Questions about the Spirit World and beyond.

[circusboy01]

Some things I know, and some things I've never been quite sure of.

I know when we die we all go to the Spirit World/Prison until the final judgement. We will then go to Outer Darkness, Telestial Kingdom Terrestrial Kingdom or Celestial Kingdom.

Right so far?

I know in the Celestial Kingdom we can be with our families, and I'm pretty sure that in the Teleslial Kingdom we can't be with our family. But I'm not sure about the Terrestrial Kingdom.

Also since everybody will first go to the Spirit World. Will we be with family there? Since Missionaries will still be teaching, so there will still be opportunity to learn, I'm guessing yes, but I have never been told one way or the other.

Another question that I have always wondered about Can our loved ones look down on us from the Spirit World? Or is that something that is reserved for Heavenly Father, Jesus, The Holy Ghost, and Angels. Brother Ray

[Gerasim]

Hearts Bound Together

Because I Live, Ye Shall Live Also

[Bensalem]

Some things I know, and some things I've never been quite sure of.

I know when we die we all go to the Spirit World/Prison until the final judgement. We will then go to Outer Darkness, Telestial Kingdom Terrestrial Kingdom or Celestial Kingdom.

Right so far?

I know in the Celestial Kingdom we can be with our families, and I'm pretty sure that in the Teleslial Kingdom we can't be with our family. But I'm not sure about the Terrestrial Kingdom.

Also since everybody will first go to the Spirit World. Will we be with family there? Since Missionaries will still be teaching, so there will still be opportunity to learn, I'm guessing yes, but I have never been told one way or the other.

Another question that I have always wondered about Can our loved ones look down on us from the Spirit World? Or is that something that is reserved for Heavenly Father, Jesus, The Holy Ghost, and Angels. Brother Ray

One clarification: The Spirit World is divided into two conditions. When we die in Christ we enter paradise as spirits; when we die in our sins Satan claims us and we enter the spirit prison. In both, our spirits await the judgement and we are either resurrected into everlasting glory or everlasting misery. We can escape the grasp of Satan while in the spirit prison by turning to Christ and receiving a proxy baptism into the LDS church.

[rameumptom]

I believe we can still enjoy our family relationships in all the kingdoms of glory. That said, they will not be exactly what they are here. For the exalted, they can continue having children into the eternities and creating new family bonds, etc.

D&C 76 tells us that those in the higher kingdoms will visit and instruct those in the lower kingdoms - a time for families to lovingly help those who were not as holy in this life. They can enjoy those relationships to the extent they may in the kingdoms they are in, but they will be limited by the amount of light, life and joy they have within themselves.

[Vort]

You are asking specific questions about the mechanics of how sociality is accomplished in the afterlife. Such information is not given to us now, except in a general way: "And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy."

[Dravin]

You are asking specific questions about the mechanics of how sociality is accomplished in the afterlife. Such information is not given to us now, except in a general way: "And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy."

And to highlight, just exactly how our existing sociality coupled with eternal glory differs from existing sociality leaves a lot of room for unknowns.

[pam]

One clarification: The Spirit World is divided into two conditions. When we die in Christ we enter paradise as spirits; when we die in our sins Satan claims us and we enter the spirit prison. In both, our spirits await the judgement and we are either resurrected into everlasting glory or everlasting misery. We can escape the grasp of Satan while in the spirit prison by turning to Christ and receiving a proxy baptism into the LDS church.

I disagree that Satan claims whoever enters the spirit prison. The spirit prison is also reserved for those that died without knowledge of the truth. They are given the opportunity to learn and to accept the gospel. But that doesn't mean they were automatically claimed by Satan when going there after death.

[applepansy]

I disagree that Satan claims whoever enters the spirit prison. The spirit prison is also reserved for those that died without knowledge of the truth. They are given the opportunity to learn and to accept the gospel. But that doesn't mean they were automatically claimed by Satan when going there after death.

Alma 12 makes this very clear...well it did to me.

[NeuroTypical]

From the Gospel Principles manual:

Latter-day prophets have said that the spirits of those who have died are not far from us. President Ezra Taft Benson said: “Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin. Our loved ones who have passed on are not far from us” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1971, 18; or Ensign, June 1971, 33). President Brigham Young taught that the postmortal spirit world is on the earth, around us (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 279).

[pam]

Also from lds.org:

When the physical body dies, the spirit continues to live. In the spirit world, the spirits of the righteous “are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow” (Alma 40:12). A place called spirit prison is reserved for “those who [have] died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets” (D&C 138:32). The spirits in prison are “taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, and all other principles of the gospel that [are] necessary for them to know” (D&C 138:33-34). If they accept the principles of the gospel, repent of their sins, and accept ordinances performed in their behalf in temples, they will be welcomed into paradise.

It makes no mention that the spirits that go to spirit prison are claimed by Satan.

[circusboy01]

One clarification: The Spirit World is divided into two conditions. When we die in Christ we enter paradise as spirits; when we die in our sins Satan claims us and we enter the spirit prison. In both, our spirits await the judgement and we are either resurrected into everlasting glory or everlasting misery. We can escape the grasp of Satan while in the spirit prison by turning to Christ and receiving a proxy baptism into the LDS church.

Thank you for your Post. But, the clarification wasn't necessary. If you'll notice the second line of my Post "I know when we die we all go to the SPIRIT WORLD/PRISON" Brother Ray

[circusboy01]

You are asking specific questions about the mechanics of how sociality is accomplished in the afterlife. Such information is not given to us now, except in a general way: "And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy."

Wow1 You changed my simple question into something that makes me sound really intelligent.

[circusboy01]

Alma 12 makes this very clear...well it did to me.

I've been reading Alma, I'll have to go back and read 12 again Thanks Brother Ray

[Heber13]

One clarification: The Spirit World is divided into two conditions.

I agree with Bensalem, and think of it more as a condition. I think this includes feelings of love and unity in a family, or disagreement and resentment, depending on what we forged while in mortality.

When we are "sealed" as a family, we are sealed to a purpose that binds us together in hope of being together forever with the Lord.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I believe we can still enjoy our family relationships in all the kingdoms of glory. That said, they will not be exactly what they are here. For the exalted, they can continue having children into the eternities and creating new family bonds, etc.

D&C 76 tells us that those in the higher kingdoms will visit and instruct those in the lower kingdoms - a time for families to lovingly help those who were not as holy in this life. They can enjoy those relationships to the extent they may in the kingdoms they are in, but they will be limited by the amount of light, life and joy they have within themselves.

Lets say that Mrs. A made it into the Celestial Kingdom but has a great great great uncle who did not and he finds himself in the Telestial Kingdom and who she never knew about while in mortality. And hypothetically she is assigned to go to the Telestial Kingdom to instruct, you are saying that she will somehow be able to distinguish who is "family" and who is not while there so that she can "lovingly help those who were not as holy in this life"? What relationship is there more than saying that that individual is a spirit brother to her any more than what she would say for any other spirit "brother" found in the Telestial Kingdom. There will be some ability to distinguish shared mortal genetic connections there and it will have some value?

I would have a hard time seeing the Celestial Mrs. A look at any of her spirit brothers or sisters differently than she would someone who was distantly genetically related to her in mortality that she never had any direct contact with while in mortality. Or would you say there is some value to genetic links while in mortality that exist beyond this life? If that is so, what is it about mortal genetics that gives value to that relationship? I don't understand that.

And, if we all go back far enough we would all be genetically related to Adam and Eve, so in that sense we are all one big family, again taking away any distinction of "lovingly helping" one person over another.

[circusboy01]

And to highlight, just exactly how our existing sociality coupled with eternal glory differs from existing sociality leaves a lot of room for unknowns.

I thought I was asking simple, easy answer questions. Did not know I was asking Questions that we do not have the privilege to know yet. No wonder I don't know the answers Brother Ray ;0)

[Vort]

I thought I was asking simple, easy answer questions. Did not know I was asking Questions that we do not have the privilege to know yet. No wonder I don't know the answers Brother Ray ;0)

Think of it this way: What's the answer to the following question?

"Do Martians have family reunions?"

We have no way of answering that, or even of knowing whether the question makes sense. Do Martians even have families the way we do? What is the nature of their familial relationship -- do they fight to the death when they see each other, or form alliances with other families? Do they define "family" completely different from how we define family? Under what conditions might Martian families congregate, and what would be the intent and the outcome?

Seemingly "simple" questions often presuppose a whole bunch of information that we simply do not have. Yours are those kind of questions -- seemingly simple, but presupposing so much that we simply cannot answer the questions or even know if they make any sense.

[circusboy01]

I agree with Bensalem, and think of it more as a condition. I think this includes feelings of love and unity in a family, or disagreement and resentment, depending on what we forged while in mortality.

When we are "sealed" as a family, we are sealed to a purpose that binds us together in hope of being together forever with the Lord.

As I said to Bensalem I know that the Spirit Wold is divided into two sections Spirit World and Spirit Prison. Please see Post #11 Thanks Brother Ray

[circusboy01]

Think of it this way: What's the answer to the following question?

"Do Martians have family reunions?"

We have no way of answering that, or even of knowing whether the question makes sense. Do Martians even have families the way we do? What is the nature of their familial relationship -- do they fight to the death when they see each other, or form alliances with other families? Do they define "family" completely different from how we define family? Under what conditions might Martian families congregate, and what would be the intent and the outcome?

Seemingly "simple" questions often presuppose a whole bunch of information that we simply do not have. Yours are those kind of questions -- seemingly simple, but presupposing so much that we simply cannot answer the questions or even know if they make any sense.

So what your, kind of, saying is Your guess is as good as mine. Right? ;0)

[circusboy01]

Lets say that Mrs. A made it into the Celestial Kingdom but has a great great great uncle who did not and he finds himself in the Telestial Kingdom and who she never knew about while in mortality. And hypothetically she is assigned to go to the Telestial Kingdom to instruct, you are saying that she will somehow be able to distinguish who is "family" and who is not while there so that she can "lovingly help those who were not as holy in this life"? What relationship is there more than saying that that individual is a spirit brother to her any more than what she would say for any other spirit "brother" found in the Telestial Kingdom. There will be some ability to distinguish shared mortal genetic connections there and it will have some value?

I would have a hard time seeing the Celestial Mrs. A look at any of her spirit brothers or sisters differently than she would someone who was distantly genetically related to her in mortality that she never had any direct contact with while in mortality. Or would you say there is some value to genetic links while in mortality that exist beyond this life? If that is so, what is it about mortal genetics that gives value to that relationship? I don't understand that.

And, if we all go back far enough we would all be genetically related to Adam and Eve, so in that sense we are all one big family, again taking away any distinction of "lovingly helping" one person over another.

I'll admit. I don't understand everything you're saying. But one thing I think your asking is How could someone from the Celestial Kingdom recognize a Great Great, Uncle in the Telestial. Kingdom, if she never know him while here on earth. I'm guessing if she has passed on chances are her parents, perhaps her Grand Parents, maybe an Uncle or an Aunt passed on before her. Surly one of them would know the Great Great Uncle is. She could find out who he is through one of them Brother Ray

[Vort]

So what your, kind of, saying is Your guess is as good as mine. Right? ;0)

Sort of. Really, what I'm saying is that guessing is pretty much meaningless. You might as well guess how many spines there are on fish living on a different planet.

[circusboy01]

Sort of. Really, what I'm saying is that guessing is pretty much meaningless. You might as well guess how many spines there are on fish living on a different planet.

I get your point. guessing is a wasted effort. But somehow we just can't help doing it. At least I can't. I'm sure many of us have a picture of the Spirit World, and the three degrees of Glory in our mind. Probably no two are alike. Brother Ray

[Bensalem]

I disagree that Satan claims whoever enters the spirit prison. The spirit prison is also reserved for those that died without knowledge of the truth. They are given the opportunity to learn and to accept the gospel. But that doesn't mean they were automatically claimed by Satan when going there after death.

Only those who have not reached the age of accountability (8 years old and younger) are exempt from Satan's claim. All others are sinners. All sinners are claimed by Satan.

I am making a distinction between spirit prison (abode for wicked spirits) and the paradise (abode for righteous spirits) offered after death in the Spirit World before the resurrection. These are the only two choices available to those who die outside of Christ (meaning they were not baptized in the LDS church).

Prophets of the LDS church have spoken of these two abodes as a Spirit Prison since in both the spirits are waiting to be reunited with their bodies in the resurrection. And, as you have identified, they have also revealed that teaching is going on even to the wicked by the righteous.

But Satan claims the sinner as his own. They are the spirit children of the devil.

[Bensalem]

Thank you for your Post. But, the clarification wasn't necessary. If you'll notice the second line of my Post "I know when we die we all go to the SPIRIT WORLD/PRISON" Brother Ray

Yes, and since there was no mention of the paradise that is also part of the spirit world/prison, I spoke of it for the benefit of all.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Bensalem

[Bensalem]

As I said to Bensalem I know that the Spirit Wold is divided into two sections Spirit World and Spirit Prison. Please see Post #11 Thanks Brother Ray

The prophets of the LDS church have used those two phrases synonymously. That is why I identified the paradise aspect of the spirit world/prison.