Tithing


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Hey guys, it's been quite a while since I was last on here, but I wanted to ask a question about tithing.

First off, I am a convert to the church, and I have been taught that tithing is done in an act of faith, to sacrifice my material needs for the sake of the church as well as other reasons. It's the main reason that has kept me as a full tithe payer, and I have not doubted that... until now.

I am great in debt, and I have also learned from prophets and apostles to pay off the debt as early as possible. At the same time, I am also in college, trying to save money to pay for my tuition. In other words, rarely any of my money is going for "material gain.." I don't intend to buy a boat or anything, anytime soon. I am saving my money for the right reasons, yet I am still obligated to pay more than I can afford? Why contribute my 10% of my paycheck to the church that is already... who knows how rich? I want to be responsible with my money, but tithing first before paying anything else just doesn't fit right with that.

I am hoping a fellow LDS member can help elaborate on this for me, that I can understand the concept better, rather than paying in blind faith.

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Tough question and situation! I would say the most important part of paying tithing, perhaps, is to demonstrate to God we recognize all material blessings come to him, and by paying tithing, we develop a great reliance upon God to help us, rather than setting our hearts upon that which He has given us (material blessings).

At the same time, if I were you, I would pray to God and ask what He would have you do. If you feel the Holy Ghost direct you what to do and you do it, that is the best way. Ultimately you will have to find the answer - as a side example, I work as a freelancer, and at times with very busy project schedules I've worked on Sundays (I work from home). So technically I'm not following the letter of the law, yet I feel in certain cases it is justified by the bigger picture (making a living to support myself, etc).

As such, I would hesitate in giving you any course of action to follow. For myself, I certainly feel paying tithing is important, so I do it. But this is for the reasons I described above, and the fact I inwardly feel it's the right thing to do. But best for you to get your own spiritual guidance in this matter, I would say it could vary from situation to situation (I'm very hesitant to make 100% absolute statements such as "do this" or "don't do this" because everyone's situation is different, and as such, personal prayer and reliance upon the guidance of the Spirit become so important in making decisions).

P.S. If we remember in D & C tithing is actually a preparatory law to the law of consecration, in which all goods/money are shared equally among communities of the saints (this was attempted in the early days of the restoration but due to the people not ready to live it, was replaced by the law of tithing). The ultimate aim of tithing, I believe, is to keep us from setting our hearts upon our material goods, so we can eventually "have all things equal" like the Nephites did at times (no rich or poor among them).

Also, despite at times people saying "the Church doesn't need your money" etc, the fact is tithing serves a very practical purpose in supplying the funds to allow the Church needs to be met. Surely, if no tithing were paid, the Church could not function monetarily! So it serves a very real and practical purpose as well, which is funding the Church we take part in (building of meetinghouses, temples, etc.)

Edited by jb789
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But the Lord doesn't need the money.

Not in the sense that He needs it to run to the store or pay a mortgage.

But in order for His work to continue, for His houses (temples) to be built it does take money. That is where our tithing comes into play.

The temples are not for the church, they are dedicated as Houses of the Lord.

That is just one example.

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But the Lord doesn't need the money.

But we have no problem with the notion that The Lord "needs" a broken heart and a contrite spirit, or that He "needs" our time, talents, and labor. Why do we suddenly get so concerned about what the Lord "needs" when the topic turns to money (which, after all, is merely time and labor converted into a more fluid and readily exchangeable form)?

And "need" is subjective. I've never heard of a Mormon who was deprived of food, clothing, or shelter because of his insistence on paying tithing. I think that's kind of the point of tithing: we get outside of our little lives and become part of something that's bigger than us - not by lip service, but by bona fide sacrifice.

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Hey guys, it's been quite a while since I was last on here, but I wanted to ask a question about tithing.

First off, I am a convert to the church, and I have been taught that tithing is done in an act of faith, to sacrifice my material needs for the sake of the church as well as other reasons. It's the main reason that has kept me as a full tithe payer, and I have not doubted that... until now.

I am great in debt, and I have also learned from prophets and apostles to pay off the debt as early as possible. At the same time, I am also in college, trying to save money to pay for my tuition. In other words, rarely any of my money is going for "material gain.." I don't intend to buy a boat or anything, anytime soon. I am saving my money for the right reasons, yet I am still obligated to pay more than I can afford? Why contribute my 10% of my paycheck to the church that is already... who knows how rich? I want to be responsible with my money, but tithing first before paying anything else just doesn't fit right with that.

I am hoping a fellow LDS member can help elaborate on this for me, that I can understand the concept better, rather than paying in blind faith.

'Blind' faith is better than no faith. Since faith is acting without having a sure knowledge, in that sense all faith will be called 'blind' by those who don't exercise it.

Tithing is a commandment, given us for our betterment. That is the best and ultimately only reason to pay it. You are better off paying tithing than not paying it, regardless of whether it means you have to live tighter than you otherwise would.

God said, "Bring all the tithes into the storehouse." He did not say, "Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, unless money is tight and you're not trying to buy a boat, in which case it's okay not to bring any tithes into the storehouse." Remember the widow's mite.

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If this is Gods Church and if it has living Prophets then tithing is a Covenant we have made with God.

If its just a place to spend 3 hours on Sundays instead of sleeping in or watching football, then tithing is just another way to get rid of your money.

You choose.

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Paying tithing is so that God can bless you and others. In his great wisdom, God provides both a perfectly just and merciful way for us to receive blessings from him for our benefit.

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated. (D&C 130:20-21)

When we are obedient to God's laws, it enables him to bless us in his great mercy. In the case of tithing, if you will act in faith, and make your tithes and offerings regardless of your circumstances, God will open the "windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." (Malachi 3:10). That's the promise, the rest is up to you.

Regards,

Vanhin

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You first have to work under the assumption that God is smarter than you. Second you have to work under the assumption that he has your best interest. Another term for that is faith.

Everybody struggles with these things. I doubt Abraham was whistling Dixie on the way to sacrifice Isaac.

But just as Abraham had a happy ending, so does the tithing payer.

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First off, I am a convert to the church,

Excellent.

and I have been taught that tithing is done in an act of faith, to sacrifice my material needs for the sake of the church as well as other reasons. It's the main reason that has kept me as a full tithe payer, and I have not doubted that... until now.

Tithing definitely is an act of faith. It is also an act of hope, and charity. Faith is combined with our hope that God will honor his promise to us when we keep his commandments. Paying tithing is an act of charity, because we pay our tithing out of our love for God.

I don't believe tithing is actually a result of sacrificing our "needs", as it is a sacrifice of wants. We pay tithing with the faith and hope that we will have sufficient for our needs, while doing our part to make sure we have sufficient for our needs. Word of advice, be cautious in what you define as a need.

I believe you have misunderstood this doctrine, and as such it has caused you not to be a full-tithe payer. When we come to understand the doctrine, it is much easier to pay.

I am great in debt, and I have also learned from prophets and apostles to pay off the debt as early as possible.

I would read

“One for the Money: Guide to Family Finance,”

Why contribute my 10% of my paycheck to the church that is already... who knows how rich? I want to be responsible with my money, but tithing first before paying anything else just doesn't fit right with that.

The Church didn't have the money it does now until the members actually started paying tithing.

We contribute our 10%, as has already been shared, because we have faith, hope, and charity. Nothing more, nothing less. We contribute because we believe that God loves us and seeks our best interest. Imagine if every member of the Church decided to stop paying tithing because life is hard. This would result in about 90% of members not paying tithing.

I understand how difficult it is to pay tithing. I have experienced the moments where a person thinks, "I can pay tithing, or I can pay my utilities bill. I recognize I can't pay both."

Thus faith, hope and charity are tested. It is not until we obey do we realize the blessing comes. It may not be a boat, a new race car, a new house, but the blessing does come.

Edited by Anddenex
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Hey guys, it's been quite a while since I was last on here, but I wanted to ask a question about tithing.

First off, I am a convert to the church, and I have been taught that tithing is done in an act of faith, to sacrifice my material needs for the sake of the church as well as other reasons. It's the main reason that has kept me as a full tithe payer, and I have not doubted that... until now.

I am great in debt, and I have also learned from prophets and apostles to pay off the debt as early as possible. At the same time, I am also in college, trying to save money to pay for my tuition. In other words, rarely any of my money is going for "material gain.." I don't intend to buy a boat or anything, anytime soon. I am saving my money for the right reasons, yet I am still obligated to pay more than I can afford? Why contribute my 10% of my paycheck to the church that is already... who knows how rich? I want to be responsible with my money, but tithing first before paying anything else just doesn't fit right with that.

I am hoping a fellow LDS member can help elaborate on this for me, that I can understand the concept better, rather than paying in blind faith.

I think other posters have done a great job of explaining tithing, so I won't go there. But I do suggest you read their posts and become more familiar with the true concept of tithing.

I am also a convert. I am deeply in debt due to all the circumstances surrounding my late husband's illness and death. Just last week, I was in a car accident and was injured and my car was destroyed. More potential debt, depending on what the insurers decided to do. And I sure as heck don't have the funds to replace my car or take on car payments.

On paper, I can't "afford" tithing. It is not a matter of spending less here to pay more there. The money is simply not there. I simply do not make enough income to meet my bills. EVERY month.

Yet, I pay my tithing every month. And every month, I am able to meet my obligations.

It doesn't make sense to you, does it?

It's not about whether or if we can "afford" to pay tithing. It's a covenant we made when we were baptized and joined the church.

I realized at my first tithing settlement, that I didn't feel tithing to be a burden, I felt it to be a privilege.

I do pay in "blind faith". That's actually what it is about.

And the non-monetary blessings are the ones I enjoy most.

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D&C 119:4 states:

4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

On March 19, 1970, the First Presidency sent the following letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question, “What is a proper tithe?”

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.” (“I Have a Question,” Ensign, Apr. 1974, 17)

This doesn't mean that we pay all of our bills and then whatever we have left over we pay 10%. We are to pay 10% of our income.

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Also from lds.org

What is tithing?

The Bible indicates that God’s people followed the law of tithing anciently; through modern prophets, God restored this law once again to bless His children. To fulfill this commandment, Church members give one-tenth of their income to the Lord through His Church. These funds are used to build up the Church and further the work of the Lord throughout the world.

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D&C 119:4 states:

4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

On March 19, 1970, the First Presidency sent the following letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question, “What is a proper tithe?”

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.” (“I Have a Question,” Ensign, Apr. 1974, 17)

This doesn't mean that we pay all of our bills and then whatever we have left over we pay 10%. We are to pay 10% of our income.

Indeed. There's language in that section of the Doctrine and Covenants about "surplus", but that only applies to the first offering made by people coming under the covenant of tithing for the first time (and the Church, for better or for worse, doesn't currently require that new converts do this).

The scripture that applies to us is "interest". We are free to interpret whether that means gross income or net income and how that applies to self-employed, business owners, etc - but the baseline is most certainly "income", not "surplus".

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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A few posters in trying to further define tithing, go further than the brethern do. That's a dangerous thing to do.

Again, what is official is the below:

On March 19, 1970, the First Presidency sent the following letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question, “What is a proper tithe?”

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.

Emphasis is mine. Edited by mnn727
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Paying your tithing is not all about the money. It's a matter of obedience. We cannot pick and choose what commandment we will obey and which we won't or think we can't. We must be obedient to all of the Lord's commanments.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I am a single parent who raised my daughter by myself with no help from anyone. I worked 2 jobs and went back to school. Money was tight. I found that paying my tithing was one of the easiest things for me. I don't know why. I struggle more about being consistent in saying my prayers and reading my scriptures.

My daughter is now 21 and on her own. Did we go without things. Yes. But "things" being the operative word. I feel and testify that because I paid a full tithe I am blessed now and was blessed then for my being obedient to that law. It was a struggle, but I never felt any time that I should not pay my tithing.

Good luck.

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I would like to give one, if that's okay. An investigator asked me about this once, saying that he did not understand why we should have to pay money to attend the temple. I was given instruction from the Holy Spirit on how to explain it to him, and maybe it will help you as well.

The whole point of being baptized and keeping our commandments, the whole point of having the gospel is so that we can return to our Heavenly Father. The things that are asked of us here are preparing us to live with Him. Tithing is to help us prepare to live with Him. When we live in the Millenium and in the Heavenly Kingdoms we will not have money, we will not amass wealth, we will share all things in common. We will take all things that we have need of and no more, we will live the law of consecration. The Law of Tithing only asks for 10%. If we are not ready to give just 10% how can we possibly claim that we are ready to give our all?

The Lord is very merciful in only asking for 10% at this time, and in return He promises to meet 100% of our need, not just 10% of our need in return. That is a great investment, giving 10% and getting 100%. It doesn't matter where the money is going, it could go anywhere at all, or nowhere, the point is that you are getting ready for the kingdom where you will share and give all you can.

There are some members that give much more than 10%, because they give quite a bit of fast offering as well. Part of the fast is giving a fast offering, if you are missing that part, you are missing out on a great deal of blessings. The fast offering is used to help those who are unable to meet the financial needs of their family (for food, etc). I have been very fortunate in my past to have recieved help from the church when I was a single mother. It was only for a short time, but during that time I still paid my tithing. 100% of my and my children's needs were met while I gave 10% of my income. The monetary value (if you want to break it down to only monetary value) of what I received was much greater than the money I had to give. The comfort of knowing that my children and I would not go hungry and homeless was priceless. 10% was a great deal then, and is still a great deal now.

I am very thankful that the Lord has restored this system. It was the same in New Testament times.

Edited by jayanna
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I would like to give one, if that's okay. An investigator asked me about this once, saying that he did not understand why we should have to pay money to attend the temple. I was given instruction from the Holy Spirit on how to explain it to him, and maybe it will help you as well.

I would have looked at him very sincerely and said, "What are you talking about? You don't have to pay money to attend the temple." It never would have occurred to me to think of tithing money as "payment" for Church services.

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I know it took me a minute to figure out what he was talking about. I found out later that he was talking about a member who was not able to go to her daughter's sealing because she had not paid tithing.

When we go to the temple we make covenants to live the way the Lord would have us live in Heaven. In some cases they are greater expectations of how we live now. It would be wrong to ask and expect of her to live a much higher law, when she isn't ready to use the training wheels of 10%. Now is practice for later, that's all. No hate and exclusion, just taking steps toward a very great goal, that we can meet with our willingness to live as He asks us to, and the help of the Savior, Jesus Christ when we have reached stumbling blocks.

For anyone having trouble with this Law, please research it in your scriptures and pray about it. The Lord will met your needs, maybe not your wants, but He will meet your needs. He has the Bishop with a lot of resources to help you, but you have to take that leap of faith with your 10%. Afterward He will answer with 100%. He loves you and cares for you, and desires for you to return to Him.

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On paper, I can't "afford" tithing. It is not a matter of spending less here to pay more there. The money is simply not there. I simply do not make enough income to meet my bills. EVERY month.

Yet, I pay my tithing every month. And every month, I am able to meet my obligations.

It doesn't make sense to you, does it?

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind, if you don't make enough income to meet bills every month, yet by paying tithing (an additional expense) you find you are able to meet your bills/obligations, how does this come about? What is the source of additional income that allows you to meet your obligations?

This clarification might help the original forum poster understand how such a similar help might be of aid to them.

P.S. As a side note (I know this is a thread about tithing, but finances do come into play here), I think having a good understanding of our budget, our income/expenses, how to save, how to minimize expenses and as much as we're able to maximize income, is very helpful temporally. I'm just saying in my experience (and in speaking with my father, who has served in many callings and temporal-oriented ones as well such as building maintainence/clerk/etc), our financial well-being is just as much dependent upon our understanding of good finances/budgeting/saving/investing/etc as it is upon our payment of tithing. Kind of like the principle of the word of wisdom - if we merely abstain from coffee/drugs/etc, but don't eat healthy and exercise regularly, will will have poor health. Likewise, merely paying tithing, in my opinion, will not lead to financial well-being. Of course it's important to pay tithing, but if you are worried about making ends meet, being in debt, etc, then addressing the financial concerns with financial solutions is equally important. I have found that people who are financially sound, both in and out of the church, are those who practice good finances, constantly keep and follow a budget, and are very disciplined and aware of their finances and their appropriate usage. The practicality of this cannot be underestimated!

Edited by jb789
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Out of curiosity, if you don't mind, if you don't make enough income to meet bills every month, yet by paying tithing (an additional expense) you find you are able to meet your bills/obligations, how does this come about? What is the source of additional income that allows you to meet your obligations?

This clarification might help the original forum poster understand how such a similar help might be of aid to them.

P.S. As a side note (I know this is a thread about tithing, but finances do come into play here), I think having a good understanding of our budget, our income/expenses, how to save, how to minimize expenses and as much as we're able to maximize income, is very helpful temporally. I'm just saying in my experience (and in speaking with my father, who has served in many callings and temporal-oriented ones as well such as building maintainence/clerk/etc), our financial well-being is just as much dependent upon our understanding of good finances/budgeting/saving/investing/etc as it is upon our payment of tithing. Kind of like the principle of the word of wisdom - if we merely abstain from coffee/drugs/etc, but don't eat healthy and exercise regularly, will will have poor health. Likewise, merely paying tithing, in my opinion, will not lead to financial well-being. Of course it's important to pay tithing, but if you are worried about making ends meet, being in debt, etc, then addressing the financial concerns with financial solutions is equally important. I have found that people who are financially sound, both in and out of the church, are those who practice good finances, constantly keep and follow a budget, and are very disciplined and aware of their finances and their appropriate usage. The practicality of this cannot be underestimated!

Pretty judgmental to think that people who have debt are simply poor money managers. Life happens. Sometimes that comes with a hefty price tag that no one could be prepared for. It's not a matter of people being irresponsible and thinking God will magically supply them with money.

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