Adultery preferable to pornography?


Vort
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I have to agree that the issue Vort referred to is a real thing. Pornography is an air-brushed, safe and readily available alternative that is easily hidden and could be seen by some to be preferable to real life.

Not only is it easy to hide and far easier to find than someone willing to be engaged in adultery, but you have a bunch of people that can't really be competed with. Everyone on the screen would be devoid of cellulite, air brushed to perfection and looking basically like me, who is an adonis standing astride the world in all his masculine glory.

Why would someone choose a live human being when they could spend all day looking at someone who looks as good as me? Really. Check out these glutes on me. They're real, and they're spectacular.

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These are some seriously mislead people to think this way. They are not fit to hold any leadership positions. One is involved with actually creating life and instantly destroying a marriage, and the other is lustful fantasy adultery of the heart. They have no business counseling people dealing with physical adultery.

These people might think murdering someone in a video game is worse than taking a real life.

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These are some seriously mislead people to think this way. They are not fit to hold any leadership positions. One is involved with actually creating life and instantly destroying a marriage, and the other is lustful fantasy adultery of the heart. They have no business counseling people dealing with physical adultery.

These people might think murdering someone in a video game is worse than taking a real life.

I don't think anyone is saying that looking at naked pictures one day is the equivalent to adultery.

What we are saying is that sometimes looking at pornography can develop into something that is addictive and equally destructive as adultery. The internet has really changed the way people respond to sexually elicit material. It changes the brain and it changes the person. And it opens opportunities that most never thought to imagine let alone indulge in.

And in some more extreme cases, it can actually be literally worse. I've heard of a case where the guy was taking naked pictures of his wife and exchanging them with other men online to entice them to share pics of their wives. This person was a high priest. How would you feel if you were that wife? Another case happened where the guy used porn throughout teen yrs and early adulthood. Basic porn, you know nothing 3D. By the time he was 30 (he had a wife and kid at the time), he was hiring prostitutes to fulfill his raging sexual fantasies. He then progressed to child porn and was arrested.

On the balance, I'd rather that my spouse had an affair.

Check out this link. It's got some pretty good info on what internet porn does to the brain. It's from a Ted.talk given by Gary Wilson.

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Okay, read about half the posts, needed to make my comments.

I spent a long time trying to decide which I would find worse. I arrived at the conclusion that pornography=adultry and vise versa.

However, my husband having an affair would be an automatic deal-breaker, me thinks. The marriage would most likely be over.

If I discovered my husband viewing porn, I'd probably demand he go to the bishop, get counseling, etc. I don't think it would completely end the marriage.

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  • 2 years later...

I know this is an older post, but thought I'd respond.  If someone says they'd prefer that their husband had an affair they are most certainly talking about recurring porn addiction and the lies that accompany it.  

 

With porn, the mistresses are within the home 24/7 and are perfect, with every variety and kinky act under the sun.  They require no communication, have no needs, and are there only to satisfy.  This just doesn't exist in real life.  The world is more accepting of porn rather than adultery.  A woman that leaves a cheater gets more support and understanding than a woman who is dealing with a husband who is addicted to porn.  There's more shame with porn.

 

Porn addiction is just as damaging as adultery.  

 

With my husband's porn addiction, he continually gets a slap on the wrist by bishops and I am told to forgive over and over. He's even been given callings a month after confession and while he wasn't supposed to take the sacrament.  Each and every time I discover the lies and porn, our relationship deteriorates until there's but a fragment of hope or love left.  The cycle continues...

 

If he had committed adultery, he would have been disfellowshipped/excommunicated, especially if he had done it as many times as he has masturbated to porn.  

Edited by flygirl
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Pornography as a term can be a wide brush - covering everything from Sports Illustrated Swim Suit edition.

The Traveler

Really wide if you are including the Sports illustrated swimsuit  edition which is not porn.

Really? I personally know someone who lost his temple recommend -- temporarily -- after confessing pornography addiction to his bishop.

 

A bishop yanking your temple recommend is not formal disicpline

I had a mission companion who lived with her boyfriend for two years prior to returning to activity in the church and serving a mission.

How long ago was this? the standards have changed and anyone playing house will be unable to serve a normal full time mission. From HB 1: 

 

Extended Pattern of Serious Transgressions

A person who has been promiscuous with several partners or with one partner over an extended period of time in a relationship outside of marriage will not be considered for missionary service.

Edited by omegaseamaster75
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Guest MormonGator

Without reading the entire thread and only the OP, I can say with certainty that 90% of the women I know would rather their husband neither look at porn than cheat. 

But, if you had only those two options, the lesser evil is clearly looking at porn (still evil). 

 

With porn, you can't get someone pregnant or transmit a disease.

Edited by MormonGator
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Porn addiction is just as damaging as adultery.  

 

No offense to you personally, but I disbelieve this statement as any kind of general rule. Perhaps it is true in some isolated cases.

 

With my husband's porn addiction, he continually gets a slap on the wrist by bishops and I am told to forgive over and over. He's even been given callings a month after confession and while he wasn't supposed to take the sacrament.

 

I have noticed this same attitude from many women who post here as wives of pornography users. What strikes me is the supposition that, in being counseled to forgive their husbands, they are somehow being asked to do something unreasonable, as if forgiving a porn-viewing husband is just the stupidest thing in the world. I have noticed phrases used like "slap on the wrist", indicating that the wife believes far more serious "punishment" should be levied. She wants her pound of flesh. She wants to see her husband suffer, perhaps in retribution for her hurt feelings.
 

Not sure what to say about this, except that the whole attitude seems wrong to me.

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No offense to you personally, but I disbelieve this statement as any kind of general rule. Perhaps it is true in some isolated cases.

 

 

I have noticed this same attitude from many women who post here as wives of pornography users. What strikes me is the supposition that, in being counseled to forgive their husbands, they are somehow being asked to do something unreasonable, as if forgiving a porn-viewing husband is just the stupidest thing in the world. I have noticed phrases used like "slap on the wrist", indicating that the wife believes far more serious "punishment" should be levied. She wants her pound of flesh. She wants to see her husband suffer, perhaps in retribution for her hurt feelings.
 

Not sure what to say about this, except that the whole attitude seems wrong to me.

 

 

I'm just thinking here and I thought of one thing:

 

When women read porn (think 50 Shades of Grey and similar books - there's a whole bunch of them lined up in the US public library)... somehow, it doesn't even register as porn and if it does (like 50 Shades) then it is offensive because of the abuse to the women.  I have not heard of anybody saying something like - it is terrible and brings pain and suffering to the husbands.

 

Women can be such narcissits..

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Guest MormonGator

I'm just thinking here and I thought of one thing:

 

When women read porn (think 50 Shades of Grey and similar books - there's a whole bunch of them lined up in the US public library)... somehow, it doesn't even register as porn and if it does (like 50 Shades) then it is offensive because of the abuse to the women.  I have not heard of anybody saying something like - it is terrible and brings pain and suffering to the husbands.

 

Women can be such narcissits..

 YES! I know of women who would flip out if their husband looked at a swimsuit issue while reading 50 Shades. I'm stunned that they don't see the hypocrisy 

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Really wide if you are including the Sports illustrated swimsuit  edition which is not porn.

 

Sometimes the word used is soft porn for such things as the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition.  I personally believe porn has  more to do with why one would be looking and not really what can be seen.  Interestingly there are many societies that consider depictions violence to be more harmful pornography than sexually explicit graphics.   Generally in our USA societies violence is not considered much of a concern - but I tend to think violence has become too common and tolerated.

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I'm not sure how I feel about which I might "rather" have to deal with. But I know how my husband's almost life-long porn addiction has affected me and how much more difficult it has made our marriage. The three times I have accidentally discovered evidence of his viewing and sharing habits I would definitely consider some of the most traumatic experiences of my life.

I can see the logic in the idea that a single affair is preferable to years and years of regular porn use. Infidelity is always correctly labeled as such, there would be no dispute among members of this forum, I believe, about what constitutes adulterous actions that are "serious-enough."

From what I know of people who have suffered a divorce brought on by infidelity, a big part of how quickly the wounded spouse is able to move on and make a better life is based on how strong their support system is. If this thread is any indication, it seems it would be much harder for a wife of an unrepentant porn addict to get much help from her community, LDS or not. I think we have our own problematic version here of the classic "everybody's doing it" argument.

My husband told me back when we were dating that I was the first and only girl he had ever kissed. Come to find out later that he had participated in all kinds of inappropriate sexual activities as a teenager, the least of which were casual make-out sessions. He says his original statement still counts because I'm the only one he ever had real feelings for, and I believe him there. But he did physically enjoy and use those other girls, or he wouldn't have done it so much. Just because a man hasn't physically slept with, hasn't exchanged potentially-diseases fluids with, or hasn't had romantic feelings for another woman on a screen, does not mean that his physical/mental appetites haven't been satisfied to almost the same level, or even more so but with different, heightened levels of brain activity and stimulation. Porn is easier to obtain, much easier to hide, and as we see here... much easier to excuse as "not THAT bad."

My husband says that he will never cheat on me, and of course I believe him and want that to be true. But by the same token, he has done everything but physically meet up with and exchange fluids with hundreds if not thousands of women on the Internet, all in his mind. No one can make me believe that when men are watching a hard-core porn video that they are not completely engrossed in the fantasy. Imagining and using devices to simulate for their own gratification that everything being faked on the screen is exactly how it would feel if he were the man in the video. Men imagine that they are having sex with the person on screen. Female users probably do too.. I don't wish to over-generalize or ignore the problem that porn is for women. That is really not far from adultery. The difference is, in real life, the other woman would have cellulite or flabby arms or whatever. The women in porn can be as perfect as his imagination can handle. Apart from pressure applied from either his own conscience, the Spirit, church leaders, family or spouse....there is no reason that porn would ever give for him to stop. Real women might eventually want to get their own lives in order, lose interest, start saying no, etc. The supply of new porn is never ending.

I can see why some women might not be eager to wait and hurt and worry for that long.

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I'm not sure how I feel about which I might "rather" have to deal with. But I know how my husband's almost life-long porn addiction has affected me and how much more difficult it has made our marriage. The three times I have accidentally discovered evidence of his viewing and sharing habits I would definitely consider some of the most traumatic experiences of my life.

I can see the logic in the idea that a single affair is preferable to years and years of regular porn use. Infidelity is always correctly labeled as such, there would be no dispute among members of this forum, I believe, about what constitutes adulterous actions that are "serious-enough."

From what I know of people who have suffered a divorce brought on by infidelity, a big part of how quickly the wounded spouse is able to move on and make a better life is based on how strong their support system is. If this thread is any indication, it seems it would be much harder for a wife of an unrepentant porn addict to get much help from her community, LDS or not. I think we have our own problematic version here of the classic "everybody's doing it" argument.

My husband told me back when we were dating that I was the first and only girl he had ever kissed. Come to find out later that he had participated in all kinds of inappropriate sexual activities as a teenager, the least of which were casual make-out sessions. He says his original statement still counts because I'm the only one he ever had real feelings for, and I believe him there. But he did physically enjoy and use those other girls, or he wouldn't have done it so much. Just because a man hasn't physically slept with, hasn't exchanged potentially-diseases fluids with, or hasn't had romantic feelings for another woman on a screen, does not mean that his physical/mental appetites haven't been satisfied to almost the same level, or even more so but with different, heightened levels of brain activity and stimulation. Porn is easier to obtain, much easier to hide, and as we see here... much easier to excuse as "not THAT bad."

My husband says that he will never cheat on me, and of course I believe him and want that to be true. But by the same token, he has done everything but physically meet up with and exchange fluids with hundreds if not thousands of women on the Internet, all in his mind. No one can make me believe that when men are watching a hard-core porn video that they are not completely engrossed in the fantasy. Imagining and using devices to simulate for their own gratification that everything being faked on the screen is exactly how it would feel if he were the man in the video. Men imagine that they are having sex with the person on screen. Female users probably do too.. I don't wish to over-generalize or ignore the problem that porn is for women. That is really not far from adultery. The difference is, in real life, the other woman would have cellulite or flabby arms or whatever. The women in porn can be as perfect as his imagination can handle. Apart from pressure applied from either his own conscience, the Spirit, church leaders, family or spouse....there is no reason that porn would ever give for him to stop. Real women might eventually want to get their own lives in order, lose interest, start saying no, etc. The supply of new porn is never ending.

I can see why some women might not be eager to wait and hurt and worry for that long.

 

BTW - I lost the link but a recent study shows that in conflicts or problems in men women relationships - women seem to suffer the most at the time but that men suffer the most and have more difficulty getting over being rejected.  In fact the study indicated that in many cases men never get over even a single rejection even though they establish other relationships.

 

I wonder if porn among men has something to do with real life rejection that was ever overcome by some guy?

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Sure, I think that must be at least partly why men have always written the best love songs. My favorite comedian, Dylan Moran has a great bit on the subject. The gist of it is that men can go on and on about one woman, "I have to be with her, my life will fall apart unless I can be with her, etc" but he concludes.."that is how women feel about shoes."

I have read that the majority of porn-addict "acting out" behaviors are triggered by feelings of depression, low self-confidence, and emasculation. The sex drive itself only accounts for a small percentage of porn-viewing sessions for an addict. An extra-tricky situation then for women, needing to be extra patient and gentle, protective and supportive toward one of the people who in his "private" activities is tearing away at her sense of security and self-confidence the most.

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I get why some women would think that porn is worse than an affair. When a man habitually/chronically consumes pornography (I am talking abut an addiction). He is having an emotional affair, this porn usage often includes self abuse. Plain and simple he is becoming detached from his marriage and there is a loss of closeness with his spouse. Add to that the years of deceit and lies that accompany pervasive usage of pornography. Yeah it's worse than a one time affair. 

 

Now where I take issues is that the label "addict" is thrown around very loosely when associated with pornography. Let me be very clear we should not watch/consume/solicit porn. Under no circumstance is it ever ok. That said a casual google search for an unrelated item can turn up pornographic images.

 

FYI if your husband looks at sports illustrated swimsuit edition HE"S NORMAL. If he looks twice when walking by the victorias secret store HE"S NORMAL. 

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FYI if your husband looks at sports illustrated swimsuit edition HE"S NORMAL. If he looks twice when walking by the victorias secret store HE"S NORMAL. 

 

Just wondering - would you say that truth is normal?  Is discipline normal or is it normal to be undisciplined?  Is it normal to achieve or to be exceptional?  Is failure normal or is success normal? 

 

Sometimes I think normal is often a worthless term that is more of an excuse than a reason for something.

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I don't know that "normal" is completely worthless, nor do I necessarily see it as an "excuse". What it is is not helpful in discerning right and wrong. Some "normal" behaviors are clearly wrong/sin, some are right and good, and some are neutral. Calliing something normal or natural does not help in discerning whether it is right or wrong.

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Are we going to argue about what is normal male behavior?

 

The point seems to be that saying that it is "normal" for men to look at the Sports Illustrated Soft-Porn Issue is, in reality, saying nothing at all.

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