When is it time to "throw in the towel" in a marriage?

[Forget_me_not]

I have been married to my husband for over 14 years. We were married in the temple and have 5 children together. Four years ago he told me that he no longer believed the gospel was true and that he didn't want to go on pretending anymore. I was completely blind sided and felt like the foundation on which my life was built on was crumbling beneath me. We have struggled for the past four years trying to find common ground, but besides our children we really don't have anything in common. We were opposites that attracted and we got married young and pretty fast. We had only know each other a little over 4 months when we got married. As most marriages go we've had our ups and downs, but since he's decided to leave the church the downs have out numbered the ups 10-1.

About 6 months after he told me he was leaving the church, I found out I was pregnant with our 5th child. It was an unplanned pregnancy and on his part, unwanted. He became very distant and cold towards me and for awhile he wouldn't even talk to me. I felt very alone during my pregnancy and was afraid to let myself feel joy about a new life entering this world and becoming a part of our family. Then one evening after we had put the kids to bed, he told me he was going to start drinking as a way to deal with the stress. He said that he wasn't asking for my permission, but was telling me as a courtesy. I was stunned. I told him that I didn't want alcohol in the house or around the kids, and he replied that he had already bought a mini fridge with a lock to keep in the computer room. At that moment I thought this is it, I can't go on raising my children with him anymore. But the fear of being a single parent of 4 children with one on the way was too scary...

Things have improved since then, and my husband is a good man. He loves our children and is a good provider, but it's been a struggle for me to raise my children alone in the gospel and I often feel a lot of resentment towards him although I am trying hard to forgive him and love him for who he is. But I don't know that I do love him anymore. We have grown apart and I feel very alone because I don't feel like I can confide in him. He spends his evenings working on the computer and he usually sleeps in our guest bed because he says it's easier for him to sleep. I often feel like we're more like room mates than a couple.

Since his decision to leave the church I have struggled with my own testimony and have sometimes thought that it would be so much easier if I left the church too. But I know in my heart that the gospel is true and I can't deny the confirmations I have felt from the Holy Ghost. I feel like I am falling short though when it comes to raising my children in the gospel. It is difficult to have FHE because my husband doesn't want to be involved. I try to read from the Illustrated scripture stories or from "The Friend" before bedtime with my kids and have family prayer. But it's always a struggle to get my kids to go to church because they want to stay home with Daddy. I've explained to my kids that Daddy lost his testimony, but it's a hard concept for them to really understand. My son told me that he didn't want to go to church anymore because Daddy told him that they brainwash you there.

I want my kids to have the example of a worthy priesthood holder in their lives; I want someone I can go to the temple with and to be able to teach the gospel to my children with; I don't want my heart to ache at night wishing to have someone I can share my hopes, desires, and goals with; I wish I could be stronger and better trust in the Lord; And I want to feel joy not loneliness when I think about spending the rest of my life with my husband.

[NeuroTypical]

When is it time to "throw in the towel" in a marriage?

Picture one of your grown, married children coming to you one day and telling you the same story. You think about your grandkids, and what would be best for them.

What would your advice be to your child?

[applepansy]

Have you spoken to your bishop? You need some support.

When we do our best through hard situations there are often blessings we don't see until we're at the end and are looking back.

My advice is to not talk to your children about the issues you have with their father. When you talk to them about Daddy only say positive things. Its not fair to put them in the middle.

Set the example you hope they will follow. Try to be Christ-like in your relationship with your husband but more importantly with your children. Continue to have family prayer and FHE even if its hard, but don't force your children to be there. Its ok to ask your husband to support you in these efforts. He doesn't have to participate but it would be helpful if he would be supportive with the children. He might refuse because he believes might truly believe the church is "brainwashing" everyone. If that really is his feelings you can't change that but you can ask him to help you in providing a common ground for the children's sake. That might mean that each of you support the other in their choices. What that would teach your children is that everyone has agency. They will soon see the results of their father's choices and yours.

Children are smart. They hear everything and they see more than their parents realize. Don't sell them short. They are being given the chance to exercise their agency in choosing which way to follow. Be the example they need to see.

Edited August 25, 2012 by applepansy

[MorningStar]

I'm so sorry to hear it! My mom was so upset when my dad decided to leave the church. She even went inactive for a short period, but it didn't change at all the way he treated her. It was my brother who told my mom she needed to go back to church, so she did. My dad never talked to us about the church because he knew that would be a deal breaker for my mom. All of us got married in the temple and are active in the church. We wish our dad would come back, but we are grateful that he didn't ruin our family by trying to turn us against it.

Your kids might temporarily want to stay home with your husband, but keep being an example to them. Be as happy and positive as you can and keep going to church. For us, it helped to see what the Gospel did for our mom. We could also see that our dad was not a happy person. He did a lot of fun things, but he wasn't happy.

We struggled with FHE too. Either we didn't have it or we made it more secular to involve my dad. We had prayer at dinner (never said by my dad) and scripture study was mostly done in our rooms. We didn't try to talk him into going to church either. Keeping the Sabbath holy was another issue.

You're in my prayers! I don't know when it's time to throw in the towel, but if you decided to get a divorce, that wouldn't change the influence he has on your kids and their testimonies. In fact, if he had weekend visitation, they would probably be even less likely to go to church.

[MarginOfError]

The best advice I've ever heard is that just cause for a divorce should be nothing less than prolonged and apparently irredeemable relationship that destroys a person’s dignity as a human being.

I personally think you can make your marriage work. But to do so, you'll have to drop the resentment that he doesn't believe the Church is true. If that truly is the primary source of your discontent, I'd suggest that there is a great deal of change you need to make within yourself.

[Hanalei]

Hi, I'm new here but I've been through the same thing, many, MANY years ago.

I was very young, with one baby and another on the way when my then-husband dumped it all on me. I was shocked, hurt, angry. We had been planning on going to the temple and be sealed. He went one step farther and started bringing anti-Mormon literature to me to read. I was so desperate to save my marriage I read those books.

And my testimony GREW!!!

In my case (so this is what *I* know), his leaving the Church that first time had to do with him committing adultery and hiding behind the anti. Once he got caught and came clean, he came back to church. For a while. We ended up divorcing, in part because I wanted a priesthood holder and he didn't believe--AGAIN.

Long story short, he's out of the Church AGAIN after leaving his second wife (who he had been sealed to). He's on wife #4 and they're both involved in a church that is HEAVILY into anti stuff. My children and the children of his second wife suffer because he has no respect for their beliefs. One child of mine has followed in his footsteps and absolutely HATES anything to do with the Church. She parrots what he says and it breaks my heart because it's all lies--and there's nothing I can do about it.

For me? Honestly? I had a chance a very long time ago to walk away with my head held high and conscience clear. I didn't and paid (and continue to pay) the price.

I guess my advice, FWIW, would be along the lines of LM... What would you tell your child if THEY were in the position? I would also suggest making a list of pros and cons for BOTH options: staying in the marriage, or leaving. It's not dependent upon quantity of reasons, but the QUALITY. Ask Heavenly Father. He knows what's beyond the bend.

Good luck!

[alucarD1975]

Why is the first response to a question "have you spoken to your Bishop yet"

I say leave, how do you want your children to be raised? what kind of example do you want in their lives?

[mdfxdb]

Leaving is never easy, but consider as stated above your children, and the environment they will grow up in. Their male role model will not be a member of the church in good standing. That doesn't mean their father is a bad person, and does not have many admirable qualities. If the good qualities of him as a man can over-ride his position on the church, and if he can treat you with the love, respect, dignity you deserve regarless of his feelings for the church then there is an arguement to work it out.

[GeorgiaMike]

Throw in the towel? Would you rather prefer to hear how to gird up your loins?

I have been married to the same amazing but imperfect woman for 27 years. ( In the SL temple, she is related to GA’s). She ”went off the Mormon reservation” about 8 years ago although her first major Jesus-saved-me epiphany including the LDS church is far less than advertised was about 25 years ago. Although we live in Georgia, we go out west to visit family twice yearly and she has befriended most of the ministers and pastors in Utah. She spends quite a bit of time talking to women in their congregations on the internet who have left the LDS church and their husbands have not. Or who have other similar conflicts. We have also been there up close during divorces of close friends more times than I wish to think about. I think I can help you a bit.

First, it is important for you to realize that you have two distinct but interrelated problems with different solutions. The best strategy will be to divide and conquer. They are:

1. Relationship with husband

2. Husband’s apostasy.

#1. You need to seek the assistance of a good marriage counselor as soon as possible. They are very skillful at helping improve marriages and also in sorting out when it is best to move on. I must warn you, at least half of them are incompetent idiots (including some at LDSSA) and another third will have irreconcilable differences of personality or philosophy. You might get lucky and the first one will be a peach. But be prepared to shop around. A good counselor will make you work and change and take you out of your comfort zone. But you will know they are helpful by the results. If a counselor is really nice and listens compassionately but does little else, then you might as well get a golden retriever; it will cost less.

Bishops have little training in marriage therapy. If your toilet flooded would you call the bishop? If your child had an aneurysm that needed brain surgery? Some bishops are also plumbers and doctors but most are not. How is this any different? Bishops can help with spiritual problems and give support. But this marriage is in trouble and you need professional help. With five kids, the stakes are exceeding high.

#2. Your husband is going to do what he is going to do. He has his free agency and he is going to exercise it. He is not a pawn or a vassal. You might think the bishop is the solution to this one. But realize if your husband has already left to the point you describe, he has effectively released your bishop from being his spiritual leader. Direct efforts to reclaim him will probably back fire and might be in the category of unrighteous dominion. Even insincere indirect efforts (love bombs) will be annoying. What he needs is an authentic friend who will listen about 10 times as much as he talks. Not a young fireball Nibley prototype with a ruck sack full of books defending the faith. Not a theological violinist playing cords dripping with guilt, oh how could you do this to your family? Not helpful.

***

You probably could use a good close friend yourself. One person you can trust to open up to and who will share your burdens. I can’t tell you how many times my wife has stayed up most of the night listening to her friends struggling with severe marital or personal problems. Often they bring their children for me to entertain. We would have pizza and games and a cray paper campfire in the rumpus room. Usually this would turn into a slumber party including a place for their mother to take a nap nearby when the approaching dawn interrupts the all-night session in another part of the house. These were hard times, when my ability to find the words to pray was exceeded. I would have all of the children from both families pray in turns going around the circle before they went to bed.

I think you will both be happier the more open and honest and tolerant and forgiving and grateful you can be with each other. You are probably going to have to make some compromises with your beliefs in order to strengthen your marriage to where it will flourish and be satisfying to both of you. But you will not have to give up very much essential to being Mormon. I can’t tell you which sacrifices of belief will be necessary for you.

For example, in my case I still believe that I will be with my wife in the next Iife even though she has tossed the garments and sneaks ice tea and a few other things. She does not believe in celestial marriage any more. How that will work out I don’t know. I have also given up this idea that the LDS faith is the only way for everyone. I have come to believe the Lord is guiding her along this path but where it will go and why I do not know.

One silver lining is that I have been the one to take several ministers in Utah on tours of temple square where they were intensely interested in what we believe, but not for the purpose of conversion. Although a democrat my wife is probably the single most effective grass roots campaigner for Romney in this state because she has been invited to speak at several seminars for local influential ministers who want the inside story of whether a Mormon president will be a problem for them. It is thin comfort, these silver linings.

Some things your husband does will impact you in drastic ways. But you have to adapt and learn to live with it and even laugh at some of it. My wife will not pay tithing and I frankly don’t want thousands of dollars flowing into the coffers of her church either. The compromise after years of bitter conflict is that we put our tithing into a fund for a purpose yet to be determined. It has grown to over $100,000 at this point. Rather amusing, I think. However, this results in no temple recommend for me and no substantial callings. I happen to know that in families with the husband as the bread winner, if he doesn’t allow his wife to pay tithing she can still be given a temple recommend if the bishop determines her heart is in the right place. This is unfair but the way that it is.

You must also be prepared for unkindness from insensitive or misguided ward members, some in high places. My bishop told me 7 years ago to divorce my wife and find another woman to take me to the celestial kingdom. I told him to go to hell. Ward members called to teach were mean to my children when they acted up and they could be pretty bad, especially my oldest daughter who was such a little hell cat that she got permanently kicked out of primary and booted many times from YW and slapped in the face. The next one was worse, less noisy perhaps. Maybe I was used to it by then. The bishop later apologized and asked me for “a blanket forgiveness” for all the things he had done wrong that hurt us. I did and sometimes I have to forgive him again, as often as every day. Not every bishop is man enough to do this and only one other other ward member was. Forgiveness goes both ways.

Lucky for the LDS church, my oldest daughter was 13 when her mother left and as an act of teenage rebellion she became fanatically yet somehow insincerely devoted to the church as a way to fight with her mother. This kept our kids in the church. A wonderful woman and early morning seminary teacher patched up some of the cracks. But usually the mother has about 10 times as much influence on the religion of children as the father, except older teenage boys. In truth, you have no way to predict what any one of your children will do, only ill-defined statistical trends.

Your husband does not have to make a complete break with the LDS faith. You can find ways to involve him at a level where he is comfortable. I knew a former bishop gone sour who only came to the annual July 24th ward activity. Better than nothing. Others might see the church as a good venue to perform community service in spite of their complete disbelief. We do quite a bit of service but most of it is directed internally to other members or to the church. You might be inspired to define new callings that your husband (and you) would actually want do in the community. Organize ward service at a food bank or organize blood drives or even lead the ward in building a house for habitat for humanity. Your imagination is the only limit.

If you have 5 children at least one of them is probably a boy and scouting becomes an excellent opportunity for any father and son to weave a glorious family tapestry of adventure, service and achievement together. Even if your husband is not given a calling, fathers are always welcome to come camping and attend meetings. Since most LDS scout leaders are short timers and poorly trained, after a few years a father devoted to scouting will by default acquire the most expertise in the ward and will be deeply appreciated. And de facto in charge.

I know a nasty little secret; in most protestant churches the majority of the men are extremely skeptical and go mostly to please their wives and help their children “learn values,” whatever that means. And you might be surprised to find that we Mormons are not immune from this tendency. If you sniff around the back rows at priesthood meeting you will find others like your husband; you are not alone.

Different faiths have their strengths and weakness. Mormonism is strong and good in so many ways. But it is a tough church for mixed faith families and not many remain. You may become a pioneer for not a few others who will face similar challenges. When God closes a door he usually at least opens a window.

[RMGuy]

There is a pretty similar thread going on at another site right now, but from the opposite side of the equation. The Lingo thread got me thinking. Sometimes we hear what we think the other person is saying, rather than what they really intend.

To the OP, the post that I am referring to on another site is probably not your spouse. Yet there are some similarities. That individual talked about why if he can respect his wife's believes can she not respect his? He too has left the church, and he too has had a few drinks, sometimes around the kids? He wonders how splitting up would solve any of the problems that she has listed (ie he would still drink if they were divorce and the kids would still know).

The interesting part is that he still loves his wife, still wants to stay married.

I think sometimes we look at our spouses (I can be guilty of this too) and think if only they would change this or that instead of looking for the common ground. At the end of the day, only you know your situation, and we are all just strangers on a discussion board. I hope that in some small way maybe something you read above in either this post or some of the others is in some way beneficial.

All the best

-RM

[shdwlkr]

From a different view my ex divorced me and yes she is sort of active with her new man and pregnant at 54 and they expect me to be the kind one and bend over every time and issue comes up in their lives and it is many times when it is my time to have time with the two kids that still care about dad. The ex and her new man are working hard to turn these two against me but it has not worked so far.

When our companion turn on us it is either a challenge or a blessing in time.

There are going to be issues no matter if you stay married or divorce. My kids tell me they are at church more with me than the ex. Parenting is totally different in my house as compared to the ex's and punishment in my house is fun for the kids and they sometimes act up just to get some. I tickle them a lot is easier on me and they like it.

When with me the kids can make choices and sometimes it comes back to bite them but they know dad will just laugh and on we go.

Somethings to really think about:

Do you and your husband really still love each other?

If you get divorced will it really change anything ?

How will the kids take it if you do get a divorce, will you become the bad guy?

Look at maybe seeing if your husband will go to the social activities of the church and enjoy those times where there is no real pressure on him or you

Go find a good counselor to work with you on the issues you are facing. No don't go to a social worker they don't have the real training to deal with the mental stress you are dealing with and will deal with in the future.

What will you do if your kids as they get older do refuse to attend church? will you throw a fit and make them go? will you allow them to make their own choices and live with the results?

Lastly have you got down on your knees and prayed for answers to why these challenges have come into your life?

Find a real friend that will not judge or question you as to why this or that happened but will just be a real friend and be there for you. It might be a church member or not it is just someone you can confide in and feel safe that it stops there.

As for me in my life I am getting closer and closer to never again becoming involved in a relationship again ever. Yes it is my choice but I have to worry about my kids I see every so often and they are very important to me and that they are safe.

See I have found that relationships are nothing like they were a few decades ago there is no real long lasting commitment to each other, no real love, no real feelings for the other person and most of all marriage has gotten a bum rap over the decades and way to many are accepting that nothing lasts forever.

So if your husband still loves you and is willing to stay, don't be foolish and throw him out the door with the bath water you just might never find someone that cares that much again even with all his short comings. NO one in this life is perfect or without flaws and it is up to you to look at all the pluses and minuses and see which road is better for you. None of us here can make that decision for you. We can tell you what life has handed us and how we dealt with it or are dealing with it but each one of us is different, has different needs, wants, and desires

Best of luck and I hope it works out for the best for you and your kids and even your husband

[SoCal_Counselor]

Would you throw in the towel if there was a 75% chance that you could have a could marriage? What if there was only a 50% chance? 10%? 1%? There are things that you can do to strengthen your marriage even though he no longer desires to be a member of the church. When you were first married, though you had differences, you had the shared values from the church in common. I would suggest having a discussion about the shared values that you both have now. Though he may not be interested in the church, he might value family, hard work, etc.

I can tell you from working with other couples that life does not get any easier after divorce.

[tumbledquartz]

When I told my bishop that I was seriously thinking about a divorce, one of the things he said to me is that from his experience with other couples, the hell they were living in before divorce was nothing compared to the hell that came during and after divorce. That's not to say no one should ever divorce; just that it shouldn't be looked at as an easy way out of your problems. Like others have pointed out, he might have even more influence on your kids after a divorce because there will be times when they are in his custody and you have no control over that environment, over whether they make it to church, or over the conversions they have while you aren't there.

I can't tell you what the right thing to do is, but I can tell you this: you should pray earnestly and often, and don't make a decision until you can confidently say that the thing you are doing is what God wants you to do. With kids in the equation, the stakes are too high to have to live with regrets - get the counsel of your bishop and a good marriage therapist, etc. but most importantly, get the direction of the spirit and then follow it.

Good luck!!

[Rabboni]

Apostasy of a spouse is not an excuse for divorce. And that's right from the Bible.