lds2 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I know this is not really fun to hear, yet I feel an obligation to my friends to post what I see...as the swirl of the toilet water is rapidly speeding up for an ultimate flush of our monetary system...I believe it will start in the EU but it won't be long after that we are just as effected.G7 to hold emergency eurozone talks Tuesday OTTAWA • The deteriorating state of Europe’s debt crisis has renewed a sense of urgency among global leaders, as markets around the world continue to recoil from the threat of a financial contagion. ‘There’s a heightened sense of alarm over developments in Europe, particularly in Spain’ Group of Seven finance ministers and central bankers were to hold talks early Tuesday morning, with concerns growing that the capital-stretched financial system in Spain — the latest casualty in the region — could buckle, possibly causing a run on banks that could spread through Europe and beyond...G7 to hold emergency eurozone talks Tuesday as concerns over Spain grow | Economy | News | Financial Post***Global slump alert as world money contractsGrowth of the world money supply has dropped to the lowest level since the financial crisis of 2008-2009, heralding a severe economic slowdown later this year unless authorities rapidly take action.Global slump alert as world money contracts - Telegraph***US Factory Orders Post Surprise Fall in April New orders for U.S. factory goods fell in April for the third time in four months as demand slipped for everything from cars and machinery to computers, the latest worrisome sign for the economic recovery. News Headlines***Notice that the articles above are not coming from Jon Doe's Survival blog...These thiings are concerning, but the thing that will ultimately take the whole house of cards down are derivatives...the following is kind of a primer on what the "big boys" have done and serously and unfortunately there is just not enough money or assets in the world to cover all the leveraged derivative bets that are "out there." Some say that all the world's government debt is 70 Trillion and while there is no exact count it is believed that there may well be more than 700 Trillion dollars created through leveraging the worlds debt. No government or bank in the world could cover that should things start breaking down further.Short Rough Primer on Leveraging and Derivatives, By: Hugh Sunday September 28, 2008 12:06 pmLeveraging means something like this. You sell $10 million in stock. You use this money as the basis to take out a loan so you can buy $100 million in mortgages. Now say you issue mortgage backed securities based on these and sell them. Now you have a $100 million in cash so you go out and buy more mortgages only this time you use your $100 million to buy a billion dollars of them. You have just leveraged your initial $10 million 100 times. This works if you, your banks, and the buyers of your paper are all sufficiently greedy. Why would banks loan you $100 million on $10 million collateral? The short answer is they wouldn’t for you or me, but they would and did to financial companies because of the fees and interest they made off of such transactions and because they “knew” those companies were good for it. This was all much easier to believe on the upside of the bubble because the value of the underlying assets (houses) kept going up. So even if a few percent of the mortgages defaulted, a) the house’s value is greater than at the start and you can sell it again and b) the overall value of the mortgage package on which all this was based kept going up as well. Banks were also making money in fees from writing loans and the companies they were loaning money to were precisely the ones who were buying these mortgages off them so that the banks could make more money in fees writing yet more mortgages...A short rough primer on leveraging and derivatives | MyFDL*** Sorry guys, this is not a tin-hat moment as much as everyone would like their lives to go on as they have for the past generation or two. I believe we are about (within a month to a year) to slide into the second dip of this double dip recession or what some even have called a depression.While prices are rising rapidly for processed foods, there has been little demand for the bulk grains and beans that we are asked to store for adversity and so prices are still relatively low. I believe, if it can be done, that things will be propped up at least until after the election so now is a very good time, a time of abundance for most of us, to tuck money and food stores away for a rainy day. If you wait for adversity or until the writing is on the wall for all to see, such food stores could be very expensive to get and there could be shortages as well. Buying food farther ahead than most (like three months with a basic supply of longer-term grains) during a time of plenty when much is wasted and thrown away is not hoarding, it is being prudent!...as who knows if an earthquake, disease or other calamity could effect the ability of "just in time" trucks to get to any one local...perhaps yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Though I am in favor of emergency preparedness as a general principle, I hesitate to offer specific predictions as to when or where an emergency will happen. Over the past few years I've heard so many the-sky-is-falling-down/imminent-financial-collapse predictions that didn't come true that I hope you'll forgive me for remaining skeptical. Financial collapse is possible, of course, but I think that panic tends to contribute to financial collapse more than just about anything else, so I have little patience for fear mongering. Think of how much more stable the economy would be if people didn't panic every time they heard bad news.So yeah, keep up your home storage and all, but as the British government posters at the beginning of World War II said, "Keep Calm and Carry On." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 A better poster would've said 'Keep Calm and "Carry"' with a picture of a handgun! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 A better poster would've said 'Keep Calm and "Carry"' with a picture of a handgun! :)Non sequitur, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Non sequitur, anyone? How so? It's a thread on preparation and survivalism. skippy's post was clever and perfectly appropriate, not at all non sequitur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Can you hear the Nephites saying it is those fearmongers that say we have to follow the prophets or be destroyed off this land that cause wars to happen with the Lamanites. If we just stay calm and peaceful they will leave us alone. We don't have to follow the counsel of the prophets to be safe, we just have to keep going on like things will always continue the way they always have and nothing will change. Also we know that there are no Gadianton's who would seek our downfall for their personal gain, people who would believe in such conspiracy theories are wackos. People who warn of such things just want to scare me and are not welcome. The prophets (and those who believe the prophets) in the meantime are crying out and mourning for their people because they know of the consequences that will fall upon the people if they choose to ignore the prophet's words indefinitely. Those who could follow God's counsel but chose not to were described as being "hard hearted" and "slow to listen." Of course ignoring the prophet's counsel always ended in catastrophe for the people...eventually. I am not a prophet but I believe their words. In the June 2011 Ensign the First Presidency told us, "to become more self-reliant and to help people help themselves" and "To provide in the Lord’s way, we must develop our own self-reliance and then seek to help others become self-reliant." . Edited July 14, 2012 by lds2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 A better poster would've said 'Keep Calm and "Carry"' with a picture of a handgun! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 President Benson testified that, "secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing." ( Source: “I Testify”, General Conference, October 1988 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 I dont remember the Prophet saying there was going to be an economic collapse by fall. Did I miss it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Going back to another analogy, I believe that toilet water started moving very slowly in 2008 and has been moving so slowly that many could deny that the water was moving at all. Many continue to say that the water isn't actually moving or that it isn't moving downward...it is just going in a circle the same as we have seen in the past. But the longer things go, the faster the water moves and the harder it is to deny that things are headed South. President Hinckley warned in 1998 that he was concerned about a portent of stormy weather ahead. "I hope we will never experience another depression, but..."There is a Portent of Stormy Weather Ahead - Gordon B. Hinckley - October 1998 General Conference - YouTube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) I dont remember the Prophet saying there was going to be an economic collapse by fall. Did I miss it?No I am in no way a prophet and would not mean to put myself in that category. I'm pretty sure I said that was my speculation, and the opinion I expressed was that we could see the second dip of this recession within the next year...:) Edited July 14, 2012 by lds2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 My thinking tends to go in the direction of wondering what is causing the stormy weather. Global warming? Ok just kidding. Most stormy weather of a spiritual > temporal nature is caused by the way we live our lives. Yes we need storage but that is only a plug the hole measure. It is much more important to identify the cause(s). Through history it generally boils down to just a few causes. Greed, pride, envy and a casting of God's teachings out the window. So yes go buy your beans and rice. Then stop and analyse your life. Are you contributing the situation by how you live your life? Do you love God and also love His children? If so how do you show that love? Didnt even suggest you were a prophet. I was referring to Pres. Monson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 How so? It's a thread on preparation and survivalism. skippy's post was clever and perfectly appropriate, not at all non sequitur.Fair enough. You're right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Can you hear the Nephites saying it is those fearmongers that say we have to follow the prophets or be destroyed off this land that cause wars to happen with the Lamanites. If we just stay calm and peaceful they will leave us alone. We don't have to follow the counsel of the prophets to be safe, we just have to keep going on like things will always continue the way they always have and nothing will change. Also we know that there are no Gadianton's who would seek our downfall for their personal gain, people who would believe in such conspiracy theories are wackos. People who warn of such things just want to scare me and are not welcome.The prophets and those who believe the prophets in the meantime are crying out and mourning for their people because they know of the consequences that will fall upon the people if they choose to ignore the prophet's words indefinitely. Those who could follow God's counsel but chose not to were described as being "hard hearted" and "slow to listen." Of course ignoring the prophet's counsel always ended in catastrophe for the people...eventually.I am not a prophet but I believe their words. In the June 2011 Ensign the First Presidency told us, "to become more self-reliant and to help people help themselves" and "To provide in the Lord’s way, we must develop our own self-reliance and then seek to help others become self-reliant.".Okay, I'm trying to connect the dots between what you said there, and the current financial difficulties. Banks, Wall Street, corrupt politicians, Gadianton robbers, etc.--yes, I can see that. But while our current Q15 do continue encouraging us to be prepared, they do not seem to be predicting imminent disaster, or encouraging people to panic. Quite the opposite, in fact, if I remember General Conference correctly. I still maintain that panic and fear mongering cause more harm than good.And no, guns are not the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningStar Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Why do you post all this doom and gloom stuff? What does it do for anyone besides make them worry? Can they stop these things? All we can do is be prepared for anything the best we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Do you love God and also love His children? If so how do you show that love?For better or for worse I show that love through trying to help others. I guess it is the "mother" in me that warns and reminds when I see the possibility of suffering that could be prevented. Sometimes that is appreciated and sometimes it is not...at all! The other day some of my family went to spend an afternoon on the lake, as they were going out the door I reminded them to take water with them to drink as it was very hot...and sunscreen. One resented it and said I was being controlling, the other was glad that I reminded him and went to get those things to take with him. As it turned out the items were needed and both were glad to have the water and sun protection. Had it been cloudy and cold the resentful son would have further resented the inconvenience of storing those items because of another "false alarm." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusParadox Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Lds2, the love that shines forth from your soul to members of this board is wonderful. I feel that you are concerned for your friends and I am grateful. :)The one thing that comes to my mind, actually from last GC, is replace fear with faith. If we have faith, what is to fear? Nothing! We have all been warned by prophets to set our house in order, prepare. That is why all we need to do now is replace fear with faith.I am not trying to imply you have little faith or anything of that sort. What I am cautioning is not to search for signs that destruction is coming. Rather, be joyful that we have prepared for anything that is ahead of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 All we can do is be prepared for anything the best we can.If you feel worried after (to the best of your circumstances) gathering a three month supply of foods you eat, water, a financial reserve (perhaps a bit of which is not in the bank in case there is a banking holiday) and a longer term food supply of foods (so that in case of adversity you can help your extended family, neighbors, and the bishop feed the poor and the needy) you might ask in prayer if there is something else that is needful to prepare or something further that the Lord wants you to do as you should be feeling peace regarding your preparations for the last days.Perhaps if you still feel uneasy you are to help your friends or neighbors prepare the best they can...at least that is what the First Presidency has asked us to do once we have become self-reliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Lds2, the love that shines forth from your soul to members of this board is wonderful. I feel that you are concerned for your friends and I am grateful. :)The one thing that comes to my mind, actually from last GC, is replace fear with faith. If we have faith, what is to fear? Nothing! We have all been warned by prophets to set our house in order, prepare. That is why all we need to do now is replace fear with faith.I am not trying to imply you have little faith or anything of that sort. What I am cautioning is not to search for signs that destruction is coming. Rather, be joyful that we have prepared for anything that is ahead of us.What a loving post, thanks!We are commanded to "watch with all perseverence" and I am, as much as possible for myself and to help my friends and neighbors to be prepared for possible rough spots ahead and for the fulfillment of Latter-day prophecies...but also I try to remind myself as well as others of the glorious things that we are watching for too. I can't wait for the time when all will be healthy, parents can let their children play outside unsupervised, when all will have gainful employment, when our leaders are righteous and eventually our leader will be Jesus Christ himself!!! Such days are in at least some of our futures, woo hoo! I want that for my children and grandchildren at least if not for myself on the Earth. Someone else posted the link to this quote today which may help others understand part of why I watch for these things...my own personal belief is that these things will come much sooner than most I know believe.President Joseph Fielding Smith observed:“So I pray every day of my life that the Lord will hasten His work; and while all this has to take place, I hope He will hasten it, that it may soon come to an end, that peace may come; and so I repeat, as I said in one of the talks some time ago, I am praying for the end of the world because I want a better world. I want the coming of Christ. I want the reign of peace. I want the time to come when every man can live in peace and in the spirit of faith, humility and prayer.” (Signs of the Times, pp. 154–55, 175.) Edited June 6, 2012 by lds2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 This is where faith comes in. Heavenly Father knows of our troubles. Remember the pre-existence? Our bodies were given us to work something out. Hopefully we work that out in a manner pleasing to Heavenly Father. I am 65 and have lived through enough pain that life does not seem as valuable as it once was. I am sorry that the younger of you may feel cheated out of your lives. It is faith then that sustains us. It seems odd that I who have been LDS such a short time would be attempting to reminding others to not live fear. Your ancestor's struggles, as horrific and unfair as they were are common in the world from the beginning of human struggles, through the time of human pre-history to the present day. I know that what you say is alarming, and perhaps even horrible things will befall us. Heavenly Father knows the faithful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Help me out here lds2. On one hand, you talk about this:I believe we are about (within a month to a year) to slide into the second dip of this double dip recession or what some even have called a depression.So, that's a very different forecast than these:The End of the (Financial) World As We've Known It...food stores could be very expensive to get and there could be shortages as well. ...an earthquake, disease or other calamity could effect the ability of "just in time" trucks to get to any one local...the swirl of the toilet water is rapidly speeding up for an ultimate flush of our monetary systemThinking of 1st world nations, of course double-dip recessions are NOT reset buttons, they are not an end of the financial world, they do not bring dire food shortages, and they do not usher in a flush of monetary systems. They're miserable and difficult to weather, but that's it.I'm wondering if you could be a bit more specific. I see your timeframe for a double-dip recession. Would you also be willing to place a timeframe on when these other melodramatic things will happen? I show that love through trying to help others.Yeah, I'll try to keep that in mind, when reading this:Can you hear the Nephites saying it is those fearmongers that say we have to follow the prophets or be destroyed off this land that cause wars to happen with the Lamanites. If we just stay calm and peaceful they will leave us alone. We don't have to follow the counsel of the prophets to be safe, we just have to keep going on like things will always continue the way they always have and nothing will change. Also we know that there are no Gadianton's who would seek our downfall for their personal gain, people who would believe in such conspiracy theories are wackos. People who warn of such things just want to scare me and are not welcome.The prophets and those who believe the prophets in the meantime are crying out and mourning for their people because they know of the consequences that will fall upon the people if they choose to ignore the prophet's words indefinitely. Those who could follow God's counsel but chose not to were described as being "hard hearted" and "slow to listen." Of course ignoring the prophet's counsel always ended in catastrophe for the people...eventually.Just a suggestion - you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Something to consider: I've never characterized folks like you do above. And my bishop trusted me to preach preparadness from our chapel's podium - with my big pile of bug out bags and disaster supplies sitting next to me so everyone can take a gander at 'em. Do you think you'll ever get such an invitation, if you try to shake people out of complacency by drawing similarities between them and stupid people in the scriptures? You and I have similar desires - to encourage people to prepare for adverse times. I really think you would be well advised to think twice before you confuse "insulting people" with "showing love for people". Edited June 6, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) I am truly sorry to those that I have offended...my post below was in response to "I have little patience for fear mongering" and "panic tends to contribute to financial collapse more than just about anything else." There tends to be sort of a "Secret" type belief among some that the bearer of bad news is the cause of it...as they believe positive thoughts attract positive things and negative thoughts attract negative. So my intent below was to point out that ignoring bad things does not keep them from happening. That the judgements promised for the wicked when THEY become ripe in their iniquity cannot be turned away by ignoring warnings. That many modern day "Gadiantons" who's purpose it is to gain power at others expense are out there. And that if you have done what you can to prepare then you have no need to fear but you do have an obligation to help your neighbors also become self-reliant.MY POST WAS NOT TO OFFEND MY FRIENDS HERE OR TO LIKEN THEM IN ANY WAY TO THE FOOLISH PEOPLE IN THE BOM. Just to point out that posting bad news doesn't constitute fearmongering and that people pointing out today's news on a small web site to their friends does not cause it, contribute to it and/or make it worse.***Over the past few years I've heard so many the-sky-is-falling-down/imminent-financial-collapse predictions that didn't come true that I hope you'll forgive me for remaining skeptical. Financial collapse is possible, of course, but I think that panic tends to contribute to financial collapse more than just about anything else, so I have little patience for fear mongering. Think of how much more stable the economy would be if people didn't panic every time they heard bad news.So yeah, keep up your home storage and all, but as the British government posters at the beginning of World War II said, "Keep Calm and Carry On."Can you hear the Nephites saying it is those fearmongers that say we have to follow the prophets or be destroyed off this land that cause wars to happen with the Lamanites. If we just stay calm and peaceful they will leave us alone. We don't have to follow the counsel of the prophets to be safe, we just have to keep going on like things will always continue the way they always have and nothing will change. Also we know that there are no Gadianton's who would seek our downfall for their personal gain, people who would believe in such conspiracy theories are wackos. People who warn of such things just want to scare me and are not welcome.The prophets and those who believe the prophets in the meantime are crying out and mourning for their people because they know of the consequences that will fall upon the people if they choose to ignore the prophet's words indefinitely. Those who could follow God's counsel but chose not to were described as being "hard hearted" and "slow to listen." Of course ignoring the prophet's counsel always ended in catastrophe for the people...eventually.I am not a prophet but I believe their words. In the June 2011 Ensign the First Presidency told us, "to become more self-reliant and to help people help themselves" and "To provide in the Lord’s way, we must develop our own self-reliance and then seek to help others become self-reliant." Edited June 6, 2012 by lds2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Sorry guys, this is not a tin-hat moment as much as everyone would like their lives to go on as they have for the past generation or two. I believe we are about (within a month to a year) to slide into the second dip of this double dip recession or what some even have called a depression.While prices are rising rapidly for processed foods, there has been little demand for the bulk grains and beans that we are asked to store for adversity and so prices are still relatively low. I believe, if it can be done, that things will be propped up at least until after the election so now is a very good time, a time of abundance for most of us, to tuck money and food stores away for a rainy day. If you wait for adversity or until the writing is on the wall for all to see, such food stores could be very expensive to get and there could be shortages as well. Buying food farther ahead than most (like three months with a basic supply of longer-term grains) during a time of plenty when much is wasted and thrown away is not hoarding, it is being prudent!...as who knows if an earthquake, disease or other calamity could effect the ability of "just in time" trucks to get to any one local...perhaps yours.I can understand confusion as I changed direction with my thoughts several times in this part of my initial post. I hope this is a double dip recession but it is possible for something more severe as President Hinckley mentioned a depression twice in his talk about a "portent of stormy weather" ahead saying that he hopes there won't be one...but...I believe this is a time of abundance where there are few shortages, but prices are high for processed foods yet still cheap for the basics. I have no idea when calamities will strike that could cause a disruption of my life or yours, many are seeing weather related calamities in their areas, when a similar or a different calamity might strike my area or yours is anybody's guess.I have no idea whether there will be a continued slide downward of the economy or whether an event will cause a sudden change. There even could be one or more upward trends (like before the election) but I believe that the overall direction is South. There is much talk on the economic forums of a "Black Swan Event" what and if that will happen I have no idea but there is much talk of the possibility right now. Edited June 7, 2012 by lds2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lds2 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Just a suggestion - you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar...You and I have similar desires - to encourage people to prepare for adverse times. I really think you would be well advised to think twice before you confuse "insulting people" with "showing love for people".Again, I hope you will accept my apology as my intent was to warn others of what I was seeing in the news yesterday, and help and encourage those who have not yet prepared for adversity, certainly not to insult you or others here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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