Insights on Miscarried Babies

[Urso]

My son and Daughter just lost their first child after 4 months of pregnancy. They are sad as is the rest of our family but took the easy way out by consoling ourselves that nature has a way of dealing with imperfect bodies. This was not exactly a satisfying response since it does not address the issue that many physically and mentally imperfect children are born every day. I tried to put this on the shelf to reexamine the issue but it keeps nagging at me. A sister in the ward, who should know what she is talking about, (don't you hate it when this clause is added) told my wife and I that of course these bodies have a spirit and that Sarah was told that she will be able to care for these children until the millenium after which they will be raised by the parents of their physical bodies until maturity. Has anyone ever heard this doctrine taught? It is so specific that I have to believe that there is some basis for it. Anyone have any references that I can study to better understand this issue?

Thanks,

[applepansy]

Yes I've heard this taught. Rarely is it applied to miscarriage until the last trimester.

I've had three miscarriages. Only one bothered me enough that I took it to the Lord in prayer. I suggest you do the same because the answer I got for me might not be the right answer for you. There are all sorts of principles involved here, the least of which is agency (not your's but the spirit who might have been getting that body).

[mikbone]

Some women are unable to raise all their children to maturity, because their children die at an early age. The Prophet Joseph taught that many of these children were too pure and lovely to live in the corruption on earth. Even as we mourn their present loss to us, we have reason to rejoice because they have been delivered from evil. (See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 196–97.) He also taught that those who die before the age of eight are saved in the celestial kingdom (see D&C 137:10). The mothers of these children, if they live faithfully, will raise them to maturity during the Millennium (see Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed. [1939], 455–56).

Copied from LDS.org - Relief Society Chapter Detail - The Latter-day Saint Woman

I believe that the above statements were concerning children that are born live that die before the age of accountability, not miscarriages.

Children who pass away By Common Consent, a Mormon Blog

The above link is a good collection of statements concerning children that die before accountability.

Edited September 30, 2012 by mikbone

[annewandering]

Only thing I have to offer is that when I was pregnant I got to know my children. They were all different as they are different now. I have lost babies in miscarriage and one was born stillborn so I do have some experience with this. For me they were different than the babies who lived but not in any lack of personality/spirit. Often times they seemed to leave for a time but then return. How could this be if they were not bodies with spirits? I believe this is something that you have to pray about and work out in your mind. If your son and daughter have received comfort then let them have that and seek your own. What ever the technicalities are you can receive that comfort.

[horax]

Yes I've heard this taught. Rarely is it applied to miscarriage until the last trimester.

I've had three miscarriages. Only one bothered me enough that I took it to the Lord in prayer. I suggest you do the same because the answer I got for me might not be the right answer for you. There are all sorts of principles involved here, the least of which is agency (not your's but the spirit who might have been getting that body).

No offense, but the third trimester is not brought into play.

What is important is to knwo when a body is created. Does it matter if the body is perfect or a certain age? No it doesnt'.

The Lord's plan is for every spirit to receive a body.

At conception, the body has been created, no matter how small. Those children who die prior to PHYSICAL birth have rights to those bodies and have been spared of the evils of this world due to their righteousness in the pre-existence.

Also, 2 min is still younger than the age of years.

[Guest]

No offense, but the third trimester is not brought into play.

What is important is to knwo when a body is created. Does it matter if the body is perfect or a certain age? No it doesnt'.

The Lord's plan is for every spirit to receive a body.

At conception, the body has been created, no matter how small. Those children who die prior to PHYSICAL birth have rights to those bodies and have been spared of the evils of this world due to their righteousness in the pre-existence.

Also, 2 min is still younger than the age of years.

The official doctrine of the Church regarding this is that the Spirit joins the body sometime between conception and birth. Exactly when that is, is not known. So, it is possible that a miscarriage was merely a death of a body and not a spiritual being.

[horax]

That very well could be. It enters the whole Roe vs. Wade discussion that will never be decided on this Earth.

[mnn727]

I have heard it taught also, and people say it to comfort those that have the loss, but there is no Doctrine to back it. I doubt we will know the answer this side of the Eternities.

[Guest]

That very well could be. It enters the whole Roe vs. Wade discussion that will never be decided on this Earth.

No, it doesn't really have anything to do with Roe versus Wade. Willfully terminating a pregnancy conceived with the full exercise of free agency required to sanctify the act of procreation is a sin, regardless of whether the spirit has entered the body or not. For those cases like rape where the full exercise of free agency was removed, soiling the sanctity of procreation, it still requires prayerful appeal to the Holy Spirit as well as the keys of discernment of a bishop to guide the decision to willfully terminate the pregnancy. Therefore, the decision of the Supreme Court does not hold any water for a faithful LDS member.

[Seminarysnoozer]

They are sad as is the rest of our family but took the easy way out by consoling ourselves that nature has a way of dealing with imperfect bodies. This was not exactly a satisfying response since it does not address the issue that many physically and mentally imperfect children are born every day.

Thanks, these are good questions.

I have lost two children in a similar way. I believe I have read somewhere that it could be the point at which there is a "quickening" when the mother feels the spirit enter the body if there is such a spiritual connection from the mother I suppose. This may be how the mother of John the Baptist knew of the importance of the baby she was carrying.

The above statements, I agree, are not very satisfying more so when one thinks about the fact that actually everyone born into this world are "physically and mentally imperfect". The plan was not to have a perfect body here, otherwise how would we die and return to our heavenly home?

Once I get a chance to reunite with the two I lost and talk with them as the mature spirits they are, the idea (at least for me) of raising them in the millennium as an infant on seems rather bizarre. I am not sure of the purpose for such a thing even though I know that there are statements out there like that. I have a hard time understanding the reason for such a thing. That will have to be explained to me in greater detail some day if I am asked to do such a thing. For me, I would rather have them receive the perfected adult body and move on without having to take such backward steps.

[MarginOfError]

Miscarriage is the loss of a pregnancy in the first 20 weeks. (In medical articles, you may see the term "spontaneous abortion" used in place of miscarriage.) About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, and more than 80 percent of these losses happen before 12 weeks.

This doesn't include situations in which you lose a fertilized egg before a pregnancy becomes established. Studies have found that 30 to 50 percent of fertilized eggs are lost before or during the process of implantation – often so early that a woman goes on to get her period at about the expected time.

Understanding miscarriage | BabyCenter

If we are to claim that all bodies receive a spirit at conception, then it would seem that nearly 50% of all Spirits designated to come to earth are being spared the trials of mortality. That number seems kind of high to sustain the belief that these spirits were ultra valiant and need that kind of protection. 30 - 50% would make them uncommon and not so special.

I would also point out that the Church's policy on stillborn children is that they may be added to family group sheets, but temple ordinances are not performed in their behalf. This is, to me, an implication that the Church doesn't know what happens with such spirits and is unwilling to commit to a doctrine either way.

It is my personal opinion that miscarriages, by and large, are the natural result that natural process that has only a very small level of involvement, if any, from the spirits awaiting those bodies.

I think we would do well to do away with the idea that all bodies receive a spirit at conception, or at least that those spirits are bound eternally to those bodies. Late-term miscarriages and still-born births are harder to understand, but in these cases, I'm less interested in dogma than I am in helping the individuals grieve and cope with their loss.

[applepansy]

No offense, but the third trimester is not brought into play.

What is important is to knwo when a body is created. Does it matter if the body is perfect or a certain age? No it doesnt'.

The Lord's plan is for every spirit to receive a body.

At conception, the body has been created, no matter how small. Those children who die prior to PHYSICAL birth have rights to those bodies and have been spared of the evils of this world due to their righteousness in the pre-existence.

Also, 2 min is still younger than the age of years.

None taken. You're misunderstanding me.

See bolded: I wholeheartedly agree.

[applepansy]

Because of my experiences and because of what I was taught by the Spirit, I believe each Spirit gets to accept the body being grown for them or not.

I have felt the Spirits of my children prior to birth. One to the point I new how soft-hearted and gentle he was and couldn't believe He could be anything but a She. My mistake... I got a very soft-hearted, gentle boy.

Sunday our Gospel Doctrine teacher brought up something interesting. Christ visited the America's while Mary was pregnant. Think about that. He wasn't tied to that body she was growing. He came and went as annewandering described. I've felt my little ones spirits come and go too.

[applepansy]

If we are to claim that all bodies receive a spirit at conception, then it would seem that nearly 50% of all Spirits designated to come to earth are being spared the trials of mortality. That number seems kind of high to sustain the belief that these spirits were ultra valiant and need that kind of protection. 30 - 50% would make them uncommon and not so special.

I would also point out that the Church's policy on stillborn children is that they may be added to family group sheets, but temple ordinances are not performed in their behalf. This is, to me, an implication that the Church doesn't know what happens with such spirits and is unwilling to commit to a doctrine either way.

It is my personal opinion that miscarriages, by and large, are the natural result that natural process that has only a very small level of involvement, if any, from the spirits awaiting those bodies.

I think we would do well to do away with the idea that all bodies receive a spirit at conception, or at least that those spirits are bound eternally to those bodies. Late-term miscarriages and still-born births are harder to understand, but in these cases, I'm less interested in dogma than I am in helping the individuals grieve and cope with their loss.

Temple ordinances should not be performed for any child who dies prior to age 8, not just stillborn babies. They are already saved.

[Anddenex]

My son and Daughter just lost their first child after 4 months of pregnancy. They are sad as is the rest of our family but took the easy way out by consoling ourselves that nature has a way of dealing with imperfect bodies. This was not exactly a satisfying response since it does not address the issue that many physically and mentally imperfect children are born every day. I tried to put this on the shelf to reexamine the issue but it keeps nagging at me. A sister in the ward, who should know what she is talking about, (don't you hate it when this clause is added) told my wife and I that of course these bodies have a spirit and that Sarah was told that she will be able to care for these children until the millenium after which they will be raised by the parents of their physical bodies until maturity. Has anyone ever heard this doctrine taught? It is so specific that I have to believe that there is some basis for it. Anyone have any references that I can study to better understand this issue?

Thanks,

There are too many variables to a miscarriage, and a lot of the answers given are surely people's opinion.

We know that prayer has a powerful effect on people's lives. Could a prayer have been said regarding having a physically developed child that would be technically "normal" in this life?

My wife went through 5 miscarriages, and she believes one of the miscarriages we lost twins.

This is a great verse when things happen out of our control 2 Nephi 2: 24.

I am in understanding with Anatess. It really depends on whether or not the spirit entered the body, or not. The church has no official declaration pertaining to when the spirit enters, just that it enters sometime between conception and birth. The only record we have in scripture is John the Baptist who leaped in his mother's womb.

Joseph Smith once declared that maybe children who die so young, or at birth, is because they only needed a body, there time was up, and we have consolation that the Lord will never take any of us before our time, assuming we don't made a really dumb decision.

[annewandering]

Because of my experiences and because of what I was taught by the Spirit, I believe each Spirit gets to accept the body being grown for them or not.

I have felt the Spirits of my children prior to birth. One to the point I new how soft-hearted and gentle he was and couldn't believe He could be anything but a She. My mistake... I got a very soft-hearted, gentle boy.

Sunday our Gospel Doctrine teacher brought up something interesting. Christ visited the America's while Mary was pregnant. Think about that. He wasn't tied to that body she was growing. He came and went as annewandering described. I've felt my little ones spirits come and go too.

Applepansy, its ironic I had the same experience of feeling the spirits of my children. One was so very strong I was sure that we would have our first living son. I was truly shocked when the baby was a girl. As she grew we saw there was no mistake. She was my wolfchild baby, very wilful child and difficult teen and is now in the army nearing retirement. She is an amazing person with a very solid strength. Just exactly as I had felt her spirit. I was very sick with her due to a vicious flu that killed a lot of pregnant women. This child shut down and waited a month to let me regain my strength.

She CARED for me before she was even born. No one is going to convince me she wasnt there.

[MarginOfError]

Temple ordinances should not be performed for any child who dies prior to age 8, not just stillborn babies. They are already saved.

Baptisms and confirmations are not performed for children who die prior to age eight, but other temple ordinances are.

Stillborn Children (Children Who Die before Birth)

Temple ordinances are not performed for stillborn children. However, this does not deny the possibility that a stillborn child may be part of the family in the eternities. Parents are encouraged to trust the Lord to resolve such cases in the way He knows is best. The family may record the name of a stillborn child on the family group record, followed by the word stillborn in parentheses.

Memorial or graveside services may be held as determined by the parents.

It is a fact that a child has life before birth. However, there is no direct revelation on when the spirit enters the body.

Selected Church Policies 

For example, a family that has a still born child prior to joining the Church would not include the stillborn child during their sealing although they might include their living children.

[Seminarysnoozer]

If we are to claim that all bodies receive a spirit at conception, then it would seem that nearly 50% of all Spirits designated to come to earth are being spared the trials of mortality. That number seems kind of high to sustain the belief that these spirits were ultra valiant and need that kind of protection. 30 - 50% would make them uncommon and not so special.

I would also point out that the Church's policy on stillborn children is that they may be added to family group sheets, but temple ordinances are not performed in their behalf. This is, to me, an implication that the Church doesn't know what happens with such spirits and is unwilling to commit to a doctrine either way.

It is my personal opinion that miscarriages, by and large, are the natural result that natural process that has only a very small level of involvement, if any, from the spirits awaiting those bodies.

I think we would do well to do away with the idea that all bodies receive a spirit at conception, or at least that those spirits are bound eternally to those bodies. Late-term miscarriages and still-born births are harder to understand, but in these cases, I'm less interested in dogma than I am in helping the individuals grieve and cope with their loss.

Even 20% of all miscarriages would be a large number. The number, if taken for all time until now, would probably be greater than the number of people that would call themselves members of Church of Christ (meaning the churches in eras that were guided by those that had priesthood authority to do so given by God) for all time until now. Then add all those that die before the age of 8 which in some populations can be as high as 5% of the total population. I would venture to say that most of the people that find themselves in the Celestial Kingdom did not experience much of mortality and likely never experienced anything beyond the age of accountability, therefore never experiencing sin. .... Well, hopefully I am wrong about that.

[talisyn]

Personal revelation is a great gift. Probably the best one we have been given.

[slamjet]

I have my views from personal experience, but I found a source that seems to touch on a lot of what is being discussed. So here is the link (Question & Answer, Sept 1987 Ensign).

Some interesting quotes from the article:

It should be noted, however, that no temple ordinances are performed in behalf of a stillborn child. Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, quoting President Brigham Young, wrote that “‘they are all right,’ … and nothing in the way of sealings or ordinances need be done for them.” (Bruce R. McConkie, comp., Doctrines of Salvation, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1955, 2:281.)

The question of whether stillborn children will be resurrected and belong to their parents in the hereafter is really the crux of the matter. This question is, as yet, impossible to answer with certainty. Elder Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that “there is no information given by revelation in regard to the status of stillborn children. However, I will express my personal opinion that we should have hope that these little ones will receive a resurrection and then belong to us.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:280.) He said nothing about miscarried children.

One issue involved is whether an unborn child in the mother’s womb is a living soul. The answer to that question may depend in part on the answer to another question—When does the spirit enter the body? On this second question some Church leaders have made comments. President Brigham Young said he believed that “when the mother feels life come to her infant it is the spirit entering the body.” (Journal of Discourses, 17:143.)

I hope this helps and/or positively adds to the discussion.

[TheKitsuneFox]

I have a question: I f a spirit is inside a baby when it's miscarried, does the that spirit get to try again (meaning that, since it never really got the chance to actually live and progress, doe it get to inhabit another body)?

[Vort]

I have a question: I f a spirit is inside a baby when it's miscarried, does the that spirit get to try again (meaning that, since it never really got the chance to actually live and progress, doe it get to inhabit another body)?

We have been given no firm revelatory insight into that matter.

An interesting and pertinent historical note: The term "stillborn", which we take to mean "dead at birth", was used in previous generations to describe an infant that was either born dead or died shortly after birth. Note that we do not do temple work, including sealing to parents, for children whom the records report as "stillborn", by whatever definition of "stillborn" the parents or society happened to use.

The mechanics and specifics of what constitutes "ensoulment" and how all the rules work have not been publicly revealed. My best advice, I suppose, is: Don't worry about it. (Which may not be good advice to someone dealing with a loss.)

[Echo2002]

The only official doctrine I've heard on the matter is the spirit joins the body while in the womb. It hasn't been determined when exactly that happens.

[Seminarysnoozer]

We have been given no firm revelatory insight into that matter.

An interesting and pertinent historical note: The term "stillborn", which we take to mean "dead at birth", was used in previous generations to describe an infant that was either born dead or died shortly after birth. Note that we do not do temple work, including sealing to parents, for children whom the records report as "stillborn", by whatever definition of "stillborn" the parents or society happened to use.

The mechanics and specifics of what constitutes "ensoulment" and how all the rules work have not been publicly revealed. My best advice, I suppose, is: Don't worry about it. (Which may not be good advice to someone dealing with a loss.)

I thought we have received some revelation on that matter. Do we not believe that once a person dies, separation of spirit from body, that that will never happen again? This is assuming the spirit has entered the body, which may be the thing you are saying we do not have firm revelatory insight into. The question that was asked though was "If a spirit is inside a baby when it is miscarried ..."

[MarginOfError]

I thought we have received some revelation on that matter. Do we not believe that once a person dies, separation of spirit from body, that that will never happen again? This is assuming the spirit has entered the body, which may be the thing you are saying we do not have firm revelatory insight into. The question that was asked though was "If a spirit is inside a baby when it is miscarried ..."

I'm not willing to commit to the idea that once a spirit enters a fetus the merging of the two is complete, final, and irreversible. I suppose it's also plausible that the tethering of spirit to body is a lot less static during pregnancy, and one could hypothesize that miscarriages are a result of a spirit rejecting the formations in the developing body (I don't support this hypothesis).

Anyway, you could add complexity to the issues by asking when does the spirit become permanently joined with the body. That's very difficult to answer. On the issue of ensoulment (or quickening, as it was called by Brigham Young), some women report feeling it, many women don't. With no definitive revelation on when it happens, the variability of response from women on the experience makes it impossible to reliably pinpoint a time frame using any methods available to us.

For this reason, I agree with Vort's advice (in principle) to not worry about it. But because of the grief and anguish people feel for their loss, I'm willing to look the other way when they formulate hypotheses that help them cope.