No Point...

[Guest]

I also wonder, and this just occurred to me, if you might be dealing with some depression. I'm having an awful time with it lately, and it makes it really hard for me to feel the Spirit or really anything positive at all. Personally I'm calling the doctor in the morning because I've been feeling this way too long, and too often. A couple of my friends have recently gotten help with their depression and they say it's made all the difference in the world.

[carlimac]

My son went to BYU with major questions. It did him a world of good to be surrounded by new friends and teachers and leaders who had enthusiasm for the gospel. bBt not everyone there had a testimony. In fact his own roomie wasn't even a member of the church. (He did join second semster which was a great thing. )

It sounds like you're being challenged- being hit on all sides with your family drifting away. Perhaps it's because you ARE trying to go to a church college and because the adversary knows your potential for doing good and being a positive influence on your younger brother as well as other family members. Don't let Satan snag you.

[carlimac]

I also wonder, and this just occurred to me, if you might be dealing with some depression. I'm having an awful time with it lately, and it makes it really hard for me to feel the Spirit or really anything positive at all. Personally I'm calling the doctor in the morning because I've been feeling this way too long, and too often. A couple of my friends have recently gotten help with their depression and they say it's made all the difference in the world.

I went through that, too. I talked to my stake president (who was a medical doctor) about it and he said that it's harder at times for people who suffer from depression and anxiety to feel the Spirit. Seems unfair to not feel it when you need it most. But there were some pretty strong breakthrough moments for me when I knew and felt just briefly but undeniably that the Lord loved and cared for me even though life stunk. That's all I needed to make it through the darkness.

Edited October 22, 2012 by carlimac

[Misshalfway]

First of all, it's ok to struggle with your testimony.

We don't talk about this a lot because everybody is afraid of it. We think doubt is a sign of weakness. But remember that there is opposition in ALL things. We need the opposition because it helps us to grow. OK? So be grateful for you doubt. Without the doubt, your faith would not develop into the strong thing it can be. Breath in a big sigh of relief on this and let yourself relax. God isn't afraid of our doubt. So why should we be? He helps us with it, yes. But he isn't afraid. He, above all, understands processes and he understands adversity. In fact He sent us here to experience it. His teaches "line upon line", right? And he uses obstacles to make us stronger. So.....you are doing exactly as God would wish. Sounds pretty awesome to me. Who cares if your testimony doesn't come like all the Ensign stories. (IMO...we do lots of disservice by all that whitewashing). If you can, imagine a loving God who is ok and supportive of your process. Imagine a God who isn't panicky and preachy like all of those well-meaning "testifying" humans. Instead see a Father and a friend that is SO invested in your progression that He allows struggle. He is SO wise that He knows when to stir the batter and when to let the cake bake. Get my meaning? And in these last days, I don't think He is building flimsy testimonies. I think He is building durable layered knowings inside of us. Knowledge yes, but wisdom too. So....relax. And let Him work in you. He must trust you a great deal.

Now....once you let yourself get ok with being in process and ok with no needing picture perfect outcomes today, you can get to the business of faith building. Maybe spend some time in Alma 32. We need to "give place" and then plant the seed. Then we need to nurture the seed to grow. Why do you just do that for a while? You say you don't like the lack of standards in the world. So....at least you know that you prefer living with higher standards. So...obey the WofW & LofC. Let the blessings of that discipline work in you. Listen to the insights that occur to you as you do. Those are the "line upon lines".

While you do that....start to believe in stuff. What I mean is "act as if". That means you act as if the Holy Ghost was real. You act as if the Atonement was real and that Jesus made a way for you and me to be clean from the blood and sins of this generation. And you "let that work in you". And just like all of us have to with our veggie gardens, allow yourself to wait in patience and gratitude. If you get a little insight here and a little there, be grateful for that. Don't "need" spiritual confirmation. Picture that you will get it at the right time and that you are just waiting with surety.

I think what I'm leading you to is walking in trust. Trust that God won't lead you astray. Trust the scriptures that God answers prayers. Trust that God will lead you with pillars of fire and smoke through the wilderness. Trust that He'll give you manna too. Yeah He does it in His own wise way and His own strange timing. But trust that He is leading you to the best things.

Sorry. But I'm going to testify now. I just came out of a four year battle with, and for, my current testimony. For me, I had a strong testimony in my youth and young adulthood. But God took it away from me for a time. I didn't believe in God for a time. I doubted every doctrine of the church. I doubted every part of the earthly church structure. I stopped going to church. I even tried to break the WofW. But all I could do was buy black tea and look at the box in my cupboard. (Not very impressive I know. I guess my faith was stronger than I thought. :) )

During this time, I was very afraid. I didn't tell very many people about my struggle. And I was right not too. Most rank and file mormon's can't handle this stuff. They have to judge, bless them. But I made some early decisions about my journey. I decided to trust God. Well, after I started to believe in Him again. And this was the best thing I ever did. He started to talk to me. He explained that he was reworking my testimony and that I needed, for His wise purpose, to understand what it was like to not have my testimony. He told me He would heal me, but that it would be painfully slow. And that He knew I would protest but that I needed to trust Him. I HAVE protested ALOT! Lot of long midnights of prayer and complaining. But also tear filled prayers filled with gratitude.

And now that much of the struggle is over for me, I wouldn't change my experience for anything!! I don't need whitewashed Ensign stories anymore. I don't need other's picture perfect tear-jerker stories to confirm my faith to me. God gave me something better. Well.....He isn't done yet. He is giving me something better.....and certainly broader.

So girlie.....you dig deep. You gather your strength to exercise faith. I have to believe that good things will come to you if you do.

Best.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Misshalfway
typos

[specka]

I also wonder, and this just occurred to me, if you might be dealing with some depression. I'm having an awful time with it lately, and it makes it really hard for me to feel the Spirit or really anything positive at all. Personally I'm calling the doctor in the morning because I've been feeling this way too long, and too often. A couple of my friends have recently gotten help with their depression and they say it's made all the difference in the world.

I second this. I have dealt with depression in the past and it clouded my judgement and in turn clouded the spirit in my life. It's as if my testimony was hidden, if that makes any sense.

Even if that isn't the reason for your current feelings having a loss of faith is normal for many people from time to time. So in this you are definitely not alone. It's hard to not question your own faith when your own mother and brother have seemingly lost theirs. This is a huge test for you. Going to an LDS school will help in the sense that you will be surrounded by members (assuming they are active and faithful). But you will still have to create a foundation for yourself. All I can say is continue to do what you are doing in terms of study and prayer. Don't give up.

[Chrissy3818]

specka: yeah I know I need to find my own testimony and that's why I don't want to hear others testimonies, because I want to find my own not believe in theirs. I've already learned from it once and I need to find mine now. One where I will keep close the rest of my life.

carlimac: Maybe you're right. I think Satan knows whaat we can turn into like God does so he wants to prevent it. I hope I turn out like you're son and I think I will. With struggle though.

Eowyn: I think I just have a lot of teenage emotions running wild through me (teenage angst... isn't it lovely) and maybe I need to go back on my medication until I get out of my last teenage year. (Turn 18 in 5 months!). Thank you.

Misshathaway: you're the first person who made me cry. I could barely finish reading you're testimony it was getting very blurry. You related to me! I thank you so much! You really did help me and I am glad you ignored my "Don't give me you're testimony because it doesn't help." Well yours did! No one has ever related to me as much as you did. Others who give me their testimony I feel nothing as I think it does not relate to my struggles.

[jayanna]

I don't think you have lost your testimony. In your post about doing service for others you said that HF gave you opportunities and you didn't follow through with them. That tells me that you have eyes that see the work of the Lord. Your testimony is there, your feelings are not. Feelings and testimony are not the same thing. Sometimes we bury our feelings because of something that has gone on in our lives, sometimes when we are the victims of a crime, or in some cases the devastating choices that others have made. I think that you are so sad about your mother that you have numbed your feelings in order to cope with daily activities. It is not the same thing as losing your testimony.

The Holy Spirit can be there even when you have distanced yourself emotionally from the world. He doesn't need you to be emotional for Him to be there. Take a moment and think of a person in a coma for instance. If you have ever entered a hospital room to visit someone with the HG as a companion, you can sense His presence, even when the person in completely unconsious. The Holy Spirit is also there while you are sleeping. You do not have to feel in order for Him to be present and active in your life. You can look around and see the Lord at work all around you, you see the fruits of living the gospel and that is why you want to attend a school with high standards, that is a testimony to you. If you had no testimony, you wouldn't care what school you went to. In fact, you would only seek the school with the best worldly reputation and seek approval from the world on where you go....but you aren't because You Have a Testimony...you just aren't feeling the warm-fuzzies and comfort that you used to feel, your world has become uncertain and rocky and scary. But HE is Still There and you do see the effects He has on your life, you can see His plan for you. Follow it. He has not given up on you, don't you give up on Him because what you want to happen with your mom is not happening.

You are lonely, the Savior was lonely when He went into the Garden to pray and then returned to his disciples, they had turned their backs on him to get a little shut eye even though he had asked them not to. Even though he had loved, taught, led, comforted, and gave them the keys of the priesthood, they left him and Peter denied him. He has felt this pain. He is with you. He has not given up on your mom either.

trying to post a link to a Jeffrey R. Holland talk, None Were With Him: http://www.lds.org/liahona/2009/05/none-were-with-him?lang=eng&query=holland,+with+him+(name%3a"Jeffrey+R.+Holland")

He will not abandon her, even when she is turning away, He will still send help to show her the way back. after all, the sheep He leaves the fold for are the ones who have gone astray.

Maybe it is just your turn to be her light instead of the other way around.

[Chrissy3818]

If this helps without telling you what I did, I committed a sin underage (below 8) and talked to the bishop about it almost a year ago. He said not to worry and that God does account for sins that young. I feel God has forgiven me but... >>>>>>>> I don't know what is wrong with me I went from not wanting to get married into the temple, to (now) wanting to get married in the temple in the future, but feeling I am unworthy to.

[specka]

Chrissy I understand from your posts that you are very young. I applaud you for being mature to ask for advice and to recognize at this very critical stage in life that your need for a personal testimony is, well, necessary for survival spiritually. You mentioned you committed a "sin" younger than 8. I don't know what that "sin" was but I can pretty much guarantee you that what your bishop said in this case is true. You are not unworthy of anything you did at that age.

Is this event in your life causing this blockage of feeling the spirit you think? I don't know what this event is, but from personal experience I had an "event" happen to me at the age of 6 and felt guilty until about the age of 23 when I realized that it was all psychological guilt. Meaning I was depressed from what had happened to me and for some reason I internalized it as guilt. I'm not saying this is what is occurring in your case but I hope that maybe helps to see it from that perspective. And yes, if you are still feeling guilt from what happened to you as a child seeing the bishop can be very, very freeing.

[specka]

I think it's also safe to say that going back to the basics of building your testimony: studying, praying, and even talking to others is the way to build your testimony. You may find that what is occurring right now, at this very moment is what is creating your testimony. How very powerful that is!

[Chrissy3818]

Does this have anything to do with anything? Or... I don't know... I feel Satan is really trying to tear me down.

If this helps without telling you what I did, I committed a sin underage (below 8) and talked to the bishop about it almost a year ago. He said not to worry and that God does account for sins that young. I feel God has forgiven me but... >>>>>>>> I don't know what is wrong with me I went from not wanting to get married into the temple, to (now) wanting to get married in the temple in the future, but feeling I am unworthy to.

[specka]

It sounds like Satan is trying to tear you down as you have said. I'm not sure if your underage "sin" (I use quotations here because again I do not believe whatever it was was an actual sin) as anything to do with how you feel right now. You brought it up however, which leads me to believe that it might at least be part of something. You say you want to get married in the temple, but you feel unworthy. Based on the fact you said this relays to me that you still have a testimony and feel strongly about attending the temple someday. But why do you feel unworthy? You don't have to share why exactly but do you think this is causing your feeling "torn down?" Only you can answer that.

[Chrissy3818]

It sounds like Satan is trying to tear you down as you have said. I'm not sure if your underage "sin" (I use quotations here because again I do not believe whatever it was was an actual sin) as anything to do with how you feel right now. You brought it up however, which leads me to believe that it might at least be part of something. You say you want to get married in the temple, but you feel unworthy. Based on the fact you said this relays to me that you still have a testimony and feel strongly about attending the temple someday. But why do you feel unworthy? You don't have to share why exactly but do you think this is causing your feeling "torn down?" Only you can answer that.

I don't know, I don't believe (as my bishop said and mother) that God would hold me accountable because I didn't understand what I did was wrong, until I understood it.

[specka]

You mentioned earlier that you feel unworthy to enter the temple. Was I reading something wrong? I was only mentioning that because you mentioned it first :)

Up until very recently (I am 27) I was heavily influenced by my mother. She was pretty much my guide in life. I still respect her opinions. But I now realize that much of the time she was wrong. I still go to her for advice but I can say that when she stayed home from church, so did I. I pretty much leaned on her. Granted she never left the church--my point is is that I can see why it would be difficult to have your own super-solid testimony when you leaned on your mother's and then eventually she left. There is no doubt in my mind that would be very difficult. I unfortunately do not have a definitive answer to why you feel the way you do...but I can say through personal experience that again, you are not alone. Continue to study your scriptures, patriarchal blessing, whatever. And please see your bishop, he is your ally.

[Chrissy3818]

You mentioned earlier that you feel unworthy to enter the temple. Was I reading something wrong?

I meant I don't know why I feel unworthy to get married in the temple, I don't believe (as my bishop said and mother) that God would hold me accountable because I didn't understand what I did was wrong, until I understood it.

[Wingnut]

I haven't read any responses yet.

My first thought is that going to an LDS school in an attempt to gain a testimony of the LDS Church is a really dumb idea. The only time in my life that I've been inactive is at BYU. It's really easy to get lost at a church school. You see people in your classes and in the dorms so frequently that it's easy for them to not even realize when you aren't also at church. With required religion classes, floor prayer, FHE, opening/closing prayers in non-religion classes, etc., it's also really easy to excuse yourself from regular Sunday church attendance if you're not already solid.

My personal strongest testimony-building moments have happened when I've had to stand on my own, when I haven't been surrounded by a big LDS bubble, when I have had to know for myself and not be able to lean on others.

[Wingnut]

My first thought is that going to an LDS school in an attempt to gain a testimony of the LDS Church is a really dumb idea.

I just want to clarify that I think it's a dumb idea, not that Chrissy is dumb.

Eowyn: I think I just have a lot of teenage emotions running wild through me (teenage angst... isn't it lovely) and maybe I need to go back on my medication until I get out of my last teenage year. (Turn 18 in 5 months!). Thank you.

Eowyn made a great suggestion. This funk that you're in Chrissy does sound an awful lot like mild depression. I would caution you in your statement here, though -- don't let age be the deciding factor in when you quite taking your meds. Plenty of adults need anti-depressants as well.

[Chrissy3818]

I haven't read any responses yet.

My first thought is that going to an LDS school in an attempt to gain a testimony of the LDS Church is a really dumb idea. The only time in my life that I've been inactive is at BYU. It's really easy to get lost at a church school. You see people in your classes and in the dorms so frequently that it's easy for them to not even realize when you aren't also at church. With required religion classes, floor prayer, FHE, opening/closing prayers in non-religion classes, etc., it's also really easy to excuse yourself from regular Sunday church attendance if you're not already solid.

My personal strongest testimony-building moments have happened when I've had to stand on my own, when I haven't been surrounded by a big LDS bubble, when I have had to know for myself and not be able to lean on others.

I was going for more of an environment I want because I am ready to die and cry in the school environment I am in at the moment. I am tired of this environment. I want and environment where everywhere I go people aren't talking about drugs, alcohol and all the bad things they do. I just hope to gain a testimony there. It may or may not happen, but I just like the environment.

[Wingnut]

I was going for more of an environment I want because I am ready to die and cry in the school environment I am in at the moment. I am tired of this environment. I want and environment where everywhere I go people aren't talking about drugs, alcohol and all the bad things they do. I just hope to gain a testimony there. It may or may not happen, but I just like the environment.

That makes more sense to me, and it sounds like good reasoning -- "stand in holy places," etc. There are a lot of school out there that have strict honor codes. If you're struggling right now and just feeling lost in life, a smaller school might be a better environment for you than a large university.

[carlimac]

I was going for more of an environment I want because I am ready to die and cry in the school environment I am in at the moment. I am tired of this environment. I want and environment where everywhere I go people aren't talking about drugs, alcohol and all the bad things they do. I just hope to gain a testimony there. It may or may not happen, but I just like the environment.

I think you're right in this. You will find that a school with a higher percentage of LDS kids will be refreshing after the environment you describe. It was just what my son needed after being the only LDS kid his age in his school. And my teen girls were so relieved to have "cleaner" social surroundings when we moved from the midwest to Idaho. Rather than be turned off by it, they have thrived in the LDS culture.

I think it's easy to be and stay active at BYU (unlike others' experiences). There is an abundance of support. The bishops and other adult leaders are so willing to listen and give of their time. They have lots of experience and really do "specialize" in young adult concerns. The only thing I would warn you of is the culture shock that happens when you leave the bubble. It can be discouraging, even if you stay in Utah or Idaho. So like Wingnut said, it's important to be sure you have a strong foundation of your own once you step out into the world. And be ready for the onslaught.

[Chrissy3818]

So like Wingnut said, it's important to be sure you have a strong foundation of your own once you step out into the world. And be ready for the onslaught.

I agree! That's why well in college and even starting now I going to build my weak testimony into something amazing. That way when I step into the real world I can shine my way through it.

[candyprpl]

Oh dear Chrissy -- I'm glad my post made you think. I still can't understand your questioning. I do understand the feelings of thinking that people at Church are too judgmental or say things that make you want to go home and not come back. But we must remember that people are human and say things or do things that are not Christ-like and we must also remember that only Heavenly Father knows there heart. I just try to remember that the only thing that counts is my heart and feelings and my relationship with Heavenly Father. There have been times when I have wondered about some of my ward members -- but then I am quickly reminded that they are here on earth facing trials of their own and maybe they've been put into a position in the Church to be tested to see if they will become more Christ-like. I'm a Sunday School teacher for the 14-15 age group and I constantly worry that I will say something that might bring discouragement in their lives rather than strengthening their testimonies.

Do you love yourself as much as Heavenly Father loves you? Sometimes our doubts come from our disbelief in who we think we are. Do you doubt the love Heavenly Father has for you? Do you feel unworthy of such love? Believe me, when I say that when I answered these questions for myself, it brought me to my knees in tears. I allowed the comforting hand of Jesus to heal me.

[Chrissy3818]

Do you love yourself as much as Heavenly Father loves you?

I am unsure

Do you doubt the love Heavenly Father has for you?

Yes

Do you feel unworthy of such love?

Yes

[candyprpl]

Dear Chrissy,

I strongly urge you to pray to have this doubt removed from your thoughts. I DON'T NEED TO KNOW YOU PERSONALLY TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE WORTHY OF HIS LOVE AND THAT HE DOES LOVE YOU!! YOU ARE HIS SPIRIT CHILD. If you had a child (don't know if you do or not) but could you imagine not loving him or her? No, of course not. And our Heavenly Father is more perfect than we are and His love is perfect. He would not send you to earth to gain a body, be tested and watch with anticipation when you might come back to Him if he didn't love you and think of you as being worthy of His love.

He loves you and you are worthy!

If you haven't already, read my profile.

[Chrissy3818]

Dear Chrissy,

I strongly urge you to pray to have this doubt removed from your thoughts. I DON'T NEED TO KNOW YOU PERSONALLY TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE WORTHY OF HIS LOVE AND THAT HE DOES LOVE YOU!! YOU ARE HIS SPIRIT CHILD. If you had a child (don't know if you do or not) but could you imagine not loving him or her? No, of course not. And our Heavenly Father is more perfect than we are and His love is perfect. He would not send you to earth to gain a body, be tested and watch with anticipation when you might come back to Him if he didn't love you and think of you as being worthy of His love.

He loves you and you are worthy!

If you haven't already, read my profile.

Just read it now, thank you :). I know I'll get through this, but I am afraid that if I find that one special guy who is ready to take me to the temple, I will not be ready to go because I'll still be struggling with my testimony.

Or

I'll go off of his faith which is what I absolutely do not want! I want to find my own testimony, but I won't be able to marry any one in the temple till I have a testimony of my own.