Does the King James Bible support the ongoing need for Prophets and Apostles?


jcob
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We often hear that the heart is deceitful, feelings can't be trusted, must reason, bla bla bla.... As if most people really are like Mr. Spock.

Idioms change. They change through time and culture. In modern, western culture, the heart symbolises emotion and feeling. Did it carry the same meaning for the people of the Bible? This is what the non-LDS scholar Geza Vermes, in his book "The Authentic Gospel of Jesus" has to say about the heart.

To understand the proverb 'Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks' (Luke 6:45), it must be remembered that the heart in Semitic mentality is the symbolic seat of thinking rather than that of feeling. A rabbinic saying in Aramaic distinguishes someone who keeps in his heart what is in his heart from those who transfer their heart's secrets to their mouth and thus divulge them (Genesis Rabbah 84:9). So 'Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks' recalls the image of the good heart filled with righteous ideas and contrasts it with the bad heart crammed with wicked thoughts.

A couple of weeks ago I sat with the KJV and went through references to the mind in the Old Testament. The Hebrew word was always heart! The inner centre of emotions and feelings was the kidneys, or reigns in the KJV idiom.

So, is the mind deceitful above all else? That apparently is what the Bible says.

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Thats fine. Again, I only wanted to talk doctrine. But one last sincere question for everyone.

What if anything would it take for you to no longer believe that your organization is true? Does evidence even matter once you begin to trust in your feelings?

After the Holy Ghost has borne witness that's the end of the debate or discussion for me.

Doubts about truth we've received through the Spirit come from Satan. Have you tried doubting your doubts about LDS Doctrine?

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I highly recommend these posts when it comes to the whole "feelings" issue.

Didn't Major in Journalism...So I Took Up Blogging: TRUSTING FEELINGS

Manifestations of the Spirit: St. Seraphim and the Mormons | Heavenly Ascents

Just to give you an idea of St. Seraphim Sarovsky's stature, he is one of the most venerated Orthodox saints. His icon is the second most common throughout Russia.

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Originally Posted by cobbettj View Post

What if anything would it take for you to no longer believe that your organization is true? Does evidence even matter once you begin to trust in your feelings?

SHOW ME SOME EVIDENCE.

Originally Posted by cobbettj View Post

The Bible says not to believe every spirit. When I read Galatians 1:8 it seems apparent that that even an angel from heaven could preach something false. How did he tell you? Was it a feeling?

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? - Jeremiah 17:9

It is sad (and wrong) that anyone would advise another to dismiss the Holy Ghost, who is a member of the Godhead! Since the bible teaches that we need to discern between good and evil spirits, other churches seem to say ALL spirits should be avoided. Please consider these:

Neh. 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them...

Ezek. 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth...

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Acts 13:52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

1 Cor. 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Cor. 12:3 ...no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Edited by Shawn_
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The one common factor I've noticed about anti-Mormons (not necessarily former members) is that they all deny the Holy Ghost in some way or another. I can't say that they all commit the unforgivable sin, but they all try to cast doubt on the workings of the Holy Ghost. I guess it's their last offense, seeing as how our testimonies are our last or ultimate defense.

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Thanks. I didnt realise this. The only thing is I left the LDS church a month or so ago and only attended another Church for the first time last Sunday. So it would appear that it was rather the mormon curriculum which failed me. Also love how you make the distinction between Christians and Mormons. I thought you were supposed to be Christian? Looks like the Church teaching failed you aswell. : )

Hmmmmmmm? Interesting line of thinking - So, according to your understanding (kind) of Christianity, you believed that Christ failed Judas?

As to the scriptures supporting prophets? Is it not from their (traditional) understanding of scripture that convinced the Pharisees to seek to kill Christ? Did not Satan quote scriptures to tempt Christ?

Why did Jesus warn of false prophets if there were to be no prophets? why not just warn of prophets?

Among the greatest atrocities of man committed over the last 2000 years have been by Christians that include genocide, war and murder of even other Christians that did not buy into the popular teachings of the time.

Did you know that it took traditional Christians until 1649 to pass a law preventing the killing and confiscating of private property for not believing the prevailing (Christian doctrine).

By your standards, Christianity has failed mankind - not just in the historical failures to end war and injustice among and between believers - but is a current failure to deal with truths being discovered by science.

But on the other hand - one can discover that when traditional Christianity rejected the prophets (as the Pharisees rejected prophets over scripture - as in the example of the Pharisees rejecting John the Baptist) - all the other failures of traditional Christianity followed.

The Traveler

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Thats fine. Again, I only wanted to talk doctrine. But one last sincere question for everyone.

What if anything would it take for you to no longer believe that your organization is true? Does evidence even matter once you begin to trust in your feelings?

As an engineer and scientist as well as a devout believer in G-d - I am interested in truth. If there is a religion better than the LDS - I would be most interested. Better is not just doctrine but means to help and serve one another.

What other religion offers a better welfare program (loving others) than the LDS welfare and fast offerings. What other religion offers greater service (love) than the LDS home teaching, visiting teaching, call to serve missions, young men and young women programs - the call to serve without pay? What religion encourages freedom and responsibility more than the LDS; in the LDS method of callings and service?

Anyone can say their doctrine is superior - I once meat a Satan worshiper that claimed his doctrine is superior - even by Biblical standards? What other religion is better than LDS? How do you define better? How they deal with their religious enemies?

The Traveler

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Thats fine. Again, I only wanted to talk doctrine. But one last sincere question for everyone.

What if anything would it take for you to no longer believe that your organization is true? Does evidence even matter once you begin to trust in your feelings?

Doctrine and Covenants 6:23*

Receiving a witness from God is evidence. All man-made evidence is subject to tampering. So again, what greater witness / evidence can you have than from God?

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Mathew 21:33-37 "he sent his servants" "But last of all he sent unto them his son"

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached"

Acts 2:18 "And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy"

Ephesians 2:20 "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone"

Ephesians 4:11- "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets" "Till we all come in the unity of the faith" (See Galatians 3:28)

Hebrews 1:1-2 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son"

There is way more that supports prophets and apostles in His modern church than refutes them.

The Word of God in so many ways presents both edges of the sword while honoring our free agency.

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I acknowledge that this was my error. Always good to learn. But still interested to hear your take on the rest of the scriptures. I understand the Church was built on a foundation of prophets and apostles, but does a foundation keep building?

Would you stop building once the foundation was complete? Show me a structure that is completed this way please.

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Acts 21:10, 11:27, 13:1, 15:22,32--All these are examples of Prophets who lived after Christs death. Christ definitely was a prophet but not the last.

Rev. 11:3-10–This not only speaks of prophets after Christ, but prophets in the last days. If there are prophets in the last days, to which Church do they belong and are a prophet over?

Eph. 3:5--“Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;”

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