My Husband is Breaking his Covenants....


natsumi
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Misshalway hit the nail on the head again!

--

*I am pleading with you in what is about to follow*

Please, Please, Please take a deep breath and think this through. If you go tell the Bishop it will only destroy trust in your marriage. Destroying trust over a matter as trivial as this is not worth it. Instead of going to the Bishop just express your concern to your husband. What you decide to do could be fatal to your marriage.

Now I want to put things in perspective for you. Every single man has masturbated before, it is unavoidable. If a man tells you he has never masturbated in his life he is probably lying. Like Misshalway said, we make far to big of a deal about nothing. Why do you think Bishops always give the same talk to him? It is because they have all had similar struggles.

Let me be clear. I did not say that masturbation was nothing. There is a reason why God wants us to restrain our sexual drives.

But I see it more like how I teach my kids not to say swear words. They inevitably do, though. All you parents know exactly what I mean when your kid drops an "Oh my G**!" at Thanksgiving dinner. Like my nephew who said "Oh sh**!" when he lost his place in his talk in sac mtg. LOL. Doesn't mean I don't teach them not to swear. It just means I don't freak out while I'm doing it.

Masturbation is the same thing. Some learn to control it early and some later. The less shame we feel about "normal" human sexuality, the better. Shame makes discipline so stinking messed up!

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Actually, as far as I know, none of my children has ever uttered a foul word or used the name of God as a curse. If they did so in my presence, I would be shocked, and would tell them so.

My father never said a curse word in all the days I knew him. Well....until my brother drove the bronco into the side of the house.:D

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  • 3 months later...

OKay, maybe I'm corrupted completely or something but I simply refuse to believe that masturbation is a sin. I'm not even sorry for it. When employed wisely it can help bring couples closer together and actually make the bonds of marriage stronger. Almost every single guy on this planet masturbates at some time or another, most on a very regular and healthy basis and I refuse to believe God thinks of it as a sin. I think you are being way to harsh on your husband and need to chill out and maybe find ways to make the bedroom experience more exciting to look forward to for both him and yourself. The law of chastity meaning has changed so much over the years with various degrees of interpretation, that its just confusing and I think leadership is just plain wrong if they classify masturbation as breaking the law of chastity. Pornography is a completely different kettle of fish since you are watching people break chastity through intercourse...but even if he screws up and looks at it every now and then is it really that HUGE a deal? You be the judge of that. Guys and women are wired differently tho, I know some people may think I say that as a cop out, I don't, your husband should be honest with you, but I think some tolerance and understanding should be shown. I once went to a bishop since I felt unworthy to go to the temple because I had masturbated to some pornography. It had been about 3 months since my last use. His advice to me was to get myself to the temple. I didn't go and worse stuff happened. Shoulda gone, maybe your husband should go sooner rather than later. Remember, the temple isn't for perfect people, it is for people who have a desire to learn about perfection. just my two cents...

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OKay, maybe I'm corrupted completely or something but I simply refuse to believe that masturbation is a sin...Almost every single guy on this planet masturbates at some time or another, most on a very regular and healthy basis and I refuse to believe God thinks of it as a sin.

I think your problem is clear, NES.

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Good afternoon Natsumi. It is a pleasure to meet you! :)

Here is my advice: The best thing you can do is to love and support your husband. It is difficult, but you must see your husband as if he is physically, severely wounded and instead of needing harsh judgements or cold shoulders, he needs help. When we live in sin we live with these blinders on, so to speak. We are unable to clearly see how destructive our sinful descisions are to ourselves and to others. It sounds like your husband is in that state.

It is possible to show love, support, and encouragement towards your husband even while you make it clear that his sinful actions are not acceptable. In a loving way, try to find out why your husband is doing what he is doing. As some have mentioned, there is almost always some underlying issue(s) that precedes acting out in sexually impure ways. Your husband is not well, but he must first recognize how ill he is and then he must decide to go see the Doctor (Jesus) and apply the medicine (atonement) to his life. Until then, you can act as a "first-aid" and do what you can to help promote an environment where the Spirit can touch his heart and lead him to the change he needs.

Regards,

Finrock

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It did start back in June, but I continue to read the replies because it does help strengthen me in knowing to keep standing by my husband. I don't always reply to every single post because it'd be the same reply each time. Others are not worth the reply at all. However, perhaps we should stop worrying about the salvation of my husband and worry about the salvation of NES...

"The law of chastity meaning has changed so much over the years with various degrees of interpretation"

I'm sorry, what church do you belong too? What God do you believe in? My God is unchanging. He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The law of chastity is the same. Masturbation was wrong in the Old Testament the same as it is in 2012. I'm sorry if you think it's "okay" to watch pornography and masturbate to it because it "makes you healthy" but we believe in overpowering and taking off the natural man. So, I'm sorry to say that you're advice is not helpful. And maybe you need to take a look at yourself before entering the sacred and holy temples. After all, one question you must answer before recieving a recommend is "Are you living the law of chasity" and I'm sure if you ask your bishop to clarify for you - he will tell you Masturbation is wrong. I vaguely recalling that wasting semen on the ground is wicken in the sight of the Lord.

On another note, never tell me to make the bedroom experience for my husband more exciting. You know nothing about my private life with my husband. I assuure you that is not the case and never has been. I'm not asking for your tips on positions or roleplay options Sir, my husband - despite his problem - is a gentleman and a **** good husband. He respects me and we love each other. We show this very throughly in the bedroom without your distasteful views that you may think of with your references to pornography and sick fantasties.

The temple is for worthy members to learn about eternal life and grow closer to their Heavenly Father. I emphasize on worthy. If we let anyone who was baptized into the temple - well, why don't you just pray about that this week and see what the spirit tells you. Or better yet, read the scriptures - start with the Book of Mormon, and see what that tells you.

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I am concerned that we sometimes throw around the term "addiction" very carelessly in the church. When we talk of a porn addiction, what do we mean by that?

I live and work in a very sparsely LDS populated area. Because of that, nearly all of my work colleagues, friends, and neighbors are not members. They all drink, but I know very few alcoholics. I know a number of them that engage in behaviors against which we are counseled. This includes a few that I know view pornography, but are they addicted?

It does not affect their work. They can function with or without it. It is not a controlling obsession.

I agree with the above posters that pornography/masturbation can be a problem in a marriage especially when a spouse feels as though this degrades them personally or makes them less desirable. I also understand that the church teaches that masturbation/pornography is a sin, but so are many, many other things...including some that are detrimental to marriage.

Attending sporting events at the expense of family time, swearing, failing to pay tithing, participating in MLM schemes. All can be detrimental to the family, some might be construed as sins...BUT, we don't by definition classify them as addictions, and labeling the individual as an addict may be counter productive. Clearly, I don't know your situation, your spouse may truly be "addicted". Yet I think in many instances the reality is individuals are participating in behavior that is upsetting and that we can't condone, but I doubt as to whether it rises to a the level of addiction.

-RM

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I should apologize for my first vague post but I didn't feel like the heavy details were necessary. So, yes, you aren't aware of all the facts. My husband has been viewing and pleasing himself to pornography since he was 10 years old. (I would call this an addiction rather than a simple "lapse in judgement")For all of you who want to comment on this - I knew this before we got married. I've known my husband since we were 13 years old. I'm very aware of his past. But again, I love my husband. I am dedicated to him. My duty is to stand by him and to please him (Yes, I really do believe this, because I want to be as good of a wife as my husband is too me). When we got married, I did think it would get less because he had that physical attraction there. I suppose that I was naive. However, I still feel like this is a cause for help and love and not for abandonment.

Since all of the adivce on this forum...I have sought the help of our bishop (luckily, my husband took that step himself). Although it has not resolve itself (not surprisingly) we are working towards it and it is getting better. My marriage is not as happy as I had imagined in its first year but I know that we will have a stronger marriage because I have enlisted the advice from many stronger spirits on this forum. At first I didn't see the advice, but it has helped me. Thank you very much for your support in this delicate matter.

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And may I speak a bit on how the church views pornography. It is a grave sin, because it in itself is breaking the law of chasity. Breaking the law of chasity, that's the #3 sin (You know, below denying the holy ghost and murder).

Any sin takes us further from our Heavenly Father. The further we are, the less we can feel the spirit and the harder it is to turn around. Think of it as a white handkerchief thrown into a mud puddle. You can wash it and it can become clean again. But if you continue to throw it in and wash it and throw it in and wash it - or throw it in and leave it and wash it later - how will this white handkerchief look?

With our Heavenly Father, we can become spotless again - so make sure you are using the right soap! What was repentance mean? That we Acknowledge our sin - and feel sorrow for it. Abandon your sin - say that you will turn from it and do it no more! (That last part is important) Confess our sin (and if it's pornography, that means a meeting with your bishop). Then you must make restitution and do the will of the Lord. (Basically start living your convenants).

Now your friends may not be LDS, and maybe they only view pornography on a small basis - but they see this as "acceptable" because the world sees it as "acceptable". We are led by a Prophet - a living and amazing Prophet - who has counseled us otherwise. While it may not be a full blown "addiction" to your friends, it is drawing them away from their Heavenly Father. Which may be just as bad.

I've heard it said once that missing one Sunday may seem fine, but missing two in a row is that much closer to inactive. The same message may very well apply to viewing pornography or drinking or smoking or any other "addictive" behavior.

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Guest SquidMom

I couldn't find where you said it was "your duty to service him." I am compelled to ask what century you are living in. What country? I have been married for 8 years, and we have certainly had our share of problems, but we are happy, overall. It has NEVER been my DUTY to do anything for him. You are not an employee, or a slave. Marriage is an equal responsibility relationship. If you feel you are doing something intimate because you have to, or it's your "duty" as a wife, DON'T DO IT! Physical intamacy is vital to a healthy marriage, but can be very harmfu if done for the wrong reasons. It has been awhile since you first posted, and I hope things are improving for you.

If your husband is still struggling with his addiction, (yes, it is an addiction, I don't know what dodo tried to say it wasn't), speaking from experience, I think what you both need to concentrate on is not the action itself, but what dives it. If he is uncomfortable discussing it with you, he should see a counselor. NOT an LDS counselor! He needs to see someone who can help him focus on not the spiritual wrongness of it, but of the physical and emotional aspect of his needs. What drives it? What need does it satisfy, beyond the obvious physical pleasure? If he is not looking at porn, what does he think about? If it's you, I don't think it"s That big of an issue, because he is still, technically, being faithful. I know you don't approve on ANY level, but at least there could be comfort in that.

I had desires that I was ashamed of and did not share with my husband for a long time. Yes, I admit that I pleasured myself because he did not fulfill those particular desires for me. He is an excellent partner and being with him was still very satisfying, but there was always that something missing that I still desired. After several years of holding these needs in, I am ashamed to say that I strayed from him. Someone else gave me what he did not. After admitting this to him and finally sharing my wants with him, turs out he is more than willing fulfill ALL my desires. I no longer feel the need to seek it elswhere, and our marriage is so much stronger!

You seem to be very devout, and I applaud you that! Overcoming addiction of any kind is extremely difficult and I am glad you have found the faith and strength to do it.

I can't help but feel that perhaps your own adherence to your values may be what makes him reluctant to approach you about desires he may have (if that is part of it, I could be way in left field here). Perhaps he feels you will think less of him if he fantasises about things you may view as base, or vile. Sometimes the psycological aspect of things can be satisfied without actually committing the associated act that is usually involved.

Yes, love him, support him, but don't enable him. Hopefully he is working again by now. Again, from experience, unemployment probably made him feel like les of a man in your eyes, regardless of how you really felt. That encopasses the sexual aspect, as well. Seeking guidance through the church may not be the best thing, at first. It's easier to change because you want to,, not because you feel guilty. That just leads to lower self esteem, which perpetuates the problem. Once the true desire to change exists, support from the church can definately help, but it has to come from inside the person first.

Best of luck to you both.

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I have been married for 8 years, and we have certainly had our share of problems, but we are happy, overall. It has NEVER been my DUTY to do anything for him.

I don't think even you believe this. If you do, then you do not understand marriage.

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I have been married for 8 years, and we have certainly had our share of problems, but we are happy, overall. It has NEVER been my DUTY to do anything for him.

I don't think even you believe this. Marriage is all about duty to your spouse.

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I don't think even you believe this. Marriage is all about duty to your spouse.

Indeed. It's one thing to say there isn't a duty to be intimate under any and all circumstances a spouse may desire (which is what I suspect pops into mind for some when the phrase 'duty to service him' pops up), it's quite another to say that there is no duty to spouse in a marriage. The Family: A Proclamation to the World states:

HUSBAND AND WIFE have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children.

I'm inclined to read solemn responsibility as synonymous with duty. Now when we love and care for our spouse, when we cherish them and are one with them our duties and responsibilities towards them may feel light but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Because I'm sure someone will misconstrue this unless I'm explicit, I am not using duty to spouse in a marriage as some sort of euphemism for an obligation to have sex.

Edited by Dravin
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In the family proclamation to the world it states: Husband and wife have a responsibilty to love and care for each other and their children.

I think you could easily substitue duty for responsibility.

Edited by pam
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Guest SquidMom

By saying I had no duty to him, I was refering to the sexual aspect of things. Just because I am his wife does mean that I am obligated to put out every time he has an itch. If I'm not in the mood, I have the right to say no. To "love and care for EACHOTHER." Where does this say that a woman must subjugate herself to her husbands sexual desires? Certainly, like I said before, intimacy is vital. but if it feels more like a duty to one rather than a mutually satisfying experience, it is wrong, and a sign that there is a problem. Husband and wife have many duties to eachother in a marriage, and I think the specifics vary in every marriage as to who does what as far as work and kids and daily details of life. To love and support eachother in times of personal hardship applies to everyone. Expecting someone to give it up when you"re the only one who wants it right then is unfair and not respectful to the other persons feelings and rights. No man or woman in any kind of relationship is obligated to do something they do not really want to do.

Am I seriously the only woman who feels this way? If so, can I at least a human rights or woman's rights activist to agree with me? Getting someone, male or female, to have sexual relations by means of coersion or manipulation, i.e. "We're married, so you have to", is actually a type of rape. I truly hope I am not the only one that thinks that is wrong.

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Guest SquidMom

Like I said, I did not see the original post. When I read "It is my duty to service him" on it's own I assumed she was reffering to the bedroom. If she really meant to use the word "serve", my apoligies. That I agree with.

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Am I seriously the only woman who feels this way? If so, can I at least a human rights or woman's rights activist to agree with me? Getting someone, male or female, to have sexual relations by means of coersion or manipulation, i.e. "We're married, so you have to", is actually a type of rape. I truly hope I am not the only one that thinks that is wrong.

Of course you're not the only one. Nor do I see where anyone suggested that.

In a mutually respectful marriage, you're meeting each other halfway. Sometimes one has to go more than halfway. For instance, if I know something is important to my husband or that something would help him feel loved, or happier, or less stressed, even if it's not my first choice of things to do at that moment, I'll often give in. That goes for sex, too. But if he knows I'm very tired or not feeling well or needing or wanting to be doing something else, of course he respects that and doesn't pressure me.

He knows that I'm open to his needs, even when my wants aren't always in line, just as he's open to mine. For instance, he knows I have a need to talk things through, sometimes on numerous occasions. I'm sure that gets tiresome and he doesn't always feel like it. But he's happy to help me feel better. However if he was working on a major deadline, or had a headache, or had had a very long day and was settling in for sleep, I wouldn't ask him right at that moment to be my sounding board.

I don't think it's any more kind to withhold physical love every time I "don't feel like it" than it would be for him to withhold emotional support every time he "didn't feel like it". Relationships require compromise and sacrifice.

In either case, at the end of whatever it is we both feel more loved and more connected. Love and respect perpetuate themselves.

(disclaimer: this doesn't make a man's perception of inadequate quantity or quality of sex justify turning to porn or any other kind of infidelity)

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By saying I had no duty to him, I was refering to the sexual aspect of things.

Even if we accept this very narrow interpretation of "duty" as "putting out sexually", do you really believe this? A person has no duty, no obligation, no moral need whatsoever to gratify the sexual urgings of intimacy of his or her spouse?

I am just astounded at this attitude.

Just because I am his wife does mean that I am obligated to put out every time he has an itch. If I'm not in the mood, I have the right to say no. To "love and care for EACHOTHER." Where does this say that a woman must subjugate herself to her husbands sexual desires?

This is tremendously sad. A husband wants to make love to his wife, to be intimate with her, to feel better through the union that only sex provides -- and his wife things that is "subjugation" and "obligation to put out"?

I hope you don't really believe such a vile thing. I hope you are somehow caught up in a momentary feminist, man-hating dark fantasy of the meaning of married sex, and that this does not reflect your true feelings about your husband's sexual desires and the place of sex in a marriage.

Certainly, like I said before, intimacy is vital. but if it feels more like a duty to one rather than a mutually satisfying experience, it is wrong, and a sign that there is a problem.

Why, SquidMom? Real question. Why is it wrong? Are you suggesting that we should only ever show physical affection to our spouse when we feel "in the mood" to express such feeling? Do you think it's wrong for a man to feel the need or even the obligation to go kiss and hug his wife when he gets home from work and tell her that he loves her, even if he's not in the mood and thinks she kind of smells bad and needs a shower?

Expecting someone to give it up when you"re the only one who wants it right then is unfair and not respectful to the other persons feelings and rights.

That you would use the term "give it up" to describe what should be one of the most holy and beautiful of marital activities betrays a decidedly unhealthy and negative attitude toward sex, I fear.

If you really feel this way, then I hope you never, ever, ever expect your husband to treat you with kindness or tenderness unless he happens to be feeling kind and tender at the particular moment. After all, you would not want him to feel wrongly obligated.

No man or woman in any kind of relationship is obligated to do something they do not really want to do.

So if I don't feel like earning a living for my family or picking up my dirty socks, I certainly should not do so.

Or does that rule only apply to women and sex?

Am I seriously the only woman who feels this way? If so, can I at least a human rights or woman's rights activist to agree with me? Getting someone, male or female, to have sexual relations by means of coersion or manipulation, i.e. "We're married, so you have to", is actually a type of rape. I truly hope I am not the only one that thinks that is wrong.

A husband asking his wife for sex when she's not in the mood is rape. I do not think anything more needs to be said on the matter.

I am truly sorry for your husband.

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I think the term "service your husband" is problematic because it comes across as a one way thing - I'll give him his fix, rather than a mutually beneficial act of love. I think under normal circumstances, withholding sex is lame. In abnormal circumstances, the thought of having sex with her husband might make a woman want to cry, and without the necessary physiological response her body needs, it would likely be painful too. With pornography addiction, a period of abstinence is sometimes recommended so the addict can "recalibrate". They become desensitized to regular sex and have a hard time performing. Meanwhile, the wife is often desperately trying to compete with the porn, thinking it will prevent him from looking at it, as if she were at fault in the first place.

The responsibility can't be placed on the wife when it comes to porn addiction. If a man were to become single again, he would still need to learn healthy coping techniques to live a chaste life until he is married again.

That said, I totally expect my husband to put out, even if my Halloween costume creeped him out all evening long. :P

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Guest SquidMom

Thank you, VORT

It is obvious that you are male and have never been, or are close to anyone who has ever been, in a dominatiing relationship where one person expected all and gave nothing back. I have very a close friend who has suffered greatly because of the attitude of "you're supposed to, even if it is not pleasing to you." Thankfully, she finally decided not to put up with it anymore and is VERY happily divorced.

As for my poor husband that you feel so sorry for, he is very satisfied with our intimacy. In fact it's usually HE who turns ME down. And you know what? I say "OKAY." Because we do respect eachother. If I have terrible breath, or smell bad from working in the yard or something, he kisses me quickly and says " You smell." I'm okay with that.

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