The good old days of church criticism

[NeuroTypical]

I was going through an old file of LDS-related stuff I used to update. This story was told by a poster named Bernard Gui on the old Zarahemla's Lighthouse board, probably over ten years ago:

A prominent Lutheran church advertised an evening for people to learn about Mormons. I went with our ward mission leader. The very large church was full. In the audience was a member of the Stake Presidency who was a PhD in psychology and the highly respected headmaster of a local private college-prep high school. The Professional Anti-Mormon arrived in his Cadillac and proceeded to give the most horrific description of my religion I have ever heard. A collection was taken for his "ministry." I don't remember his name, but he had really nice cowboy boots and a big silver belt buckle.

At the end of his presentation, he opened the floor for questions. The SP stood and identified himself, but was immediately told to SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP THIS IS NOT YOUR CHURCH by the host. I write it in caps because that was how it was said. The hatred in the audience was so palpable that you could cut it with a knife. The next logical step to the presentation could have been, "Now let's get some rope and find some Mormons." I understood mob violence in Illinois. My friend and I left fearful for our safety if we had identified ourselves as Mormons. It took several weeks to shake the feelings engendered from that meeting.

I'm guessing that most of us mormons have experienced something in the ballpark of misunderstanding, or ignorance, or fear. But has anyone experienced anything similar in the last 5 or 10 years?

[Bini]

Not the same thing but my dad was in China and was wearing his BYU shirt, when he was stopped by someone that recognised it, and was warned to be careful. Apparently, people have worn BYU apparel before to start discussions on the LDS church but it is illegal to preach over there.

[pam]

I ran into a friend on facebook not long ago. We've been corresponding back and forth catching up. I posted something not long ago regarding Mormons as I do quite often for those that are friends with me well know.

I was rather unprepared for a response I got from her. "If you are one of those Mormons then just delete me from your list of friends on facebook." Actually I think it had more to do with my choice of a candidate. But anyway.

I responded that I was sorry that a friendship that started 40 years ago had to end because of my choice of religion or candidate. But if she felt that strongly I would respect it.

[Anddenex]

I was going through an old file of LDS-related stuff I used to update. This story was told by a poster named Bernard Gui on the old Zarahemla's Lighthouse board, probably over ten years ago:

I'm guessing that most of us mormons have experienced something in the ballpark of misunderstanding, or ignorance, or fear. But has anyone experienced anything similar in the last 5 or 10 years?

Yes, unfortunately this type of experience still exists. It is amazing that people harbor such hatred.

[applepansy]

I ran into a friend on facebook not long ago. We've been corresponding back and forth catching up. I posted something not long ago regarding Mormons as I do quite often for those that are friends with me well know.

I was rather unprepared for a response I got from her. "If you are one of those Mormons then just delete me from your list of friends on facebook." Actually I think it had more to do with my choice of a candidate. But anyway.

I responded that I was sorry that a friendship that started 40 years ago had to end because of my choice of religion or candidate. But if she felt that strongly I would respect it.

Pam, I hope you didn't unfriend her but let her do the deed. I think its always important to keep the door open even when faced with the hatred our beliefs attract sometimes.

[NeuroTypical]

Yes, unfortunately this type of experience still exists. It is amazing that people harbor such hatred.

So, have you personally experienced something like that recently Anddenex? I haven't.

The last sort of thing I encountered, was an "Are Mormons Christian" class held at the local megachurch. They let me attend a few classes (before I was politely disinvited for opening my mouth), but the tone was the exact opposite of the experience I quoted above. The lady practiced what she called "convicted civility", which basically meant she was right and I was wrong, but she was also going to be civil about it in all her efforts. I could respect that. She and I had a good email back-and-forthing for a while, and she sent me condolences when Pres. Hinckley died, telling me she had attended his funeral and saying it was beautiful.

So if you have a personal experience, please share. I am unaware of anything as hateful and blatantly lying as my story above, happening in the last decade or so. Of course there are still anti websites, and people continue to write books and what have you, but Chrisitan churches paying professional critics to 'expose the monstrous lies of the mormon cult'? Please share.

[applepansy]

I ran into a friend on facebook not long ago. We've been corresponding back and forth catching up. I posted something not long ago regarding Mormons as I do quite often for those that are friends with me well know.

I was rather unprepared for a response I got from her. "If you are one of those Mormons then just delete me from your list of friends on facebook." Actually I think it had more to do with my choice of a candidate. But anyway.

I responded that I was sorry that a friendship that started 40 years ago had to end because of my choice of religion or candidate. But if she felt that strongly I would respect it.

Pam, I hope you didn't unfriend her but let her do the deed. I think its always important to keep the door open even when faced with the hatred our beliefs attract sometimes.

LM, Yes but not in a face-to-face setting. What I've run into has been online. I'm part of a large online community of people with Chronic Pain. Most realize I'm Christian right away because I don't stick around for bad language, especially taking the Lord's name in vain. When a friend I'd been talking to for over 10 years asked if I was Mormon I said Yes! She had questions. I gave her the 13 Articles of Faith first. When it got to believing the bible as far as it is translated correctly she terminated the conversation and I haven't heard from her since. There have been others but that one hurt the most.

[Bini]

LM, I think it would be naive to believe that this sort of behaviour doesn't exist anywhere. Surely it does somewhere and currently to date.

I thought some more, and the closes personal experience I had was on a blind date with several ladies from off the internet. There were 8 of us in total, all strangers, all meeting for the first time at Olive Garden. I sat across the table from a girl named, Emily. First impressions, very sweet and very down to earth. Then religion graced the table. Unsurprisingly, I wasn't the only LDS (though I was inactive at the time) because this was in Utah. It didn't take long for the petite girl-of-few-words to jump right into the mix of things - she was Baptist and did not appreciate the Mormons, at all. She basically said some things along the lines of how she has never met an honest Mormon, and so on and so forth, it really was a bit awkward because we all had only met. One of the girls at the table had just returned from a mission not too long ago, I think within a couple years, and tried to get to the bottom of Emily's strong feelings about the LDS. Didn't go over too well. Needless to say, I never ended up doing anything with that particular girl afterwards because of how she viewed the LDS church. Of course, I didn't fear for my safety but I was a bit shocked that she'd be so vocal about her dislike towards Mormon when she was here in Utah! She had only been in Salt Lake City for a few months, she moved from Virginia.

[Bini]

Oh, here's another one and this happened within family..

When my grandfather died, the children were split in deciding whether he should be buried with garments. Three siblings voted yes, and the other three voted no. One brother is especially anti-Mormon and really ripped my mum and two other siblings about how the church is a cult, and he'll be damned if they try to dress their father in cult attire, etc etc. He said some really hurtful things to them, and this was a brother in the family. I don't remember what happened. Grandfather was buried over ten years ago now, maybe longer. I wouldn't be surprised if he was buried without them. I should note, my grandfather was a convert but inactive most of his life. So my mum and her siblings did not really grow up in the church, however, some of them (3) did become members later in their lives.

[Wingnut]

Pam, I hope you didn't unfriend her but let her do the deed. I think its always important to keep the door open even when faced with the hatred our beliefs attract sometimes.

I agree. I have one friend on Facebook that is a girl I knew in high school, though we were only ever really acquaintances. In high school it was rumored that she was a lesbian, but in a mean, gossipy, high school sort of way. A year or two after graduation, this friend came out, and I'm not sure many people were very surprised. Now she's a stereotypical lesbian: butch hair, looks like a guy at a quick glance, in-your-face about it, lives in Portland, etc.

Four years ago was our ten-year reunion. I remember her posting something leading up to the reunion about how she couldn't wait to go, because she wanted to shock "all the Mormons and tell them I'm a leeesssssbiannnnn[/]!!" I politely commented something to the effect that I was a Mormon and had always known she was a lesbian. I told her I hoped she had fun at the reunion, but I wouldn't be able to make it (I live too far away now). She never responded, but we're still friends, and seem to have a mutual respect for each other.

[pam]

Pam, I hope you didn't unfriend her but let her do the deed. I think its always important to keep the door open even when faced with the hatred our beliefs attract sometimes.

I left it open. She unfriended me.

[Bini]

I left it open. She unfriended me.

Don't take no for an answer, Pam!

[annewandering]

The internet seems to allow the people who hate LDS to 'come out' of their closets. In their 'r/l' they are polite, generally. I see a LOT of it on my facebook. I politely correct their misconceptions and move on. None of them have unfriended me for that, that I know of. In fact I have become good friends with some.

The only people who really hate me are for political reasons. Oh just a minute, one page did boot me when I corrected their nasty comments about LDS people. Nice thing is people I didnt even know defended me and I was eventually allowed back at which point I did unlike them. It was a political page that hated conservative religions but especially LDS.

[Blackmarch]

I was going through an old file of LDS-related stuff I used to update. This story was told by a poster named Bernard Gui on the old Zarahemla's Lighthouse board, probably over ten years ago:

I'm guessing that most of us mormons have experienced something in the ballpark of misunderstanding, or ignorance, or fear. But has anyone experienced anything similar in the last 5 or 10 years?

Its bubbling just under the surface in various communities. Its disturbing how often ive come across comments that involve violence towards those who are jewish, muslim, mormon, mexican, or black.... Almost anywhere on the internet that permits unrestricted or semi unrestricted language... And every so often in overheard conversations.

As for being actually threatened offline, i have been a few times... But for reasons other than religion.

[Schwesterherz]

I personally do not think that it is bad when one criticizes a church. Neither the LDS. "Good tone" only should be taken into a group or a church and also the mutual respect.

[applepansy]

I left it open. She unfriended me.

I know how it can hurt. Stand strong eventually you might find she comes back to the friendship.

[NeuroTypical]

I'm hearing lots of stories about individuals who have formed negative or false conclusions. That's part of our human condition, and not really unique to the subject of mormonism. But I'm not hearing stories where churches or other organizations actually host professional critics to fill their member's heads with criticisms. I wonder if those days are over, after so many respected Christians like Ravi Zacharias and Owens and Mosser started dragging this stuff into the light and exposing it for what it was.

[Vort]

I left it open. She unfriended me.

Wow. I guess that shows you. At least you can't pollute her with your filthy Mormonism any more. Neener, neener.

[skoshmom]

When I came back to church after being inactive for many years, one of my "friends" who is from another faith (one of the faiths that preach we are a cult) absolutely turned on me for nothing else but deciding to come back to my church. I realized that she wasn't really a friend to begin with. She called me a Benedict Arnold - what?? and told me that "my good works were going to **** me to hell forever". It really hurt at first, but I know that I'm where I'm supposed to be. I can't for the life of me fathom how someone who consideres themself a Christian could spew so much hate!

[Anddenex]

So, have you personally experienced something like that recently Anddenex? I haven't.

Sorry LM, I didn't realize you asked me a specific question personally. I am not sure how I missed it seeing I read the post directly below yours.

Yes, I have personally experienced this type of hatred and filth within the last 5 years. I speak with a few people on youtube, and watch videos elsewhere, seeking to keep up with what is said for my children. However I have never attended one of these meeting myself which your post makes mention of.

I want to be able to protect them should they experience this. Within the past year I read a post from a Christian who said all Mormons should be killed, however I believe he used to the word "wiped-out". The poster used the common language from these types of individuals.

Back home in California I know of one church that yearly has these types of meetings, especially if anybody in their congregation is beginning to speak with missionaries.

I don't believe it is as mainstream as it used to be, unfortunately though, it hasn't disappeared.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Anddenex

[dahlia]

I'm guessing that most of us mormons have experienced something in the ballpark of misunderstanding, or ignorance, or fear. But has anyone experienced anything similar in the last 5 or 10 years?

This isn't in person, but online. For almost 10 years I've belonged to one of the largest online conservative political sites. This site purports to be supportive of Christianity. Over that time, I have seen many a nasty post against Catholics, but what I started to notice was the absolute hatred directed at Mormons. The owner of the site is an anti and will ban Mormons simply for responding to anti-Mormon screeds - but not ban the 'Christian' who started the thread.

Their hatred prompted me to look into Mormonism; I had to know what was it about Mormons that drove people to near insanity. Long story short, their hatred made me learn about the Church and eventually convert.

Edited August 19, 2012 by skippy740
Removed portion referencing current political candidate.

[carlimac]

I can't ever remember fearing for my life over my church membership. But when we lived in the midwest my daughter had a friend who's church was pretty anti-LDS. She tried to get my daughter to have Bible study with her. My daughter politely declined. She also had a book on her coffee table that instructed people how to react and counter claims made by the LDS church. By this time, my duaghter was used to the sentiment and just rolled her eyes.

Our stake tried very hard to integrate and educate the community. We had a fireside one time with the stake president and patriarch where non -member friends could come to ask questions. One lady stood up and made a big ole stink about being saved by grace only and tried to start a public argument about how we think we need to work our way into heaven. She was getting pretty agitated. At that point a member of the stake presidency closed the meeting and invited any further questions to be answered by the missionaries or on an individual basis with the stake leadership. There was definitely a prickly feeling in the air when she was arguing. But it didn't amount to anything more than that.

We do often hear of LDS meeting houses being vandalized and the threats to LDS members in CA over Prop 8 support. I don't live there but wouldn't be at all surprised if that kind of thing isn't still going on on a random basis.

[bcguy]

Pam, I hope you didn't unfriend her but let her do the deed. I think its always important to keep the door open even when faced with the hatred our beliefs attract sometimes.

LM, Yes but not in a face-to-face setting. What I've run into has been online. I'm part of a large online community of people with Chronic Pain. Most realize I'm Christian right away because I don't stick around for bad language, especially taking the Lord's name in vain. When a friend I'd been talking to for over 10 years asked if I was Mormon I said Yes! She had questions. I gave her the 13 Articles of Faith first. When it got to believing the bible as far as it is translated correctly she terminated the conversation and I haven't heard from her since. There have been others but that one hurt the most.

Are there biblical references to such instances of some one leaving some one else because of there faith?

Did she have a bad experience with some one from the LDS Faith? Did she read anti lds material that was probably wrong?

Thanks

[mnn727]

I was going through an old file of LDS-related stuff I used to update. This story was told by a poster named Bernard Gui on the old Zarahemla's Lighthouse board, probably over ten years ago:

I remember Bernard GUI from the FAIR LDS board (I think that's where I saw him at least).

I think this type of thing with Churches sponsoring the 'anti of the moment'is happening less and less but it is still out there.

Hate is as alive as ever on the internet though.

Edited August 20, 2012 by mnn727

[Misshalfway]

I really want to believe that stuff like this is getting better. The fact that we have a mormon as a presidential candidate says a lot! Maybe it's not though. Maybe it's just gone more underground. Or maybe it is just more localized.

My experiences, though, tell a happier story. I have lots of non LDS friends. And they are all respectful of me. The subject of religion isn't brought up a lot but we have discussed certain aspects rather openly and I've never felt that respect on either side was compromised....even if one feeling or another became "heated". I've had to "correct" or ask for more respect like when they joke about mormon underwear. I tend to feel rather sensitive about that. In every case, people have said sorry and have extended more carefulness about how they tease me. :)