So what you're saying is that Marriage eventually becomes Codependency?


Recommended Posts

Hello everyone, its been years since I've posted.

I've followed many of the threads here and seeing marriage from an eternal perspective, I've noticed marriage really isn't all that its cracked up to be.

Now, I'm speaking as a single person and never married, I was in a relationship with my first (and only girlfriend) of 6 years. We almost got married and after reading all these threads... I'm so glad I didn't.

So glad, that its becoming at a point where marriage is just not... for lack of better words, worth it?

Yes, there is the "checklist" of that temple marriage in order to get into the celestial kingdom, but I've seen its comes to to a point after 6+ years of marriage, thats where the real work begins. The whole honeymoon phase is well past gone where children are usually in the mix, and everyone's urging advice is to avoid divorce. And I agree.

The interesting part is, that we have to start giving up on our own desires, wants, needs, etc. in order to fully love our spouse, I agree with that also. Now, isn't that just being codependent?

Hear me out, here. I'm not being cynical or trying to troll or whatever, but I really think ideally a good marriage is between two people who are codependent (I know, sounds ridiculous). After my break up with my fiance, I look back at how much I catered to her, sacrificing whatever integrity I had or pride, or needs. I started reading all the material i had about codepedency, and now i realize, why should I be fixing that?

Isn't that how spouses should be treating each other? From what I've read, that's what the advice (I've interpreted) on here is. Your marriage comes to a point where you have to literally work for your love, work for your happiness. Here's what I quickly searched:

Codependency in the marriage is when you one partner places the needs of the spouse before their own. It is not just a matter of being nice all the time. When you are codependent, you put your own needs, feelings and desires in the background of your life. You worry incessantly about your spouse's needs on the other hand to the point where there is no room for expression of your own.

That's what I see marriage is about now because of what I've read, except its two partners placing the needs of each other's needs before their own.

Taken to the extreme? A bit, yes. I'll admit, all the times I was aware I was putting all my needs second to hers I was excited, happy, that I was doing something nice for her, knowing that it would make her day. If that was reciprocated, that would be the ideal marriage for me, because I'd be aware that she'd be doing the same...

...but frankly, I'm not ready to do that just yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When someone says the word codependent, my understanding is that they are talking about a situation in which one partner is completely independent while the other is completely dependent. Certainly not an ideal situation. Not sure who it was who decided that's what codependent means. I think it's pretty dumb as that situation is obviously not codependent but entirely onesided.

The term used most in the church is interdependence, and i think it's this that you are describing here. And i agree with you. If i am meeting my husband's need and he is meeting mine, then no one is losing out and the relationship grows. Just do a search on the word "interdependence" at lds.org. Most of the articles that come up talk about the importance of interdependence in marriage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of Franklin Covey's basics: You oughta move from dependence, to independence, to a thing called "interdependence". That last thing, when you're doing it right, is greater than the sum of it's parts. There are just some things one can't (or shouldn't) do alone. There are other things that can just be done better, with two healthy mature spouses.

(But yeah, there are a lot of codependant married people out there.)

Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sounds to me like you had a bad relationship that lasted for too long, and it's tainting how you feel about long-term relationships. I can sympathize.

But a healthy relationship is one where you work together to figure out what you individually and collectively need, not just want, and make goals to meet those needs.

The first 4-6 years of marriage was actually the hardest for us. I think it gets easier every year. We're very happy, and we are independent, and we make a great team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advice everyone.

@Eowyn Yes, I'll admit the relationship has made me bitter (its 4 months fresh; still in the anger/depression stage of grief), I definitely was codependent. It does get difficult constantly reminding myself that my future relationships won't be like that. But thanks for understanding. Plus we had differing beliefs (she was a Witness o_O)

@Connie Thank you for that. After reading alot of the articles on LDS.org that was the word I was looking for; It's codependency minus the consequence of built up resentment because of the unequal efforts.

I guess my views on marriage isn't all doomed now. I mean, being in that type of relationship is built in me; give and give without much expectation in return. I just hope I can find a lady that can share the same viewpoint.

At this point in time though, I NEED to be single and date around lol; it just got exhausting after all that time.

Edited by FormalMan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read an interesting article on co-dependency written by Dr. Harley (who authored His Needs Her Needs which he has now put under a system he calls Marriage Builders). How the Co-dependency Movement Is Ruining Marriages

The basic thing I took away from his article is that it really depends on what you mean by co-dependency and in what context. As he explains it, the idea of co-dependency really only applies when one of the spouses has an alcohol, drug, or similar addiction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Giving in to your spouse is not being codependent (although some people have issues with codependency). It is learning to be selfless. You have to learn the same thing in regards to children, with God, and in serving others, as well.

The reason why most marriages fail is because one or both spouses become selfish. They do not seek to serve the other, but only themselves. Why do many people stop going to church? Same reason. They choose to focus on their own desires (fishing, golfing, sports, movies, shopping, etc), rather than focusing their lives on God and his kingdom.

Why are there more miserable people in the USA than in third world nations? Because we are a selfish people. Rich and selfish. Meanwhile, those in poorer nations tend to be humble and thankful for what they have, and seek to help those around them. Selfishness and pride end up destroying nations and families. It is all the same sickness.

As I see it, those who do not marry and learn to be selfless, are the ones who are codependent on materialism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I see it, those who do not marry and learn to be selfless, are the ones who are codependent on materialism.

I'm going to fix that for you:

"As I see it, those who choose to not marry and learn to be selfless, are the ones who are codependent on materialism."

Because, despite all that we do, some people may not marry in this life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My mom has been married for 40 years. The other day she told me about my dad being unhealthy and how she was emotional because if he died she could not live without him.

I gave her the same advice my brother gave me when my wife divorced me. He said "if I was you I would get a snowboarding pass". Well I did. So I told my mom to do the same when my dad dies lol.

The point is you have to to be able to live and function without a spouse. Anybody could lose a spouse at any moment due to a car accident. Take an inventory of how dependent you are, and if you cannot live without a spouse, it's time to grow in some areas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are great responses here. We've been married 35 years. I'm happy I married my husband and I'm happy he still wants to be married to me. The key: Unselfishness and commitment.

I looked at your profile. 23 years old and fresh out of a six year relationship... YUP!!! You need to just date for awhile. Just working on being the right person and you'll find the right person. She's out there somewhere. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good afternoon FormalMan! It is a pleasure to meet you. :)

I don't think a healthy marriage is a codependent marriage. I also do not think that equating our relationship with Heavenly Father with codependency is correct. Codepency implies a negative relationship and it requires two parties that are dependent on each other. Although Heavenly Father joys in our righteous decisions and loves a humble heart, I don't think ultimately his station, his happiness, or his being is dependent on our actions or what we are.

I certainly don't view my marriage as one of codependency. I think love and desire are what constitutes a healthy foundation to a marriage. Codependency, by definition, implies a relationship that is built on necessity rather than will or desire. Love for someone means our desires are for their best interest and therefore our actions are because of agency and not necessity.

I believe that if your relationship is codependent in nature than this isn't necessarily evil or bad but I do believe that this is just a rung on the ladder to a fully realized relationship with your spouse. I think there is room to move beyond codepency to a relationship where we aren't forcing our wills to align with our spouses but rather that we desire to do so freely because of our love for them!

Regards,

Finrock

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to fix that for you:

"As I see it, those who choose to not marry and learn to be selfless, are the ones who are codependent on materialism."

Because, despite all that we do, some people may not marry in this life.

I always try to defer to my elders. And my elders are usually women....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is true, you can read a lot of threads about marriage advice on here and not know why anyone would get married. There are a lot of happy marriages out there, especially in the church we are members on...there is a lot of focus on nurturing a marriage, etc. There is also a lot of opportunities to learn and grow on a very personal, individual level. All of the ordinances are very independent, including (oddly enough) the sealing, because the covenants you make are between you and Heavenly Father, not between you and the other spouse. As one develops in these individual areas, one can become much closer to Heavenly Father, but without the trials and changes we experience in an eternal relationship we can't really be like Him. We learn some things in these relationships (including parenthood) that we can't learn by reading, or going to the temple, or serving in callings, we need these types of relationships to learn how He feels about US, among other things.

Yes there are lots of happy, healthy marriages, there just aren't a lot of threads about them. They don't get a lot of attention. Squeaky wheels get oil, etc.

I, personally, am in a really great marriage. It hasn't always been one, and sometimes we take turns being selfish. I am pretty sure I just had the worst Mother's Day of my life this year...next year will be different, I'm sure. It is hard, we are none of us perfect, but with the atonement active in our lives, and with the ability to forgive and let go, we can help each other be each other's helper to the celestial kingdom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Hi.

Sounds like you are still hurting after your break up. Must be hard after 6 yrs together. And I think I can understand your concern about codependency being a yucky requirement of marriage. There's lots of marriages out there promoting it as "Christ-like". It's easy to become confused when people start talking about being "self -less" and stuff.

I don't think codependency makes good marriages. It makes people lose themselves and start controlling others. And that is kind of gross.

Easy to get confused though. Sometimes we get scared that our lover will leave us if we set a boundary or if we talk about how we really feel. We might think they'll judge us as being unkind or selfish. Or maybe we are so focused on being connected that the lines between identities get blurry. Are these the kind of concerns you had when you referred to codependency?

I think that being anchored to "self" is a fundamental to good marriage. Just as much as being connected is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 years married and yes it is very much worth it. Sad that you only see the marriages with serious troubles. Life isnt easy but being with a partner that you love and that loves you makes any pain in life easier to bear and deal with.

We are not codependent. We are one. Is it wrong to lose yourself? lol yes but its a lot more fun to gain yourself from being one with your eternal companion.

Edited by annewandering
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A majority of my concerns really stem from being hurt. I'm at a point where I've sort of lost my identity. For me, it was more of being afraid of how they'll react rather than being judged as unkind or selfish. Definitely something I have to work on myself.

At least now, I have nothing holding me back from going on my mission. I'm already 24.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A majority of my concerns really stem from being hurt. I'm at a point where I've sort of lost my identity. For me, it was more of being afraid of how they'll react rather than being judged as unkind or selfish. Definitely something I have to work on myself.

At least now, I have nothing holding me back from going on my mission. I'm already 24.

Boy, if you can learn these lessons in your 20's, what a gift that will be for your future relationships!

Missionary work is great life experience. Good luck with your plans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I completely agree.

I've been married for 6 years and marriage is not what it's cracked up to be. If I could go back and redo the last 7 years, I would have dated my husband MUCH longer than I did (5 months) and put off marriage altogether.

I've never been interested in being married but I succumbed to his pressure to do so. Do I love him? Yes. Do I enjoy being married to him? No. No, no, no. I'm extremely independent and having someone around me all the time is stifling for me. We've been in counseling a few times, all without much success. But alas, I've made a commitment and it just wouldn't be right to leave him. I'll have to find some way to endure.

The sad part is, there isn't any major issues in our marriage, just general incompatibility. There are very few things we agree on and fight constantly. It's gotten to the point where we don't even want to be around each other. Of course I would have better known our incompatibility had I gotten to know him better. Regrets? I've had a few.

You're doing the right thing, my friend. Marriage is NOT for everyone. It's hard, it's annoying and physically, emotionally and spiritually exhausting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I completely agree.

I've been married for 6 years and marriage is not what it's cracked up to be. If I could go back and redo the last 7 years, I would have dated my husband MUCH longer than I did (5 months) and put off marriage altogether.

I've never been interested in being married but I succumbed to his pressure to do so. Do I love him? Yes. Do I enjoy being married to him? No. No, no, no. I'm extremely independent and having someone around me all the time is stifling for me. We've been in counseling a few times, all without much success. But alas, I've made a commitment and it just wouldn't be right to leave him. I'll have to find some way to endure.

The sad part is, there isn't any major issues in our marriage, just general incompatibility. There are very few things we agree on and fight constantly. It's gotten to the point where we don't even want to be around each other. Of course I would have better known our incompatibility had I gotten to know him better. Regrets? I've had a few.

You're doing the right thing, my friend. Marriage is NOT for everyone. It's hard, it's annoying and physically, emotionally and spiritually exhausting.

That's just plain sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pianist, I'm sorry that has been your experience. But for those that are unmarried and reading this: Marriage is a wonderful blessing! It isn't always easy, nor is it always fun but it is definitely worth it when nurtured and enriched.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We've been married 36 years. Has it always been a piece of cake? No. But I'm so glad I've had my husband by my side through all the ups and downs.

When we put our selfishness in a box in the closet and start truly serving our spouse all the "I can't stand to be around him/her because ____fill in the blank______" GOES AWAY! What is left is LOVE!

Edited by applepansy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP, I must say I kind of agree with your assessment. I was married, for three years. Got married young, no kids. Divorce was the best thing for us and it wasn't a bitter or hurtful divorce in any way. So I thought I'd have no aversion to relationships afterward.

Well, I was wrong. When practically EVERYONE you know seems miserable in their marriages at worst and enduring without joy at best.....it really does make marriage seem unappealing.

Isn't marriage supposed to bring joy? My parents have a wonderful marriage, my ex's parents do as well. But that's about it, out of people I know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share