Church attitude towards Gays.

[Martain]

An Alchoholic receives the Gospel and desires Baptism. Then they are taught the Word of Wisdom and abstinance from alcoholic consumption.

The Alcoholic states that they will not give up drinking alcohol and demands to be accepted anyways. They state that their body likes it so it's only natural. That what they do with their body is nobody else's business. That this is just who they are and that the reports of both immediate and long term consequences are incorrect and misreported. That a loving God would accept them anyways and not require that they change.

Should an Alcoholic be offended that we do not allow them to bring alcohol into our homes? No.

Should an Alcoholic be offended that we do not accept their alcoholism as part of who they are? No.

Is the commandment any different for them than for us? No, all members are required to obey the Word of Wisdom.

Although we don't tolerate or look upon the alcohol with allowance, do we still love the individual? Yes.

Is this individual welcome to come and worship with us? Yes.

Are we still friendly and welcoming to the individual? Yes.

We know that the Lord has revealed that drinking alcohol is not good for us. Out of love he has commanded us to abstain from the consumption of alcohol. We know that alcohol is addicting and harmful to the consumer. We know that it destroys lives and families. We know that there are many blessings that can only be obtained through obedience to this and the other commandments of God.

Is the Church friendly to Alcoholics? Yes.

Likewise we can speak to Gays/Lesbians.

A Gay/Lesbian receives the Gospel and desires Baptism. Then they are taught the Law of Chastity and abstinence from all sexual relations prior to marriage.

The Gay/Lesbian states that they will not give up their unchaste behavior and demands to be accepted anyways. They state that their body likes it so it's only natural. That what they do with their body is nobody else's business. That this is just who they are and that the reports of both immediate and long term consequences are incorrect and misreported. That a loving God would accept them anyways and not require that they change.

Should a Gay/Lesbian be offended that we do not accept such behavior into our homes? No.

Should a Gay/Lesbian be offended that we do not accept such behavior as part of who they are? No.

Is the commandment any different for them than for us? No, all members are required to obey the Law of Chastity.

Although we don't tolerate or look upon homosexuality with allowance, do we still love the individual? Yes.

Is this individual welcome to come and worship with us? Yes.

Are we still friendly and welcoming to the individual? Yes.

We know that the Lord has revealed that homosexual relations is not good for us. Out of love he has commanded all of us to abstain from engaging in homosexual relations. We know that homosexuality is addicting and harmful to the practitioner. We know that it destroys lives and families. We know that there are many blessings that can only be obtained through obedience to this and the other commandments of God.

Is the Church friendly to

The Church views homosexuality in the same way it views alcoholism in that both are sins, both can be overcome by the power of the Atonement through sincere repentance and while obedience to these laws brings happiness, disobedience brings misery.

All of us have weaknesses upon which the Adversary capitalizes in order to tempt us. Yet the promise is the same to all.

And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. (Either 12:27)

The attitude of the Church towards Gays/Lesbians has always been the same. We know that the greatest blessings and joys in this life and in the next can only be obtained through marriage in the temple between a man and a woman and we deeply desire that all receive these blessings.

We ask nothing of them that we do not ask of all. We know that wickedness never was happiness (Alma 41:10). We love them and want them to be happy and because of this we invite them continually to repent and come unto Christ for healing.

[Martain]

The answer as to why Gays/Lesbians want to be members of the Church has a wide variety of answers.

To break it down though, there are two categories of such individuals in the question above.

There are those who unrepentant have no desire to change and or are unwilling to do so and those who being repentant desire to change and are willing to do so.

To which were you inquiring to in the above question?

[Martain]

Brother Ray,

I expect you and I have felt the same and can understand each other.

Will those who have had a fullness of opportunities to enter into the covenant of marriage in this life and refused to take advantage of them have the opportunity to receive it in the next?

We know that it is possible to procrastinate the day of our repentance until it is everlastingly too late. Why should it not likewise be possible to procrastinate marriage until it is everlastingly too late as well?

Fortunately for all, it is the Lord who determines what qualifies as a fullness of opportunities. Fortunately for all, in addition to Justice, he is also the personification of Mercy.

Though I am still much younger I too have grown concerned regarding my own state. I was concerned that perhaps I'd already had a fullness of opportunity to enter into marriage and that were I to die that day I would have eternally forfieted the blessings of marriage.

It was very comforting when the spirit testified that no, I had not received such fullness of opportunies and that were I to die, I would still have the blessing of persuing the righteous desire for marriage.

In regards to your other questions, I refer you to the responses from the Apostles in our day found in the LDS.NEWS room here as I feel that their responses will answer quite a few of them.

[Soulsearcher]

We know that homosexuality is addicting and harmful to the practitioner. We know that it destroys lives and families.

I wouldn't mind clarification of this. Just how does it destroy lives and families and exactly how is it harmful?

[Martain]

Place holder while I write an answer

Update: I've almost completed my reply but it will take some additional time which I will have available later tonight/tomorrow.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Martain

[annewandering]

I wouldn't mind clarification of this. Just how does it destroy lives and families and exactly how is it harmful?

It destroyed my cousins marriage. Was it harmful to her and to their marriage? Yes it was. She was devastated and even though the breakup was many many years ago it created wounds that never healed.

[Wingnut]

But did homosexuality destroy the marriage, or did her (ex-)husband's poor choices in trying to marry out of it (and later, presumably, cheat on her with men) destroy the marriage? Homosexuality doesn't hurt people -- people hurt people. (To be trite.)

[annewandering]

No one would have been hurt if he hadnt lived and desired a homosexual lifestyle. Any of the choices you list result from this desire.

[circusboy01]

Brother Ray,

I expect you and I have felt the same and can understand each other.

Will those who have had a fullness of opportunities to enter into the covenant of marriage in this life and refused to take advantage of them have the opportunity to receive it in the next?

We know that it is possible to procrastinate the day of our repentance until it is everlastingly too late. Why should it not likewise be possible to procrastinate marriage until it is everlastingly too late as well?

Fortunately for all, it is the Lord who determines what qualifies as a fullness of opportunities. Fortunately for all, in addition to Justice, he is also the personification of Mercy.

Though I am still much younger I too have grown concerned regarding my own state. I was concerned that perhaps I'd already had a fullness of opportunity to enter into marriage and that were I to die that day I would have eternally forfieted the blessings of marriage.

It was very comforting when the spirit testified that no, I had not received such fullness of opportunies and that were I to die, I would still have the blessing of persuing the righteous desire for marriage.

In regards to your other questions, I refer you to the responses from the Apostles in our day found in the LDS.NEWS room here as I feel that their responses will answer quite a few of them.

Thank you very much for your Posts. Don't worry too much about finding a wife, if you are still young, and if you don't find a wife in this life, being the kind of strong member that your Post show you to be, surly Heavenly Father will provide a wonderful mate for you in the spirit world. Brother Ray

[Soulsearcher]

No one would have been hurt if he hadnt lived and desired a homosexual lifestyle. Any of the choices you list result from this desire.

now did he marry her because he was expected to and pressured. If so it wasn't being gay that did the damage it was living up to people expectations. Remember it's only been recent that it's been accepted that marriage isn't a cure and won't fix things, otherwise it was preached as the only right thing to do from many religious and non-religious sources.

I could just as easily say that religion destroys families because they have forced gays to marry or go through harmful therapies to try and be cured and if it doesn't work they disown the children. Was it really religion or the individuals who took action?

Edited April 22, 2012 by Soulsearcher

[circusboy01]

An Alchoholic receives the Gospel and desires Baptism. Then they are taught the Word of Wisdom and abstinance from alcoholic consumption.

The Alcoholic states that they will not give up drinking alcohol and demands to be accepted anyways. They state that their body likes it so it's only natural. That what they do with their body is nobody else's business. That this is just who they are and that the reports of both immediate and long term consequences are incorrect and misreported. That a loving God would accept them anyways and not require that they change.

Should an Alcoholic be offended that we do not allow them to bring alcohol into our homes? No.

Should an Alcoholic be offended that we do not accept their alcoholism as part of who they are? No.

Is the commandment any different for them than for us? No, all members are required to obey the Word of Wisdom.

Although we don't tolerate or look upon the alcohol with allowance, do we still love the individual? Yes.

Is this individual welcome to come and worship with us? Yes.

Are we still friendly and welcoming to the individual? Yes.

We know that the Lord has revealed that drinking alcohol is not good for us. Out of love he has commanded us to abstain from the consumption of alcohol. We know that alcohol is addicting and harmful to the consumer. We know that it destroys lives and families. We know that there are many blessings that can only be obtained through obedience to this and the other commandments of God.

Is the Church friendly to Alcoholics? Yes.

Likewise we can speak to Gays/Lesbians.

A Gay/Lesbian receives the Gospel and desires Baptism. Then they are taught the Law of Chastity and abstinence from all sexual relations prior to marriage.

The Gay/Lesbian states that they will not give up their unchaste behavior and demands to be accepted anyways. They state that their body likes it so it's only natural. That what they do with their body is nobody else's business. That this is just who they are and that the reports of both immediate and long term consequences are incorrect and misreported. That a loving God would accept them anyways and not require that they change.

Should a Gay/Lesbian be offended that we do not accept such behavior into our homes? No.

Should a Gay/Lesbian be offended that we do not accept such behavior as part of who they are? No.

Is the commandment any different for them than for us? No, all members are required to obey the Law of Chastity.

Although we don't tolerate or look upon homosexuality with allowance, do we still love the individual? Yes.

Is this individual welcome to come and worship with us? Yes.

Are we still friendly and welcoming to the individual? Yes.

We know that the Lord has revealed that homosexual relations is not good for us. Out of love he has commanded all of us to abstain from engaging in homosexual relations. We know that homosexuality is addicting and harmful to the practitioner. We know that it destroys lives and families. We know that there are many blessings that can only be obtained through obedience to this and the other commandments of God.

Is the Church friendly to

The Church views homosexuality in the same way it views alcoholism in that both are sins, both can be overcome by the power of the Atonement through sincere repentance and while obedience to these laws brings happiness, disobedience brings misery.

All of us have weaknesses upon which the Adversary capitalizes in order to tempt us. Yet the promise is the same to all.

The attitude of the Church towards Gays/Lesbians has always been the same. We know that the greatest blessings and joys in this life and in the next can only be obtained through marriage in the temple between a man and a woman and we deeply desire that all receive these blessings.

We ask nothing of them that we do not ask of all. We know that wickedness never was happiness (Alma 41:10). We love them and want them to be happy and because of this we invite them continually to repent and come unto Christ for healing.

Thank you. Instead of just giving your opinions,or thoughts, on the subject, you have written down, exactly what the Churches position is on Gays, Alcoholics, and any other habit or desire a man or woman might have that would keep them from being baptized.

Thank you again Brother Ray

[annewandering]

now did he marry her because he was expected to and pressured. If so it wasn't being gay that did the damage it was living up to people expectations. Remember it's only been recent that it's been accepted that marriage isn't a cure and won't fix things, otherwise it was preached as the only right thing to do from many religious and non-religious sources.

I could just as easily say that religion destroys families because they have forced gays to marry or go through harmful therapies to try and be cured and if it doesn't work they disown the children. Was it really religion or the individuals who took action?

He married her for a trophy wife, apparently, cute, popular and cheerleader. He did not marry her to love and honor and cherish her. Why? Well because he had a boyfriend he liked better. He did not have to cheat on her and hurt her but he did because he was homosexual and decided he liked that better.

[Soulsearcher]

He married her for a trophy wife, apparently, cute, popular and cheerleader. He did not marry her to love and honor and cherish her. Why? Well because he had a boyfriend he liked better. He did not have to cheat on her and hurt her but he did because he was homosexual and decided he liked that better.

So you don't know if i'm right or not, if he married a trophy because he was pressured to or not. Was he right to do it, not in the least, did he have a choice, of course he did, but let me tell you from experience, to keep the peace, keep the family together and not hurt people, it's amazing how far you'll go to appease and then hate yourself afterwards. Was homosexuality a factor, of course it was, was it the sole cause, probably not. To finally deal with the situation i broke contact with all of my family except my parents and moved 3 hours away so i didn't have to keep dealing with the " when are we getting grandchildren" conversation. Easier than getting engaged again or telling them i'm gay.

[annewandering]

oh yes. There was the children aspect. She wanted them and he didnt. Again was it because he was homosexual? My guess is yes,especially since he was being pressured by his bf to leave the marriage. Religion was not much of a factor till AFTER they were married. Then they both worked for Billy Grahams crusade.

None of this would have happened at all if he hadnt decided on living a gay life style. It was strictly his decision and completely out of the blue. He can excuse what he did by most anything I suppose but in the end it was his decision to marry and his to end it.

This is just one instance brought to mind by asking if ANY family or person had been injured by homosexuality and my answer is YES. Tear the instance apart and it will still remain a case of harm.

[Soulsearcher]

oh yes. There was the children aspect. She wanted them and he didnt. Again was it because he was homosexual? My guess is yes,especially since he was being pressured by his bf to leave the marriage. Religion was not much of a factor till AFTER they were married. Then they both worked for Billy Grahams crusade.

None of this would have happened at all if he hadnt decided on living a gay life style. It was strictly his decision and completely out of the blue. He can excuse what he did by most anything I suppose but in the end it was his decision to marry and his to end it.

This is just one instance brought to mind by asking if ANY family or person had been injured by homosexuality and my answer is YES. Tear the instance apart and it will still remain a case of harm.

I haven't said it can't happen because i know it can

That being said it's not a sure thing, Homosexuality isn't always damaging.

I've seen horrible things done to people in the name of religion and sanctioned by leaders so it's not just a bad member. Do i take this to mean that all religion is damaging?

It's easy when it happens to a loved one to take the marn and not look it all the way through. This is why i'm so against gays marrying straights and yet it keeps being pushed as an acceptable thing and for some a goal for gays. i'm not doubting the harm done to your family and i have sympathy, but I've been on the other side of it as well and it's just as painful. It's not as clear cut as you see it though it can be hard to see it from this close in any other light.

My question to martin was more being he stated it as a blanket statement i wanted to know how it was by definition harmful, not a case by case basis

Edited April 22, 2012 by Soulsearcher

[annewandering]

I dont think anyone should marry without love being the reason. Period. I am also sure religion, politics and education, in fact any subject, has been a cause of damage to a family in some instance. Most of these issues have nothing to do with the family directly but homosexuality does. Because it does it can have a very direct damaging effect on families and individuals.

I am trying to be fair here and think of how homosexuality can have a positive effect on the family and I am drawing a blank.

[Soulsearcher]

I dont think anyone should marry without love being the reason. Period. I am also sure religion, politics and education, in fact any subject, has been a cause of damage to a family in some instance. Most of these issues have nothing to do with the family directly but homosexuality does. Because it does it can have a very direct damaging effect on families and individuals.

I am trying to be fair here and think of how homosexuality can have a positive effect on the family and I am drawing a blank.

I've seen it have 0 effect at all, it's just who the person is and it makes no waves what so ever. the kids gay, the parents are fine with it, he/she find a partner and it's just the same as if he was straight, no difference at all to the family in any way. My first boy friends family was like this, they just wanted him happy and healthy and that was about it.

I agree that marriage should be for love only and should be entered into of free will and with true desire yet seem to be shouted down now and then when i suggest it.

i tend to think religion has a very strong effect on families and how they deal with many situations. We've seen members on this board disowned because they convert to the church. The example of my cousin being disowned because he was gay ( was 16 and had done nothing at all with a guy). he came out and his mother said "no good catholic could ever have a f** living under her roof." Was it homosexuality that was the sole reason or did religion play a fair part?

The effect homosexuality has on most situations is dependent on the people involved, it's easy to say it's only because of homosexuality but being there are a lot of cases where it makes no impact at all, there has to be other factors at play that take some of the blame as well.

[Wingnut]

None of this would have happened at all if he hadnt decided on living a gay life style.

That's the key right there: he chose to live a gay lifestyle. It wasn't his homosexual tendencies or feelings that were the problem or that destroyed the marriage...it was that he chose to act on them.

The daughter of a dear friend of mine went through a similar experience, after 10 years of marriage and four kids. She's happily remarried now, but there was a lot of damage done, and it took a long time to heal from it. I used to say that gays destroy families, but I no longer feel that way. I think that poor choices and lack of self-control are the problems in cases like these.

[Martain]

We know that homosexuality is addicting and harmful to the practitioner. We know that it destroys lives and families.

I wouldn't mind clarification of this. Just how does it destroy lives and families and exactly how is it harmful?

Although we continually try to prove Him wrong, wickedness really never was happiness (Alma 41:10). I tried it in my own life and thought I was happy but in retrospect I was not.

Think of a blind man who had never seen the beauty and splendor of the world around us with all the vibrancy of color and hues. Think of a deaf man who has never reveled in delight at the sound of wholesome music. Could such men be content having no understanding of what they're missing?

Being able to see and being able to hear, would you be content to live a life where you no longer had these senses? Having enjoyed them so far, would you be happy without them?

A servant of the King leaves the safty of the city walls and is captured by the king's enemies who torture him with brands of molten iron inflicting harm until he dies.

Those who practice homosexuality harm themselves by becoming blind and deaf through self-inflicted wounds of sin. These wounds are like molten iron brands which inflict harm upon the soul until it spiritually dies.

Those who practice homosexuality destroy the quality of their life here and in the next by removing themselves from the Light, cutting themselves off from God and his love for them so as to walk in darkness.

Those who practice homosexuality destroy their families by cutting themselves off from those they love in the eternities and often here as well. They also sacrifice the family they otherwise would have created and all the blessings of joy and love that they otherwise would have enjoyed.

The King is God who in love has set up walls to protect us called commandments. The enemy is Satan who entices us to leave the protection of the walls under the lie that there is no danger in doing so.

How can a man navigate the storm and see the light of the lighthouse guiding away from rocks and impending doom if has no sight? How can a sheep follow the cry of the shephard towards saftey if it can not hear?

How can a man avoid falling into a staked pit placed in front of him if he is blind? Though the King warns him how can a man be lead to saftey who is deaf?

The marriage relationship and the family is eternal in nature 1. Marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God 2. Marriage and Children are good and bring joy and happiness 3. Without the blessings of Temple Sealings validated by the Holy Ghost, no family connection will exist beyond the grave 4.

When ever we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience 5. The fruit of the Spirit is joy 6. Eternal Life is to live have the kind of life that God has and, with our loved ones, live with him 7. No unclean thing can dwell in Heaven or in the presence of God 8.

When we sin we cut ourselves off from the Spirit of the Lord 9. Homosexuality is a sin 10. As we sin and fail to repent, we are lead into even further sin and wickedness 11. The wages of sin is death 12. Those who do not repent of their sin must suffer for their sin themselves 13.

The attitude of the Church towards Gays/Lesbians has always been the same. We know that the greatest blessings and joys in this life and in the next can only be obtained through marriage in the temple between a man and a woman and we deeply desire that all receive these blessings.

We ask nothing of them that we do not ask of all. We know that wickedness never was happiness (Alma 41:10). We love them and want them to be happy and because of this we invite them continually to repent and come unto Christ for healing.

And, again, I say unto you, that whoso having knowledge, have I not commanded to repent?

Yea, verily I say unto you, if ye will come unto me ye shall have eternal life. Behold, mine arm of mercy is extended towards you, and whosoever will come, him will I receive; and blessed are those who come unto me.

Will ye not now return unto me, and repent of your sins, and be converted, that I may heal you?

THE FAMILY

A PROCLAMATION TO THE WORLD

The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

WE, THE FIRST PRESIDENCY and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

IN THE PREMORTAL REALM, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshipped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny as heirs of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

THE FIRST COMMANDMENT that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

WE DECLARE the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.

HUSBAND AND WIFE have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. “Children are an heritage of the Lord” (Psalm 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, and to teach them to love and serve one another, observe the commandments of God, and be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

THE FAMILY is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

WE WARN that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

WE CALL UPON responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

References:

1. D&C 132:15-20

2. Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:3-6, D&C 49:15

3. Moses 3:18, Ecclesiastes 9:9, Hebrews 13:4, Psalms 127:3-5

4. D&C 132:7

5. D&C 130:20-21

6. Galations 5:22, D&C 11:13

7. John 17:3, D&C 132:24, D&C 88:4

8. 1 Nephi 15:34, Alma 11:37, Ephesians 5:5

9. 2 Nephi 33:2, Jacob 6:8, Alma 40:13, Helaman 4:24, D&C 63:32, D&C 95:12

10. Leviticus 18:12, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, Jude 1:7

11. Helaman 6:31, 2 Nephi 28:21-22

12. Romans 6:23, Mosiah 2:33

13. D&C 19:15-20

Edited April 23, 2012 by Martain

[MorningStar]

Didn't mean to offend. I was just going by what we are taught. That you cannot reach the highest degree of Glory, unless you have been married in the Temple.

That's not true. You can go to the Celestial Kingdom if you're not married. You do have to be sealed to be exalted.

[Martain]

Can we obtain a place in the Celestial Kingdom without being married in a temple?

Yes. D&C 132: 15-17

Can we obtain the highest degree of Glory without being married in a temple?

No. D&C 131: 1-4

Do we have to be sealed in marriage to be exalted?

Yes. D&C 132:17

Hope this helps =)

Edited April 23, 2012 by Martain

[carlimac]

now did he marry her because he was expected to and pressured. If so it wasn't being gay that did the damage it was living up to people expectations. Remember it's only been recent that it's been accepted that marriage isn't a cure and won't fix things, otherwise it was preached as the only right thing to do from many religious and non-religious sources.

Soul, you keep harping on this one point. It seems to you that any gay who gets married to a woman did it under pressure from family and expectations. That just isn't always the case. There are many, (I'm sure many more than we even know) who really want to be married to a woman (not just for religious reasons) and to have a family in the traditional way. They just struggle with attraction to men. There is nothing wrong with wanting that. There is nothing wrong with trying to overcome their tendency to look at guys. It feels to me as I read what you write about this consistently that you don't really believe anyone can master their SGAs and overcome them or at least put them in their place way back in their psyches.

You've heard of the old Indian story of the two dogs. One evil and one good. Both with equal potential for growth and strength. The one that grows the most is the one that's fed. I believe it is entirely possible- I'd even venture to say that it's possible in most cases of homosexuality to minimize it in ones' life -essentially starve that bad ole dog to the point that it fades almost completely away. But society today is feeding the dog of SGA a feast. NO it won't go away with all the stuff in the media and with attitudes like yours that don't help. If someone wants to NOT be gay or lesbian, why do you insist they can't change? What is wrong with someone with SGA getting married to the opposite gender if it's something they really desire? IF they really don't think they can overcome it, then NO they shouldn't get married. But don't diss the ones who are sincere about wanting to.

Edited April 23, 2012 by pam

[HEthePrimate]

I don't think homosexuals can help being homosexual any more than I can help being heterosexual. However, I do think that people can exercise self-control. I like women. I was born that way. I don't think that'll ever change. But I do not have sexual relations with every woman I see, either.

I think that's what the Church means when it says homosexuals are welcome in our midst, but are expected to follow Church standards. Maybe you can't help being attracted to certain people, but that's different than actually doing inappropriate things with them.

[Soulsearcher]

Soul, you keep harping on this one point. It seems to you that any gay who gets married to a woman did it under pressure from family and expectations. That just isn't always the case. There are many, (I'm sure many more than we even know) who really want to be married to a woman (not just for religious reasons) and to have a family in the traditional way. They just struggle with attraction to men. There is nothing wrong with wanting that. There is nothing wrong with trying to overcome their tendency to look at guys. It feels to me as I read what you write about this consistently that you don't really believe anyone can master their SGAs and overcome them or at least put them in their place way back in their psyches.

You've heard of the old Indian story of the two dogs. One evil and one good. Both with equal potential for growth and strength. The one that grows the most is the one that's fed. I believe it is entirely possible- I'd even venture to say that it's possible in most cases of homosexuality to minimize it in ones' life -essentially starve that bad ole dog to the point that it fades almost completely away. But society today is feeding the dog of SGA a feast. NO it won't go away with all the stuff in the media and with attitudes like yours that don't help. If someone wants to NOT be gay or lesbian, why do you insist they can't change? What is wrong with someone with SGA getting married to the opposite gender if it's something they really desire? IF they really don't think they can overcome it, then NO they shouldn't get married. But don't diss the ones who are sincere about wanting to.

I think you've missed something. Gays don't want to marry women. Gays want to be with their preferred partners. If not for pressure from others you really think we'd care about marriage to straight partners? There are other ways to have kids and there are other ways to have a family. The reason any gay(not bi) wants to settle down with someone of the opposite sex is because they for some reason think it's needed to prove something or to be normal. Religion, conforming to society, peer pressure, those are the reasons gays marry into straight relationships. The only reason any gay i've ever heard of wanting to over come their desire was because they were told in some way or other they had to, because they have to conform to either a religious or social ideal. Now again if a gay makes this choice more power to them, but lets not get deluded to think they just try and change spontaneously, they do it under pressure or perceived pressure from some source. i also haven't "dissed" the ones who want to, just have never met one who really wanted to without them thinking they had to from some sort or pressure.

I've consistently said i agree the tendencies can be controlled. I've even said i show great respect for LDS who live the expected chaste lifestyle. What i do say is there is a vast difference between controlling the desires and converting them to attractions unnatural for them. I for the most part control my desires, i notice cute guys, but i don't date or do hooks ups, this doesn't mean I'm any closer to being attracted to women, it doesn't lessen the desire it just keeps it in check so it doesn't control me. You also are right, you can starve the desires away completely, unfortunately it doesn't lead to the gay person being straight. according to places like the LDS supported Evergreen group it tends to lead to the persons becoming asexual, they just loose all desire at all. If this is what the person wants then more power to them and I'll be the first to throw a party for them and support them, if this is what they are told they want and do it for the sake of belonging or acceptance then i tend to not be as supportive but will still stand by them.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Soulsearcher

[Leah]

I think you've missed something. Gays don't want to marry women. Gays want to be with their preferred partners. If not for pressure from others you really think we'd care about marriage to straight partners? There are other ways to have kids and there are other ways to have a family. The reason any gay(not bi) wants to settle down with someone of the opposite sex is because they for some reason think it's needed to prove something or to be normal. Religion, conforming to society, peer pressure, those are the reasons gays marry into straight relationships. The only reason any gay i've ever heard of wanting to over come their desire was because they were told in some way or other they had to, because they have to conform to either a religious or social ideal. Now again if a gay makes this choice more power to them, but lets not get deluded to think they just try and change spontaneously, they do it under pressure or perceived pressure from some source. i also haven't "dissed" the ones who want to, just have never met one who really wanted to without them thinking they had to from some sort or pressure.

I've consistently said i agree the tendencies can be controlled. I've even said i show great respect for LDS who live the expected chaste lifestyle. What i do say is there is a vast difference between controlling the desires and converting them to attractions unnatural for them. I for the most part control my desires, i notice cute guys, but i don't date or do hooks ups, this doesn't mean I'm any closer to being attracted to women, it doesn't lessen the desire it just keeps it in check so it doesn't control me. You also are right, you can starve the desires away completely, unfortunately it doesn't lead to the gay person being straight. according to places like the LDS supported Evergreen group it tends to lead to the persons becoming asexual, they just loose all desire at all. If this is what the person wants then more power to them and I'll be the first to throw a party for them and support them, if this is what they are told they want and do it for the sake of belonging or acceptance then i tend to not be as supportive but will still stand by them.

So you think that you can speak for every single gay person on the planet? That they are all the same and all have the same feelings? That is pretty arrogant and presumptous. I don't think it is fair to put gay people into a one-size-fits-all box, any more than it is to do that to straight people. Simple being of one particular sexual orientation does not give every single person of that orientation the same feelings and thoughts on ANY subject.