Adultery preferable to pornography?

[Dravin]

Where's the request form?

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[Dravin]

If there is more to the porn use than just a look here and there....say if there is long binging and mbing involved, it can be more threatening to the relationship.

I'm assuming "mbing" is masturbation? We can say the word here, it won't be eaten by the filter.

[Misshalfway]

Oh. Yeah.... You've caught me in my laziness. I guess I don't like typing long words.

[Heber13]

I consider romance novels porn, and prefer neither, but put adultery above that.

I would prefer someone watching a gory thriller movie to someone committing murder. But prefer neither (can't remember the last gory movie I've seen).

[Windseeker]

I don't think men are any less monogamous than women.

I have a sneeking suspicion that somewhere there are a bunch of academics in the womens studies program jumping up and down and throwing high fives.

I just don't buy it. I have 2 girls and 2 boys. They are so very very different in their natural (un-indoctrinated) desires.

It's not an excuse for the behavior at all (though some weak men like to toss it around).

I brought it up only to explain how porn is enticing and tempting to men and why satisfying the sexual urge thru intimacy in marriage does not alleviate the natural inclination in men.

How increasingly men are expected to behave like women and women like men now days is a whole other discussion.

[Misshalfway]

I don't have any stats to "prove" it. I just think marriage is pretty popular with men too. There are lots of men, especially in their older aging years who don't do so well without a partner. Some don't live as long and some remarry rather quickly.

Maybe men become more monogamous with age. It's interesting on the flip side the older women do pretty well alone.

My personal theory is that men and women are more a like than not. Our differences are in the configuration of all the "parts" rather than being two completely different entities.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Misshalfway
Added another thought

[Guest]

Gosh, I didn't realize men were so oppressed by feminists' new-fangled idea of monogamy. I'll be sure to apologize to my husband post haste.

[Windseeker]

I don't have any stats to "prove" it. I just think marriage is pretty popular with men too.

What you're missing is that mens nature is not monogamous. Mens values are monogamous

My personal theory is that men and women are more a like than not. Our differences are in the configuration of all the "parts" rather than being two completely different entities.

That does not jive with A Proclamation to the World, it's what evil minded people want you to believe.

The theory also does nothing to promote understanding between husband and wife when dealing with this sin. Men need to fully understand the pain they cause and Women need to understand their Husbands and this Sin before they can be of any help.

Sorry to sound harsh, I do appreciate your point of view.

[Misshalfway]

You appreciate my point of view.......even though it's been tainted by those (whispering) "evil minded" people??

[Windseeker]

Gosh, I didn't realize men were so oppressed by feminists' new-fangled idea of monogamy. I'll be sure to apologize to my husband post haste.

You're not Monogamous?

[Windseeker]

You appreciate my point of view.......even though it's been tainted by those (whispering) "evil minded" people??

Yes I do.

[Guest]

You're not Monogamous?

Of course I am and so he, and therefore dissatisfied and oppressed. That's why I just apologized to him.

[Windseeker]

At this point I'm not doing anything to promote understanding and just irritating people. I'm done with this thread.

Cheers.

[Misshalfway]

Windseeker;691814]What you're missing is that mens nature is not monogamous. Mens values are monogamous

That's a fair opinion. I could agree that there is an element of this in the male nature. If it wasn't so, men wouldn't chase women ever. So, I'll concede on that aspect of things and even as an essential part to the plan of salvation.

That does not jive with A Proclamation to the World, it's what evil minded people want you to believe.

Heaven forbid that anyone alude to similarities amongst the sexes. Forget completely that they both breath air, eat food, want sex, feel the same emotions, long for closeness, desperately need nurturance and affection, and that sometimes they like the same sports.

You are right. I'm completely misguided.

The theory also does nothing to promote understanding between husband and wife when dealing with this sin. Men need to fully understand the pain they cause and Women need to understand their Husbands and this Sin before they can be of any help.

Well, I disagree with you on 800 levels with your first statement. But I'll support your second. Understanding goes a long way towards healing.

I think it is the parts of true evolved male composition that men and society, and women too have disowned that causes much of the misunderstanding of what men and women really are. Our desperateness has all too often reduced this understanding and cultural training to stereotypes. Men are rich emotional creatures! And their way of expressing this is strong and manly and frankly melts my butter! They aren't only sexual robots who need to punish themselves into values. I refuse to see men in such a limited and obtuse sort of way.

But I guess we should all stay in those stereotypes cuz that's what the "good" people do.

And in my experience, seeing the woman's pain (or parnter's pain) is typically a trigger for more bad behavior. When the person is finally able to empathize, it's a sign the ice is melting and that they are moving towards more health.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Misshalfway

[MorningStar]

This thread is depressing me. I feel like future talks with my daughter are going to go like this, "Someday you'll meet your prince charming, you'll get married, and he'll spend the rest of your marriage trying not to have sex with other women and/or look at porn."

As for men understanding how women feel in this situation, our old bishop said women come to him hysterical when they find out, but when men find out their wives have a porn problem, their reaction is, "Oh. Well you need to stop doing that."

The only time I have seen a man react as strongly as a woman in this situation was when my friend got multiple credit cards without telling her husband. Financial security is the most important thing to him by far, so when he checked his credit report and discovered one card with $5,000, he thought someone had stolen his identity. Thankfully, she fessed up and told him about the others that only showed up on her report. He thought they were financially set and was horrified to hear they were around $20,000 in debt.

I said, "Ohhhhhhhhh! So that's why you always ran to get the mail as soon as it came!" We would be in the middle of a conversation and as soon as she saw the mailman, she would say, "Hang on a second!" Then I would watch her as she nervously sifted through the stack of mail and wondered what was up. Was she expecting a check? Why the heck was the mail that important? She was just desperate for her husband not to get the mail and find the bills. She thought she would be able to pay them off on her own, without any help from him. Turns out he caught it just in time because she wouldn't have been able to keep up with the interest that was accumulating.

It all started when she didn't want to worry him by telling him she had to take money out of savings to start her business. He was unemployed. So she got a cash advance on a credit card to put the money back in. Then she got another credit card to pay off that balance. Things piled on and to hide the fact that she had no money, she would purchase airline tickets and other things when her husband insisted they could afford it because she had her business.

She spent so much money and had almost nothing tangible to show for it, so he flipped out. He said, "Are you on drugs? Do you have a boyfriend?" If you knew her, the idea was laughable, but that's where the mind goes when you have been betrayed and lied to. He took her debit card away because he was convinced she was a shopaholic, wouldn't let her go grocery shopping by herself for quite some time, and he told her if she broke the rules he set up, she would have to leave for two weeks and stay with her mom.

He then took her to talk to the bishop, very upset. He expected that the bishop would give her a talking to and take some kind of action (I don't know what) and the bishop said, "Eh. This is just a speedbump in your marriage." It wasn't the validation he wanted, but they did work things out. They got out of debt pretty quickly, but trusting her again took much longer. She was definitely a happier person once it was all out in the open too.

[unworthyservant]

Source, please.

Julie Beck (2008)

"Please remember that there are no righteous daughters of God who will willingly tolerate a pornography habit in the young men they date and marry. In fact, if a young woman has any hint that a young man she is interested in is involved in pornography in any of its forms, I would tell her to consider it as a flashing red light, which means “stop this relationship"

CES Fireside 2008 - Beck

Gordon B. Hinckley (1998)

"The girl you marry will take a terrible chance on you..." "The girl you marry is worthy of a husband whose life has not been tainted by this ugly and corrosive material."

Living Worthy of the Girl You Will Someday Marry - general-conference

[Wingnut]

Julie Beck (2008)

"Please remember that there are no righteous daughters of God who will willingly tolerate a pornography habit in the young men they date and marry. In fact, if a young woman has any hint that a young man she is interested in is involved in pornography in any of its forms, I would tell her to consider it as a flashing red light, which means “stop this relationship"

CES Fireside 2008 - Beck

Thanks for looking that up. I don't recall the talk, but if it's from a CES broadcast, that would be why, since I haven't really attended them since I got married.

I disagree with Sister Beck's assessment, however. A man's choice is his choice, and if a man chooses to make a habit of viewing pornography, it does not make his wife unrighteous if she chooses to stay with him.

[MorningStar]

That's an interesting statement. Is she saying not to marry or date a guy if he ever had a pornography habit? Or is she talking about currently? I do agree that it shouldn't be tolerated at all.

[Guest]

Thanks for looking that up. I don't recall the talk, but if it's from a CES broadcast, that would be why, since I haven't really attended them since I got married.

I disagree with Sister Beck's assessment, however. A man's choice is his choice, and if a man chooses to make a habit of viewing pornography, it does not make his wife unrighteous if she chooses to stay with him.

I don't see any indication that she's saying a woman would be unrighteous. I think she's saying if you're dating someone with a porn problem, beware. Like a lot of counsel, intended to save from hurt and harm. She's not saying, "If you stay in a relationship with a porn user or addict, you need to repent." She's saying, "You're risking a lot of hurt and grief by starting and making a life with someone who might never get away from porn."

Good advice, I'd say.

I also read it as advice for those dating, not for those married.

[Wingnut]

So what about the woman who is dating a worthy man, who, in the course of their courtship, reveals to her that he has a past pornography addiction? He is not currently struggling with it, but the potential remains, dormant, in the future. She prays about it, and still feels good about marrying him. Is she in direct conflict with Sister Beck's counsel, and considered unrighteous?

"no righteous daughters of God...will willingly tolerate a pornography habit in the young men they...marry"

[Guest]

If he'd repented and it was in his past, it wouldn't be a pornography habit.

[Wingnut]

But the potential for recurrence is still there.

[Guest]

Sure, but the potential for problems is a great deal higher if a guy is still using. I would absolutely tell my daughters to run from a guy that's using pornography. I don't know why that should be controversial. It's not the same as saying to end a relationship with a guy that has used in the past. I would certainly recommend caution and a great deal of prayer in that case, but I wouldn't be as concerned as with someone who hasn't repented and is still struggling with it (or just using it unapologetically).

[unworthyservant]

To take one step back, The battle with lust is a lifelong struggle for men and thus warrants a great deal of concern/prayer/thought in general. The prophet once said we live in a pornographic culture and that our times are worse than sodom & gomorah. My nephews tell me they are now the ones who run from the lustful young women in their high school (as did Joseph from Potiphar's lustful wife).

If the standard for enhanced interrogation will be 'used it in the past' than 99% of young women will need to go through some type of EFY bootcamp to prepare themselves.

The statistics are pretty clear that in our current society boys (and girls) WILL BE EXPOSED (so much so, that a recent study on the topic could not find 1 young man who had not).

So, the question becomes ....now what? We can't just hope a guy will come along who walked the tightrope perfectly and now wants to date one of our daughters. Furthermore, just because a boy might have walked that tightrope... who is to say he can do it for another 50 yrs? I'd be telling my girls to look for character (honesty/humility) and a willingness to communicate... and to RUN towards these types of guys

The type of guy who is learning how to face himself, face jesus & take up his daily cross. These guys quickly learn that they are not enough and never will be... and that they need Him every hour... and need a help-meet who needs him every hour as well.

Basically, "A great deal of prayer" is needed. Amen!

Edited August 19, 2012 by unworthyservant

[Misshalfway]

I was studying today for my lesson and found a few CS Lewis quotes. I thought this was appropriate since we are talking about dealing with lust.

“Strictly speaking, there are no such things as good and bad impulses. Think...of a piano. It has not got two kinds of notes on it, the 'right' notes and the 'wrong' ones. Every single note is right at one time and wrong at another. The Moral Law is not any one instinct or set of instincts: it is something which makes a kind of tune (the tune we call goodness or right conduct) by directing the instincts.”

― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

What do you think about this idea?