How do you know the church is true

[GeoRioux]

Earlier today I had a talk with my wife and she was in tears for she is struggling with something and I can understand why because I am struggling with it also.

She is starting to wonder if the church is true or not. She says that she is just not sure..she is accepting of many of the things that the church teaches us. She says her prayers both day and night. She reads her scriptures, she atteds all her church meetings and fullfills her calling to the best of her ability.

She does not attend the temple as much as she should and I am sure that may help her..but she does not understand the temple. She says at times she is really confused on what is going on...why it is being done..and at times she has gone she has had a feeling of just running out.

I really want to help her...and myself to have a true testimony that the church is true. We both are accepting of the teachings..but don't have a testimony of the truthfullness.

As for me I am certain that the reason why I don't have a testimony of the truthfullness of the church is because the only thing that I really do (when I can get away from work) is go to church.

I do not read the scriptures, attend the temple, say my prayers (both personal and spousal), I don't do my HT. I do fulfill my calling the best I can, well at least my stake calling, my ward calling I am not doing much there.

I have ADD (not under medication but that is another story) and I just find it hard to not get distracted and keeping commitments on doing those above things. Just like here i am hyperfocused on seeing help, where I need to be at least reading or praying...maybe I will remember when I log of : ).

So I know that there is A LOT that I need to work on to even become aware of the truthfullness of the church...but I am more worried about my wife.

She does almost everything she is supposed to and she is having doubts.

We have struggled over the past many years with our relationship and I know that does not help the situation. We are also financially struggling and have been throughout almost our entire marriage.

We both don't have a degree so getting that job that pays better is virtually difficult to do...but we both are attending school right now to change that. She is almost done with her education and will have a degree to be a math teacher in about 2 years. I am attending college part time right now and will attend FT once she is done. I am seeking a degree in Human Resources/Business Management.

I know it hurts her and sometimes makes her angry that I can not provide her the life that she may need (house, clothing, food and paying bills without worrying), but for the past 9 years she has been able to stay at home and care for the family and the home. Yes we have asked and received help many times during those 10 years, but she has been home.

I work hard at my job and do the best that I can. I have made mistakes in past jobs where last year I was unemployed for 7 months, nothing major just a dumb mistake that I learned from. That really took a tole on our marriage and that is where we started to seek counsling. We did that for a couple of months.

We came really close to seperating and the thought of divorce has crossed her mind a couple of times. But she has told me it is not what she wants. Do I fully believe her.....I can not say I do or don't..but she is my wife and I have to trust her until she disearns my trust.

During our counsling I learned some things that I never knew effected her so much that it got to the point of counsling. One of the main things is that she felt like an object when it came to intimacy. I had no inention of having her feel that way and changed my ways.

She told me once that she heard her friends talk about the blessing fo eternal families and that they could share all aspects of marriage (including intimacy) in the eternities. She told me that it scared her and it is something that she does not want.

She still has intimacy issues and I respect her on that and do not ask for anything or seek that type of attention. I am hoping that one day we can be more intimate again..but it is no longer a priority for me.

We have a difficult time just spending time together and it just seems blah. We do attempt to go on dates at least twice a month but at times it seems odd and like we are on a blind date.

I know that I may seem that I am rambling and that this may seem like 2 subjects to be answered in one, but I think it fair that you know all the underlying things that are in play.

I am looking for testimonies/experiences/talks/books (not just the bible or BOM) that I can help my wife with along with myself or anyone else out there that may have these same feelings.

Now please take note that I am not looking for the sugar coated answers...."I just know" or "I have prayed about it", I have heard that way to many times and it just does not click with me.

I am also not looking for those who may wish to show me that the church is not true. I know that this forum allows other faiths to come and talk about religous beliefs, but I am not in the mood for debates.

I have heard everything why the church is not true, eveything from the we contradict the bible, that we are not christians, to we have been brain washed. So please do not attempt those types of conversations for I will not respond to them.

I am again looking for why the church is true, so I can take BOTH of them to the Lord and get my own answer. So this is why I am looking for the positive..because I already know the negative.

So any help would be much appreciated.

{breath}

[skippy740]

I will encourage you to think about a different definition of the word "true".

Bear with me a moment here.

If you take "true" as a noun: 1. Truth or reality. 2. Proper alignment or adjustment: out of true.

If you understand "true" as a verb: Bring (an object, wheel, or other construction) into the exact shape, alignment, or position required.

In this case, true (as a verb) would be in bringing us and the Church more and more into alignment with the truth of the will of the Lord concerning us.

This means that as you continue down to learn more about the gospel and to "try the seed with a particle of faith" (Alma 32)... you are 'truing' yourselves towards the gospel.

It is a process. Work the process, but let the process take its course.

[skippy740]

Also, I myself, have ADD and currently not taking any medication. I don't read my scriptures every day. I fulfill my calling to the best of my ability, and I do a LOT on here (too addicting) and on facebook LDS pages... so I get my gospel focus in those ways.

Stop being so hard on yourself for not "measuring up to the families in the Ensign". The church is NOT a museum for saints, but a hospital for sinners.

It's a rough thing in LDS culture. We don't talk about our past sins openly. We don't talk about our struggles. We ALL have them, but it's not in our culture at our meetings. This can create a false sense that "everyone else is doing great... but me." It simply isn't true, and it's a negative mindset (or the devil) that is planting those thoughts of inferiority within you.

Let Church be a refuge from the world. The temple too, when you can attend.

Do what you can. Do the best you can. We can all do the best we can with the circumstances we have.

Breathe. It'll be okay.

[jerome1232]

The church is NOT a museum for saints, but a hospital for sinners.

oh, I like that one.

[rameumptom]

One of the key things the Book of Mormon teaches is: Remember.

Try and remember the times when you have had spiritual experiences. Try to re-experience those moments through remembering them.

Second, the concept of the temple is not to get caught up in confusing things, but in a couple concepts: the temple is where we practice and learn to enter into God's presence, the temple is a place of peace and personal revelation.

If you focus on these two things, you will strengthen your testimonies. You do not have to have a testimony of everything. At least not right now. I've been a member for 37 years, and still don't have a testimony of all things.

But I do have a testimony of God and Jesus. I have a testimony that there are prophets who are special witnesses of Jesus Christ. I have a testimony of the teachings in the Bible and Book of Mormon.

[MarginOfError]

This might be an answer you wouldn't expect. I'm a faithful, active, committed member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. How do I know the Church is true?

I don't.

Similar to what Ram was talking about, the sum of all the experiences I've had with the Church lead to me believe it is true, and I am confident in that faith. But I certainly wouldn't say I know that it is the one true Church of Christ. And I'm completely okay with that.

Faith, by it's very nature, implies the existence of doubt. So take a minute and think of it a little differently. Based on the experiences you've had, do you believe that the Church is true? Start there and see if that changes your outlook.

[edgar13]

you will know thats the church is true due to many circumstances, and it is the will of the lord to let you know of what is true, it is just a calling that will happen that are not expected.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi GeoRioux,

That's a bundle of issues there. Lots of folks struggling with the various things you mention - but when you struggle with all of them at the same time, it can seem a bit overpowering. I'll just address your first question.

Your question "how do you know the church is true?"

Short answer: God told me it was. Directly and unmistakably. There are a ton of mormons who go through life as mormon, without such a confirmation. It sounds like you and your wife have been doing this, and it's no longer working for either of you. That's certainly understandable.

Long answer: Here are the details:

So, I had two scriptures:

Alma 32:27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.

Moroni 10:4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

The first scripture promises a slowly evolving process from faith to knowledge, through the assumption that if it looks good, and acts good, and produces good fruit, then it is good. Not really enough to base a testimony on, in my opinion. But Moroni promised something else - "he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.". That sounded a little more like it. So, when I looked at the verse, it laid out my side of the bargain:

1- "And when ye shall receive these things" - Before it would work, I had to read the Book of Mormon. But more than read it, to "receive" it. I had to internalize it - deeply reading for meaning, more than just a cursory glance. Not a critical reading, looking for faults. I had to read it, with the notion that it very well might be exactly what it claimes to be - scripture. True. The word of God. A literal history of people who literally lived.

2- "I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true"

So, I had to pray. Not just pray, but pray in the name of Christ. That means, I had to be worthy of his name. The guy who owns The Simsons brand, will let any amount of stupid garbage bear the name - Bart Simpson toothpaste, cheap flimsy Homer travel mugs, stupid T-shirts make out of inferior materials, whatever. But Jesus is more choosy. If you are going to bear his name, you need to be following his teachings.

This is possible to do, without actually believing in him. After all, I follow some of Sun-Tzu's "art of war" notions, but I don't believe he is a god, and I also don't share his faith. The best advice for a happy marriage, the notion that I've used as a foundation for mine, came from a drunk Tongan I met in an alleyway one night. I follow that advice daily, yet I'm not a big fan of the guy who gave it to me.

So, to take upon myself the name of Christ, I had to do and be a couple of main things:

* Not sinning

* Loving my neighbor

* Desiring to know a God I could love

I did not have to be perfect, I figured it was a matter of heart. It wasn't how close to my destination I was, it mattered only that my compass was pointed in the right direction, and I was following it. Yes, there was some doubt about what the compass was pointing to - was it true north, or just wishful thinking. But that didn't matter - I was just trying to satisfy this part of the scripture - and be able to pray in the name of Christ.

So, I prayed. I prayed nightly, starting about halfway through the book. I prayed fervently. My prayers were short and simple: "Dear Heavenly Father, if thou exist, thou knowest my heart. Thou knowest I am sincere. I desire to know of the truthfulness of this work. Please show it to me. In the name of thy son, Jesus Christ, amen". Simple, plain, sincere, over and over again.

3- "and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ,"

Ok - 3 requirements - and I had to have all 3 of them. In years past, I had read the BoM and prayed in the name of Christ, and got nothing. I was missing real intent - I figured I wouldn't get an answer, and praying was a way of proving my guess true.

It's about where my heart is. It needs to be sincere, not with an ulterior motive, burdened by unrepented of sin, or trying to get something else out of the experience. My intent had to be true. No faith, no promise.

I can't impress enough on everyone, the importance of these 3 items. They're related, but if you are missing one, don't be expecting anything. If you are having a hard time figuring out where you are on these 3, you're probably not there.

Throughout the process, I was comfortable with my part of the bargain. It was like showing up for a test being very, very well prepared - there's a confidence based on the fact that you know what you're doing. I wasn't lying to myself, or bending any rules, or figuring out the least I could do to satisfy the bare minimum - I was there, and there solidly.

I did not believe in God - but I didn't have to. I just had to want to. I was not setting aside doubts - they held the center stage.

4- "He will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."

So, what can I say - it happened.

It happened at work, where I was a candy maker, with an arm covered with chocolate. (If you've ever been to a fancy hotel, or taken a fancy cruise, and there's a chocolate mint on your pillow - that's what I used to make by hand.)

The details? Here is where I need to be a bit vague, in order to avoid embarassing stuff about someone who is not me. I was working away quietly, thinking about reality, wondering if I'd ever know what it was, and thinking about an unresolved situation in my life. I was at a crossroads, only tangentially related to my quest to discover the truth about the Book of Mormon. As I thought about this crossroads, trying to discern what to make out of the facts before me, I thought something along the lines of "Well, this pattern indicates that things are moving in the right direction... "

And it happened.

Words can't really explain it - they can only approximate it.

It was unmistakable, not a warm fuzzy, not an emotional reaction.

I had my answer. It was "yes".

It was a strong, internal sensation. Not a feeling - I wasn't happy or sad. The best word is "confirmation" . And what was it confirming? Many things. It was confirming that yes, I had just said something true - the pattern I was looking at was indeed moving in the right direction. It confirmed that there WAS a right direction. It confirmed that this notion of reality that I had looked at - this bizarre tale of prophets and plates and revelations and restorations, had the added benefit of being true.

A few side details:

* The first thing that dawned on me was, "My gosh, this is the Holy Ghost speaking with me!" The second thought that came a few minutes later was "My gosh, I've felt this before!" In one or two of the most stressful times of my life, I had felt that sensation before. I had written off the experience at the time, but realization flooded me - the Lord had stood by me, even while I was inactive.

* Other people tell me their conversion stories, and they are often different. My Bishop, as a young man, was watching a sunset, and said a brief prayer "thank you, God", and heard the words as clear as day "You'll be all right - I'll always take care of you". My experience was different. Another guy from my ward had been desiring to feel the Love of Christ - and felt it unexpectedly when he stood up to shake hands with a brother from another ward. They stood there with clasped hands, with tears flowing down both their faces. My experience was different - there was not a lot of emotion (although I pretty soon felt exhilleration, as it sank in what was happening). My wife's grandfather was on a bar stool 40 years ago, having left the church, and was almost knocked to the floor by the words "Wayne, why hast thou forsaken me?" I heard no words. The energy and the impact was internal to me, not external like it was to him.

* I have since felt this impression, this confirmation, quite often. As I returned to church in full force, keeping my baptismal covenant, the Holy Ghost has been, at points in my life, my constant companion.

[Resident]

I can't reiterate enough about what has been said here about taking your time to pray, read the scriptures with intent and to truly be committed to the gospel. I find that when I approach all gospel related activities in my life with desire and an effort above and beyond the minimum, the Lord blesses me with an even greater thirst to seek gospel related things in my life, and an even greater desire to be a generally good person.

With that said, I knew that this church was true when I was 16 because of 1 specific moment. I was on a church history trip that summer and we had stopped at the Newell K Whitney store. We were taking a tour, and me and my friends were being quite irreverent and could honestly care less about the tour. We were eventually funneled into a room upstairs, where we quickly learned that it was used as the "school of the prophets". The sister missionaries giving us the tour then asked us to sing a hymn in the room before they would go into an in-depth description of the room. All I could think was, "singing, really? I am TOO COOL to sing right now"...I had 0 intentions of changing my attitude, and many of my friends were rolling their eyes at the idea of having to sing. Well, my life changed as we began to sing "The Spirit of God"...I had never, ever felt such an overwhelming amount of love, emotion and confirmation that God existed, and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was the one and only true church. I couldn't contain my tears. It was as if a dam had burst. Worried about what my friends would think, I looked over, and they too were sobbing. A couple of hours after that experience, we finally opened up about the experience, and we all agreed that it was the most obvious confirmation of the Spirit that any of us had ever felt or experienced. Sadly, just as individuals who have had overwhelmingly obvious confirmations of God in both the Bible and Book of Mormon, I left the church for about 3 years and made terrible decisions in the process. However, I never forgot what happened that day, and could never deny the power of God, Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost after such a remarkable experience.

[HiJolly]

Earlier today I had a talk with my wife and she was in tears for she is struggling with something and I can understand why because I am struggling with it also.

She is starting to wonder if the church is true or not. She says that she is just not sure..she is accepting of many of the things that the church teaches us. She says her prayers both day and night. She reads her scriptures, she atteds all her church meetings and fullfills her calling to the best of her ability.

You are both students. And unless you're attending Bob Jones University, you're dealing with being immersed in a secular environment. This is a transition (for most LDS) that can be very shocking.

At home I was trained to live as a faithful, or faith-world-view person. Want to know the truth? Study, pray, and get an 'answer' that is subjective and true. Sometimes, it can be world-view changing forever.

But in the University setting, this simply is foolishness. Instead, if you want to know what's true, you must trust no authority figure, trust no emotions, carefully examine the physical evidence and then you'll be close to but never really at absolute truth. In science, there is never the ultimate truth, only the latest truth.

• Isaiah 5:20

  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

That's how divided these two thought systems are. But to claim that one is 'bad' and one is 'good', is a real problem. It's the wrong way to approach the apparent contradiction (which there isn't).

In the first paradigm, we learn how to be happy and fulfilled in our lives, how to be kind, loving, generous and joyous. In the second paradigm, we learn how to build cell phones, airplanes, nuclear warheads and travel to the moon.

They are BOTH correct approaches to life. We must not take away one and feed the other exclusively, or we'll never reach completeness as humans.

She does not attend the temple as much as she should and I am sure that may help her..but she does not understand the temple. She says at times she is really confused on what is going on...why it is being done..and at times she has gone she has had a feeling of just running out.

The temple is purely symbolic ritual and is designed to bring you to inner spiritual fulfillment with the assistance of the subconscious mind, in connection with primarily your right-hemisphere brain. The linking of suggestion and inference to 'truth', the inflow of inspiration, will occur as you honestly & sincerely participate. Eventually you can come to know what the endowment is, and through it you can grow through the endowment into something totally amazing in your spiritual life.

I really want to help her...and myself to have a true testimony that the church is true. We both are accepting of the teachings..but don't have a testimony of the truthfullness.

The testimony comes as your actions agree with your life-long beliefs. It takes time, but work at it and see what comes to you. Thank God for repentance!

The Holy Ghost can not only lead you to truth, and confirm that truth to you; but He can also lead you to know what it is that you believe that is NOT true. Trust in God. He will lead you as you do His will.

There are many colloquial traditions or folk-beliefs within the Church that are not true. Have faith in God, do what is right, and watch for the guidance that will come. Always test what comes. Look to the fruits of the Church in all things.

I am looking for testimonies/experiences/talks/books (not just the bible or BOM) that I can help my wife with along with myself or anyone else out there that may have these same feelings.

Now please take note that I am not looking for the sugar coated answers...."I just know" or "I have prayed about it", I have heard that way to many times and it just does not click with me.

I am again looking for why the church is true, so I can take BOTH of them to the Lord and get my own answer. So this is why I am looking for the positive..because I already know the negative.

So any help would be much appreciated.

{breath}

My comments come from what I have learned in life, not from what I have been taught by men or tradition. Best wishes to you both!

HiJolly

Edited April 26, 2012 by HiJolly
spelling

[mhsmd]

I'm having trouble myself right now. I was raised on the east coast, and recently moved to a LDS school out west. HOLY COW!! The way that believe out here us so different! I feel like what they teach is the same, but they can use those teachings to justify stuff that I think is really wrong. It is a logic problem for me. Perhaps that is her problem as well? It seems that may be your wife's issue. She should talk with the bishop about this. He can probably clear things up for her, especially about the temple.

[GeoRioux]

Had another talk with my wife tonight and after reading your responces, I began to ponder a bit about my wife.

My wife is a serious over acheiver...in everything that she does. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but it can be stressfull in your life, at least I think so and here is my reasoning. Let me know your thoughts.

I will not go much into schooling because to me it is different as it may pertain to leading a gospel life and since my original question pertains on knowing the church is true I will continue with that......

I have told my wife and again told her tonight that she always seems to strives bit more than anyone else that I see to be that "perfect saint"...and I always wondered what her thought process was on it so I asked her and this is how she explained it to me.

She does want to be perfect and the only way that she can see her being perfect is being so far to the right of things that you will never be in the grey area or even close to it. So when you do fail/fall you are still in the "light".

Now please dont get me wrong I understand that if you always work towards that it is easier to continue forward from where you left off and repentance is probably easier.

My thoughts on how she does that it is takes a humongous toll on her life that she pushes herself so hard and then when things don't go as planned or the blessing dont come, she thinks that she has done something wrong or did not try hard enought to be perfect. I also told her that there is only one person that has ever been perfect and will probably be the only person that will have ever been perfect and that is the Jesus Christ.

We just need to do the very best that we can and leave the rest up to Him.

As I heard her tell me her process a thought entered my mind that may or may not be directed for her, but I felt impressed to tell her anyway.

I told her that she is doing all this scripture studying, praying and going to church and doing her calling...but is she doing it for HER....or is she doing it for the Lord. I tried to impress on her that may she has been doing all this for the wrong reasons, not that she was being shelfess, but that she was doing it out of obligation or acceptance that this is what she has been told to do to receive answers.

I also asked her to pray to Heavenly Father and ask Him is what I am doing right, have I done enough, are you pleased with what I have done. Ask Him if I have done well in your eyes, please allow me to feel that warm feeling or feel the spirit again that I know I have done well.

I know that I am the last person that should being talking like that because I am far from where she is on church going or scripture or prayers...but it was something that just impressed me greatly and it was a quick and almost fleeting momement that entered my head.

These have been my feelings today on her situation with the church being true.

Another thing that I am hoping is that these past few weeks have been very stressful on her with school. This semester is her biggest semester that she will probably have to take with school ....18 units. And the classes are all higher level math classes.

Today she took a final that she is pretty sure that she did not pass and this is not like her...she has been wonderful at all her tests. She came home dissappointed in herself and now she is selfdoubting herself on her other tests that are coming up. She is finding it difficult to even understand some of the things that she is very good at in her other classes.

I am praying that at the end of next week when all her finals are done a mantle will be lifted off of her and she will be able to concentrate more on her spiritual side and maybe have her heart filled with the love of the Savior again.

There more that I would love to say that may help us..but at this point I will leave it at this and await your thoughts. Maybe tomorrow I will add more!

Thanks again for all your wonderful thoughts and support..it has helped me think and ponder..and that is where I do best. It is where I feel that I can communicate with my Heavenly Father in my heart.

HOLD TO THE ROD!

[Hala401]

Think first about the kind of person that Heavenly Father has made you through the Church. The doubts about the BOM pale in the light of being pleasing to Heavenly Father. Think on your love for him, and the fact that you are loving and kind to others. Believe me when I tell you that there are lots of people who call on God, and even name the name of Jesus Christ who are NOT loving to others.

The most impressive thing about the Church is that they rescued me! My experience with the Holy Spirit that day on the road through Kirtland, Ohio was the start of a series of astonishing events that has not stopped even yet. It all began on March 13th, 2011, a Sunday evening. I was driving on the road through Kirtland, and saw this curious looking church. Then something extremely compelling made me pull over. For me it might as well have been someone sitting on a white horse, and holding a sword commanding me.

I looked up Kirtland on my Android and in a series of what I now recognize as Holy Spirit driven events, I wound up at the Stake center there, and women there directed me to the Historical Center. I wish I could tell those women thank you. At the Historical center, I very reluctantly began a relationship with Sr Missionaries that would ultimately lead me inexplicably to become a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Joseph Smith as a Prophet, and the Book of Mormon were not much of a stretch for me because as a devout Muslim, I already believed in a prophet, Muhammad PBUH, and in the Holy Quran. For a very long time, I had wondered why God had stopped talking to us, his creation?

Evangelicals believe that the Bible is a closed book, and they even interpret the last paragraph of the Book of Revelation to mean that Heavenly Father closed it. Years later, I realized that read correctly, those sentences only close off the Book of Revelation, not the whole Bible.

Then, just recently I realized that the Bible was not even complete as a Book until John Wycliffe, in 1300, translated it from Latin to a language that others could read. So, before then, the common person had no access to the Bible, and were at the debatable mercies of those who practiced priestcraft.

What at first sounded to me like more idle hate talk is now very real to me. The great apostasy has become very real to me. From one who was rescued from certain death this church is true.

Had my experience not happened that day, my future would have remained very doubtful.

My experiences since I began to study with the Sisters continue to underline for me, that Heavenly Father loves us.

[Timpman]

Challenge to the read the Book of Mormon in a week. Then BAM!@#! her testimony will be back.

[skippy740]

She doesn't believe Christ. She is trying to save herself. It cannot be done.

This book is a great one to help put it all in perspective. The Kindle edition is only $6 and it's a good, short read. I think it'll really help.

In fact, read it together! It'll bring you BOTH to a better understanding of Christ as a Savior. Not just believing IN Christ (that He lived and took upon Himself the sins of the world), but that He can save and heal each of us.

Amazon.com: Believing Christ the Parable of the Bicycle and Other Good News (9780875796345): Stephen E Robinson: Books

[theoriginalavatar]

Earlier today I had a talk with my wife and she was in tears for she is struggling with something and I can understand why because I am struggling with it also.

She is starting to wonder if the church is true or not. She says that she is just not sure..she is accepting of many of the things that the church teaches us. She says her prayers both day and night. She reads her scriptures, she atteds all her church meetings and fullfills her calling to the best of her ability.

She does not attend the temple as much as she should and I am sure that may help her..but she does not understand the temple. She says at times she is really confused on what is going on...why it is being done..and at times she has gone she has had a feeling of just running out.

I really want to help her...and myself to have a true testimony that the church is true. We both are accepting of the teachings..but don't have a testimony of the truthfullness.

As for me I am certain that the reason why I don't have a testimony of the truthfullness of the church is because the only thing that I really do (when I can get away from work) is go to church.

I do not read the scriptures, attend the temple, say my prayers (both personal and spousal), I don't do my HT. I do fulfill my calling the best I can, well at least my stake calling, my ward calling I am not doing much there.

I have ADD (not under medication but that is another story) and I just find it hard to not get distracted and keeping commitments on doing those above things. Just like here i am hyperfocused on seeing help, where I need to be at least reading or praying...maybe I will remember when I log of : ).

So I know that there is A LOT that I need to work on to even become aware of the truthfullness of the church...but I am more worried about my wife.

She does almost everything she is supposed to and she is having doubts.

We have struggled over the past many years with our relationship and I know that does not help the situation. We are also financially struggling and have been throughout almost our entire marriage.

We both don't have a degree so getting that job that pays better is virtually difficult to do...but we both are attending school right now to change that. She is almost done with her education and will have a degree to be a math teacher in about 2 years. I am attending college part time right now and will attend FT once she is done. I am seeking a degree in Human Resources/Business Management.

I know it hurts her and sometimes makes her angry that I can not provide her the life that she may need (house, clothing, food and paying bills without worrying), but for the past 9 years she has been able to stay at home and care for the family and the home. Yes we have asked and received help many times during those 10 years, but she has been home.

I work hard at my job and do the best that I can. I have made mistakes in past jobs where last year I was unemployed for 7 months, nothing major just a dumb mistake that I learned from. That really took a tole on our marriage and that is where we started to seek counsling. We did that for a couple of months.

We came really close to seperating and the thought of divorce has crossed her mind a couple of times. But she has told me it is not what she wants. Do I fully believe her.....I can not say I do or don't..but she is my wife and I have to trust her until she disearns my trust.

During our counsling I learned some things that I never knew effected her so much that it got to the point of counsling. One of the main things is that she felt like an object when it came to intimacy. I had no inention of having her feel that way and changed my ways.

She told me once that she heard her friends talk about the blessing fo eternal families and that they could share all aspects of marriage (including intimacy) in the eternities. She told me that it scared her and it is something that she does not want.

She still has intimacy issues and I respect her on that and do not ask for anything or seek that type of attention. I am hoping that one day we can be more intimate again..but it is no longer a priority for me.

We have a difficult time just spending time together and it just seems blah. We do attempt to go on dates at least twice a month but at times it seems odd and like we are on a blind date.

I know that I may seem that I am rambling and that this may seem like 2 subjects to be answered in one, but I think it fair that you know all the underlying things that are in play.

I am looking for testimonies/experiences/talks/books (not just the bible or BOM) that I can help my wife with along with myself or anyone else out there that may have these same feelings.

Now please take note that I am not looking for the sugar coated answers...."I just know" or "I have prayed about it", I have heard that way to many times and it just does not click with me.

I am also not looking for those who may wish to show me that the church is not true. I know that this forum allows other faiths to come and talk about religous beliefs, but I am not in the mood for debates.

I have heard everything why the church is not true, eveything from the we contradict the bible, that we are not christians, to we have been brain washed. So please do not attempt those types of conversations for I will not respond to them.

I am again looking for why the church is true, so I can take BOTH of them to the Lord and get my own answer. So this is why I am looking for the positive..because I already know the negative.

So any help would be much appreciated.

{breath}

You and your wife will never know, unless you know. I am sure that sounds stupid and unhelpful, but it is the only truthful way I know how to say it.

It does ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD WHATSOEVER to attend church, read your scriptures, go to the temple, etc. if your heart isn't in it and you don't have a desire to know.

I know a lot of people like to hold our hand and tell us that everything will be ok, but this is largely unhelpful. We have church and callings and friends and even our spouse to help us along the way, but at the end of the day, our salvation is our own responsiblility.

That probably sounds harsh, and I don't mean to sound uncaring at all, but we each have to figure it out for ourselves. When we were baptised...when we made covenents in the temple...we each, individually, made commitments to stay the course and follow through.

No one is going to "force" our way into heaven. It is up to us.

God loves us. He wants us to find Him. But he will never force us. To do so is counter to His plan of happiness.

Sometimes we have to just "man up," so to speak, and realize our divine potential.

I apologize if this sounds harsh, but I have gone through too much and experienced too much despair in my life to tiptoe around the truth.

We must each find our own path and way to God. He loves us. He died for us. He, alone, is our ticket to salvation. Nothing we can do or say can take His place. We must want to accept His sacrifice for us.

Edited April 26, 2012 by theoriginalavatar