Adultery preferable to pornography?

[Vort]

I have read that some LDS sisters (specifically, some along the Wasatch Front) have stated that they would prefer their husbands commit real, live, honest-to-badness, flesh-to-flesh adultery than that they view pornography. Being naive as I am, I cannot believe anyone (except maybe those who get perverse joy out of cheating husbands) would actually believe this. Am I wrong? Is there anyone other than the occasional rare nutjob who actually believes that pornography viewing -- awful though it may be -- is actually worse than adultery? Is this anything like a common belief in some areas of Mormondom?

[applepansy]

I've never heard of that belief.

As a woman I can understand thinking you can fight another flesh N blood person but how to you compete against the myths of porn.

[Guest]

Never heard of it.

I've heard the opposite, though.

[Wingnut]

Vort, I'm with you -- I just don't get it. But I have actually heard people state that preference before.

[Misshalfway]

I get it.

In reality, it's all painful! But I think this sentiment comes from feeling exquisit pain and wishing your lot were different.

And I think I can understand because there is a difference between having something hard and fast hit you, and dealing with something as long term and insidious as compulsive porn use. At least with adultery, it's a clean break and I can focus on picking up the pieces and making needful decisions. With porn use, you are lied to constantly. You are always questioning what is real. You are being manipulated and pressured. Intimate relations are hard and difficult on every level. There is constant fear and repetitive trauma. And often people (bishops included) blame the spouse and pressure them into more loss of self in the name of forgiveness.

I've often thought that drug addiction would be easier than sex addiction. At least, you'd know when the person was high! And at least others would understand what you were going through. On second thought though, I wouldn't want that experience either.

[Guest]

I get it.

In reality, it's all painful! But I think this sentiment comes from feeling exquisit pain and wishing your lot were different.

And I think I can understand because there is a difference between having something hard and fast hit you, and dealing with something as long term and insidious as compulsive porn use. At least with adultery, it's a clean break and I can focus on picking up the pieces and making needful decisions. With porn use, you are lied to constantly. You are always questioning what is real. You are being manipulated and pressured. Intimate relations are hard and difficult on every level. There is constant fear and repetitive trauma. And often people (bishops included) blame the spouse and pressure them into more loss of self in the name of forgiveness.

I've often thought that drug addiction would be easier than sex addiction. At least, you'd know when the person was high! And at least others would understand what you were going through. On second thought though, I wouldn't want that experience either.

Misshalfway, the bolded part above can be replaced with "With adultery" as well. And more often than not, adultery is not a clean break where you can focus on picking up pieces and such. More often than not, it is a repetitive behavior and even when it is not, trust is forever compromised.

[Traveler]

I have read that some LDS sisters (specifically, some along the Wasatch Front) have stated that they would prefer their husbands commit real, live, honest-to-badness, flesh-to-flesh adultery than that they view pornography. Being naive as I am, I cannot believe anyone (except maybe those who get perverse joy out of cheating husbands) would actually believe this. Am I wrong? Is there anyone other than the occasional rare nutjob who actually believes that pornography viewing -- awful though it may be -- is actually worse than adultery? Is this anything like a common belief in some areas of Mormondom?

Pornography as a term can be a wide brush - covering everything from Sports Illustrated Swim Suit edition to graphic exploration of children and all manner of preserve possibilities. Adultery can also be a range of behavior. None of which is becoming to a saint of G-d.

We all like to think what-ever sin we engage in is less that someone else’s. The point is that sin hurts far more than the sinner. It destroys what is important - mainly families. I vote that both adultery and pornography will destroy and if left un-repented - either one - and an eternal family will be broken. If it is broken a lot are an awful lot - it is still broken.

The Traveler

[bytor2112]

Hard to imagine how......"Honey, I have recently been viewing some XXX web sites" ...could be worse than...." Honey, I have recently been meeting my co-worker at the Holiday Inn for an afternoon of......"

Maybe it's the idea that with pornography its a "filthy", "perverse" and "disgusting" thing and with adultery, it could be associate/explained with some sort of intimacy or ill-advised and maybe unplanned relationship. In other words a mistake, rather than "porn addiction".

Edited August 14, 2012 by bytor2112

[annewandering]

Dealing with a porn addiction is like dealing with any addiction. Its a today I am clean. Tomorrow is something to deal with tomorrow thing. Adultery might occur again but unless its a sex addiction it is not a constant struggle. My son has a 3 years clean coin for alcohol but he knows that today is all he can concentrate on. Tomorrow is not here yet.

Porn is so easy to find. A moment of weakness and you are beginning the struggle all over again. Adultery at least requires some thought and time. It is just not as easy.

Adultery is also very clear cut. Either you did or didnt. Porn you can debate forever if you want.

I can see why someone would say such a thing. Dont know if I agree. Would have to think about it but I do see the reasoning.

[NeuroTypical]

I'm guessing here, but this line of reasoning would make sense to me: You can compete against some chick. You can't compete against the false perfection of pr0n.

[Guest]

It never occurred to me to have a preference.

[classylady]

I'm with you Eowyn. Both adultery and pornography addiction would be difficult and painful to deal with.

[Windseeker]

Just some random thoughts.

I find it utterly believable and even suffered at the idea that the two sins are commensurate.

What is more likely to result in being disfellowshipped or excommunicated from the church. I’ve never heard of anyone going thru church discipline who has struggled with standard pornography. I’ve worked with missionaries who struggled with this and still found worthy to serve the Lord and complete their missions. I’ve never heard that happening with fornication let alone adultery.

Is the heart and soul as fully engaged when viewing pornography as it is when committing adultery? Is either more or less a betrayal? Is one easier to forgive than another. Is one more or less likely to destroy the family?

We often hear adultery compared to murder in seriousness, murder being the greater sin, wouldn’t you assume that the wanton virtual murder and violence so common in first person shooters would be a greater sin than pornography?

I do believe pornography is much more destructive than violent video games and believe adultery is a much greater sin than viewing pornography.

[Wingnut]

What is more likely to result in being disfellowshipped or excommunicated from the church. I’ve never heard of anyone going thru church discipline who has struggled with standard pornography.

Really? I personally know someone who lost his temple recommend -- temporarily -- after confessing pornography addiction to his bishop.

I’ve worked with missionaries who struggled with this and still found worthy to serve the Lord and complete their missions. I’ve never heard that happening with fornication let alone adultery.

I had a mission companion who lived with her boyfriend for two years prior to returning to activity in the church and serving a mission.

[Windseeker]

I had a mission companion who lived with her boyfriend for two years prior to returning to activity in the church and serving a mission.

I'm talking about while serving a mission. Are you saying she commited Adultery on her mission and was allowed to stay? I know several missionaries that struggled with pornography and mb and were allowed to complete their missions with honor.

[Windseeker]

Wouldn't most who struggle with pornography prefer the real deal over a visual simulation; all things being equal?

..honestly this thread is discouraging, as discouraging as those who think sharing porn with the wife excuses the sin

[annewandering]

Wouldn't most who struggle with pornography prefer the real deal over a visual simulation; all things being equal?

good question but I dont think so. its a different thing. porn is solo, mostly. it doesnt require putting yourself out there in any emotional, connecting way.

Porn and adultery really are not very comparable. Yes both are about sex but in very different ways and reasons.

[MrShorty]

I've heard the "I can compete against a real person but not a (perfect) virtual person" reasoning, and it kind of makes sense. However, it seems very unlikely that a spouse would leave you to virtually go live with a virtual person, where, with a real person, there's a real chance the spouse will decide, "I'm leaving you to live with the other man/woman."

Maybe addiction explains it, but people like Dr. Willard Harley frequently compare an affair to an addiction. I'm not sure it would really hold water.

In a completely different vein, here's a hypothesis (it may or may not be a good hypothesis, but it is a hypothesis nonetheless). Could it be that those who feel porn use is worse than adultery are not really reflecting the reality of peoples experiences, but are reflecting the amount of discussion and emphasis we have placed on the two topics in the church. Over the last 15 or so years, we have been talking about pornography a lot. It even seemed like every general conference for several years had a talk devoted to the evils of pornography. How often in our recent public discourse have we really discussed the evils of adultery? Not near as much. Maybe, just maybe, this is a measure of how much we talk about the two sins rather than a real measure of which is worse than the other.

[annewandering]

I think I am reading the op question, not to mean porn is worse, but that adultery is easier to deal with. Adultery has to be the more serious sin.

[unworthyservant]

consider this quote from lauren johnson (a 30 something single lds blogger/podcaster)

"....ya know, I've said to my friends... I'd rather marry a man who has slept around a ton, than a guy (this is just me.. (mumble) who is just sitting around in his basement all day looking at porn"

"...that's what concerns me is that their ideas of sex may be very confused..."

"....I've thought the same thing as ___ has at times...like Gall... would I be better off then finding a guy who, who isn't LDS that has just slept around and has a healthy perspective of sexuality?" because the older we get the more we have to (ya know) deal with our sexual frustration and the way that mormon men seem... sorry about this stereotype.. but often I've heard that ,yaknow, the way really great guys deal with it isn't for me my ideal"

89?90: Latter-day Saint ?Mid-Singles? Experience | Mormon Matters

[Windseeker]

Perhaps there are just too many variables. I can almost understand the idea that it’s better to marry someone who has “slept around a ton then a guy who sits around in his basement and look s at porn”. But I think there is a stereotype and misunderstanding that women have with LDS men who have this problem.

Take our religion out of the equation and someone who sits in their basement all day and looks at porn has some mental health issues. Someone who sleeps around a ton is just doing what every guy does. So of course you wouldn’t want to marry some guy with a Porn problem.

Now from this LDS guys standpoint, a guy who sleeps around a ton will most likely also have problems with pornography and that will be most likely be considered the least of his problems. I’ve never met a guy who sleeps around that wouldn’t laugh out loud at the notion that porn is a serious sin.

A struggle with pornography really comes down to - What type of porn is it? How often does he give in to temptation? How long does he view it?

For years after my mission I worked as a flight attendant. At that time I also struggled with the temptation of pornography. We are talking about a once or twice a month problem that never lasted more than 10 minutes at the most before being completely overwhelmed by guilt. There were a couple occasions on both international and domestic routes while on layovers where I forcefully had to remove women from my hotel room at night. Giving into the temptation of sex as in real wonderful awesome killer SEX!, would have been so much more gratifying but I knew it was a much greater sin.

It’s obvious that allot of women simply don’t understand the problem. I have met many noble men out there who have struggled with this in their lives and now serve as Stake, Mission, and Temple presidents etc. They must have some pretty exceptional wives.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Windseeker

[Wingnut]

I'm talking about while serving a mission. Are you saying she commited Adultery on her mission and was allowed to stay? I know several missionaries that struggled with pornography and mb and were allowed to complete their missions with honor.

Okay, your original statement about this was unclear to me, I guess. I thought you were talking about people who had issues like that, but were still permitted to serve missions, rather than being permitted to continue their missions.

[unworthyservant]

It's been my personal experience that any admittance of porn/mb within the past ~2-3 yrs is considered a deal breaker for most LDS Single Women (btw, this never happens in reverse). A few years ago, RS President Julie Beck advised women when they 'find out' to raise a red flag and stop the relationship.

I definitely think practically speaking that visual porn (not to be confused with books) is the bigger sin for most LDS women. (even though most will not admit this) (There is also a case to be made that theologically masturbation/porn has the larger penalty as well.

What's worse? 1 yr excommunicated OR the greater part of 10 years feeling unworthy to take sacrament. Additionally, Some bishops penalize you for 6 months (no sacrament/no temple/no priesthood privileges)

Consider however that you can be worthy of the sacrament/temple recommend, but still be served divorce papers (women file divorce papers 70% of the time btw) or be rejected for marriage... because of admitting that you looked at porn within the past year.

Most women I know wouldn't think twice about marrying a baptized David Beckham (or similar) (regardless of his sexual past). Surprise, Surprise - it all just magically washes away... when romance is in the air... women make romantic relationship decisions based on emotion/feelings. (and considering the overall package - height, bank account, etc..)

So while adultery/pre-marital sex can get you excommunicated, Porn earns you the eternal hatred from the tribe of lds women.

So even though you could be an otherwise GREAT guy (virgin, temple recommend, boy scout, missionary, never missed a tithing slip, great career, and serving in your ward) most LDS women will pass you up (or divorce you) if porn is brought up.

Ultimately, the semantics of sinning is boring (It's all sin!) and what is interesting (at least to me) is seeing heroic couples learn how to build healthy relationships through all of this.

Edited August 16, 2012 by unworthyservant

[Guest]

It's been my personal experience that any admittance of porn/mb within the past ~2-3 yrs is considered a deal breaker for most LDS Single Women (btw, this never happens in reverse). A few years ago, RS President Julie Beck advised women when they 'find out' to raise a red flag and stop the relationship.

Theologically, it's laughable to think masturbation/porn is worse than adultery as you can get excommunicated for adultery (not porn)

Practically speaking however, I say that Porn is definitely the bigger sin for most LDS women. (even though most will not admit this)

(There is also a case to be made that masturbation/porn has a larger penalty than outright sex does. Some men out there haven't felt WORTHY for 10 years or longer. Some bishops penalize you for 6 months (no sacrament/temple)

However, Consider that you can be worthy of the sacrament/temple recommend, but still be served divorce papers (women file divorce papers 70% of the time btw) or be rejected for marriage... because of admitting that you looked at porn within the past year.

Most women I know wouldn't think twice about marrying a baptized David Beckham (or similar) (regardless of his sexual past). Surprise, Surprise - it all just magically washes away... when romance is in the air... women make romantic relationship decisions based on emotion/feelings. (and considering the overall package - height, bank account, etc..)

So while adultery/pre-marital sex can get you excommunicated, Porn will earn you the eternal hatred of lds women. Women place the harsher judgment on visual porn for a few key reasons:

1) FEAR - It feels like adultery, and it's going to happen again and again)

2) FEAR - Is he a molester? (child porn, charles manson, etc..)

3) FEAR - Is he an ADDICT? will he have to do daily work? weekly meetings forever?

4) FEAR - what will my family think?

5) SADNESS - all my dreams just went away, am I not beautiful enough for him?

6) FEAR - what will happen when I get fat in 15 years?

Girls don't want all that! Girls just wanna have fun!!!

So even though you could be an otherwise GREAT guy (virgin, temple recommend, boy scout, missionary, never missed a tithing slip, great career, and serving in your ward) most LDS women definitely consider a man with a current/previous porn history WORSE than a man with a 'past'.

Ultimately, the semantics of sinning is boring (It's all sin!) Instead I think this is more about a battle of the sexes, pride, feminism, various gospels/philosophies of men/women, etc...

And it couldn't possibly be that porn distorts your view of women, even to hatred.

[Leah]

And it couldn't possibly be that porn distorts your view of women, even to hatred.

Nah! Of course not.

And there couldn't possibly be any bitterness and shifting of blame.