Don't bring your gun.. Too much to ask?

[NeuroTypical]

Well again, anne, I carry concealed, which means you wouldn't know one way or the other. Maybe you could explain what would cause you to complain?

I still don't see any differences in my life coming from your trust or lack thereof, your objections or lack thereof, even if we had daily face-to-face interaction with each other. I mean, if I was coming to your house or business I wouldn't carry out of respect for your desires, but then again I don't carry in homes of people I know anyway. But any other place on earth where we would interact, I'm bound by conceal carry laws - not by a fellow citizen's trust or objections. And since I do it right, my fellow citizens don't know one way or the other.

[annewandering]

Well again, anne, I carry concealed, which means you wouldn't know one way or the other. Maybe you could explain what would cause you to complain?

I still don't see any differences in my life coming from your trust or lack thereof, your objections or lack thereof, even if we had daily face-to-face interaction with each other. I mean, if I was coming to your house or business I wouldn't carry out of respect for your desires, but then again I don't carry in homes of people I know anyway. But any other place on earth where we would interact, I'm bound by conceal carry laws - not by a fellow citizen's trust or objections. And since I do it right, my fellow citizens don't know one way or the other.

It is the law. It makes me feel so good to have you remind me of it. Yep. Every person I meet outside my house could very well be carrying their favorite 'toy'. Hey thanks for the reminder!

I am thinking I am glad for internet shopping.

[KevlarH]

I would join in agreement with others saying it should be considered inappropriate and inconsiderate to bring a gun to church or a home of another; at least leave it locked up in your car. The only place I would reconsider it is if I lived in Mexico. It seems even the most innocent of activities down there brings some gangster showing up.

[annewandering]

I would join in agreement with others saying it should be considered inappropriate and inconsiderate to bring a gun to church or a home of another; at least leave it locked up in your car. The only place I would reconsider it is if I lived in Mexico. It seems even the most innocent of activities down there brings some gangster showing up.

I would agree with one provision. Stay out of Mexico. That place is getting so bad the military wont even let soldiers cross the border south of El Paso.

Heres and interesting news story for you gun people. Wife Of State Lawmaker Injured In Home Explosion | KMVT | Twin Falls, ID News, Weather and Sports | Idaho News, Weather and Sports | Local

Gun safe huh? lol.

[FunkyTown]

I don't get the big deal and feel that nobody should be able to strip me of my right to bear arms. This one guy once complained about my personal protection devices and I said, "Look, Bishop. If the US government didn't want a screaming guy clothed only in a belt that held the heads of his enemies, running down the street with a drawn battle axe, maybe they shoulda put THAT in the constitution."

I just wish more people understood their rights.

[mirkwood]

September = 710 hours.

Removing sleep hours = 510 hours.

196 hours at work = 314 hours

Let's make a real conservative guess that 1/3 of those remaining hours are spent out in public = 105 hours.

105 public hours + 196 work hours = 301 hours.

So, a minimum of 301 hours last month I carried a firearm with me when away from home. 301 hours in public with a firearm and not one single shot fired.

Gosh...imagine that.

[FunkyTown]

September = 710 hours.

Removing sleep hours = 510 hours.

196 hours at work = 314 hours

Let's make a real conservative guess that 1/3 of those remaining hours are spent out in public = 105 hours.

105 public hours + 196 work hours = 301 hours.

So, a minimum of 301 hours last month I carried a firearm with me when away from home. 301 hours in public with a firearm and not one single shot fired.

Gosh...imagine that.

September = 710 hours.

Removing sleep hours = 510 hours.

196 hours at work = 314 hours.

Let's make a real conservative guess that 1/3 of those remaining hours are spent out in public =105 hours.

105 public hours + 196 work hours = 301 hours.

So a minimum of 301 hours last month, I carried a battle axe with me when away from home. 301 hours in public and not one single head was chopped off.

Gosh... Imagine that.

[john doe]

September = 710 hours.

Removing sleep hours = 510 hours.

196 hours at work = 314 hours.

Let's make a real conservative guess that 1/3 of those remaining hours are spent out in public =105 hours.

105 public hours + 196 work hours = 301 hours.

So a minimum of 301 hours last month, I carried a battle axe with me when away from home. 301 hours in public and not one single head was chopped off.

Gosh... Imagine that.

How often has someone attacked you while carrying that battle axe? It would be interesting to know how many potential crimes were averted merely because someone saw you packing that axe around.

[FunkyTown]

How often has someone attacked you while carrying that battle axe? It would be interesting to know how many potential crimes were averted merely because someone saw you packing that axe around.

And that's what I'm talking about! The right to bear arms is sacrosanct. If I were a bus driver, or a taxi driver, I'd carry my own battle axe around just like me. Wanna try to ride the bus for free now, punk? HUNH?!?!

[john doe]

And that's what I'm talking about! The right to bear arms is sacrosanct. If I were a bus driver, or a taxi driver, I'd carry my own battle axe around just like me. Wanna try to ride the bus for free now, punk? HUNH?!?!

Good for you. Everyone should take advantage of the right to defend themselves. However, I suggest a firearm since it would present less bulk under your jacket while walking the streets. Besides which, the time it would take to remove a battle axe from a protective sheath (you don't carry it openly unsheathed, do you? That seems a bit unsafe.) could possibly be time-consuming in a street robbery. Unless you live in a country where obtaining a concealed-carry firearms permit is nearly impossible, in which case it would make sense to openly carry your axe.

[NeuroTypical]

I get lost pretty quickly when we start drawing humerous analogies to reinforce a point. I can never track the point that we're trying to reinforce.

Anyway, in February, the CATO institute released a white paper:

Tough Targets: When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens | Clayton E. Cramer and David Burnett | Cato Institute: White Paper

It talks about the difficulties in creating and using reliable statistics about the effectiveness of concealed carry, and it suggests a number of conclusions the authors believe to be reasonable and supportable. I suggest it to anyone who wants a fuller and deeper understanding of the issue and all it's complexities.

For people who just can't imagine that guns ever do any good, you can take a look at this map which pins out some incidences from 2004 to the present, of private citizens using firearms to prevent crime.

Guns and Self Defense: Interactive Map

[Dixielee]

This has been a very interesting thread! My first thought was that if someone knows I am carrying, then I am doing it wrong! I got my first CCW when I was a 23 year old nurse working in a downtown Atlanta ER, getting off work at midnight. I got my first gun the week a friend of mine was raped and beaten nearly to death in the hospital parking lot.

I am rapidly approaching 60 and have carried since. I carry because I want to level the playing field. Yes, the bad guys will always have weapons. If they can't get a gun, they will get a knife. If they can't get a knife, they will get a tire iron. If they can't get that, they use fists, and feet. Laws will NEVER stop them, they will only make it more difficult for the good guys to go about their lives.

I still work in a very busy ER and it is getting more and more dangerous just to be at work! I have been in the building on two separate occasions in two different states when an ER doctor was shot by an irate family member.

While I don't currently carry on my person while working, I am considering it. I have not yet decided what the ramifications would be if I had to shoot someone in self defense at work. Assaults on health care workers are increasing, and while they are considered a felony, most don't get prosecuted. There have been about 10 fairly serious injuries to my co-workers this year while at work. The most serious had a broken jaw. One had a broken arm, and most had bruises and neck or back injuries.

I don't announce to anyone I am carrying, and it is never an issue. I carry a loaded gun, because an unloaded gun might as well be a rock.

I refuse to live in fear. I do not ever want to be a "victim". Can I still be attacked and assaulted? Of course, but I am doing all I can to improve the odds in my favor.

Are guns dangerous? NO, they are merely pieces of metal and plastic. Do stupid people abound? Yes, and some of them are armed. A responsible gun owner would never, ever point a firearm at someone, loaded or unloaded unless they were prepared to fire that weapon. There are people who should not have firearms. But there are people who also should not be allowed to drive, have children or roam the streets too!

In all my years as an ER nurse, I have seen relatively few gun shot wounds (percentages), and the only "accidental" ones were the result of someone being stupid!

On the other hand, I have seen thousands of injuries resulting from vehicle accidents (actually they are not called MVA's anymore but MVC's for motor vehicle crash). I can't begin to tell you how many lacerations I have seen as a result of kitchen utensils. Knives, scissors and blenders. I can't believe how many people put their hands in blenders that are on!

Farm machinery!! Very dangerous!! I have seen a number of deaths, dismemberment's and serious injury from tractors, trucks, combines, etc.

Should we ban everything that is potentially dangerous? I think we should just ban stupid people. But alas, if not for stupid people, I would be unemployed.

Just my .02 worth

[KevlarH]

I guess I'm lost in this conversation. I thought the point of the original post was whether it was inappropriate to bring your gun into Church or a fellow members house. Not whether guns should be banned or not. I'm all for the right to bear arms, but I think there are a few places you should not bring it in.

[shdwlkr]

You know I have read all through this post and find it interesting that it strayed so far off the OP.

First if you have been asked not to carry at someone's house then you don't simple as that.

Second the police can't be everywhere to protect everyone all the time just simple math will answer that question. Look how many police there are where you live compared to the number of residents.

New York state has some of most restrictive pistol laws in the nation. NO you can not carry openly, No you can not carry concealed with out a permit and they are getting harder to get a general concealed carry permit, they have several firearms that are banned period. Like the AR platform better be sure it is allowed where you are and even the magazine is the right size or you could be in hot water.

Now where I live I can carry open or concealed as I have a cc, but that is sort of moot because what I carry can still be sort of seen as it is just plain big in size.

No firearm ever made has ever been convicted of killing a person or another firearm. It requires a human element to become a bad tool or a good tool. Yes firearms are tools, they are not killing machines until they are used for that reason by a human being.

Now if you don't want a firearm in your home that is fine, but if you choose to have one get as many classes as you can on how to use them, realize that if you pull a gun out it is to protect you and yours and that you just might have to take another's life to do so. If you can not accept that then don't bring a gun to the issue that you are dealing with as it will maybe get you dead by the perpt that doesn't care about your life and sees it as a chance to get a gun to use else where and if you live it is your fault because you let him/her get away with your gun.

I was in a ward once where our bishop was a state trooper and did he come to church in uniform yes many times did he carry his weapon into church yes he did it was part of his uniform and would have cost his job to not be carrying. Do members carry at church and not talk about it you better believe in the more rural wards they sure do. My current bishop knows if I come to church dressed differently than I usually do that I am carrying and he is fine with it. It is his responsibility to say it is ok or no you can't in his ward building.

Just as a side note do you think when the General Authorities travel with their body guards that the guards leave their firearms in the vehicles? I would be willing to bet that they don't and yet members are told to leave theirs at home. The reason is quite simple in theory and that is if members get into a headed discussion and firearms are easy to access things could go bad, where if falls down in this day and age of terrorists is what would be said if some went into a ward building and shot the members killing a lot of them, remember when we go to church we take our families with us. Many have small children how do you rationalize the General Authorities need protection but normal members do not question?

I am not trying to start a debate but it would pose and interesting discussion I would think if it ever happened and I pray it never does but other churches it has and that is why I brought it up. I am not in disagreement with the general church policy as I can see both sides of the issue. I can even see where something bad might happen and I might be carrying and never bring my pistol out of its holster. What would that be? If more would get hurt by my bringing my pistol out to try and defend others and myself then I would not bring it out simple as that.

I spent years in the military and several cc classes and it always was when to bring out a firearm must be thought out very carefully as you could make the situation worse by doing so and that is not what you want to happen.

I have gone out with several who wanted nothing to do with a firearm and when we got done they were excited to know when they could go again. We mainly used 22 long rifle arms and shot at yes I know this is hard to accept paper, empty pop cans, empty milk gallon jugs and horrors of horrors sometimes we even put water in them.

Now if you wanted to hone your skills for self defense and had gone through a CC class we brought out targets that had real faces on them and taught where to aim and hit the target and just how to shoot the target. Why real faces because the jerk that is trying to harm you has a real face and you need to be ok with this when you pull the trigger. Also you have to realize that the police are going to be very very interested in why you shot the jerk in the first place. Nope the fact he/she is in your home and got in by breaking in is not always a good reason, the fact they were beating on a family member is a good beginning, but again that is not always a good idea.

Years ago when I working in a hospital we had a young man that came in with a gun shot wound and the shooter was in jail. The shooter was a home owner who claimed he was defending his home, problem was the young man was shot in the back and from above so how was he a threat to the home owner? The court saw it as abuse of deadly force so the home owner got to visit jail for a few years.

In another one the person was shot in the chest twice and claimed the home owner stepped out and just shot him. Well for starters there was a big blood stain on the bedroom floor and broken door on the house the home owner had been beaten bad enough he was in the hospital also. The person who was shot in the chest got a burglary charge, attempted murder charge (should tell how bad the home owner was beaten and yes he got some jail time for all of this and lying to the police and medical staff when he went into the hospital for medial help.

I have had at least one firearm with me since I was 12 years old and you know I have never seen a unloaded firearm ever do anything stupid on it own. I have never seen a loaded firearm go off all by itself just because it felt like it. I have seen stupid people do stupid things with firearms and strange things happen. I have always tried to be safe with my firearms and so far it has worked for me.

I have a cc because it is just one more thing I can do to protect myself and family and friends if needed and yes I keep a look out for places, situations that just might not be a good place to be. I have walked down dark alleys, dark streets and wondered if that was a smart idea or not and nope didn't always have a firearm either. Would it have made me feel safer if I had I really don't know as nothing happened anyways so how much different it would have made me feel I don't know. Today I would most likely not even bother walking in those two situations if I can prevent it.

Some of the fear of firearms comes from the movies we see and TV programs we watch and see all that the firearm can do, strange thing is that in real life it doesn't happen that way. There is no firearm outside of maybe the 50 caliber sniper rifle that is going to lift the individual shot up off their feet just doesn't happen. Another thing that just because you shoot someone doesn't mean the threat is over depending on where they have been hit, how many times they have been hit and how powerful (i hate that word but can think of a better one) just how much damage has been done to the functioning of the person shot. Heck I remember a pistol with only six rounds firing something like 20-30 times in one movie and the guy never had to reload!! Doesn't happen in real life it you only have six rounds in the pistol that is all you get to shoot before you have to reload. Most shootings only last 6 shots or so any way if you put your bullets in the right place in the first place but that means you have to have fired a lot of times and know your firearm like it is part of you.

Oh well I have ranted long enough and hope you get the idea I am not against firearms, not against someone saying please don't come to my house with one and most of all the LEO's in this world get a lot of bad press because of the small number of LEO's that just plain loose it in uniform. I have friends that are LEO's and I would never want their job. We talk sometimes about situations they come up on and have to deal with and for the most part I think they show great even fantastic restraint compared to what I would like to have done in that situation.