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mhsmd

Married, thinking about leaving

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Ironically, I've posted quite a few replies to other threads telling others to stick it out and work through it. But my main reason for joining this forum was to get advice from LDS church members about my marriage, especially what to do about it. (I know I'm not perfect, and that I have a temper. I have hit him with my wimpy lack of upper body strength, because he tends to ignore me when I bring up any issues in our relationship. And maybe we just don't work together in a marriage.)

I dated my husband for about a year before marrying him. I knew that he was spoiled and irresponsible, but darn it if he didn't love me unconditionally and treat me like absolute gold! This was such a change from my previous (and only other) boyfriend, who had treated my like dirt enough for me to feel comfortable calling him an emotional abuser. I feel for my husband because he was so completely different from what I had experienced from my ex (and my father). I though that men just weren't like that. I did break off our first engagement because I felt he wasn't mature enough to handle supporting a family. We got back together, and I decided to marry him after one prayer. I knew I loved him, but had such reservations about marrying a man who hadn't gone on a mission and who was just plain irresponsible. To make a long story short, I got the answer to my prayer two days later when I got an email telling me that my deposit on single student housing was being refunded because the house was being remodeled; and this was about a month before the semester started. I still had reservations, but I trusted that the Lord knew what he was doing. My hesitance was not bolstered when I told my friends. One was actually excited when I told them. Most of them had been trying to get me to go out to school and find someone else.

Fast forward seven months.

We're married, and I've survived two semester of school while married. My grades have been in the tank. I told him that school would be my full time job, and that he would need to support the family financially since he wasn't admitted as a student yet. He has been working. I think he has maxed out at about 16 hours a week. Right now he could be working 35 hours a week, but chooses not to because it's "too stressful". He wakes up, goes straight to the living room, and turns on the PS3. He comes home from work and turns on the PS3. I try to get him to help around the house, to call people for errands or to apply for food stamps, . . . he just tells me that he works and I don't. Even when I was in school, he only cared that I didn't have a job. When I did get a job, he only cared that he still made more money (by about $20). I found us another apartment that was cheaper, and he complains that it doesn't have a dishwasher so he won't do the dishes. I am looking for a job. We're borrowing money from my parents every few months just to cover rent and utilities, even now that our rent is $200 lower. I do all the budgeting, and he is always asking to spend (or not asking to and just spending) money on his games. Our expenses can't get any lower. I feel like he needs to grow up and take responsibility for this family. He seems to only care about his half.

I am tempted to move out as soon as I secure an income of my own. I have even been tempted to ask my parents for a plane ticket home so that I can go back to my summer job there. I am really quite sick of his selfishness. It doesn't help that I recently went off Effexor (for depression and anxiety); I am wondering of the Effexor just made me patient enough to deal with all his crap. I am literally screaming at him two or three times a week. I just feel exhausted, like I am done hauling him out of bed for church, done telling him to stop playing video games on Sundays, done telling him to work more hours to support us, done defending the amount of work I do around the house while he's sitting on his butt. He claimes to be sick about three days every week, which usually leads to skipping church and missing at least one day of work each week (mind you, working every day means he's only working about 16 hours a week right now).

I don't know that I want to divorce him. If he could just grow up and stop expecting me to be his mom, then I would love him again. As it is, I have no interest in having children with him. I do not want my children to grow up and be like him; not to mention that I don't want to have to take care of a child in addition to taking care of him! We've been to counseling (where I felt bad, b/c the counselor was always telling my husband that he needed to shape up), and the only time my husband actually shapes up is after I tell him that I am going to leave. Then he shapes up for a couple week, just long enough for me to change my mind.

Sorry about the novel. I just don't know what to do. I don't feel like I can go to my friends or family about this because I spent so long defending my choice to marry him, and if I decide to stay with him then I don't want them to see my marriage that way. We're meeting with our new bishop tonight about his past addiction and our current goal to be sealed in the temple is August (which I am secretly not so sure I want to do), and I might bring up this problem with him. I am just so afraid that my husband will change long enough to change my mind. I don't want that sort of cycle to continue for the rest of my life. I love him, on some level I know I do, I just don't think that I want to spend the rest of my life with a man that is acting to selfish and lazy. I don't think he can change (my father never did) and I won't be sealed to or have children with who he is now. Does anyone have some sort of experience that can help me here? I feel so alone in this decision, but I also know that I can't be objective.

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That's what I think. But words aren't doing it. I am so afraid that separation will lead to divorce, and I don't want to lose him. He forgives me for everything, loves me unconditionally, just doesn't show the ability to support or raise a functional family.

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Does your school offer free counseling? It might be wise even for you to take up that route. I worked once with a woman who had a marriage very similar to what you were describing... except it sounds like your husband treats you better than hers did, which is why I support saving this one. She delayed having children for nearly a decade because she thought the guy too irresponsible. Kind of a messy situation. Looking back, she wished she could have approached the problems differently.

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I think you're very wise to not have children with this man until these issues are resolved. Please make sure you're taking at least 2 precautions to make sure that doesn't happen.

I'm not a big advocate of divorce, but if he's not willing to man up and act like an adult, I'd say do it while you're young and childless, and be really really really careful next time.

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Yes, we went to counseling last semester. We can't right now because I am off-track, and only full time students can take advantage of the free counseling. I tried doing the Church's counseling service, but my husband wouldn't even discuss what time and place would work so that he would be willing to go. He either didn't answer or rejected my suggestions. I'm the one who just set up an appointment with the school counselor last semester, without telling him. I was actually surprised that he went.

I know there is something to be saved here, which is probably why I am so unsure of what to do. I can only think to try counseling another shot, because it seemed to help in the past.

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I think you're very wise to not have children with this man until these issues are resolved. Please make sure you're taking at least 2 precautions to make sure that doesn't happen.

Ironically, I had to give up hormonal birth control because we can't afford it! The same reason I'm not on Effexor anymore! We are still using a barrier method, though. Your post made me laugh a bit b/c of that. :)

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If there are no children involved, then you have options.

I suggest you tell him you are giving him a 6 month probation period. He needs to be doing his part for 6 months, otherwise you will then pray over leaving him. This is different than his promise that he will change, lasting only a few weeks. You are giving him a specific period of time during which he will need to make long term and permanent changes to who he is, not just a rapid sporadic spasm that does not last.

If after those 6 months, you see real progress that has generally lasted for a while (again, not just a couple weeks), then reassess the relationship. Determine if it requires another 6 month probation, maintenance where it currently is, or that he's a useless basket case.

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Couple of things:

1) Women marry men expecting that they'll change. Then they're surprised when they don't.

2) Men marry women expecting that they won't change, then they're surprised when they do.

Your husband is the same guy he was 8 months ago and this bothers you. You don't really have a right to be upset at him being the same person you agreed to marry him. When you married him, you agreed to marry the person he was.

That said, let's set aside the fact that you're his wife for a moment. He works 16 hours a week while you go to school. If I were his friend(And your wife should be your best friend), I would sit him down and see what his long term goals are. If he has none, then he sounds like he's in depression and needs to be helped with that. With love and patience you should approach it. You married him and now you should work it out.

I will tell you one thing, though: You need to work on your attitude. You hit your husband, then came on here and said you admitted you hit him but that you did it with your 'Wimpy upper body strength'. What if someone male had come on here and said that they hit their wife, but that it was just an open handed slap so it didn't do any real damage? I guarantee you that you would think he was a monster. And he would be.

Don't. Hit. Your. Husband.

It is abuse.

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Oh, I know all about the hypocrisy of spousal abuse. My husband and I have what we and our friends call a fauxbusive relationship. We hit each other occasionally, as a warning that what the other person is doing is extremely not okay and needs to stop or else things will escalate to real problems. He has real, diagnosable learning and behavioral problems. He can't read people's emotions very well, so a gentle hit on the arm is how he knows that I am being serious and it's time to stop. When I absolutely lose my lid, I will hit him in the upper torso in order to get his attention, since he always just shuts down. Yeah, I have a temper, and I've learned that the only way to make him listen when I'm upset is to physically make him pay attention to me. It started when we were dating, due to some of his actions, which is a long story that gets into personal stuff. I always listen when he tells me that I've crossed a line. It is seriously a vital part of communication for us, and I realize that's hard for many people to understand. Most of our friends understand, because he doesn't respond to verbal or body language cues.

I do believe that he is depressed. I have talked to him about this many, many times. He won't do anything about it. I have depression, so I know what he's going through. The problem is that he just doesn't get up and do anything about it, despite all the counseling and talks we've had. He refuses medication b/c he is already at an extremely low weight and he doesn't ever do what his friends and counselors tell him to do in order to get better. His long term goals are . . . ever changing. He doesn't want to be the only person working; he usually wants to work as an artist of some sort, so that makes sense. lol. But he hasn't been working towards those goals at all. I've had to work toward them for him (by applying to school for him, and doing job applications for him) because I refuse to put my life on hold for him. (I'm 24 and still have two years to get my Bachelor's degree. My life was on hold for too long already.)

Now, don't get me wrong. When I married him, he had made leaps and bounds of progress. I wouldn't have married him otherwise. He had moved out of his mom's house, he had become more emotionally and financially independent, he had found a part-time job and was biking/walking a mile uphill to get to that job. How he is acting now is a reversal of the progress he made. He is almost back to the man that he was when I broke off our first engagement. I feel like I sort of need to do that again, by moving out and telling him that he needs to be able to support himself before he can take on the responsibility of a family again.

As for the six month probation . . . We're supposed to be getting sealed in August. I've set time limits before, and he's good by the time the time limit comes up. Then he regresses again. I can't make him get help, but he is pulling me down with him. Going down that path before, for me personally, ended up with me spending three years with my parents while I tried to get myself together enough to be around people, much less get a steady job and finish school.

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You hit each other occasionally? And because he's got a learning disability he can't learn through anything other than his wife's corporal punishment?

I withdraw everything previously said. You should both get severe emotional help, then try to figure out how to save your marriage. The first thing that has to happen is you have to stop hitting him and he has to stop hitting you. Period.

To state that your husband is incomprehending enough that the only way through to him is with assault suggests you don't know how serious it is. I can't believe I have to say this in this day and age: If your husband has trouble relating to you, punching him is not a valid solution. That is not 'Fauxbusive'. It is abusive, quite simply.

Oh, I know all about the hypocrisy of spousal abuse. My husband and I have what we and our friends call a fauxbusive relationship. We hit each other occasionally, as a warning that what the other person is doing is extremely not okay and needs to stop or else things will escalate to real problems. He has real, diagnosable learning and behavioral problems. He can't read people's emotions very well, so a gentle hit on the arm is how he knows that I am being serious and it's time to stop. When I absolutely lose my lid, I will hit him in the upper torso in order to get his attention, since he always just shuts down. Yeah, I have a temper, and I've learned that the only way to make him listen when I'm upset is to physically make him pay attention to me. It started when we were dating, due to some of his actions, which is a long story that gets into personal stuff. I always listen when he tells me that I've crossed a line. It is seriously a vital part of communication for us, and I realize that's hard for many people to understand. Most of our friends understand, because he doesn't respond to verbal or body language cues.

I do believe that he is depressed. I have talked to him about this many, many times. He won't do anything about it. I have depression, so I know what he's going through. The problem is that he just doesn't get up and do anything about it, despite all the counseling and talks we've had. He refuses medication b/c he is already at an extremely low weight and he doesn't ever do what his friends and counselors tell him to do in order to get better. His long term goals are . . . ever changing. He doesn't want to be the only person working; he usually wants to work as an artist of some sort, so that makes sense. lol. But he hasn't been working towards those goals at all. I've had to work toward them for him (by applying to school for him, and doing job applications for him) because I refuse to put my life on hold for him. (I'm 24 and still have two years to get my Bachelor's degree. My life was on hold for too long already.)

Now, don't get me wrong. When I married him, he had made leaps and bounds of progress. I wouldn't have married him otherwise. He had moved out of his mom's house, he had become more emotionally and financially independent, he had found a part-time job and was biking/walking a mile uphill to get to that job. How he is acting now is a reversal of the progress he made. He is almost back to the man that he was when I broke off our first engagement. I feel like I sort of need to do that again, by moving out and telling him that he needs to be able to support himself before he can take on the responsibility of a family again.

As for the six month probation . . . We're supposed to be getting sealed in August. I've set time limits before, and he's good by the time the time limit comes up. Then he regresses again. I can't make him get help, but he is pulling me down with him. Going down that path before, for me personally, ended up with me spending three years with my parents while I tried to get myself together enough to be around people, much less get a steady job and finish school.

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I'm not going to defend what my husband and I know works for us. If I've gone too far, he tells me. If he has gone too far, I tell him. We don't have a problem with a little fauxbuse because it is what has worked for us for a year and a half.

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I don't know if this advice is considered good, but if it were me, i would leave and tell my husband I might come back if he shows (for a six month period) that he an earn money and take care of an apartment (dishes included) and be active at church. Then I might start "dating" him again, to see if his responsiblitity continues. I would NOT divorce him or get a legal seperation. I would NOT date or look at other men, I would just give him a long hard wake up call. I donno, that's just me. I did this with my ex, to an extent, since we already had kids, it was a little different. He also had other major issues like cheating and drugs, so that part is different. But I think a big wake up call might help you to see things clear, and him to get his rear end in gear!

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I realize that you are unhappy in your marriage right now, but don't contribute the ever-growing percentage of LDS divorces. You are not in a situation that warrants divorce. Yes, he has immature things he does that drive you crazy, and you are not perfect, either. Show him the same understanding and forgiving heart that you want heaven to show you. Remember your marriage commitments. TALK TO HIM, lovingly and calmly. Go to marriage counseling, if you need to. But unless he is cheating on you or abusing you, then divorce should not even be something you consider right now. Work though your problems.

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I think you're very wise to not have children with this man until these issues are resolved. Please make sure you're taking at least 2 precautions to make sure that doesn't happen.

I'm not a big advocate of divorce, but if he's not willing to man up and act like an adult, I'd say do it while you're young and childless, and be really really really careful next time.

I agree here. I have been married for 25 years and I once again asked my husband to cut the cable and spend more time with me just this morning and he said he would not cut the cable. I told him I am thinking of moving out because I am for the first time attempting to take control of my life that I do not like because I take second burner to his tv/computer games. I don't know if I have the courage to do it, the only reason I hesitate is because of the children (2 at home 14 &16) 3 moved out.

Your relationship mimics mine to a T. I remember being pregnant with baby #3 and working 3 jobs while he did not work. Do not have children with him now for sure.

I believe the chances of him changing are super duper slim. You may want to get out while you can, this is not a marriage, you deserve better than this.

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I realize that you are unhappy in your marriage right now, but don't contribute the ever-growing percentage of LDS divorces. You are not in a situation that warrants divorce. Yes, he has immature things he does that drive you crazy, and you are not perfect, either. Show him the same understanding and forgiving heart that you want heaven to show you. Remember your marriage commitments. TALK TO HIM, lovingly and calmly. Go to marriage counseling, if you need to. But unless he is cheating on you or abusing you, then divorce should not even be something you consider right now. Work though your problems.

He is abusing you in my opinion. He is taking advantage of you, I do not have faith in men like this changing, so unless you can live like this for the rest of your life.... I am sure you have talked to him many times lovingly and calmly and you get so tired of him not listening that you get louder He will likely do what he wants to do when he wants to do it.

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I realize that you are unhappy in your marriage right now, but don't contribute the ever-growing percentage of LDS divorces. You are not in a situation that warrants divorce. Yes, he has immature things he does that drive you crazy, and you are not perfect, either. Show him the same understanding and forgiving heart that you want heaven to show you. Remember your marriage commitments. TALK TO HIM, lovingly and calmly. Go to marriage counseling, if you need to. But unless he is cheating on you or abusing you, then divorce should not even be something you consider right now. Work though your problems.

I don't see contributing to the LDS divorce rate as a reason to stay in a marriage. My individual life and the lives of my future children are far more important to me than a statistic.

Anyways, my husband and I talked to our bishop this past Wednesday. The bishop seemed a little overwhelmed, but I have faith that he can help us. I told my husband and parents that I'm not ready to be sealed to him yet, and that postponement takes a lot of stress off. I feel like I have more time to evaluate whether our love for each other will be enough to make us work together on our marriage.

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My opinion is that members think just because they are members and in "love", twitter paided from Bambi, that everything will be peaches and creme. This is not the case! The Gospel doesn't make love just work. Loving someone takes a lot of effort. I personally think that too many young members get married too quickly. They figure going to the Temple or attending church will give them the marriage they need and want.

Marriage is your single largest decision in your entire life. It dictates what person and people you will spend eternity with! It is that important!

I knew my wife for 10 years! We dated on and off for 10 years! I am not recommending that or saying it is necessary.

As for your husband, he should be preparing to raise a family in what ever capacity he can. As for the video games, I still play them when I have some free time but that is rare! I know that my wife comes first and she knows that I sometimes need a little me time!

I hope things work out for you. If you truly, truly loved this man you would do absolutely everything in your power to help him.

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Good afternoon mhsmd! It is a pleasure to meet you. I hope you are having a great day. :)

First, if what you describe about your husband is true, then I would agree that such behavior appears selfish and immature. Obviously, I don't know all of the facts, so I want to be careful in making any final judgements. This applies to my comments about your husband and you. I simply have your posts to reference and so my comments are based off of them.

The first thing I felt after reading your post was this: If I were your husband, I would sit you down and tell you that you need to please stop nagging me and pestering me about all of my faults.

In your post you mentioned some history with past boyfriend and your father being emotionally abusive. Why did you feel like you were emotionally abused by your ex-boyfriend and father? Are you doing the same thing to your current husband? Because perhaps the answer isn't to be so critical, but, to be more compassionate. A constant stream of criticism will not help build up your husband. It will not help his self-esteem. It will not motivate him. It will not produce the results you very much desire.

The scriptures speak of how we should exercise the priesthood but I think the counsel is just as valid for women as it is to men when it comes to how we should approach our relationship with others. No power or influence ought to be maintained or exercised through unrighteous means, but only "by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy" (D&C 121:41-43).

I know it seems like a one-way street, but that is sometimes the way of charity. We give without expecting anything in return. I can think of no greater power to change men's lives (and women's) than the gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel of Jesus Christ exemplified in your life is a powerful tool to help bringing people up from the muck, so to speak. You are not alone. You have the scriptures. You have prayer. These two concepts are repeated so often and they are heard so often that we might be desensitized, so to speak, to the grand blessings that they are.

I don't know what the answers to your situation are. My post is simply intended to share with you my thoughts and perhaps my thoughts will strike a chord with you and help you to come to some resolution that is right. I do know this, however: Whatever I have done in life has been done best when I have been living the gospel of Jesus Christ and applying its precepts in my life. Obedience qualifies us for the Spirit and the Spirit will enhance everything we do in life. Everything! So, work to have the Spirit in your life and you will be amazed to see how your life changes AND how your husband will change because you have changed for the better. Although this may not "fix" your husband, at least you will be in a position to be guided and directed by the Holy Ghost and then "...shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God..." and "[t]he Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion" (D&C 121:45, 46).

Regards,

Finrock

Edited by Finrock
Spelling and Grammar fixes.

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Adult ADD / ADHD: Signs, Symptoms, Effects, and Treatment

Adults with ADD/ADHD often have difficulty staying focused and attending to daily, mundane tasks.

"He wakes up, goes straight to the living room, and turns on the PS3. He comes home from work and turns on the PS3."

While you’re probably aware that people with ADD/ADHD have trouble focusing on tasks that aren’t interesting to them, you may not know that there’s another side: a tendency to become absorbed in tasks that are stimulating and rewarding. This paradoxical symptom is called hyperfocus.

When you have adult ADD/ADHD, life often seems chaotic and out of control. Staying organized and on top of things can be extremely challenging—as is sorting out what information is relevant for the task at hand, prioritizing the things you need to do, keeping track of tasks and responsibilities, and managing your time.

Many adults with ADD/ADHD have a hard time managing their feelings, especially when it comes to emotions like anger or frustration.

"I felt he wasn't mature enough to handle supporting a family."

Adults with ADD/ADHD often experience career difficulties and feel a strong sense of underachievement. You may have trouble keeping a job, following corporate rules, meeting deadlines, and sticking to a 9-to-5 routine. Managing finances may also be a problem: you may struggle with unpaid bills, lost paperwork, late fees, or debt due to impulsive spending.

"and who was just plain irresponsible" "I feel like he needs to grow up and take responsibility for this family. He seems to only care about his half."

The symptoms of ADD/ADHD can put a strain on your work, love, and family relationships. You may be fed up with constant nagging from loved ones to tidy up, listen more closely, or get organized. Those close to you, on the other hand, may feel hurt and resentful over your perceived “irresponsibility” or “insensitivity.”

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Yeah, he has been diagnosed with ADHD. Part of the problem is that he does nothing about it. He won't go to counseling, won't even consider medication. He got a new job, which is less stressful for him. so things have been a bit better at home.

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Oh, I know all about the hypocrisy of spousal abuse. My husband and I have what we and our friends call a fauxbusive relationship. We hit each other occasionally, as a warning that what the other person is doing is extremely not okay and needs to stop or else things will escalate to real problems. He has real, diagnosable learning and behavioral problems. He can't read people's emotions very well, so a gentle hit on the arm is how he knows that I am being serious and it's time to stop. When I absolutely lose my lid, I will hit him in the upper torso in order to get his attention, since he always just shuts down. Yeah, I have a temper, and I've learned that the only way to make him listen when I'm upset is to physically make him pay attention to me. It started when we were dating, due to some of his actions, which is a long story that gets into personal stuff. I always listen when he tells me that I've crossed a line. It is seriously a vital part of communication for us, and I realize that's hard for many people to understand. Most of our friends understand, because he doesn't respond to verbal or body language cues.

I do believe that he is depressed. I have talked to him about this many, many times. He won't do anything about it. I have depression, so I know what he's going through. The problem is that he just doesn't get up and do anything about it, despite all the counseling and talks we've had. He refuses medication b/c he is already at an extremely low weight and he doesn't ever do what his friends and counselors tell him to do in order to get better. His long term goals are . . . ever changing. He doesn't want to be the only person working; he usually wants to work as an artist of some sort, so that makes sense. lol. But he hasn't been working towards those goals at all. I've had to work toward them for him (by applying to school for him, and doing job applications for him) because I refuse to put my life on hold for him. (I'm 24 and still have two years to get my Bachelor's degree. My life was on hold for too long already.)

Now, don't get me wrong. When I married him, he had made leaps and bounds of progress. I wouldn't have married him otherwise. He had moved out of his mom's house, he had become more emotionally and financially independent, he had found a part-time job and was biking/walking a mile uphill to get to that job. How he is acting now is a reversal of the progress he made. He is almost back to the man that he was when I broke off our first engagement. I feel like I sort of need to do that again, by moving out and telling him that he needs to be able to support himself before he can take on the responsibility of a family again.

As for the six month probation . . . We're supposed to be getting sealed in August. I've set time limits before, and he's good by the time the time limit comes up. Then he regresses again. I can't make him get help, but he is pulling me down with him. Going down that path before, for me personally, ended up with me spending three years with my parents while I tried to get myself together enough to be around people, much less get a steady job and finish school.

After reading this post, the first thoughts that jumped out at me were not only ADHD, but possible Asperger's Disorder. Are you familiar with Aspergers? Typically people with this disorder struggle in recognizing emotions in other people. They struggle with empathy. They struggle in their social relationships. They also struggle in regular tasks that would seem easy to someone else (like putting in 40 hours a week at a job).

I think you should go to counseling by yourself. Tell your counselor that you would like to do a pros/cons list for staying with your husband and a pros/cons list for leaving him. The counselor will hopefully be objective and help you identify your options and the possible consequences to each option.

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