Trayvon Martin

[marshac]

Because they want to turn it into a racial issue when its not. because think they can gain something politically from race baiting. thats what makes me mad about the whole thing. I say let the justice system sort it out, instead of radical groups putting illegal bounties on a man's head who has been charged with no crime.

+1

Just as the religious right fires up their base by talking about gay marriage, the Obama campaign is engaged in firing up a racial base for this upcoming election cycle-

Obama 2012 hoodies for sale at the Obama campaign webstore

African Americans for Obama

IMO this is the dirtiest of the campaign tactics thus far; ripping open the scabs of racial inequality in order to gain a few points in the polls. Unfortunately these tactics will most likely have effects that last for years and will undoubtedly cause injury (another) or death of innocent people.

Edited April 8, 2012 by marshac

[Tyler90AZ]

Even this is not necessarily true. Rather, many hear are reacting to the knee-jerk rush to judgment against Zimmerman--especially since most of the "trial by media" seems to be carried out by politically motivated sources.

Something does stink about a 17-year old, unarmed individual being shot to death. But we do not know all the facts. It's rather bizarre that NBC is promoting Zimmerman's guilt, and FOX is giving more of the defense of his action. Why is this that political?

The reality is that we don't know. We don't have all the facts, nor even half of them. The system is now in the spotlight, and so justice should prevail. My fear is that if the outcome does not please the left, there will be riots, and possible deaths or assaults. Too many people have already had to go into hiding--and not just Zimmerman either. Everyone who dares to speak on his behalf has taken precautions.

This is where we have a misunderstanding Chaplain, maybe you could help me understand.

It is the medias job to cover stories that people will watch, making them money. This story became huge, so the media covered the story. Are they just suppose to ignore this story?

I don't understand how this is that political. All different types of blacks are protesting, republican and democrat.

I also don't understand how you say this is a huge race issue. They only want justice(that does not automatically mean he is guilty) for one man. They just don't feel a proper investigation has taken place. It is not that they are saying, oh kill all white people. Is fox news calling this a race issue? If that is the case, fox news is causing the biggest race issue.

I completely agree we don't have all the facts, but that doesn't mean people haven't formed opinions. When you say if it doesn't appease the left you are making it a political issue. This is a black issue, not a left issue. If the police department releases the results of the investigation and it shows he is not guilty nothing will happen. They just desire a fair investigation. People are in fear because of a small minority of people. It is a fallacy to look at a few bone heads, new black panthers and spike lee, and say that is the case for the whole group.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Tyler90AZ

[Tyler90AZ]

+1

Just as the religious right fires up their base by talking about gay marriage, the Obama campaign is engaged in firing up a racial base for this upcoming election cycle-

Obama 2012 hoodies for sale at the Obama campaign webstore

African Americans for Obama

IMO this is the dirtiest of the campaign tactics thus far; ripping open the scabs of racial inequality in order to gain a few points in the polls. Unfortunately these tactics will most likely have effects that last for years and will undoubtedly cause injury (another) or death of innocent people.

Why is it a big deal is campaign is selling hoodies??? I wear a hoodie everyday and a majority of males in my age bracket do. Why is it a big deal he is trying to get the African American vote? Does not a latino try to get the latino vote? Does not a Mormon try to get the Mormon vote? Does not a evangelical try to get the evangelical vote? He did not rip open any scabs, this rose to the forefront of the media and he comment. That is about part for the course for any politician.

[Just_A_Guy]

It is the medias job to cover stories that people will watch, making them money. This story became huge, so the media covered the story. Are they just suppose to ignore this story?

The trouble (IMHO) is, they didn't just "cover" the story; as I argued in an earlier post to this thread. They manipulated the story.

They only want justice(that does not automatically mean he is guilty) for one man. They just don't feel a proper investigation has taken place.

A conclusion based to some degree (though, I concede, not entirely) on this trumped-up Zimmerman-as-racist narrative.

If the police department releases the results of the investigation and it shows he is not guilty nothing will happen. They just desire a fair investigation.

Not really; because the police department/DA already completed their investigation; and no less an authority than the United States Department of Justice basically demanded a do-over.

I fear that this is no longer about a "fair investigation"; but about a "fair" investigation that will yield the desired result.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[marshac]

Why is it a big deal is campaign is selling hoodies??? I wear a hoodie everyday and a majority of males in my age bracket do. Why is it a big deal he is trying to get the African American vote? Does not a latino try to get the latino vote? Does not a Mormon try to get the Mormon vote? Does not a evangelical try to get the evangelical vote? He did not rip open any scabs, this rose to the forefront of the media and he comment. That is about part for the course for any politician.

Seriously?

First off, the hoodie has become somewhat of a symbol of the Trayvon case. Guess when they went on sale? After the Trayvon incident.

Would you be OK with a "Whites for Gingrich" campaign website? Even if you personally fine with it- the media would not be, and the effort would last for about 5 seconds before the site got pulled. Why the double standard?

The campaign is attempting to capitalize on an unfortunate incident which revolves purely around race and unfortunately has heightened racial tensions. I'll agree that politicians have a tenancy to do whatever they need to do in order to get elected, but there's a difference here- Obama is also our President, and that office should be attempting to unite the American people- not using race to divide and conquer.

[pam]

Just a reminder that any references to any presidential candidate and their campaign will be deleted. It is against the site rules and we run the risk of losing our non profit status.

[Tyler90AZ]

The trouble (IMHO) is, they didn't just "cover" the story; as I argued in an earlier post to this thread. They manipulated the story.

A conclusion based to some degree (though, I concede, not entirely) on this trumped-up Zimmerman-as-racist narrative.

Not really; because the police department/DA already completed their investigation; and no less an authority than the United States Department of Justice basically demanded a do-over.

I fear that this is no longer about a "fair investigation"; but about a "fair" investigation that will yield the desired result.

They feel the police just threw the case out as another black guy doing something bad. That is why the hoodie has become a huge symbol for this issue. Just because he is black and wearing a hoodie does not mean he was out to beat Zimmerman. Another symbol is the skittles because he just left a store from buying skittles and an ice tea, not up to no good.

[Just_A_Guy]

They feel the police just threw the case out as another black guy doing something bad. That is why the hoodie has become a huge symbol for this issue. Just because he is black and wearing a hoodie does not mean he was out to beat Zimmerman. Another symbol is the skittles because he just left a store from buying skittles and an ice tea, not up to no good.

I don't recall any Sanford official saying that the hoodie had anything to do with it. If I've missed something, I'm open to seeing a link.

And this "Martin as innocent victim" narrative begs several questions, which the media has done its part to cover up. It begs the question of how Zimmerman's nose came to be broken (the media just gives us Mary Cutcher who says she didn't notice Zimmerman wiping any blood off his face; ignoring the witnesses who--for their own safety--remain anonymous but assert that Martin was on top of Zimmerman during the scuffle). It begs the question of how Zimmerman got grass stains on his back that corroborate his story (the media simply ignored or buried this factoid). It begs the question of how Zimmerman came to get lacerations on the back of his head which actually show up in the police station video (ABC News denied these lacerations even existed and, when it aired the video, covered the critical part of the images with their own logo.)

And as far as I can tell from Google, no one--but no one--has released a map of the area that shows the locations of Zimmerman's truck, his 911 call, and Martin's body in relation to each other. That should be pretty easy to put together at this point, but no media source seems to have bothered to do so.

I am not convinced Martin's supporters would have demonstrated so much hostility to Sanford law enforcement officials, had the media done its job and let the world know from the get-go how complex this case really was. But the media seems to be persisting in a bizarre game of hide-the-ball, and I have to ask:

Why?

Edited April 8, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[Tyler90AZ]

I don't recall any Sanford official saying that the hoodie had anything to do with it. If I've missed something, I'm open to seeing a link.

And this "Martin as innocent victim" narrative begs several questions, which the media has done its part to cover up. It begs the question of how Zimmerman's nose came to be broken (the media just gives us Mary Cutcher who says she didn't notice Zimmerman wiping any blood off his face; ignoring the witnesses who--for their own safety--remain anonymous but assert that Martin was on top of Zimmerman during the scuffle). It begs the question of how Zimmerman got grass stains on his back that corroborate his story (the media simply ignored or buried this factoid). It begs the question of how Zimmerman came to get lacerations on the back of his head which actually show up in the police station video (ABC News denied these lacerations even existed and, when it aired the video, covered the critical part of the images with their own logo.)

And as far as I can tell from Google, no one--but no one--has released a map of the area that shows the locations of Zimmerman's truck, his 911 call, and Martin's body in relation to each other. That should be pretty easy to put together at this point, but no media source seems to have bothered to do so.

I am not convinced Martin's supporters would have demonstrated so much hostility to Sanford law enforcement officials, had the media done its job and let the world know from the get-go how complex this case really was. But the media seems to be persisting in a bizarre game of hide-the-ball, and I have to ask:

Why?

Money and ratings would obviously be the biggest motivator. I don't see how a secret motive to get somebody elected would trump that.

Don't have cable so haven't really kept track of everything. Posted this thread after seeing it in the news(internet) for a few days. I follow Aristotle(I believe he was the one), and take the difficult stances. Although I honestly believe this case is a little fishy, like you say a tough case.

[Saldrin]

This is where we have a misunderstanding Chaplain, maybe you could help me understand.

It is the medias job to cover stories that people will watch, making them money. This story became huge, so the media covered the story. Are they just suppose to ignore this story?

They have been caught and have admitted to editing and that has inflamed the situation. its journalistic malpractice.

I don't understand how this is that political. All different types of blacks are protesting, republican and democrat.

Please provide links and references.

I also don't understand how you say this is a huge race issue. They only want justice(that does not automatically mean he is guilty) for one man. They just don't feel a proper investigation has taken place. It is not that they are saying, oh kill all white people. Is fox news calling this a race issue? If that is the case, fox news is causing the biggest race issue.

putting a bounty on someones head who has not caused a crime, is not justice nor a way to get justice nor is putting an illegal bounty protesting an injustice. in fact its soliciting kidnapping, which is very much against the law. the video i linked to earlier explains a lot about the false racial component to this. the news has gone out of their way to portray this as a white on black crime which it isn't Zimmerman is Hispanic for one, and for another he spent his time helping out minorities in his community. there is a pretty good chance, that race wasn't a factor in what happened, and yet the news organizations spewed that stuff out and you bought it hook line and sinker with out question.

I

It is a fallacy to look at a few bone heads, new black panthers and spike lee, and say that is the case for the whole group.

I agree with that, what gets me is they are put right out in front so maybe that grabs my attention, but i disagree is a black issue we need to get past racial issues as a society it is a matter for law, and law alone to decide.

[Vort]

What about the birthers who rushed to judgement?

Yes, what about them?

Is it only ok when it is your political side?

Is this your defense?

Shouldn't the police department be skeptical about this situation? Is their apparent lack of investigation the problem?

What on earth are you talking about? Where is your evidence that the police department is engaging in an "apparent lack of investigation"?

To me, the most frightening aspect of this whole situation is realizing that people who believe and say the things expressed above have an equal vote with the rest of us. That is a truly sobering thought.

[Tyler90AZ]

To me, the most frightening aspect of this whole situation is realizing that people who believe and say the things expressed above have an equal vote with the rest of us. That is a truly sobering thought.

Take a breath, this is a friendly conversation.

[prisonchaplain]

This is where we have a misunderstanding Chaplain, maybe you could help me understand.

It is the medias job to cover stories that people will watch, making them money. This story became huge, so the media covered the story. Are they just suppose to ignore this story?

I don't understand how this is that political. All different types of blacks are protesting, republican and democrat.

If there is a sense that African-Americans still get less justice, have less rights, and can expect less protection from the system, then there is an underlying message that these same folks should get behind the civil rights establishment (including the particular party that tends to align with it), so that the situation can be improved. Oh...it might also be perceived that certain media outlets support the racial community better, also.

Media will not ignore a story. However, there is reporting and there is rushing to judgment, and news mixed with extreme doses of commentary.

I also don't understand how you say this is a huge race issue. They only want justice(that does not automatically mean he is guilty) for one man. They just don't feel a proper investigation has taken place. It is not that they are saying, oh kill all white people.

I discussed this with a very level-headed individual, who happens to be African-American. He's convinced that if Zimmerman goes free or is not arrested, there will be riots.

The fact that NBC kept calling Zimmerman white, when he was Hispanic (and yes, there have been reports of bad feelings between both minority groups in that community). After being called on this, they began referring to Zimmerman as 'White Hispanic."

And, I'll be frank...I do think there is a secondary hope that many will associate the kind of whites who might do/encourage/protect the Zimmermans of the world tend to belong to a particular party, and so the other party is your place of refuge.

Is fox news calling this a race issue? If that is the case, fox news is causing the biggest race issue.

Some FOX commentators believe that some NBC commentators are playing the race angle to gin up interest, ratings, and again, some secondary political push back.

I completely agree we don't have all the facts, but that doesn't mean people haven't formed opinions. When you say if it doesn't appease the left you are making it a political issue. This is a black issue, not a left issue.

The civil rights establishment that purports to represent African American interests is overwhelmingly in support of the Left. There are notable exceptions, but the ones that we see commentating the most vehemently do tend to lean quite heavily to the left.

If the police department releases the results of the investigation and it shows he is not guilty nothing will happen. They just desire a fair investigation. People are in fear because of a small minority of people. It is a fallacy to look at a few bone heads, new black panthers and spike lee, and say that is the case for the whole group.

I hope you are right. However, I watched Rev. Sharpton's show on this issue, and it was a kangaroo court. He had Zimmerman, the Sanford police tried and convicted before the show started. And he was very clear about his intention to call for Sanford to be occupied.

[bytor2112]

What about the birthers who rushed to judgement? Is it only ok when it is your political side? Did I condemn Zimmerman or did I say something doesn't sound right? Shouldn't the police department be skeptical about this situation? Is their apparent lack of investigation the problem?

Oh please...everyone knows HE was born in Hawaii.......just like everyone knows that Bush planned for 9-11....don't be so obtuse.

How do you know the police aren't skeptical? Could it be that the existing evidence doesn't support an arrest and trial?

I must say that if someone knocked me down and was attempting to bash my head into the concrete and I had a gun....they could expect to get shot.

Edited April 8, 2012 by bytor2112

[bytor2112]

Maybe NBC needs to be added to the "should be arrested" list--according to the liberal Huffington Post: NBC News Admits 'Error' In Editing Of George Zimmerman 911 Call

Oh...but it was just a mistake

[prisonchaplain]

Oops...itty bitty mistake. But, since this accident made such a stinky, we'll fire the producer...NBC fires producer over edited Zimmerman 911 call | The Upshot - Yahoo! News

Ironically, the rapid dismissal suggests that the accident was so unintended as to be unforgivable. Huh?

[MorningStar]

And of course they're not going to tell the public who is responsible. They wouldn't want a bounty on their head or to start a riot, huh?

[mirkwood]

Zimmerman injury photo:

http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

[bytor2112]

[sIZE="4]Dershowitz Blasts Zimmerman Prosecution: 'Not Only Immoral, But Stupid'

[bytor2112]

Dershowitz Blasts Zimmerman Prosecution: 'Not Only Immoral, But Stupid'

[Tyler90AZ]

It seems like people have a hard time admitting they were wrong. It is of my opinion, where George Zimmerman made a fatal mistake is chasing after Trayvon when he was told not to. I never believed he wanted to kill the kid. Although he did kill the kid due to his own negligence. We don't know who started the fight, but we do know Zimmerman put a bullet through Trayvons chest, leaving him dead. If he would not have chased Trayvon, the kid would not be dead.

Also, did anybody watch the bond hearing? Zimmerman is a criminal, Trayvon Martin was not. In addition, Zimmerman appeared to lie and got angry easily. It was clear as day that the prosecution is going to bring up Zimmerman changed his story multiple times. Also he presumably lied under oath at the bond hearing. The prosecution has all the evidence regarding cell phone records and what Zimmerman said in his interviews. Yet, Zimmerman proceeded to lie and say I didn't say that.

[bytor2112]

Tyler....your way off base. Zimmerman is innocent UNTIL proven guilt and Martin, by some accounts was a criminal or at least had been involved in criminal activities.

Had Zimmerman not followed Martin, Martin would be still alive. Had young black men in hoods not been burglarizing homes in his neighborhood, Zimmerman might not have followed Martin and had Martin NOT been bashing Zimmerman's head into the pavement, Martin might still be alive.

[LittleWyvern]

At least there's going to be a fair trial now. The decision isn't ours anymore. I think we can all agree to just accept whatever verdict the trial hands down and be done with this.

[Tyler90AZ]

People use innocent until proven guilty to crush any commentary on the case they don't agree with. When the term is better applied to somebody who says, "hang Zimmerman he killed Trayvon," without wanting a trial. I believe in the justice system and what ever decision is made that is fine. At the same time though, people are allowed to give their opinion on the case. You have given your opinion and I can give mine.

Also remember if George is found guilty, that it is not innocent even though found guilty.

[Saldrin]

It seems like people have a hard time admitting they were wrong. It is of my opinion, where George Zimmerman made a fatal mistake is chasing after Trayvon when he was told not to. I never believed he wanted to kill the kid. Although he did kill the kid due to his own negligence. We don't know who started the fight, but we do know Zimmerman put a bullet through Trayvons chest, leaving him dead. If he would not have chased Trayvon, the kid would not be dead.

Also, did anybody watch the bond hearing? Zimmerman is a criminal, Trayvon Martin was not. In addition, Zimmerman appeared to lie and got angry easily. It was clear as day that the prosecution is going to bring up Zimmerman changed his story multiple times. Also he presumably lied under oath at the bond hearing. The prosecution has all the evidence regarding cell phone records and what Zimmerman said in his interviews. Yet, Zimmerman proceeded to lie and say I didn't say that.

As normal your are completely butt backwards...