a Joseph-Smith-type-figure for the Middle East but the culture(s) of the time, and no one being fit to fill his mantle when he died, meant Islam was destined for a short gasp of breath before becoming just one more religion run by men and not by God. :) I know that'll rub some people the wrong way but it's just what I've concluded after studying and reading and pondering everything.

[Apple_Acres]

Apple_Acres, you answer is your answer. It is your answer to the question. My response is that the God you seem to present is very open-minded, very inclusive, and very understanding. This God also fits well with what many people seem to accept these days.

My question is, is this tolerant God engaged in human affairs? Is He interested in my choices? Does greater tolerance from God indicate a kind of passiveness?

Yes, I do believe he is engaged in human affairs. I also answer yes, he is interested in the choices of any and all individuals. I do not believe it indicates passiveness, rather, I believe that God understands human weakness, temptations, and that no man can always stand tall, because we all have many imperfections and all make mistakes.

[Tough Grits]

So far I offered a rather philosophical or rationale line of thinking. Others have suggested prayer, feeling the Spirit, judging the fruits of a religion, acting upon whatever faith one has...all good answers. On the other hand, how do we avoid being deceived by any of these approaches. Rational thinking has led people away from God. Many testify to feeling good spiritual vibes after speaking with psychics (or drugs...aka the 1960s). Throughout most of its history, the People's Temple was well respected for its good works and interracial makeup (the group ended up committing mass suicide in the late 70s).

One suggested the scriptures. Which ones? How do we get to the place of examining the right scriptues?

Hello PC! :)

I have only skimmed through the posts (starting with the OP) up to this point.

As I skimmed, I asked myself, Why this Church? Why is none other right for me?

I was an atheist. I grew up in Miami. I was exposed to quite a few religions. All of them repelled me for one reason or another. I don't mean that in an ugly way. I am just speaking true to how I felt at the time. In my youth I was repelled by the very notion of "organized religion".

However, there were certain things that I "knew", even as an atheist. I knew that my sister, who had been born with severe spina bifida and died at the age of ten, would be in a perfect form after death. I knew that her soul lived on, even though her body lay buried in Georgia. I knew that I had known certain people in my life before this life, although I didn't believe in reincarnation.

How could I know or believe all those things yet be an atheist? Thus, my frustration with labels. They never seem to fit me well.

Then I read the Gospel Principles manual in 1998. It made sense. What I read fit with what I would believe if I believed in religion. Also, something spoke to me on a deeper level than merely "making sense". I felt the truthfulness of the gospel. Did I feel it in my soul? My body? I think I felt the truth of what I read in that manual in my spirit and throughout every fiber of my being.

I don't live my religion to prove something to others. I don't live my religion to impress others. I don't live my religion to "fit in". I don't live my religion to compete with anybody.

Quite frankly, my religion is about me. It is about my relationship with God, my belief in God, and my love of God. As I increase in my love and knowledge of Heavenly Father, I can see where it radiates outward in my thoughts, my words, and my actions. The stronger my relationship is with Heavenly Father, the better able I am--and the more willing I am--to reach out to others and serve them, forgive them, and love them.

Without this gospel, I am not sure I could live. How could I return to a life without the companionship of the Holy Ghost? How could I return to a life without guidance from a true and living prophet? How could I return to a life without the sure knowledge that I am a daughter of God?

More importantly, how could I return to a life without the atonement of Christ working in my life to wash away my sins and bring me peace and happiness? Without this gospel, I lose the opportunity to live with Heavenly Father, thus losing the opportunity to live with my sister again, and the rest of those that I love dearly.

It is too late for me. I can't walk away, turn my back, or become neutral ever again. Not only would I be turning my back on all that the gospel has to offer, but I would be denying everything that I have felt and learned since first reading the Gospel Principles manual in 1998.

PC, I hope I was able to communicate why being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not only right for me, but it really is the only choice for me.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Tough Grits
typo

[prisonchaplain]

Today, in Bible Study, we were discussing the nuances between godliness, righteousness, and holiness. We said all of these come from God, and we would be uncomfortable self-describing ourselves as any of them. It would sound self-righteous, not Christ-righteous to do so. Finally, we stumbled upon the answer in 2nd Peter. Why do I do what I do (especially when someone asks)? Because I am at peace with God.

[norah63]

I have really enjoyed all the answers given on this thread.

So many times we don't really put down in words why we worship as we do.

Jesus Christ says He will build His church with us, we are lively stones, living letters.

May all the praise and glory be unto His name.

[SteveVH]

I've always had a hard time with a question like this. I feel That my choice in faith is right, in the sense of that it is right for me, but might not be right for someone else.

Apple Acres, have you ever heard the term "objective truth"? As Christians we believe in a truth that exists outside and apart from ourselves. This truth is God himself. Truth exists whether or not we know it or believe it, accept it or reject it. For example, even if a person really, really, really believes he can fly, when he jumps off of the 20 story building, the objective truth that gravity exists will present itself and he will go splat. In other words, truth does not originate and confine itself within the human mind. That is the direction of the New Age and similar movements. They believe all truth exists within themselves and their task is to simply unleash it.

The point is, there is no such thing as one truth for you and another for me. If that is the case then truth does not exist. Truth can never conflict with truth (that is an objective truth). (lol) So if what you believe is right for you is actually true, then it should be right for everyone. There is no such thing as one faith being right for one and another faith right for another if one is interested in their faith being based upon truth.

God bless.

Edited June 2, 2013 by StephenVH

[Guest Danar2amir]

I quickly conclude that Christianity is the most likely expression of the Creator's appeal to his creation

[Traveler]

Apple Acres, have you ever heard the term "objective truth"? As Christians we believe in a truth that exists outside and apart from ourselves. This truth is God himself. Truth exists whether or not we know it or believe it, accept it or reject it. For example, even if a person really, really, really believes he can fly, when he jumps off of the 20 story building, the objective truth that gravity exists will present itself and he will go splat. In other words, truth does not originate and confine itself within the human mind. That is the direction of the New Age and similar movements. They believe all truth exists within themselves and their task is to simply unleash it.

The point is, there is no such thing as one truth for you and another for me. If that is the case then truth does not exist. Truth can never conflict with truth (that is an objective truth). (lol) So if what you believe is right for you is actually true, then it should be right for everyone. There is no such thing as one faith being right for one and another faith right for another if one is interested in their faith being based upon truth.

God bless.

Just an observation - not intended as criticism but just an observation. Science seems to be to be better at overcoming divergent ideas and theories and converging on the outside "truth" than does religion. In essence a theologian that considers honestly other ideas is more likely to be labeled a heretic where as a scientist that honestly considers other ideas is more likely to be labeled an innovator.

I would point out that Paul suggested that we prove all things and hold fast to that which is true - seems to me to be better demonstrated in the scientific community than in the religious circles that believe Paul inspired.

The Traveler

[SteveVH]

Just an observation - not intended as criticism but just an observation. Science seems to be to be better at overcoming divergent ideas and theories and converging on the outside "truth" than does religion. In essence a theologian that considers honestly other ideas is more likely to be labeled a heretic where as a scientist that honestly considers other ideas is more likely to be labeled an innovator.

I would point out that Paul suggested that we prove all things and hold fast to that which is true - seems to me to be better demonstrated in the scientific community than in the religious circles that believe Paul inspired.

The Traveler

One very simple difference between scientific truth and divinely revealed truth. We still have much to learn about the world around us and we discover this truth by our own efforts. In such a case innovation is a great tool in this pursuit. Not so with divine truth. God has fully revealed himself in the Person of Jesus Christ, who is "the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word". (Hebrews 1:3)

We no longer need to search for truth that has been fully revealed.

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Hebrews 1:1-2)

Christ is the fulfillment of all prophecy, therefore we are no longer waiting or searching. What the prophets prophesied is realized in Jesus. We are now obligated to believe the truth revealed, apply it to our lives and teach others about this Truth who is Jesus Christ.

[Traveler]

One very simple difference between scientific truth and divinely revealed truth. We still have much to learn about the world around us and we discover this truth by our own efforts. In such a case innovation is a great tool in this pursuit. Not so with divine truth. God has fully revealed himself in the Person of Jesus Christ, who is "the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word". (Hebrews 1:3)

We no longer need to search for truth that has been fully revealed.

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Hebrews 1:1-2)

Christ is the fulfillment of all prophecy, therefore we are no longer waiting or searching. What the prophets prophesied is realized in Jesus. We are now obligated to believe the truth revealed, apply it to our lives and teach others about this Truth who is Jesus Christ.

I do not disagree with the point you are trying to make - I just think there is more to be considered. What I find interesting are the exchanges between Jesus and especially the Pharisees as recorded in the Gospel of John. What I find interesting is that as Jesus introduced ideas; the Pharisees found new - Jesus alluded to ancient scripture. In essence Jesus interpreted scripture surrounding certain doctrines that the Pharisees (according to their established traditions) thought as blasphemous heresies.

In essence, Jesus and the Pharisees belonged to the same religion and worshiped in the same buildings and holy places reading the exact same scriptures. Though there were many other religions that were known to be "false" Jesus never criticized any of them. For all the corruption the Samaritans were responsible for in scriptures and religious rights - interestingly Jesus used a despised Samaritan as the very example of what a Jew ought to be and the most pious of the Jews (a Levitt and a Priest) of an example of what a Jew ought not to be.

The Traveler

[SteveVH]

I do not disagree with the point you are trying to make - I just think there is more to be considered. What I find interesting are the exchanges between Jesus and especially the Pharisees as recorded in the Gospel of John. What I find interesting is that as Jesus introduced ideas; the Pharisees found new - Jesus alluded to ancient scripture. In essence Jesus interpreted scripture surrounding certain doctrines that the Pharisees (according to their established traditions) thought as blasphemous heresies.

In essence, Jesus and the Pharisees belonged to the same religion and worshiped in the same buildings and holy places reading the exact same scriptures. Though there were many other religions that were known to be "false" Jesus never criticized any of them. For all the corruption the Samaritans were responsible for in scriptures and religious rights - interestingly Jesus used a despised Samaritan as the very example of what a Jew ought to be and the most pious of the Jews (a Levitt and a Priest) of an example of what a Jew ought not to be.

The Traveler

Agreed. The Jews were, for the most part, stuck on the letter of the law. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law. It was not only wrong to commit adultery but to lust in one's heart (that is where the sin takes place). We should not forgive only seven times but seventy times seven times. Jesus revealed what the word of God truly meant; he is the Word of God. I would have loved to have been walking with the disciples on the road to Emmaus to listen to Jesus explain the Scriptures. That must have been some Bible study.

[Traveler]

Agreed. The Jews were, for the most part, stuck on the letter of the law. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law. It was not only wrong to commit adultery but to lust in one's heart (that is where the sin takes place). We should not forgive only seven times but seventy times seven times. Jesus revealed what the word of God truly meant; he is the Word of God. I would have loved to have been walking with the disciples on the road to Emmaus to listen to Jesus explain the Scriptures. That must have been some Bible study.

Then can we conclude; that if the church someone belongs to is not currently helping someone to improve how they are living both the letter and the spirit of the law - that there is something very wrong with that particular individual, the religion they are currently espousing - or both. And what-ever the case that currently their religion is not helping them to prepare to meet their G-d (aka - the 5 foolish virgins)?

The Traveler

[SteveVH]

Then can we conclude; that if the church someone belongs to is not currently helping someone to improve how they are living both the letter and the spirit of the law - that there is something very wrong with that particular individual, the religion they are currently espousing - or both. And what-ever the case that currently their religion is not helping them to prepare to meet their G-d (aka - the 5 foolish virgins)?

The Traveler

Thus the importance of holding fast to the faith handed down to us from the Apostles and not adding or subtracting from it. What the prophets had been prophesying and what the people had been waiting for was fulfilled completely in Jesus Christ. The Jews could not fully understand until Christ's coming. We have a saying that the Old Testament is revealed in the New, and New is hidden in the Old.

[Traveler]

Thus the importance of holding fast to the faith handed down to us from the Apostles and not adding or subtracting from it. What the prophets had been prophesying and what the people had been waiting for was fulfilled completely in Jesus Christ. The Jews could not fully understand until Christ's coming. We have a saying that the Old Testament is revealed in the New, and New is hidden in the Old.

Interesting thoughts but the most quoted texts in the New Testament (including the teachings of Christ in such things as the sermon on the mount) is actually from scripture that was part of the Jewish scripture at the time of Christ (aka Dead Sea Scriptures) but not currently scripture of the Old Testament currently in use.

This would indicate that what is left in scripture from what was handed down to us from the Apostles is not complete - agreed?

The Traveler

[StMonica]

Interesting thoughts but the most quoted texts in the New Testament (including the teachings of Christ in such things as the sermon on the mount) is actually from scripture that was part of the Jewish scripture at the time of Christ (aka Dead Sea Scriptures) but not currently scripture of the Old Testament currently in use.

This would indicate that what is left in scripture from what was handed down to us from the Apostles is not complete - agreed?

The Traveler

Jesus was quoting from the Septuagint.

As a Mormon don't you use the KJV version of the Bible? The Catholic version of the Bible has seven more books.

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't know that I'd go so far as to say "most" sources quoted in the NT were in fact extrabiblical; but I think some parallels have been established between some NT passages and some noncanonical works. For example, if memory serves, there are some pretty strong ties between some passages in Jude and some statements in the Book of Enoch--which was represented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but (as far as I know) is not part of the Apocrypha.

But I should probably defer to Traveler to flesh out his own argument.

[gatorjjp]

When you are talking to another out side the church trying to teach them and all you show them is words from the Book of Mormon sometimes I think it makes it harder for them to understand cause we were brought up there is only one book and that's the...KJV I just feel if people of our church could read and point to some of the new comers questions directly from the Bible it would help them to see better. Yes i do beleive in the Book of Mormon, but they never heard of it and have a hard time digesting a book written by someone else other than the bible. Seeing God when the Bible says no one has ever laid eyes on God. Not many times in my studies with the missionary's did they refer to the Bible. I found that to be rather odd and almost turned away just for that reason. For myself I have had enough experience with other religions that I knew more of the pieces of the puzzle fit together with what was being taught to me. For some they don't have that insight and only have been brought into GOD'S word through the KJV. I still feel like the Mormon's need to refere to the BIBLE MORE OFTEN than they do because that is what people know and I feel they would understand and not argue with you if you show them directly from the Bible. Trying to beleive a young boy saw Jesus and Jesus talked to him is hard on people who never heard that before then quoting from the Book of Mormons makes it harder for them. So personally I always refere to the bible as much as possible until that person can understand the book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. It's hard for them to see that so be gentle when dealing with people who have never heard of the book.

I know this if from a few pages back....

but i linger and browse here because of my current place in life.

I cam to know Christ in a time and place of utter despair and contrition. A time when i believed it would be better for me to be dead than to continue living the life i had until that time. I thought there was no hope and that i was doomed, by genes, by fate, or by whatever controlled the universe to live a life of destruction and selfishness. Somehow i knew that it was wrong and that i wanted to change but i couldn't/ did not have the ability to do that on my own. Thank God for Jesus. When i had the revelation that there was option for a second chance (later third fourth etc.) my heart melted and i fell in love. How could such a perfect God love such a horrible creature as me? And so my faith, like probably many others began.

Today, religion has defiled that faith. It was years of different doctrines that slowly whittled away that pure faith and love of our Savior. mine of Him. because of my own inability to walk out perfectly or understand completely one churches set of doctrines i thought maybe each might be the wrong church and so i would try another. doctrines of demons, baptism, etc etc all confused and finally led me to pull away from all churches.

i spent seven years not seeking God at all, with financial, business and family success until it all finally fell out from under me.

again i was at a place of utter despair and with no hope in sight. My van broke down while traveling across country in a city far away from my wife where i happened to have family that are LDS. i began to attend church with them and i was hungry for change. i heard Abba speak there and i felt God divinely intervened in my life. my wife later joined me, received lessons from the missionaries and was baptized. ( i was baptized at fourteen into the church)

I had problems though with not hearing the Word of God from the bible. To me, the LDS scriptures were just another book. I heard a lot of confessing Joseph Smith. I heard a lot of confessing that it was the only true church and read pieces of the LDS scriptures where Joseph Smith claims to be better than the Christ that changed my life. I brought this up to those that made themselves available to me and they explained it as Joseph Smith being an imperfect man as myself. I cam home from work one day and my wife was crying in the shower. I asked what was wrong and she hesitantly explained to me that she doesn't hear from the Holy Spirit anymore and that she is not sure she is in the right church.

So now we attend a christian church right across the street. Missionaries still come over and spend time with us and we love them to death. But the decision that is placed before us to decide that there is only one place where people meet and fellowship that is right is a heavy burden. i am open to Gods revelation on this but find it hard to read the book of Mormon without feeling like i should be spending that time in the Bible. Why cant Christ be the church? Why does the world want to limit Gods ability to love and sanctify all his creation. i feel like the LDS church feels sad for us. But according to how i understand their doctrine, if they are right i will still be saved from eternal damnation just wont be in Gods presence. Dont understand how those two are possible at the same time but.....you know. anyways i probably spun this way off of OP. sorry. and if if this needs to be placed elsewhere, by all means.

Desperate To experience God's truth.

Edited December 9, 2013 by gatorjjp