How could Lehi and Nephi know that the scripture (the old testament) was engraved on plates of brass


Gerasim
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How could Lehi and Nephi know that the scripture (the old testament) was engraved on plates of brass ?

For behold, Laban hath the record of the Jews and also a genealogy of my forefathers, and they are engraven upon plates of brass. 1. Ne 3:3

And I also knew that the law was engraven upon the plates of brass. 1. Ne 4:16

Thank you

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They were literate, both of them. That's about it, without even pulling the revelation card. :)

Oh, and I'm sure it wasn't the "old testament" (Tanakh), since that's a development from more recent times. But we read that the "five books of Moses" (Torah) were there, along with a lot of other prophet's writings.

HiJolly

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The answer is, I don't know. But I can think of several different ways they *could* have known.

Just use your imagination. Apply probabilities if you wish, but all that will prove is that *you* don't know.

HiJolly

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The question is '' How could Lehi and Nephi know ...''

And he answered your question, HiJolly is saying that Lehi and Nephi could know the contents of the brass plates by reading them (or about them I suppose). Much like how I could know the Christmas Card from my family says, "I love you." by I reading the card. I'm guessing by your unhappiness with the response HiJolly didn't parse your question like you intended, maybe if you rephrased the question he might understand better what exactly you are trying to ask about.

Edited by Dravin
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The question is '' How could Lehi and Nephi know ...''

The same way you know that the KJV Bible you read is the same that was produced in 1611. The same you know know that the entire world, including you and me, did not suddenly flash into existence ten seconds ago, complete with false memories of our previous life that did not actually happen. They used the traditions they had been taught along with the information of their own sensory input and inferred the reality of existence and the basic truthfulness of their history.

Edited by Vort
Prepositions take direct object pronouns
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Also Laban, Lehi and Nephi were related. Lehi and Nephi knew that Laban held the records of their ancestors.

Yes, exactly.

One of the many ways Lehi *could* have known, would be a conversation during a family reunion between said Lehi and Laban. Bingo.

HiJolly

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The question is '' How could Lehi and Nephi know ...''

Its kind of like asking how I know the bible contains the record of the Jews and the Book of Mormon contains the record of the Nephites. Its not a secret and I was educated from a young age on what they were. The main difference is in my time getting my hands on a copy for myself is really easy. In Lehi and Nephi's time copies were harder to get. Which was why they had to get their copy from Laban

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I'm sure Lehi had seen the plates before sending his sons to get them from Laban. If you saw metal plates and knew the process for keeping records at the time (which I'm sure Lehi and Nephi did, since they made plates of gold later) wouldn't you know they were brass? I think it would be safe to think they would recognize brass when they saw it. They were educated men.

I'm not a plumber but I can tell the difference between a brass fitting and a galvanized or plastic one.

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Oky, just want to know about the scripture, were they engraved on the plates or on the scroll.

When Moses wrote all the words of the Lord...Ex 24:4, ... he wrote it in the book, ...the book of the covenant ...Ex 24:6... Did he wrote on the scroll or on the plates ?

What does the word ''the book'' mean, the plates or the scroll ? If he wrote on the scroll, the scroll would not be preserved, it would decay because he sprinkled the book with the blood ... Ex 24:4-8 ; Heb 9:19 ... For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people ...

What do you say ... was it written on the scroll or engraved on the plates ? If it was written on the plates, how could Lehi and Nephi know this ?

Thank you

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What do you say ... was it written on the scroll or engraved on the plates ?

Records could have been kept on both media, either concurrently or transcribing done after the fact.

If it was written on the plates, how could Lehi and Nephi know this ?

Answers already supplied:

1) They read the plates.

2) They heard (or read from another source) about the contents of the plates.

3) Revelation.

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Oky, just want to know about the scripture, were they engraved on the plates or on the scroll.

Of course we don't know. I *think* they were not written at first at all, but were orally passed down. Why do I think this? Because part of the law is borrowed (or inspired from) other Mesopotamian texts. The first writing, from everything we can gather of the past in those days, would have likely been on scrolls of skin.

Only later were these book written down, perhaps as recently as 1200 BC. But again, I don't *know*.

When Moses wrote all the words of the Lord...Ex 24:4, ... he wrote it in the book, ...the book of the covenant ...Ex 24:6... Did he wrote on the scroll or on the plates ?

Probably scroll.

What does the word ''the book'' mean, the plates or the scroll ? If he wrote on the scroll, the scroll would not be preserved, it would decay because he sprinkled the book with the blood ... Ex 24:4-8 ; Heb 9:19 ... For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people ...

What do you say ... was it written on the scroll or engraved on the plates ? If it was written on the plates, how could Lehi and Nephi know this ?

Thank you

Scroll first, then plates.

I STILL don't get this whole "how could Lehi/Nephi know" etc. thing. It makes no sense to me. They lived there in Jerusalem. They could read and write. Laman was a relative. Everybody had brains and tongues visions and everything. Ok, maybe not TVs, but ???

HiJolly

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Let me give you something to think, how could they know that the law was engraved on the plates of brass ?!

And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel. And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

Deut 31:9-13

Example in Nehemiah 8

Thank you

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This is who Lehi was: Lehi, Father of Nephi

As a Prophet in Jeruselem 600 B.C. There are many ways for Lehi to know the plates were brass.

I am still not understanding your question even with the references from the Bible. Are you having trouble with the record being on brass plates because it doesn't state they were brass in the Bible?

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Let me give you something to think, how could they know that the law was engraved on the plates of brass ?!

And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel. And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

Deut 31:9-13

Example in Nehemiah 8

Thank you

ok, so we presume that "the law" as mentioned in Deut 31 was written not only on the scrolls of the priests, but also engraved in the Brass Plates, pre-600BC.

Do you agree?

Or are you saying that Nehemiah/Ezra wrote the law during or after the Babylonian exile?

HiJolly

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This is who Lehi was: Lehi, Father of Nephi

As a Prophet in Jeruselem 600 B.C. There are many ways for Lehi to know the plates were brass.

I am still not understanding your question even with the references from the Bible. Are you having trouble with the record being on brass plates because it doesn't state they were brass in the Bible?

It's almost like he believes that there could only have been one record, that multiple copies of the scriptures aren't possible. And since the scriptures mention how various book of the Old Testament were written down in a book/scroll how could they possibly have been written down in the brass plates too.

I'm not entirely sure though because he's not clarifying his point/question particularly well.

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How could Lehi and Nephi know that the scripture (the old testament) was engraved on plates of brass ?

For behold, Laban hath the record of the Jews and also a genealogy of my forefathers, and they are engraven upon plates of brass. 1. Ne 3:3

And I also knew that the law was engraven upon the plates of brass. 1. Ne 4:16

Thank you

Hi Gerasim. It is a pleasure to meet you! I hope you are doing well. :)

My guess is that they knew what brass was and when they say the plates they were like, "Hey, these things look like they are made of brass."

Or, maybe someone told them, "Hey, you know those plates that Laban has, did you know that they are made from brass?"

My question to you: What would prevent them from knowing that they were brass plates?

Regards,

Finrock

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Nephi wrote 1 and 2 Nephi about 20 years after leaving Jerusalem. He would long have had the Brass Plates in his hands by then. People often assume things when they write, especially regarding the knowledge of their audience. He didn't have to explain how he knew they were brass, because they had been in his possession for years by the time he wrote.

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ok, so we presume that "the law" as mentioned in Deut 31 was written not only on the scrolls of the priests, but also engraved in the Brass Plates, pre-600BC.

Do you agree?

Or are you saying that Nehemiah/Ezra wrote the law during or after the Babylonian exile?

HiJolly

Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!

hat they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever! Job 19:23-24

Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: Isaiah 30:8

And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. Habakkuk 2:2

In the scriptures are some verses that give us a hint that they also write with ''iron pen'' !

Thank you

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