Loaning a temple recommend?

[circusboy01]

Half my family (My Dad's side) is Catholic. This includes 1 priest, a few nuns, and my Grandmother (long list here, that ill skip).

- In their church ALL churches and cathedrals are open to the public. Some, if not most, 24 hours (although sleeping there is discouraged). Only the BUSINESS areas & libraries (& some private residences are off limits without a *white collar* (key point in a minute). IF its holy ground, its 'public'. THIS INCLUDES the Vatican in Rome, which sees millions of tourists every year (only a small percentage catholic themselves).

- HOWEVER

~ Many places have a 'number' limit, are set by appointment, or have limited hours. These places require a pass or reservation of some kind. Whose name they are under is of minimal importance. My grandmother would order hundreds of passes for friends and family. They all had her name on them (which acted as a backstage pass in some ways, either her & the cardinal's name on an actual pass instead of a 'ticketmaster' or 'generic' pass... The ones she handed out had 'clout & authority' of 'sponsorship' (huge huge huge in the Catholic Church) attached to them.

~ I can't underscore enough the concept of sponsorship.

((I'm sure this is what Catholic friend thought of the Temple Recommend... That it was a very special 'pass', in the name of a member of good standing vouchsafing her.))

~ Furthermore: All the 'public' needs to get into a usually off limits (or number of visitors, or time limited) area is to be accompanied by a priest. Priests, as Im sure most are aware... Are relatively rare in Catholicism. There are only 40 thousand priests... And over 1 billion Catholics. (Anyone care to do the math on that? versus roughly half of all LDS members hold the Priesthood?.) Having a priest escort you anywhere, is -anywhere but Rome- like having a police escort. Or one of the Quorum saying 'Follow me.' They're not going to lead you astray.

= Add the two together, and MsCatholic not only has a document with the name of an assumed 'Sponsor' on it, but is in the presence of SEVERAL priests.

Before converting? I wouldn't have thought twice, except to be DEEPLY honored that I was being sponsored into a limited access area, about using another person's temple recommend.

Because I wouldn't have understood what it meant.

_____

There's also a long history of secrecy & sneaking in the Catholic Church. The Jesuits, The Reformation. There's a culture of 'Shhhhh!' that is NOT seen as lying NOR misrepresenting herself. It's actually seen as showing respect for traditions by composting yourself with decorum and not being noticed. In fact, that's a test to pass in C, in certain places: Can uou're behave correctly and solemnly enough that no one questions you? It's considered shameful to be 'caught' doing the wrong thing. So 'Shhh! Don't cause a scene!!' (From childhood, on. It's deeply ingrained.

Now.. I could be wrong, and the OPs former-friends told her exactly the sacrilege and defilement of a holy place that would be committed to get her in (doubt it!), and made sure she understood she was impersonating the person whose Name was on the recommend... Not being honored by being sponsored by, nor gifted with a pass.

I just doubt it.

(Son calling, edit later!)

Thank you for explaining how things work in the Catholic church. But. What does that have to do with the way things work in the LDS church? Brother Ray

[JudoMinja]

Thank you for explaining how things work in the Catholic church. But. What does that have to do with the way things work in the LDS church? Brother Ray

I believe BadWolf's post was perfectly applicable in giving us insight into the background of the person loaned the recommend. Uninformed of the differences between Catholic "passes" and LDS recommends, she would have seen nothing abnormal about it at all and would have had no idea she was doing something wrong. The responsibility lies solely on the head of the person who did the loaning.

[circusboy01]

As for the number of people in the sealing room knowing this woman was not only not a temple recommend-holder, but actually not even LDS, I really don't know. I will say it's quite possible that only the immediate family was aware of this as Ms. Catholic is from the other side of the country.

If they did not recognize her. They could have thought she was from another Ward or Stake. Brother Ray

[circusboy01]

Closer to the former, I'm afraid. Maybe not quite as prideful, but I will quote "the temple did not burn down".

If they said to you "the temple did not burn down" Then. You know they knew it was wrong. Brother Ray

[Vort]

Update: Mentioned the situation to Bishop (the many bishops I happen to work with also approved of this), will let it go where it will.

Other update: I actually talked to someone involved, not in this particular case, but in a very similar case that occurred some years ago.

Extremely sad story.

Very nice lady, sweet as can be, told me her story (and without prompting from me, it was like someone sensed I needed perspective on this). She had always thought of herself as a humble and righteous LDS member. Son was getting married in the temple. Woman had a best friend-since-childhood whom she wanted at this sealing. Best friend was NOT LDS. Woman and Friend talked it over and over and managed to convince themselves that borrowing someone else's temple recommend for Friend wasn't so bad as it was just witnessing a sealing, not an endowment or actually participating in anything (Woman admitted how very wrong she had been thinking). Son got wind of this, told Woman straight out he didn't want Friend at the sealing. Huge fight ensued, Woman failing to see Son's point about the recommend, integrity, and temple covenants, Son failing to appreciate Woman wanting her best friend to share in this joyous time with her. Son told Woman flat-out Friend was not invited. Woman, furious at Son, figured by the time the sealing was in progress, it would be too late.

...Son and Son's Bride changed the sealing time without telling Woman and also informed the temple of what was being plotted. Woman missed Son's sealing.

Very sad, indeed. Glad to hear the woman recognizes how wrong she was. I hope she expressed that sorrow to her son and daughter-in-law and set things straight between them.

[circusboy01]

I believe BadWolf's post was perfectly applicable in giving us insight into the background of the person loaned the recommend. Uninformed of the differences between Catholic "passes" and LDS recommends, she would have seen nothing abnormal about it at all and would have had no idea she was doing something wrong. The responsibility lies solely on the head of the person who did the loaning.

I do agree the person loaning the recommend should hold lions share of the blame. But. (please see my post #99) Brother Ray

[Backroads]

Very sad, indeed. Glad to hear the woman recognizes how wrong she was. I hope she expressed that sorrow to her son and daughter-in-law and set things straight between them.

From what she told me, everything is hunky-dory in the family now, which is wonderful. She admits Son did what he had to do, she did lose her temple recommend for a short time.