Masons????


Luna-in-love
 Share

Recommended Posts

So I recently found out that my fiance wants to join the FreeMasons. I was quite shocked as he didnt tell me anything before.

My first idea was that although I dont know much about them - the membership in such organisation is not compatible with the Church membership.

But he says, that on his mission he met some leaders that were masons and they were good men. His bishop also recommended him to join.

I told him if that's what he wants to do - I will support him. But I have a heavy heart when I think about it - though they say they are not a religion they very much are to me.

What do I do? Maybe someone knows something about the compatiblity of the church membership and free masonry?

I am lost. We are going to marry soon, but I am scared since it's a secret organisation and I dont want any secrets in my family and anything that contradicts the Gospel.

THank you so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Freemasons are a good group that in no way contradict the Church. There is a lot of good that they do and there is no opposition at all from the Church. Joseph Smith was a mason along with countless other leaders.

I heard that too. Although never met a mention of it in any Church litterature.

Just of the top of my head - I dont like how they pray and how they "worship" masters of the Grand Lodge.. I mean.. we dont even call the prophets "worshupful"...

Funnily enough, leaders have different opinions about that :) His bishop said it's a good thing and he should join, my bishop said it's not good :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I'm understanding on Wiki (I haven't read the whole article), Freemasonry is not a political or religious organisation, and each member is to declare their own Supreme Being (religious faith) -- be it God, Allah, whatever. It seems their primary focus is on good deeds, specifically, charitable events. If this is correct information, I don't see any harm in its membership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am currently the Worshipful Master (President) of my lodge in Midvale Utah. I have been a Mason for almost 5 years and a member of the Church for my entire life. I had wanted to be a Mason for quite a long time before I joined the lodge, I had waited until I was married to join and my wife had some of the same concerns that you posted in your OP, and probably some that you hadn't voiced. She went so far as to write a letter to the First Presidency about my joining. They responded, through the Assistant to the First Presidency, and basically said:

There is nothing wrong with a member of the Church joining a Masonic Lodge, or any other volunteer organization (elks, kiwanis, lions, etc). The "problem" is when the dedication to these organizations overwhelms and competes with responsibilities in the home and related to callings and volunteering in the Church.

This has been my stand on Masonry since this time. Masonry encourages me to be a better man, serve my fellow man, be dedicated to my religious convictions, and many more things. I find that dedicating an hour here and there to Lodge is a lot more spiritually refining than spending an hour at the T.V. or the computer (even on lds.net:D).

Regarding your concerns about Freemasonry being a Religion, the best source I can give is this Freemasonry and Religion, this is the website of the Masonic Service Association of North America. It more concisely answers why many view Masonry as a religion and Masonry's actual relationship to Religion.

Secrecy! Masonry does have secrets, and I am not going to try to hide that there aren't. However, the secrets that it has is nothing that can come between a husband and wife, the secrets are traditional modes of recognition, that in all truth can be found with a simple Google search. There is another set of "secrets" that happen in Masonry that truly cannot be communicated, even between Masons. By this I mean, in Lodge we are presented with symbols and philosophies that each takes to heart and uses according to themselves. Due to my outlook on life (faith, history, etc) I view these symbols differently than anyone else who might study them, hence they are secret. Let me ask, if your fiance worked for KFC and was privy to the "secret" recipe of 11 herbs and spices, would you demand that he told you the "secret" recipe, even if it meant him losing his job, probably being sued for disclosure of Intellectual Property, etc. The argument, in some cases, that there are not secrets between a husband and wife is a lofty goal that in some cases cannot be upheld. I will say this, there are no "secrets" in lodge that I would be distraught if or would ruin my relationship and marriage if my wife "found out."

I am more than happy to answer any and all question you and your fiance may have about Masonry in general, and specifically any concern that you as a member of the Church might have regarding Masonry. If you live around the Salt Lake Area or the surrounding communities, I am more than happy to meet you and your fiance and show you around the Masonic Temple in Midvale and answer any questions in person. Please hold nothing back.

Also, as a word of advice for your fiance (and this "counsel" I have given to other would be Masons), if this is something that would cause contention in the home than it is not worth joining. Any "hobby" that has the potential to take a lot of time should be discussed between Husband and Wife and a mutual decision should be made.

Hope this helps, and once again, I am more than happy to answer ANY question you might have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow. Thank you Chubbs for dedicating your time to writing this post. It did answer a lot of my questions and I especially liked the letter from the First Presidency part.:D

We live verrrry far away from Salt Lake otherwise I would surely love to meet you and talk to you. ;)

Honesty, I still don't like the "secrets" thing and IMHO it's not comparable to the KFC recipe. You always fear the unknown, and so I get thoughts like "I am here home with the kids and my husband is at some meeting sipping blood from the skull" :D.. you know.

It is very uplifting though, that so many faitfhul leaders have been/are members of this organisation.

I just want to get it sorted out now. We had an argument about this today and my fiance said the funniest thing: "I hate arguing with you, because you are better than me at arguing. It feels like my own words are a weapon against me" :D:D:D

Chubbs, if you don't mind, another question. How does your wife feel about masonry now? and does she relate in any way to this organisation? I was told there are meetings for women also, etc (though they can't be members if I am not mistaken)..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I recently found out that my fiance wants to join the FreeMasons. I was quite shocked as he didnt tell me anything before.

My first idea was that although I dont know much about them - the membership in such organisation is not compatible with the Church membership.

But he says, that on his mission he met some leaders that were masons and they were good men. His bishop also recommended him to join.

I told him if that's what he wants to do - I will support him. But I have a heavy heart when I think about it - though they say they are not a religion they very much are to me.

What do I do? Maybe someone knows something about the compatiblity of the church membership and free masonry?

I am lost. We are going to marry soon, but I am scared since it's a secret organisation and I dont want any secrets in my family and anything that contradicts the Gospel.

Thank you so much.

My husband and I are Mormons and my husband is a Mason and has been since 1974 (before we ever joined the LDS church). My husband has also held the Masonic office of "Worshipful Master" and trust me when I tell you that NO ONE (Mason or Otherwise) ever has worshiped him or anyone else holding that office with the very fancy name. Actually I read your post to my husband and we both got a chuckle out of that one.

I personally am a member of two ladies Masonic Organizations and we hold titles like Princess, Queen, even Priestess.

Our children have been in Rainbow Girls and DeMolay the girls and boys Masonic organizations. (Fancy titles for offices there too).

BUT the Masonic organizations are definitely NOT religious, nor do they have a doctrine.

Very high values are a focus and becoming a better person. There is a lot of fun and fellowship and Masons and their wives and children are members of many religions, catholic, protestant, LDS, Jewish you name it.

The reason it is confidential (hate using the word "secret") is because there are those who do not understand the symbolism and ritual and would seek to seek out against it and defame it. Joseph Smith was indeed a Mason,. as was many of our founding fathers of our country.

If you have been to (LDS) Temple (or when you do), you will find some similarities between the LDS Temple and Masonic ritual. Rituals in both is a type of role playing, and "Worshipful Masters" or similar titles are not much different than Temple symbols. I will. not go into more detail.

If a person is agressive in knowing about Masonic rituals there are books out there so it is not all that "secret." However I caution against that method of seeking only because there are a lot of Anti Mason books out there that are far from the truth, just as their are Anti Mormon books that are far from the truth.

I find no incompatability with being a Mormon and a Mason.

No need to worry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As with all "secret societies" (LDS included!) there is a lot of rumor and innuendo by those who are not part of the group. (Is this not true of any group?)

Masons do not worship one another or worship the grand lodge. Truth be known, anyone is welcome to join if they are 1. adult male, 2. not atheist.

Females cannot become Masons but are welcome to join as members of the "Eastern Star". This is not different than men holding the Melchizedek priesthood and females being in the relief society, or boys being in boy scouts and girls in girl scouts. Eastern Star is part of Masonry as much as the men and all belong to the same Lodge.

Lodges are referred to as Blue Lodges and constitute the first 3 degrees. Lodges are based on the Temple of Solomon and there are many similarities to LDS teachings and it is in no way incompatible. Also Masonry lodges are not like meeting halls in that there is no sacrament, speakers etc. More like who we will be donating our charity to this month, this year.. new scholarships, etc.

No one is told who/how/what to worship. If anything masonry is like mormonism. Masons discuss things related to becoming better men through service. Whats so bad about that? I would encourage you to support your fiance and discuss your concerns openly with him, and if it continues to bother you to go to the Temple with him and seek guidance from your Heavenly Father and discuss it with him. No one will be loosing a recommend over his joining -if so you need to seek out the stake presidency.

I found out it was not a conflict before I joined as a precaution. I also did research myself.

I am a 32° Master Mason, and it isn't the big deal people make it out to be. ;)

I have not violated any rules posting this information and the information is freely available. The only secrets around nowadays are those of our own as LDS, and even most of them are online somewhere. Just beware of misinformation.

I hope that was helpful.

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very eye-opening! Thanks to the above three posters.

Since my husband and I don't have any secrets, and are complete open books, becoming affiliated with the Freemasons would not be for us (him). But very interesting stuff, indeed! Looks like there's a lot of members out there and around us :]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am hesitant about the masons purely because Joseph Smith called on them in Carthage and they ignored him. He recognized members of the mob as being fellow masons. I am sure a lot of the antagonism still felt stems from this.

My great grandfather was a high level mason, not LDS though. He was Methodist I believe. He is the one person in my family that is the most loved and respected for being a good man. Even my awful grandmother loved him. Probably the only person she ever did love in her life.

That counts for a lot in my opinion for what it is worth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very eye-opening! Thanks to the above three posters.

Since my husband and I don't have any secrets, and are complete open books, becoming affiliated with the Freemasons would not be for us (him). But very interesting stuff, indeed! Looks like there's a lot of members out there and around us :]

Like any organization it is not for everyone.

In reality there are always secrets between spouses of some kind.. Even in the LDS Temple there are secrets between men and women. I know I had a bigger problem with the name secret at the Temple (and I'm the wife of a Mason).

I have found that all of entire family Masonic affiliations became something we did together as a family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like any organization it is not for everyone.

In reality there are always secrets between spouses of some kind.. Even in the LDS Temple there are secrets between men and women. I know I had a bigger problem with the name secret at the Temple (and I'm the wife of a Mason).

I have found that all of entire family Masonic affiliations became something we did together as a family.

My husband and I don't have any secrets.

Not knocking the Mason thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, Volund :).. Can you please specify the things you do there. And how often do you meet?

Lodges meeting times/days vary per lodge. Most regular members meet once a month. Some lodges "go dark" (think of it as keeping the lights off) for a few months out of the year and do not meet at all during that time. Some lodges just meet for an hour to discuss how to appropriate their charity. We met up around 6pm for dinner in our banquet hall where we discussed work, gardening, charity, volunteering, recent events, or food (a favorite subject). The Eastern Star members would prepare the dinner, and the men would help too if they like. Donations would be taken as you arrive. On the walls hung pictures of the lodge members that held office (called chairs) for as long as the lodge has existed. Pride is taken in the antiquity and longevity of each lodge. This dinner is open to members and guests. After dinner the guests depart and the men met in the meeting hall for business.

Sometimes we would have pancake breakfasts to raise money for different things.

The children also have "clubs" they can join. The boys may join chapters of DeMolay, so named after the famous Knight Templar betrayed by the Catholic Church. This is similar to scouting and they learn morality and charity. The girls join groups called Bethels (Jobs' Daughters) and I cannot say what they do because I am not familiar with it. (sorry, I have a son and have not yet been blessed with daughters so I have no experience in that). For more info click here

I used to be active in DeMolay with my son. They would have fund raisers in the form of Spaghetti dinners to pay for things like trips to the museum or dances held on a river boat (like paddle boats on the Mississippi) with the Bethels. What is nice is the boys themselves are responsible for their own expenses and run the organization themselves. They even did all the cooking for their fundraising -with supervision of course. They elect and appoint their own officers and have meetings. The "Dads" intervene when and if needed but that is rare (for example the boys decide to spend all their moneys on something not in line with common sense).

I am grateful for the time I spent in DeMolay and at the Lodge. :)

Edited by Volund
specified wording because they can meet any day of the week, i do not know of any that meet on Sundays.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My girls were never in Job's Daughter rather Rainbow Girls which is another girls Masonic organization 13-18 age range and the values taught and the fun they had doing good work for the community is something that lasts a lifetime. Much like Girl Scouts but much more.

Meetings can be as often as once a week depending on where the Lodge is, but many are bi monthly or monthly with a lot of social activity. Although the men have meetings that women are not a party to, it is no different than Priesthood at the Church as woman do not attend Priesthood meetings. Another similarity is that men do attend Eastern Star meetings much like a Priesthood holder would attend and over see a Relief Society enrichment meeting.

I see a lot of similarity. There is secrecy between men and women in the Church especially in the Temple. And although they are supposed to be secret, many couples share the "secrecy" which is no big deal regardless of it being among Masons and their wives or Temple Mormons and their wives.

One other thing not mentioned is that although the general public seems to be wary of Masons, they seem respect and hold Shriners in the highest regard. Ironically, you must be a Mason to become a Shriner. And ironically Shriners drink alcohol at their functions whereas Masons do not. I think there is a lack of understanding.

For the person whose husband plans to become a Mason, you may very much enjoy the socializing among other wives and families. It's all good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As much as I like Gramps here is my concern. One does not have to be invited per se to join Masonry like he states, it is misleading. Anyone can go into a Lodge and seek membership. However, someone does need to vouche for their character. There are rules to join anything of worth, just like the multiple rules to become a convert with LDS. One could also say that you cannot become LDS without being invited, and that is also true to a certain extent. I am sure he means well but I will divert the subject to President Dieter F. Uchtdorf. (Liahona article)

Also, his statement about if living by a Temple why not spend the time their instead... Well thats admirable, but substitute what he is saying about time not spent in Masonry with "or on the internet" or "flying a plane, or a boat" -or just flat out say we do not need hobbies (that are distracting) -this is what President Uchtdorf is saying more clearly and I am sure gramps means to say, otherwise I would be very concerned.

I can debunk anything by saying the time is better spent at a Temple. An hour a month for 8 or nine months a year is more than most masons obligate themselves to (and not even a requirement as there is no such thing as active or inactive status in Masonry), and as it is in a form of service.

Gramps is entitled to his opinion, but it appears based on third party opinion and not his experience (maybe it is based on a bad experience, who knows). I admit, it can be a timesink if allowed to be. Then again so is facebook, gardening, shopping or sleeping. Bottomline is hobbies, like all things, should not interfere with Priesthood Service (I believe this is what Gramps was trying to say which agrees with President Uchtdorf).

Masonry teaches that the day is divided into 24 hours. 8 for work, 8 for rest, and 8 for service to Heavenly Father (service).

I am not trying to be divisive, I hope that was helpful. Gramps is not "wrong", but just needs a little more clarification on Time Management. :)

Edited by Volund
clarification
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow. Thank you Chubbs for dedicating your time to writing this post. It did answer a lot of my questions and I especially liked the letter from the First Presidency part.:D

We live verrrry far away from Salt Lake otherwise I would surely love to meet you and talk to you. ;)

Honesty, I still don't like the "secrets" thing and IMHO it's not comparable to the KFC recipe. You always fear the unknown, and so I get thoughts like "I am here home with the kids and my husband is at some meeting sipping blood from the skull" :D.. you know.

It is very uplifting though, that so many faitfhul leaders have been/are members of this organisation.

I just want to get it sorted out now. We had an argument about this today and my fiance said the funniest thing: "I hate arguing with you, because you are better than me at arguing. It feels like my own words are a weapon against me" :D:D:D

Chubbs, if you don't mind, another question. How does your wife feel about masonry now? and does she relate in any way to this organisation? I was told there are meetings for women also, etc (though they can't be members if I am not mistaken)..

Sorry for the delay, I have ironically been at a Lodge Picnic this afternoon. The KFC recipe is comparable if you know the secrets!;) By this I mean, the only reason that it is a secret is because we promise to make it a secret, as has been pointed out earlier, the secrets are freely available online and I actually own various books, all bought at Barnes and Noble, that explicitly show or tell the "secrets." I have never drank flood from a skull, or any other bone for that matter (even if others will tell you I'm lying to hide my sins). Joseph Smith said, this is from "The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith" Collectors Edition page 259 under the "Temporal Economy-Care of the Poor" section--"The secret of Masonry is to keep a secret." That's really it! Nothing nefarious is intended, and is very much like KFC's recipe, in the fact that they are secrets because they are secrets, not because we are trying to hide something.

My wife loves Masonry and what it adds to my life and our life. My wife is from Florida and had no family in Utah. Members of Canyon Lodge, my lodge, quickly made her feel welcome and truly became a second family for her. She is close friends to many of the members' wives and we regularly do things with these families. Masonry has truly become a part of her life as well. There are organizations for wives and female members of a Mason's family, however my wife doesn't participate in any of these organizations.

I also noticed in another post your concern about the "Worshipful Master" of a lodge. Every single lodge has a "Worshipful Master" who is the equivalent of the president of the organization for 1 year, or in some states, 2. One thing about the word Worshipful is how it is used and how it originated, Freemasonry originates in England in 1717, so we have to use what the British people may have meant when they decided on the term Worshipful. Dictionary.com says this, "chiefly ( Brit ) ( often capital ) a title used to address or refer to various people or bodies of distinguished rank, such as mayors and certain ancient companies of the City of London" The mayor of London is still referenced as Worshipful and there is still The Worshipful Company of Liveries in London. As Masons we use Worshipful with this definition in mind, to distinguish him among his peers for the one year that he serves, much like we in America use the term President.

As mentioned earlier, I am currently serving my lodge as "Worshipful Master" and after some meetings I would just wish for a thank-you or your doing a good job!

About arguing, welcome to marriage! Honestly, the question that you and your fiance need to ask is, "Is this something that might edify your future marriage or drag it down?" Masonry has edified my marriage and me spiritually, a lot more than sitting in front of the Television watching the weekly football game. What would you rather have your future husband doing?

Hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate when when I meant to say something and forgot :)

For some reason Masonry seems to be a lightning rod for debate in the church, and I usually use the Temple Recommend questions to support the idea that my membership in the fraternity is not "bad" or "wrong."

The Temple Recommend questions can be found here:

Temple Recommend Questions

First, there is not a question about Masonry. Second, Question #7 could be used to reference Masonry, "Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?" If the only group I belong to is Masonry, the answer is an emphatic "NO." There is nothing in the "teachings or practices" in Masonry that is "contrary to or oppose" those of the Church. In fact, I find the teachings and practices of Masonry to encourage me to participate in my Church.

Just another idea I had to post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chubbs, I enjoyed your explanation of the title of Worshipful Master. I did not know that.

Luna,

I would not be too concerned about the names of the titles.

When we first joined the church we became friends with a man who was a former Bishop who was definitely very energetic and he was also a Past Worshipful Master, and also a "High Priest and Prophet" in the Shriners (another group of Masons) who trust me that title has nothing to do with religion other than they lead the prayer before a social dinner. And as Chubbs pointed out they only hold these offices and respective titles for a year.

My husband held the office of Worshipful Master twice although not in the same year because it was a small town and a small lodge so members took a second turn around so to speak.

As for worrying about your husband having "a secret" give some thought to the difference between secret and deceit. There is a big difference. I think sometimes people define secret in a negative sense and compare it to deceitfulness or dishonesty; which is not the case in this topic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My father was a freemason before he joined the church. My father no longer is one because he had a choice: either pay a tithing to the church, or pay tithing to the freemasons. He chose paying tithing to the church, however, if my father had more income I think he would have paid for both.

I have a friend who made a personal decision not to join the freemasons because he felt like it contradicted the church.

It really comes down to a personal choice.

If he decides to become a freemason, and you don't like it or can't support it, then I am going to be blunt, you may want to rethink about marriage with him, if you can't support it.

Marriage comes with its own difficulties. This will be a sore spot for you if he joins and you can't support him, especially if he wants to pay his dues, and you aren't fond of your joint money going to a group you don't support.

These are my thoughts, my thoughts alone, take them how your will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tithing to masonry? You're father belonged to a different masonry than most, we don't pay tithing. We do pay annual dues, my lodge's dues are $75.00 for the year.

A point of clarification, due to the fact that tithing has certain connotations, religious and a tenth of income come to my mind quite quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Completely agree that it comes down to personal choice.

But don't understand the tithing comment. No way are Masons asked to tithe and annual Lodge dues are very nominal (depending on what you drive less than one tank of gas).

Marriage is all about trust and compromise. This really goes beyond whether someone wants to join the Masons. I think it is about good couple communication. What if you want to be involved in a ladies group, or a sewing club, or take up golf for a hobby or any other hobby. What is important is that a couple supports mutually support each other no matter what the hobby or activity, and base the marriage on mutual respect and trust.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But don't understand the tithing comment. No way are Masons asked to tithe and annual Lodge dues are very nominal (depending on what you drive less than one tank of gas).

I am providing the language my father used. He mentioned, due to income, he had a choice 10% to the church or 10% to the freemasons.

I have never looked into myself, so I can't answer your question, I can only explain what my father shared with me. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share