My husband drank a cup of coffee..now what?

[specka]

Hello all, I am new here and have lurked around for a while. I did introduce myself back in the introductions forum. Anyway I'll get straight to my little dilemma: my husband is a convert (who has made some transgression in his past but has repented--so yes, we are sealed) I am one of those born and bred members who sometimes lack a certain perspective in sticky situations (I hope that made sense). We are pretty active in the church. My husband recently left for a business trip for a few weeks. Apparently it was incredibly boring and fearing he would fall asleep in front of his peers and supervisors drank "a couple cups of coffee." He didn't tell me this until a few days after he got home as he felt it wasn't a big deal. In fact he only told me he did it as a side note to something else we were talking about. Anyways, I kind of stopped him and told him he should go see the bishop. He kindly disagreed as he felt that he didn't have a continuous problem drinking coffee and it was a minor slip-up. After talking to him about this, I finally thought he saw my point of seeing the bishop, even if it was a minor transgression in all reality.

Now fast forward to today, it's Sunday and he takes the sacrament and acts normal and everything. I just shrugged it off as he gets upset if I bring it up to him. He says he feels "judged" each time I bring it up--which I can honestly see his point so I try to just trust that he will take care of it. He never saw the bishop about it today so I just tried my best to ignore it.

Later in the day my husband was getting ready for work (he works Sunday nights) and I said, "hey we should try and go to the temple for a date night next month or something" To which he said, "why not this Friday?" I said, "oh, so you got that 'thing' taken care of?" and he says, "what thing, the coffee thing?" I was thinking, duh what else would I be talking about?

We got into a little emotional argument about how he doesn't want to be completely open about things anymore because he is afraid of my reaction to them. He says he feels judged by me (even though he acknowledged that I am not doing this on purpose). I do feel horrible that I even brought the coffee thing up at all, because it is his freaking birthday for crying out loud. Am I being naggy about this? I guess I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to say or do at this point.

BTW he did say before he left for work that he would like me to find out the bishop's meeting schedule for this week and text it to him; but he gives off the impression that he is only doing it for me so I will stop bugging him about it. He didn't specifically say that but I know he wouldn't go if I hadn't have told him to do it.

While yes, I feel like he should go to the bishop about this minor transgression; I have to admit it is partly because I would feel uncomfortable being with him in the temple knowing he broke the WoW even if it was just once. Honestly the thing that bothers me the most isn't even the coffee issue; it's the fact that he says he feels uncomfortable telling me his past mistakes for fear of how I'll react. I'm not sure how to win his trust back I guess.

P.S. Please be completely honest in your opinions. I won't get offended. I really wonder if I am in the right sometimes and wish someone would just flat out tell me. Thanks

[bytor2112]

JMO....doesn't really rise to the level of seeing the Bishop.

[JudoMinja]

Honestly, it sounds to me like you are overreacting about this. While your husband should probably make certain he is truly repentant about drinking the coffee and not having a "sin now, repent later" attitude, a "one-time" thing for something minor like this isn't really something he needs to see the bishop over. Partaking of the sacrament was enough to set him right again.

If we had to see the bishop for every little thing to be considered clean enough to go to the temple, the bishop would never get anything else done. He'd be meeting with people for "confessions" WAY too much.

Think about it in comparison to any of the little things you may have slipped up on during the week. Do you feel like you need to go talk to your bishop about a white lie, or failing to say a morning prayer or read your scriptures, or watching a movie or making a purchase on Sunday, or not having Family Home Evening, or any other small matter that you'd need to repent of before you feel comfortable going to the temple? No. That is what the sacrament is for.

As for how to regain your husband's trust- you could try trusting him to decide for himself if he needs to see the bishop instead of telling him to do so. Any time a spouse is telling the other what they should do, they are overstepping their bounds. Even if you'd been right in this situation- like say it had been something more serious like looking at porn that he would have had to see the bishop about- if you want your husband to trust you and share things openly with you, you should share your opinion with him but leave the final decision up to him. It's his repentance at stake, and he needs to make decisions for himself, not have you making those decisions for him.

[specka]

JudoMinja thanks for your honest response. That's exactly what I was going for. I see your point. I guess I was just thinking in terms of if it's a temple recommend question than it is something he should see the bishop about. Ya know?

I told him I would like him to see the bishop but I didn't want him to go for me, but for himself. I made that clear to him several times. I will admit that I should have just let it go after he told me the first time. And I apologized to him for that.

[Chrissy3818]

We got into a little emotional argument about how he doesn't want to be completely open about things anymore because he is afraid of my reaction to them. He says he feels judged by me (even though he acknowledged that I am not doing this on purpose). I do feel horrible that I even brought the coffee thing up at all, because it is his freaking birthday for crying out loud. Am I being naggy about this? I guess I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to say or do at this point.

I can understand where he comes from and honestly drinking coffee yes is a commandment not too, but is not a serious commandment. The reason we're not allowed to drink it is because it's addicting (which you probably know).

Honestly if he's repented with God he doesn't have to go through talking to the bishop (unless God tells him (not you) that he needs to speak to the bishop.

Just be loving don't push him. Pushing him is like judging in a way. when you tell someone did you meet with the bishop (from a personal experience) it feels like (to them) you are judging them. Don't bring it up, be open to things, be loving and understanding. Go to the temple with him. If he's not meant to he will feel it in his gut without being told he's not suppose to (he will feel guilty) if he's already repented he will feel happy or something.

If you're worried about being judgmental (I do this also) you can always ask god in your daily prayer to help you not be judgmental.

[JudoMinja]

No problem specka, and I'm glad I didn't come across too harsh to you.

I definitely understand the line of thinking about it being a temple recommend question, but I think that even with those there are things that are small that we all struggle with from time to time that we don't really need to go to the bishop about.

For example: The first couple questions are about our faith and belief in God, Jesus Christ, the church, and the prophets. Yet don't we all sometimes struggle with our faith? Should we have to see the bishop when we're going through a time we feel we can't answer "yes" about are faith?

What about the honesty in our dealings with our fellow men? I know we all sometimes have areas where we are dishonest in some way. We do what we can to make it right, strive to do better, and move on. But don't need to see the bishop about it.

So- instead of relying on the temple recommend questions as a basis for whether something requires seeing the bishop or not, it would be better to rely on this:

"Serious sins, such as sexual transgression or use of pornography, need to be confessed to your bishop." (For the Strength of Youth, Repentance)

We go to the bishop when it is something we need help with- a serious sin. If your husband had a coffee drinking habit and/or addiction, that might be serious enough to need to see the bishop.

[specka]

I guess I am kind of wondering now: What do you go to the bishop about anyway? I sometimes wonder where the line is in this respect. Not really for my husband but for me to understand. While I've been a member my whole life I should include that my parents never really taught me or my siblings a lot of principles (like I didn't know that people still go to Stake/ward conference and I didn't know exactly how to pay tithing--that sort of thing)

[JudoMinja]

Well, as far as I know, that quote from the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet is the only direct advice we've been given as for when to see the bishop. People typically see their bishop for sexual sins, addictions, abuse, and crimes.

Then there's the standard "when in doubt, see your bishop". This tends to apply to someone who's committed a sin like viewing pornography and has been repentant but feels uncertain about whether they should see the bishop or not. That uncertainty sometimes comes as a prompting from the spirit to either seek his help or just feel the relief of knowing they've done everything they need to do and are good to go.

[specka]

Just be loving don't push him. Pushing him is like judging in a way. when you tell someone did you meet with the bishop (from a personal experience) it feels like (to them) you are judging them. Don't bring it up, be open to things, be loving and understanding. Go to the temple with him. If he's not meant to he will feel it in his gut without being told he's not suppose to (he will feel guilty) if he's already repented he will feel happy or something.

If you're worried about being judgmental (I do this also) you can always ask god in your daily prayer to help you not be judgmental.

Thanks Chrissy. I should say that I prayed pretty fervently about this whole silly thing a few hours ago. And the more I think about it, the sillier it seems; if that makes any sense..? Like I said I have a pretty naive understanding of many principles while I do have a solid testimony. Certain things are just confusing to me for some reason (perhaps a lack of really being taught like I said earlier). I'm starting to think I should just trust my husband a little bit more. There was a time earlier in our marriage when he thought that tithing meant "whatever we want to pay" and I finally broke down and had to tell him I felt strongly we should pay the 10% (we now pay). I know this all might sound very trite to many of you LOL-- I can respect that. My husband and I come from two COMPLETELY different backgrounds and while this usually adds a richness to our marriage, sometimes can cause me to actually lose sleep as crazy as it sounds.

[JudoMinja]

Thanks Chrissy. I should say that I prayed pretty fervently about this whole silly thing a few hours ago. And the more I think about it, the sillier it seems; if that makes any sense..? Like I said I have a pretty naive understanding of many principles while I do have a solid testimony. Certain things are just confusing to me for some reason (perhaps a lack of really being taught like I said earlier). I'm starting to think I should just trust my husband a little bit more. There was a time earlier in our marriage when he thought that tithing meant "whatever we want to pay" and I finally broke down and had to tell him I felt strongly we should pay the 10% (we now pay). I know this all might sound very trite to many of you LOL-- I can respect that. My husband and I come from two COMPLETELY different backgrounds and while this usually adds a richness to our marriage, sometimes can cause me to actually lose sleep as crazy as it sounds.

Sounds like your both learning! Sometimes you'll be right, sometimes he'll be right, and sometimes you'll both be wrong. Lol.

Try not to stress over things when you aren't agreeing on something. Don't let it lead to arguments. When you're uncertain, ask other members, research what the prophets have said, delve into your scriptures, talk to your home/visiting teachers, etc. After you've done your research and studied it out together, come to your conclusions- and if you still disagree, that's okay!

There are some areas of the gospel that are pretty cut-and-dry and have clear answers, while there are other areas that are open to interpretation and the two of you won't always interpret it the same way. So it's okay to let it go and move on.

[prisonchaplain]

Another thought...The husband, being a convert, might be truly repentant of his coffee-drinking slip up. However, he may also have some natural pride, and not want to have to humble himself before you or a bishop when he has such mishaps. Most converts probably do not come from a tradition where confessing to a bishop is normal. Additionally, I perceive that many LDS are obedient to the coffee ban only because of the WoW, not because of perceived health problems or 'drug addiction.'

Bottom-line: Your hubby may have been truly repentant, but then got defensive when he was challenged, and truly irritated when told he should see the bishop. On the other hand, as a convert, he probably figured you might be right, but still saw the whole thing as "making a mountain out of a mole hill."

--thoughts from the outside

Edited October 22, 2012 by prisonchaplain

[jayanna]

My hubby's advice, I asked him what he thought, he said that if this isn't the first time, or if it happens again, yes he should speak with the bishop. Me, I would speak with him the first time. I did used to drink coffee (very briefly before getting baptized), and the smell is very tempting for me. Although, for me, it is a health issue as it makes my heart arrhythmia worse.

I do have to say, that while yes you may feel like a bit of a nag, this is a classic knee jerk response from a man who is feeling a little guilty.

If has only been the one time, not a huge deal, makes the mistake again and it is becoming a big deal. Why? Is it really worth a recommend for a beverage? Doesn't seem like an even trade to me.

Maybe the reason he was so tired should be addressed so that he is not so apt to be tempted to use coffe as a tool to achieve an end. Don't let him blame you, that is a cheap cop out. It is way too easy to blame the little wife at home

You are his real friend, and real friends tell you when you are screwing up. If I have something stuck on my butt, or lipstick on my teeth, or if I'm singing off key, my friends better let me know...I'm just sayin.

[Blocky]

We all sin. Some sins though are very easy for some of us to advoid. For most of us, not drinking a cup of coffee is very easy, it's not tempting and if we did do it, it would be an act of pure rebellion and go against the strong testimony we have of the world of wisdom. Is that how your view the WOW? I'm guessing to your husband, the coffee was a small thing (like how perhaps buying something on Sunday is to a lot of people) and not an act of pure rebellion and conscience rebellion.

The idea that your husband feels judged by you is very concerning though. Lets say he did do something that was a pretty big deal to both of you, and you acted like this, on his back about it, telling him he should take the sacrament or go to the temple and that you weren't comfortable with them and you felt scared about your eternal marriage. I doubt this is the partnership you want to have with your spouse.

Voice your concern to your spouse. Once you do, he'll know how you feel, no need to nag on the subject. When you see a positive behavior that they display in regards to the subject, praise it and let them know how much you appreciate it.

I've been through much more than coffee issues with my husband. At first, I freaked out and it was tough, but I noticed that it let me view minor details in a more proper light. If you're foot gets cut off, you won't care about a scratch on your finger.

This is but a scratch. Offer your husband a bandaid, but don't walk around after him lecturing about how mad you are that he made you be scared by hurting himself.

[specka]

Well I felt I must update: so my husband called me during his break. I told him I was sorry and that I realize how he feels and that I hope that we can still be open about things with each other without fear of overreaction (since that was really my biggest worry). He said sorry too and I told him I wanted him to do what he felt was right and I won't bring up the coffee thing ever again. He basically said, "well we already decided how I will deal with it, I'll go to the bishop" I still feel like he is doing it for me and not himself--and frankly after discussing it on here I guess I don't really feel strongly about it anymore.

Anywho just wanted to say thanks for everyone's responses. After praying about it I realized that yes, I was being judgmental and the Lord was kind of letting me know how great my husband actually is, and I need to believe and trust in him more. :)

[specka]

My hubby's advice, I asked him what he thought, he said that if this isn't the first time, or if it happens again, yes he should speak with the bishop. Me, I would speak with him the first time. I did used to drink coffee (very briefly before getting baptized), and the smell is very tempting for me. Although, for me, it is a health issue as it makes my heart arrhythmia worse.

I do have to say, that while yes you may feel like a bit of a nag, this is a classic knee jerk response from a man who is feeling a little guilty.

If has only been the one time, not a huge deal, makes the mistake again and it is becoming a big deal. Why? Is it really worth a recommend for a beverage? Doesn't seem like an even trade to me.

Maybe the reason he was so tired should be addressed so that he is not so apt to be tempted to use coffe as a tool to achieve an end. Don't let him blame you, that is a cheap cop out. It is way too easy to blame the little wife at home

I don't think he was ever blaming me. In fact, like I said earlier, he only mentioned the fact that he drank coffee as a side note to something else. I will say that I wish he had told me just to tell me instead of as a "side note" but I think he was genuinely afraid of my reaction. My husband has done everything under the sun in terms of breaking the WoW..but this was either before he was baptized or when he was inactive. In the 3 years we have married and the 1 1/2 of dating before, I have never known him to do something like this.

When I talked to him earlier he seemed pretty set that he will talk to the bishop..but still I hope it is not for me.

[jayanna]

No, I don't mean blame you for drinking the coffee, I mean blame you for going to the bishop. Especially if the bishop says something your hubby does not want to hear. If he didn't feel a little bit guilty, he wouldn't go at all.

I asked my bishop once what I should do if someone I was visit teaching does something while I am visiting, something that was really bad. Should I react or simply make an excuse and leave, or make and excuse and stay and deliver the message anyway? He said to react. Let her see it on your face, yuck, that is not okay to do to me. If you don't react at all, it may appear as though you are condoning the behavior. (no it was not smoking or a wow issue at all) Once she stops, and if she wants me to visit she will, then teach her the lesson.

Sometimes, someone can forget that something is a sin, and it takes another person to remind them of how bad it is. If they are surrounded by people who think the behavior is okay, they don't have a light to bring them out of it, luckily your husband has you. You are not nagging him, you are edifying him. You have reminded him that he has done something wrong and that he has help that can be there for him if he feels he needs it. You have reminded him that you love him. You have done exactly what you should do, and you should not feel guilty no matter the consequences of his actions.

Don't let that "N" word getting thrown out there distract from the real issue. Nobody likes to hear the truth. The trick is to let them know that you are doing it out of love, not a 'better than thou' thing.

[MattS]

Who cares if he had a coffee, it isn't the end of the world!

Instead of being a Pharisee, perhaps you should focus on your own salvation?

[MarginOfError]

I think a kinder way of delivering MattS's message would be to say that if drinking a cup of coffee (or two) during a meeting is the biggest conflict you and your husband are having in your marriage, you're probably going to be just fine.

[MattS]

I believe simply being a good example is what is needed, people will eventually catch on and will become part of the community. For example, if someone walks into church all casual, with flip flops, shorts and a t-shirt, it is best to treat them exactly the same as everyone else. They will eventually want to become "part" of the community, and will dress more modestly.

Same with coffee drinking, eventually they'll accept it isn't something which is done, and hopefully will give it up. If they don't, it isn't a massive sin, in fact it isn't something which will exclude them from the sacrament.

[RMGuy]

Seciont 89

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

I agree with the above.

-RM

[mnn727]

Tell him next time to have a Coke or Pepsi and leave it at that.

[dahlia]

OP - I am a convert of about a year and a half. I have my endowments. I am in my late 50's, so I had a lot of life experience before the Church got me. I think the bishop has more to deal with than this. Also, do you trust your husband or not? He said it was a momentary slip up - if you are born Mormon you can't know how ingrained some behaviors are - it is easy to look up and you are drinking tea or coffee before you even realize it. Now, drinking liquor, or even smoking, would be a different thing for me, but that's just where I'm coming from.

So, at a business meeting he had some coffee. How terrible! And he even told you about it, yet you want to jump down his throat (hmm...) when he had been honest with you.

It would be wonderful if we were all perfect, but we're not. All we can do is repent and move on, and for this particular transgression, I don't think the bishop need be involved. If you don't get off his back, you may find him less willing to share things with you, even little things, for fear you will find some fault to hang over his head.

[j0rshua87]

Not necessary for the Bishop to get involved.

Slip ups happen.....as lifelong members we feel those slip ups are HUGE (because most of those things we've never done) But if it honestly was a slip up, show him you trust him and forget it. Think to yourself what sins you struggle with? It'd be hard if your spouse felt you weren't temple worthy just for little things like that.

It's all a process and where his heart is at. But I think you're wayyyyyy over stressing the issue and dangerously putting a wedge in your marriage that you don't want.

[Echo2002]

If he develops a habit that's one thing, but having a couple of cups a coffee doesn't require you to go to the Bishop, in my opinion.

[Maya]

Itroduce to him Barleycup. I think that is pretty good and tasts pretty close to coffe (I am a convert, but coffe was not good for my ingestion, so I had no trouble leaving it) Btw I love Barleykop on isecream and in youghurt with suger.

All we can do is to wait that they see the mistakes themselves.