Olympian Oscar Pistorius controversy


Bini
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There's quite a bit of controversy stewing over, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/26/prosthetic-limbs-unfair-advantage-oscar-pistorius_n_1706146.html'> Oscar Pistorius, competing against able-bodied athletes.

I'm more inclined to agree with this poster, that commented, and I quote:

Whether they give him an advantage or not, he's doing something very different than an able-bodied runner, and the competition is obviously uneven. I think it's ridiculous that he's allowed to compete.

To even out the odds, I think everyone should be as equals and "in the same boat" so to speak, only then can you really appreciate the accomplishment of the winner. I would say this applies vice versa, as well.

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I tend to agree with your opinion, Bini. But I also think people should not get all worked up about it. It's petty stuff.

When two or three of the top ten times in the world are held by amputees, or when the world record itself is, I think at that point we can very easily make the argument that this type of artificial limb is an accessory that offers a motion advantage, not fundamentally different from a bicycle, and that those who use it should not be counted as world record holders. At that point, it's easy enough to adjust the record books. In the meantime, this guy appears to be the only one who operates at that level. It is very hard to believe that he just happens to be an elite, world-class-level athlete who managed to overcome losing his legs -- but whatever. The guy has done amazing things in achieving what he has done, so for now I don't see why not to let him enjoy his achievements.

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I tend to agree with your opinion, Bini. But I also think people should not get all worked up about it. It's petty stuff.

When two or three of the top ten times in the world are held by amputees, or when the world record itself is, I think at that point we can very easily make the argument that this type of artificial limb is an accessory that offers a motion advantage, not fundamentally different from a bicycle, and that those who use it should not be counted as world record holders. At that point, it's easy enough to adjust the record books. In the meantime, this guy appears to be the only one who operates at that level. It is very hard to believe that he just happens to be an elite, world-class-level athlete who managed to overcome losing his legs -- but whatever. The guy has done amazing things in achieving what he has done, so for now I don't see why not to let him enjoy his achievements.

This is my husband's line of thinking, too. I just have a hard time agreeing with it. We have two Olympic events each catering to one of the two types of athletes, handicapped and able-bodied. If it was decided to mesh both events together, I'd be fine with that but since it hasn't been done at this point, I think the two should remain separate. But I totally agree that this man is an amazing athlete. I don't question that for one second.

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Not to take this off on a tangent but... this is one story that shows how the Olympics has changed. I had always thought that the Olympics was to show the talents of the best of the best in amateur athletes or non professional athletes. That too has changed in some of the venues. Take basketball. It's now the best of the best in professional athletes. Personally, I'd like to see it go back to amateurs or non professional.

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To even out the odds, I think everyone should be as equals and "in the same boat" so to speak, only then can you really appreciate the accomplishment of the winner. I would say this applies vice versa, as well.

This guy didn't even make the qualifying time for the Olympics, I'm not sure what the other athlete's could be worried about. I think it's gotta be dang awkward to run with only one prosthetic. I'm not sure that it's as big of an issue as people are making.

Not to take this off on a tangent but... this is one story that shows how the Olympics has changed. I had always thought that the Olympics was to show the talents of the best of the best in amateur athletes or non professional athletes. That too has changed in some of the venues. Take basketball. It's now the best of the best in professional athletes. Personally, I'd like to see it go back to amateurs or non professional.

I am admittedly not very clear on this but as I understand it other countries were allowing professional athletes and we followed suit because it was giving them an edge over us. Even if it were an Olympic wide ban they would have to rely on the individual countries being honest about it. I don't have high hopes for honesty between countries.

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I am admittedly not very clear on this but as I understand it other countries were allowing professional athletes and we followed suit because it was giving them an edge over us. Even if it were an Olympic wide ban they would have to rely on the individual countries being honest about it. I don't have high hopes for honesty between countries.

Yeh I do remember the controversy from the Bejing Olympics regarding gymnastics.

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This guy didn't even make the qualifying time for the Olympics, I'm not sure what the other athlete's could be worried about. I think it's gotta be dang awkward to run with only one prosthetic.

1) He has two prostheses (the guy in the middle):

Posted Image

2) Unless the article is mistaken he did make the qualifying time for the 2012 Olympics:

He ran a 45.20 this year, earning a spot at this summer's Olympic Games.

Are you and Bini talking about the same guy?

Edited by Dravin
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I am admittedly not very clear on this but as I understand it other countries were allowing professional athletes and we followed suit because it was giving them an edge over us. Even if it were an Olympic wide ban they would have to rely on the individual countries being honest about it. I don't have high hopes for honesty between countries.

This is not quite right. The issue is not about dishonest countries allowing professionals to pass for amateurs. The issue is that there is no international standard for what is considered "Amateur". The original definition of an Olympic amateur is the "gentleman sport" back in the era of royalty. The gentleman plays the sport as a hobby, not as a means to gain fortune. This standard is not applicable in modern times.

In America, amateurs are those who don't get paid to play in the sport - for example, NFL is professional, College Football is amateur. But, in other countries, the distinction between an amateur and a professional is blurred because they don't have "paid sports". This is more apparent in socialized countries where they have athletes that are professionally trained by their respective governments that don't have professional events for such sport. In the Philippines, for example, there is no professional baseball. But, there are people who train professionally to play baseball just to win Olympic trophies because you can make money out of endorsements for your celebrity status.

Edited by anatess
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1) He has two prostheses (the guy in the middle):

Are you and Bini talking about the same guy?

Perhaps not, I read about a guy getting into the Olympics this year, he had one prosthetic and he did not make a qualifying time, he was given special consideration. I'll have to dig up the article and see.

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1) He has two prostheses (the guy in the middle):

Posted Image

I'm more impressed with the guy on the far left and the second one to the right. It looks like they're just hopping along at a good, solid pace. And without prosthetics to boot! (they would have a HUGE disadvantage in the 3-legged race though)

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I tend to agree with your opinion, Bini. But I also think people should not get all worked up about it. It's petty stuff.

When two or three of the top ten times in the world are held by amputees, or when the world record itself is, I think at that point we can very easily make the argument that this type of artificial limb is an accessory that offers a motion advantage, not fundamentally different from a bicycle, and that those who use it should not be counted as world record holders. At that point, it's easy enough to adjust the record books. In the meantime, this guy appears to be the only one who operates at that level. It is very hard to believe that he just happens to be an elite, world-class-level athlete who managed to overcome losing his legs -- but whatever. The guy has done amazing things in achieving what he has done, so for now I don't see why not to let him enjoy his achievements.

I'll be curious to delve into this when I have time to do some research.

When my late husband had his leg amputated, we were told that a single amputee uses 30% more energy to walk with a prosthesis than with a 'real' leg. This rises to 80% for a double amputee. I'll be curious to read articles about how a prosthesis overcomes this deficit enough to be considered an advantage.

Then there is the whole balance issues with a prosthesis. It looks so easy once someone has mastered it, but I saw the truly hard work that one must put in to get to that point. Evn then, it takes a significant amount of more energy.

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I'll be curious to delve into this when I have time to do some research.

When my late husband had his leg amputated, we were told that a single amputee uses 30% more energy to walk with a prosthesis than with a 'real' leg. This rises to 80% for a double amputee. I'll be curious to read articles about how a prosthesis overcomes this deficit enough to be considered an advantage.

Then there is the whole balance issues with a prosthesis. It looks so easy once someone has mastered it, but I saw the truly hard work that one must put in to get to that point. Evn then, it takes a significant amount of more energy.

I cannot imagine the challenges an amputee must overcome.

It should be noted that, Pistorius, had both legs amputated at 11 months of age, so he has had most of his life to adjust to his physical disability. By age 11, he was already an avid athlete, and participated in all kinds of sports.

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I'm more impressed with the guy on the far left and the second one to the right. It looks like they're just hopping along at a good, solid pace. And without prosthetics to boot! (they would have a HUGE disadvantage in the 3-legged race though)

Oh my heck you always crack me up. :lol:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ingenuity - when man turns a disability into an unfair advantage.

Posted Image

Disability - The only disability in life is a bad attitude.

Posted Image

I feel really terrible for saying this... but I really do think Pistorius has a different challenge than able-bodied runners and therefore, needs to a run a race against other blade runners.

I can be persuaded.

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It obviously didn't provide any particular advantage....

....too soon?

Pistorius didn't even place but my personal point was that regardless if his blades gave him an advantage or not, he is not on the same playing field as the other contenders, and so it was never a fair match up to begin with.

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I am a cyclists but it has been a while since I competed - I ride mostly for the enjoyment (the other day I encountered Jerry Sloan - which btw is a great and nice guy). However I have long been an advocate of a HPV race. HPV stands for human powered vehicle.

This is a race of both man and technology working together. The point is that any technology can be uses as long as the only means of propelling is sourced in human anatomy. Thus anything can be used but it must get 100% of the energy from the human operating it.

A cyclist on the flat with no wind will encounter wind resistance that increases exponentially with their speed. If the wind resistance were to remain constant at the level of a rider going 15 mph the force necessary under normal increase to accelerate to 20 mph the cyclist would be going 50 mph. Wind resistance is that significant. Thus when speeds begin to exceed 10 mph efforts to reduce wind resistance become more important than a power or muscle advantage. This is why runners do not wear loose clothing but special fabrics designed to reduce wind resistance. Sometimes just a few 100ths of a second is the difference in winning.

But other things are happening in effort to gain even the slightest advantage. A lot of research has gone into food athletics eat during training and events and the effects certain food items have.

However, I have been concerned about a recent trend and that is the use of caffeine - which is considered a legal drug. What is currently taking place is that the athlete will avoid caffeine until just prior to the event then they will take an abundance of the drug. This has become sort of an art science finding the perfect dose for a particular athlete and the particular event (including distance and recovery time to the next event).

I have become quite interested in athletes that dominate a particular sport and are considered a human hero and example - that later seem to have lost their health edge. Sometimes I think our society rewards the winner at any cost attitude.

The Traveler

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