Book of Mormon evidence

[livy111us]

Anthropologist John Sorenson has just given a talk at this years FAIR conference on Book of Mormon evidences and convergences. He did a great job at placing the BOM in a real world area.

You can read it here: 2012 Reading Mormon’s Codex « FAIR

A few points that I found interesting.

Around AD 350 the Central Depression of Chiapas was depopulated almost totally due to war instigated by foes from Guatemala. The basin of the Sidon river or land of Zarahemla and isthmian possessions of the Nephites (identified as mainly the Central Depression of Chiapas) were largely emptied of their population at the around AD 350 when the Nephites retreated northward from Lamanite aggression.

As part of that event Mormon’s record reports the destruction of the city of Jerusalem in the land of Nephi resulting from its being “covered with water.” Submerged ruins dating to about the time of Christ have been discovered beneath Lake Atitlán in Guatemala, where our geographical correlation places the city of Jerusalem.

Near the time when Mosiah1‘s party left, some evidence of warfare is found in the archaeology of the valley of Guatemala along with a decrease in population that mirrors the Mosiah1 group’s departure.

A “Great Wall,” so named by archaeologists, 22-feet high, protected the ancient ruined city (now called Kaminaljuyu, near Guatemala City) during the sixth to third centuries BC. In concept, timing, and scale it was apparently similar to the wall built by the Nephites around the city of Nephi.

Here is a short list of evidences he has found.

The Correspondences

Beyond an introduction Mormon’s Codex is arranged in two parts. The first consists of 14 chapters treating various topics–for example, writing and records, society, government, warfare, and ideology and religion. The following five chapters deal with history and archaeology. Given some unavoidable overlap in the two categories, there is a minor degree of redundancy in the list of correspondences.

Because of the large numbers of correspondences discussed in the book, it will be impossible here to present more than a sample of the total.

Human Biology

The skin color of some native American groups in Mexico and Central America according to early Spanish observers were virtually the same as European “white ” people. This corresponds to the Book of Mormon description of its Nephite population as “fair” as against the darker, more numerous Lamanites.

Artistic representations of individuals from ancient Mesoamerica patently show among them Mediterranean-looking folks as well as Asians, Oceanians and Africans. More specifically a minority of specifically Semitic people are seen to be one component among ancient Mesoamericans.

Mesoamerican art also represents men with substantial beards whose parallel in ancient times is almost exclusively with the Near East. Those representations are concentrated in the area in Mesoamerica where and at the times when Book of Mormon peoples apparently dwelt.

Political Economy

Both in Mesoamerica and in Book of Mormon societies an elite formally dominated in political, social and economical terms, similar to the pattern in all ancient civilizations (but completely different from early 19th century rural New York state).

Both sources further confirm that:

Rulers and their dependents held their positions in accordance with an ideology that considered traditional (sometimes “divine”) rulership as part of the natural social order.

The perquisites of the ruling elite granted them legal power and an economic mechanism through tribute assessments to amass considerable wealth. The customs associated with kingship and nobility limited their personal use of that wealth, nevertheless they exercised much power by virtue of it.

Priests were usually closely related to the dominant elite, their teaching of a traditional ideology providing validation for the structure of exploitation.

Society

1. Mesoamericanist scholars have concluded that the primary social actors in ancient Mesoamerica were not individual persons so much as social groups. Analysis of Book of Mormon societies reveals the same; individuals as such did not count for as much as social elements, especially those based on some version of extended kinship. (Again this view is contrary to the norms of the early 19th century USA).

2. One of the nuclear family’s primary functions in society, both in Mesoamerica and according to the Nephite record, was to provide instruction to children and youth through frequent use of formal “moral discourse.”

3. Polygynous marriage was practiced on a limited basis in Mesoamerican as well as in some Book of Mormon societies.

4. Full-fledged social class structures prevailed in many Mesoamerican societies. The primary distinction was between nobles and commoners, according to both the scripture and native history. Moreover social classes among the Nephites were important during two periods, the first and second centuries BC and the third and fourth centuries AD, both times when Mesoamerican classes were highly visible.

5. Sociopolitical factions anxious to gain power and privilege were endemic in Book of Mormon societies. Their jostling caused most of the sociopolitical stress the scripture reports. Mesoamerican factionalism was equally pronounced and disruptive.

6. Religion was an important basis for differentiating social groups according to both secular and Book of Mormon sources. Groups usually had a dominant deity as integrator and protector.

Material Culture (only 10 of 37 total)

Cultivation according to both the Book of Mormon and Mesoamerican sources was entirely without the use of animal power.

“Wine” referred to in the Book of Mormon could have been prepared using several plants, including the same grape as in the Old World; but distilled liquors were not known. Spaniards invariably called native intoxicants “wine,” and they spoke of plots containing maguey plants (the source of the intoxicant pulque) as “vineyards,” a term used in the Book of Mormon for plantings that yielded “wine.”

“Flocks and herds” played a considerable economic role in Nephite life, but it is unclear whether they were domesticated animals or were merely “kept,” nor are the species involved identifiable. Studies of animal utilization in ancient Mesoamerica have shown that a variety of fowls and animals were utilized, in essential agreement with Mormon’s text.

The one Jaredite mention of “elephants” (only in the third millennium BC) corresponds with paleontological discoveries of mastodons that are known to have survived in certain environments in North America as late as 2000 BC and maybe beyond, long past the supposed date of extinction of those animals.

A dearth of timber is reported by Nephite colonists of “the land northward” in the first century BC, it is said that “cement” became the preferred building material. North and west of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec archaeology shows the use of cement began about the first century BC.

Sacred “towers” were constructed by the Nephites that were similar to Mesoamerican “towers” or pyramidal substructures, all such constructions having had a primarily religious purpose. Moreover the one instance, in the book of Helaman, when a private tower structure was used as a site for prayer and religious discourse has Mesoamerican parallels.

The model for Nephite “temples” was specifically the “temple of Solomon,” which featured two non-structural pillars that stood at the sides of the door of the temple. Some Mesoamerican “temples” display similar structurally unnecessary pillars.

Metals are “not supposed to have been” in use in Pre-Classic or Classic Mesoamerica, before about AD 900, but archaeological finds and linguistic data now show that metallurgy was known in Book of Mormon times.

“Silk” and “linen” are mentioned in the Book of Mormon as fabrics utilized by its people. At least five fabrics specified as like silk were reported from native Mexico by the Spaniards. Henequen, a widely used Mesoamerican fiber, made a fabric that was a near equivalent of linen.

Hundreds of miles of roads were constructed in Mesoamerica as early as the Pre-Classic era. Near the time of Christ the Book of Mormon describes not only “roads” but “highways” that were “cast up.” Mesoamerican roads were often “cast up,” that is, constructed with raised fill that was then smooth-surfaced.

Government

(All of the eight correspondences in this list are documented by both Mesoamerican sources and in the Book of Mormon.)

Central to ancient governance was the idea that kings (or at lesser levels, lords or nobles) were divinely designated (or were themselves considered divine) rulers with powers conferred on them “by right.” (This was contrary to New England where the Book of Mormon was first published.)

Governments were evidently fragile; factionalism in the ruling stratum was endemic.

Political schisms or fissions often resulted in dissident social elements fleeing in order to establish independent kingdoms or cultures.

Election or ratification of a new ruler by “vote” of his subjects was sometimes the custom.

Major rulers occupied a “palace”; residences of lesser rulers were not considered “palaces.”

A new (younger) king was sometimes installed before the death of the previous ruler, who then served out his lifespan as “emeritus” king.

The judicial function required a corps of judges who served under the nominal chief judgeship of the monarch; several levels of judicature existed, difficult cases being referred to a higher-level.

Imprisonment was not used as an ultimate form of punishment; prisoners were only held temporarily for further examination or trial.

Warfare (15 of 33)

Warfare was of major significance in the culture history of both Mesoamerica and Book of Mormon peoples. Recognition of its significance represents a major change in archaeological thought in recent decades; that area’s war practices now align more directly with those described in Mormon’s book.

Wars in Mesoamerica were typically fought during the time of year when they did not interfere with agricultural activities, society’s greatest priority. The same timing is reflected in Book of Mormon accounts of warfare.

Religion played a major role in warfare and was sometimes the primary cause of conflict, according to both sources.

For both Mesoamerican culture and the Book of Mormon all the following military features correspond:

Priestly/oracular guidance was sometimes sought in planning and conducting military operations.

The threat of internal war was the only sanction known or used to contain rebellion.

Feuds between peoples could last for generations.

Armed forces were composed of geographically based militia “armies”; there were no large standing armies. Mass hand-to-hand combat was the normal fighting mode.

The heads of local “armies” were called “captains,” (“chief captains,” etc.) who held rank according to a hierarchical pattern.

Companies of warriors were sometimes construed as “sons” of their captains.

The absolute numbers of warriors employed in Book of Mormon conflicts according to that record are equivalent to the numbers reported in Mesoamerican accounts of war.

Some Mesoamerican armies were composed of units of “10,000″ men, as were Nephite units at the time of their final war.

The most widespread form of fortification was made by excavating a dry moat, throwing the soil up on the inner bank against a timber palisade and building another line of erect timbers atop it.

At least five types of weapons used by Book of Mormon armies agree in detail with those used in Mesoamerica.

Moroni1 carried a virtual battle standard while rallying his forces. in Mexico a standard was strapped to a commander’s back as he mustered his force.

Mesoamerican wars sometimes continued until the victorious commander was able to “drink the blood” of the enemy leader. A Lamanite leader made that very threat against a Nephite captain.

Ideology and Religion (15 of 34)

A complex of 380 cultural patterns having to do with religion and ideology were present both in the civilization of the ancient Near East in the second and first millennia BC and in Mesoamerican civilization. The large number and arbitrary nature of those features is such that they can only be explained by calling upon transoceanic voyaging, plausibly including voyages reported in the Book of Mormon.

At least 62 (out of the 380) features are documented or implied in the Book of Mormon.

Mortality was viewed, by at least some Mesoamerican thinkers, like Nephite prophets, as a test of a person’s conformity to a set of moral standards, the degree ultimately to be a matter for divine judgment.

Some Book of Mormon people as much as certain Mesoamericans anticipated post-mortal residence in a “paradise” and ultimately a “resurrection.”

Spiritual renewal was symbolized by the idea of a seed or plant growing in the inner organs.

In certain times and cultures a Mesoamerican cult of salvation appeared that promised a pleasing state of immortality to observant persons. Of course the same was true of Book of Mormon believers.

A Mesoamerican myth of the “fall” of the “first couple” as a result of disobedience to the creator’s command compares substantially to story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden repeated in the Book of Mormon.

A Nephite belief in Jesus Christ, represented as an elevated (flying?) serpent whose teachings were capable of bringing about salvation, is similar in notable ways to the Quetzalcoatl or Feathered Serpent cult of Mexico that appeared near the time of Christ.

The practice described by Nephite historians as “priestcraft”—priestly exploitation of devotees for private economic gain—is documented in the Book of Mormon and is supposed by scholars to have been a common feature of Mesoamerican religious life.

Prophets, both legitimate and “false,” and “seers” who sometimes gazed into sacred, oracular stones, were shared features of religious life.

A form of ritual washing termed “baptism” was also shared

Sacrifice was a rite of worship both in the Mesoamerica and Mormon’s record. The commonest type of sacrifice was the shedding of the blood of an animal, although offerings of other substances were also made.

A form of communion was practiced both by Mesoamericana and Nephites in which food emblems representing the body of a savior deity were eaten.

Legends in Mesoamerica tell of the disappearance of special persons said to have been taken away without suffering death; some persons are characterized in the same manner in the Book of Mormon.

A pattern of ritual and belief (that is, elements of the cult that had arrived anciently from the Near East) was abruptly terminated in the first century AD, at least in southern Mesoamerica. This change corresponds in time, place, and in part in nature to that reported in the Book of Mormon at the time of Christ’s appearance to the Nephites when he commanded that the observances of the law of Moses cease.

Archaeology and History: Before 600 BC (four of 13)

The book of Ether’s picture of early Jaredite demography makes clear inferentially that an indigenous population already occupied the land where they arrived. That fact agrees with the scientific picture of Mexico in the third millennium BC.

A decline of the society in which the Jaredites lived took place over a period of several centuries before their extinction around 600 BC. The Olmec cultural tradition declined and disappeared from the culture history of Mexico on the same time scale.

The large archaeological site at San Lorenzo Tenochtitlan in the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, a preeminent Olmec city, coincided in time and nature with the “great city” built by Jaredite king Lib at a spot “by the narrow neck of land.”

The Jaredites used at least one writing system which their founders had brought from Mesopotamia. From three to perhaps five systems of writing were employed in Mesoamerica by the end of the Jaredite era.

Archaeology and History: 600 BC to about 1 BC, Part 1 (11 of 33)

Evidence is slight for direct transmission of Olmec cultural elements to later societies. The bearers of Olmec culture largely disappeared. Mormon’s record presents a reasonable inferential picture of how later cultures received limited influences from the Jaredite era.

Soon after their arrival in their promised land (presumably in Guatemala), the Nephites moved to nearby highlands where they became farmers. Lamanites remained in the lowlands where they lived by hunting and took on darker skins. Pacific lowlanders at the time of the Spanish conquest had notably darker skins than highlanders, for whatever reason.

Faces on small clay figurines from the Valley of Guatemala dated to about 300 BC have (skin) surfaces shaded white; figurines from Old World Jerusalem dated to 600 BC when Lehi’s party left there were all white. Some of those from Guatemala are also darker hued. These correspond to differences between “fair” Nephites and “dark” Lamanites. But about 200 BC the light-complexioned figurines ceased being made, about when Mosiah1 led the Nephites away to Zarahemla.

Near the time when Mosiah1‘s party left, some evidence of warfare is found in the archaeology of the valley of Guatemala along with a decrease in population that mirrors the Mosiah1 group’s departure.

A “Great Wall,” so named by archaeologists, 22-feet high, protected the ancient ruined city (now called Kaminaljuyu, near Guatemala City) during the sixth to third centuries BC. In concept, timing, and scale it was apparently similar to the wall built by the Nephites around the city of Nephi.

[lizrenowden]

Sounds like an interesting read

[Vort]

This is fascinating. I need to read it when I have time.

[Traveler]

In general I do not get too excited about reports like these. Although the information is in general interesting - it is also biased. If someone is going to make a list of recent discoveries that fit; they should also include the "facts" that does not fit so well also. It seems that all too often LDS and anti-LDS get caught up trying to get "facts" to fit a particular point of view.

This has lead to so many times in history that someone has thought to have made a great discovery - only to find that not all the evidence was considered properly. This is so true of religious history. (Prester John and the Templar’s being good examples)

I believe the attitude we should have in these things is that the claim that there is no evidence to support the Book of Mormon is both naive and ignorant. At the same time we need to understand that seldom is evidence conclusive as much as partial and circumstantial.

That aside - I personal believe that the time will come when the Book of Mormon will be proven to be historical although sketchy and lacking a lot of detail (in the same manner as some things have been proven in the Bible). But until proof is conclusive - it is fun to speculate. For example I have wondered if the fountain of youth sougtht by so many Spanish was not a spring but an ancient American symbol of Christ.

The Traveler

[livy111us]

It seems to be pretty straight forward. There isn't speculation on random BOM concepts, but only facts about Mesoamerican life, warfare, leadership, etc... and would be more difficult to conflate. When Sorenson publishes, you will be free to fact check his sources.

[RipplecutBuddha]

unfortunately, until there are some exactly translated place names that match the Book of Mormon, nobody will consider much of this as relevant. I agree it is fascinating, but because there are no directly matching locations with matching place names, and because the face of the land was changed dramatically at the time of Christ's death, at this point it is all but impossible to be confident of even these findings.

Don't get me wrong, he could actually be 100% right on. The fact is we don't know enough to be sure right now.

I'm with the others, the real proof of the Book of Mormon lies where it has always been found, personal sincere prayer to Heavenly Father. When the Holy Ghost confirms it to you, there are no questions, you know it.

[Traveler]

It seems to be pretty straight forward. There isn't speculation on random BOM concepts, but only facts about Mesoamerican life, warfare, leadership, etc... and would be more difficult to conflate. When Sorenson publishes, you will be free to fact check his sources.

I have no doubt that his sources are not spot on and come from the most reliable sources. What concerns me is the "cherry picking" that seems to take place in highlighting just the evidences that fit the Book of Mormon model in specific Ancient America societies.

For example we have found many Book of Mormon kind of evidences among the ancient Mayan civilization - but we have also found many Book of Mormon kinds of evidences among the ancient Hopi civilization. But the two civilizations, although they could of had some remote interchanges were very different and evolved from different genetically and geographical sources.

We may one day conclude that one of these civilizations was directly associated with the Book of Mormon but even the most liberal thinker realizes that the both civilizations are not likely actual Nephite or Laminite societies of the Book of Mormon.

But one thing for sure - Those that say there is no evidence of the Book of Mormon anywhere among any of the ancient American societies - is either lying in the face of a preponderance of evidence or greatly misinformed.

The Traveler

[captmoroniRM]

Interesting read, though at best, it is evidence that the Book of Mormon is an accurate historical document.

[carlimac]

Interesting read, though at best, it is evidence that the Book of Mormon is an accurate historical document.

Why the "though at best"? Isn't an accurate historical document a pretty big deal? How would Joseph Smith have known anything about Mesoamerica let alone details like this?

But I'm always catious about getting too excited about "evidence". It's intriguing but evidence can also play the role of faith shaker. Better to just read the Book of Mormon and let the spirit testify of it's truth.

[livy111us]

unfortunately, until there are some exactly translated place names that match the Book of Mormon, nobody will consider much of this as relevant. I agree it is fascinating, but because there are no directly matching locations with matching place names, and because the face of the land was changed dramatically at the time of Christ's death, at this point it is all but impossible to be confident of even these findings.

Don't get me wrong, he could actually be 100% right on. The fact is we don't know enough to be sure right now.

I'm with the others, the real proof of the Book of Mormon lies where it has always been found, personal sincere prayer to Heavenly Father. When the Holy Ghost confirms it to you, there are no questions, you know it.

I agree with the second half of your statement, but we need to remember, most of the geographical statements are provided by Mormon, who lived after the major land changes were made. This would mean that the geography that is mentioned in The Book of Mormon would match more closely to how things are today than how they were before Christ came.

Personally, I am into more of a cultural geography than a physical geography. I like to match BOM peoples, customs, teachings, government, etc... which is why I like this stuff so much. Once we find the group of people that match BOM people the closest, then it is wise to start looking for matching geographical features, IMO.

[livy111us]

I have no doubt that his sources are not spot on and come from the most reliable sources. What concerns me is the "cherry picking" that seems to take place in highlighting just the evidences that fit the Book of Mormon model in specific Ancient America societies.

For example we have found many Book of Mormon kind of evidences among the ancient Mayan civilization - but we have also found many Book of Mormon kinds of evidences among the ancient Hopi civilization. But the two civilizations, although they could of had some remote interchanges were very different and evolved from different genetically and geographical sources.

We may one day conclude that one of these civilizations was directly associated with the Book of Mormon but even the most liberal thinker realizes that the both civilizations are not likely actual Nephite or Laminite societies of the Book of Mormon.

But one thing for sure - Those that say there is no evidence of the Book of Mormon anywhere among any of the ancient American societies - is either lying in the face of a preponderance of evidence or greatly misinformed.

The Traveler

What would you recommend then? If we want to begin looking for matches between BOM and known cultures, we would need to begin to make connections somewhere. A culture should not have a 100% match on every detail to be BOM peoples. In the BOM itself we have numerous groups of people that shared, generally speaking, similar ideas (Nephites, Jacobites, "and all manner of -ites." We also have differing religious practices like the Zoramites, people of Ammonihah, Lamanites, etc...) So unless we were looking at the exact group of Nephites who the BOM actually records, in the right time period (because even one group of Nephites *never* had the same constant devotion to their religious practices) we would find similarities but nothing exactly the same.

This is why, IMO, the evidences listed above carry more weight than anything else. Because they are not confined to just one group in The BOM or in a physical Indian group.

There is also quite a bit of evidence that the Maya and the Hopi had close ties. There is genetic, archaeological, ritual, agricultural, and other evidence that the Hopi were connected to the Maya intimately. But that is another subject for another day.

[Traveler]

What would you recommend then? If we want to begin looking for matches between BOM and known cultures, we would need to begin to make connections somewhere. A culture should not have a 100% match on every detail to be BOM peoples. In the BOM itself we have numerous groups of people that shared, generally speaking, similar ideas (Nephites, Jacobites, "and all manner of -ites." We also have differing religious practices like the Zoramites, people of Ammonihah, Lamanites, etc...) So unless we were looking at the exact group of Nephites who the BOM actually records, in the right time period (because even one group of Nephites *never* had the same constant devotion to their religious practices) we would find similarities but nothing exactly the same.

This is why, IMO, the evidences listed above carry more weight than anything else. Because they are not confined to just one group in The BOM or in a physical Indian group.

There is also quite a bit of evidence that the Maya and the Hopi had close ties. There is genetic, archaeological, ritual, agricultural, and other evidence that the Hopi were connected to the Maya intimately. But that is another subject for another day.

I am not saying that we should not study ancient cultures for B of M similarities - what I am saying is that if we are taking a scientific approach (which we should be in considering any hard physical evidence) we should not be ignoring or excluding data that does not fit our model. That is how dinosaurs for so long were assumed cold blooded.

We need to look at all the body of evidence available - then we can make assumptions and try to justify our conclusions. But if we exclude any evidence in our explanation - it cannot be called scientific but pseudo science. It is the essence of the man made global warming arguments. It leads to overreached and incorrect assumptions.

The Traveler

[captmoroniRM]

Why the "though at best"? Isn't an accurate historical document a pretty big deal? How would Joseph Smith have known anything about Mesoamerica let alone details like this?

But I'm always catious about getting too excited about "evidence". It's intriguing but evidence can also play the role of faith shaker. Better to just read the Book of Mormon and let the spirit testify of it's truth.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a big deal that proving the Book of Mormon is a valid historical document. Defenders of the Bible often use the historical evidence supporting the biblical stories as proof that it is a true book, and contains the word of God, but all it does is prove that the book is old and accurate in its account of history. It does nothing to prove that Jesus is the Christ, or that following its precepts will lead one to salvation.

The same goes for the Book of Mormon. Even if it could be proven that Nephi and Alma really existed and that the wars and peoples described in it were real, it wouldn't prove it is the word of God. Yes, it would raise eyebrows as to how Joseph Smith new about these civilizations before archeologists did, but only living/applying the precepts taught in it and heeding Moroni's challenge will prove the book is the word of God.

[JoshK]

I'm a history major, so the historical accuracy of the Book of Mormon is always an interesting discussion. I look forward to reading the whole paper when it is available. It won't change anything for me, but it will be fun to read for the "gee whiz" factor.

[Traveler]

interesting stuff, although the best BoM evidence comes through a witness of the Holy Ghost.

Who told you that? :)

The Traveler

[Blackmarch]

unfortunately, until there are some exactly translated place names that match the Book of Mormon, nobody will consider much of this as relevant. I agree it is fascinating, but because there are no directly matching locations with matching place names, and because the face of the land was changed dramatically at the time of Christ's death, at this point it is all but impossible to be confident of even these findings.

Don't get me wrong, he could actually be 100% right on. The fact is we don't know enough to be sure right now.

I'm with the others, the real proof of the Book of Mormon lies where it has always been found, personal sincere prayer to Heavenly Father. When the Holy Ghost confirms it to you, there are no questions, you know it.

Id like to point out that an exactly translated name may not be phonetically identical or similar tonwhat we have in the BoM.

What interests me are the names that are descriptions, such as the land bountiful.

[Convert55]

A few years ago while my wife was searching out some of her Cherokee roots she came across a description of the Green Corn Dance or Green Corn Ceremony. Several of the South East Indian tribes have such a ceremony it seems. This particular account dated around the early 1800s if I recall correctly, mentioned that the ceremony took place near an earthen mound. At the end of the ceremony that they held once a year, the chief entered the mound and brought forth some metal plates that had writing on them that no one could any longer read.

I tried to google up this account but couldn’t find it so just chalk it off as hearsay unless my wife can re-find it again.

But, since writing on plates is a major theme of the Book of Mormon, I would think that something like that would spark some interest from others and excitement from us if it were found in these days.

[Vort]

A few years ago while my wife was searching out some of her Cherokee roots she came across a description of the Green Corn Dance or Green Corn Ceremony. Several of the South East Indian tribes have such a ceremony it seems. This particular account dated around the early 1800s if I recall correctly, mentioned that the ceremony took place near an earthen mound. At the end of the ceremony that they held once a year, the chief entered the mound and brought forth some metal plates that had writing on them that no one could any longer read.

I tried to google up this account but couldn’t find it so just chalk it off as hearsay unless my wife can re-find it again.

But, since writing on plates is a major theme of the Book of Mormon, I would think that something like that would spark some interest from others and excitement from us if it were found in these days.

Native American Netroots:: The Green Corn Ceremony

Among some groups, such as the Tuckabahchee and the Seminole, the Green Corn Ceremony was the time when sacred objects, such as brass and copper plates and medicine bundles, were renewed and publicly displayed. Among the Seminole, this is the time when the medicine bundle is renewed.

[Convert55]

As to the plates - I found one mention so far at

Native American Netroots:: The Green Corn Ceremony

Among some groups, such as the Tuckabahchee and the Seminole, the Green Corn Ceremony was the time when sacred objects, such as brass and copper plates and medicine bundles, were renewed and publicly displayed. Among the Seminole, this is the time when the medicine bundle is renewed.

This one says nothing about writing, but the one I remember did mention writing.

[Convert55]

My wife found the reference to the Indian copper plates. So as not to hi-jack this thread I will create a new thread.

[livy111us]

Last I read, maize was introduced in that area around 200 BC from Mesoamerica. Since Maize is what is celebrated, it could not exist before that time. Part of the Green Corn Ceremony is blood-letting, a very popular practice among the Mayans. I wonder if the ceremony was picked up from Mesoamerican traders a few centuries BC?