Who is God?


Christyba75
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God is an alien. He's an ancient astronaut. He is a member of a civilization with our same/similar DNA

How do you reconcile this with the "big bang" theory? Is this God/Alien confined to our universe, or does He exist outside of our universe? Did he observe the singularity (or whatever it was) and initiate the big bang as part of the creative process? Or do you prefer a different origin of the universe model that doesn't have a beginning point?
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First, I'd like to suggest that the scriptures aren't 100% historically accurate. Did the flood cover the peaks of every mountain on earth? Did the star stay in the same position above Bethlehem at all times? Did people live 900 years? I'm one of those who thinks that some biblical stories may be more allegorical than literal.

Correct, the majority, if not all, of members believe that the Bible is not 100% accurate.

The flood I am more inclined to believe a recent quote posted here on lds.net, which specified how in baptism some of the body is deeply covered by water, where at times peoples hair may be covered by the water at a different depth. It doesn't matter how deep the water was to cover the mountains, it only matters that they were covered.

Others have shared a localized flood.

The star most likely was newly created planet. As with any star during the day it wasn't there due to the light of the sun, and at night it was seen again.

Yes, people definitely lived as long as they say in the Bible. God is able to lengthen or shorten our days at his will.

Second, we understand that the words of the scriptures were inspired, not usually handed to man word-for-word in English, so the phrasing may be a partial product of the mind of the prophet.

Some agree, some don't. I think of revelation to the prophets like revelation to myself. At times, I have a clear words spoken unto me and I am able to recall and write them as they were given, word for word, as from the voice of the Holy Spirit. Other times they are impressions written down and are a partial product of my mind. I am more inclined as such to believe prophets receive the same type of revelation.

Third, I don't sleep well believing in paradoxes: can God make a rock so big that even he can't lift it? I say he can't. Even Cleon Skousen says that there are things God can't do.

I find this type of question ridiculous, nothing meant in offense, just what I feel. God doesn't need to lift the rock, through the priesthood he commands elements and they move and obey. It is a pointless statement, in my opinion. Cleon Skousen is a man with his own opinions and he can have them, as anybody else.

This question reminds me of conversation I had with a friend about how if God is all powerful, then can he create a rock he can't jump over? I find these conversation really silly and juvenile.

So, here's the postulate. I'm sure that I'm not the first one to suggest this, and maybe if I searched harder, I could find others who believe this. God is an alien. He's an ancient astronaut. He is a member of a civilization with our same/similar DNA who when he said, "yonder is matter unorganized" was so very technologically advanced that they could do terra forming and start life on new planets. They have harnessed the ability to "read minds" (sense EEG wave forms at a distance) and preserve individual consciousnesses after death, and then transfer the individual's memories into an advanced body which is not subject to mortal decay. God and his society have rules and regulations (which we call commandments) for advancement.

Very interesting thoughts, but nothing in scripture backs up your thoughts. Questions I would ask, what does it mean that God is spirit? What is the purpose of death to becoming like God then? Why do we just not change like the "ancients" in Stargate? Death to become like a highly evolved civilization doesn't make any sense.

God just being an advanced civilization and race negates the atonement. There is no point to the atonement if God is but an advanced race. An advanced race/civilization would care for knowledge, not a person dying so that others could be saved.

The Priesthood. If God is just an advanced race then what is the priesthood? Is it just a name for "higher intellect?"

Before you think me a nut job, please consider that this IS what we believe but we say it using Victorian English and limiting ourselves to ancient phrasing so that it sounds more pious to our ears. But from a 21st century viewpoint, isn't this what we believe?

No one thinks you a nut job. This is just evidence that when people say Mormons are brainwashed and can not think on their own, well, this proves it highly wrong. The Lord has given us a mind to think, and to think for ourselves, it is great.

No, from a 21st century view point this is not what we believe. The questions you have proposed and statements presented are speculative, not doctrinal.

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It's no mystery that God is an alien. The definition of alien is not little green man. The definition of alien is a person who is not indigenous. In this case, he is not a native to our earth.

It would be more of a stretch of the imagination to assume God was born on Earth, that doesn't compute.

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So, here's the postulate. I'm sure that I'm not the first one to suggest this, and maybe if I searched harder, I could find others who believe this. God is an alien. He's an ancient astronaut. He is a member of a civilization with our same/similar DNA who when he said, "yonder is matter unorganized" was so very technologically advanced that they could do terra forming and start life on new planets. They have harnessed the ability to "read minds" (sense EEG wave forms at a distance) and preserve individual consciousnesses after death, and then transfer the individual's memories into an advanced body which is not subject to mortal decay. God and his society have rules and regulations (which we call commandments) for advancement.

Before you think me a nut job, please consider that this IS what we believe but we say it using Victorian English and limiting ourselves to ancient phrasing so that it sounds more pious to our ears. But from a 21st century viewpoint, isn't this what we believe?

This is as good a description of our beliefs as "wow, you're hot," is a paraphrase of

"Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?

Thou art more lovely and more temperate.

Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,

And summer's lease hath all too short a date.

Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,

And often is his gold complexion dimmed;

And every fair from fair sometime declines,

By chance, or nature's changing course, untrimmed;

But thy eternal summer shall not fade,

Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow'st,

Nor shall death brag thou wand'rest in his shade,

When in eternal lines to Time thou grow'st.

So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,

So long lives this, and this gives life to thee."

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When I first started to learn of LDS beliefs at this site I had thoughts like the OP. God progresses. Matter is eternal and God fashioned it, rather than creating "out of nothing." I thought, "With these beliefs God could be a very advanced alien." Without rabbit-trailing off into other subjects I would suggest that traditional Christian teachings are less compatible with the idea of God as simply a more advanced alien.

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Speculation is fun sometimes.

I respect the scientific mind and it's ruthless devotion to ruling out stuff that doesn't belong.

Something to consider, from IMO one of the scripture's most inspired notions:

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Or, if you'd like something a bit less Victorian-Englishish:

If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

I'm not saying you're lacking it, I just find it something important for a master thinker and reasoner to keep in mind.

I wish you well.

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I am a life-long member, and I'm also a scientist who tries to make everything fit. I'd like to propose a model for the plan of salvation which works within the framework of scientific possibility. Then I invite everyone try to poke holes in it and find conflicts with the scriptures and Church doctrine.

First, I'd like to suggest that the scriptures aren't 100% historically accurate. Did the flood cover the peaks of every mountain on earth? Did the star stay in the same position above Bethlehem at all times? Did people live 900 years? I'm one of those who thinks that some biblical stories may be more allegorical than literal.

Second, we understand that the words of the scriptures were inspired, not usually handed to man word-for-word in English, so the phrasing may be a partial product of the mind of the prophet.

Third, I don't sleep well believing in paradoxes: can God make a rock so big that even he can't lift it? I say he can't. Even Cleon Skousen says that there are things God can't do.

So, here's the postulate. I'm sure that I'm not the first one to suggest this, and maybe if I searched harder, I could find others who believe this. God is an alien. He's an ancient astronaut. He is a member of a civilization with our same/similar DNA who when he said, "yonder is matter unorganized" was so very technologically advanced that they could do terra forming and start life on new planets. They have harnessed the ability to "read minds" (sense EEG wave forms at a distance) and preserve individual consciousnesses after death, and then transfer the individual's memories into an advanced body which is not subject to mortal decay. God and his society have rules and regulations (which we call commandments) for advancement.

Before you think me a nut job, please consider that this IS what we believe but we say it using Victorian English and limiting ourselves to ancient phrasing so that it sounds more pious to our ears. But from a 21st century viewpoint, isn't this what we believe?

Your turn. I want to hear it.

As a scientist I find your suggestions "interesting". I would like to suggest some thoughts - concerning the flood. What is water and at what density must it be to be considered "covering"?

A thought about "the Star". A supernova within the range of 600 light years could have profound effects of earth - perhaps causing the ozone to fluoresce for say 3 days? So that for the corresponding period of time there was no night but constant light that would have no shadows? And a "New" star that for a time could even be seen during the day?

Could humans live 900 years? Not with our current diet and other habits. But advances could have profound effects once we understand genetics better. Aging can altered be geneticaly .

Now concerning your suggestions about G-d. One often cited "possibility" in science is that given infinite possibilities anything that is possible is also likely - somewhere, sometime. Thus within our understanding of evolution - anything that can happen can be caused to happen. Also with evolution, if allowed to continued will eventually evolve intelligence capable of replicating anything that is possible. I have used this argument with my fellow atheists scientist. Thus the idea of G-d if not at the "beginning" of things is by all rational thought the inevitable conclusion.

As we study artificial intelligence (I work in the field of automation, robotics and artificial intelligence - exclusively in manufacturing) - there are rather interesting studies concerning the "hive" mind currently evolving through the use of social media. - You may want to review my thread titled "Evolution, Artificial Intelligence and Oneness with G-d".

The Traveler

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I don't know who created this alien God any more than we know who created the traditional Mormon God. Lorenzo Snow's mantra would have us believe that our God was once a man on another world with his own god who is now doing what? I do believe that our God is limited by the laws of physics. Didn't Brigham Young teach that all "miracles" are just advanced science? Why would an advanced race require an atonement? I have my guesses. But for that matter, why would a mystical God? For whatever reason, a being (God/Alien) who knows more than I, has given us rules to live by if we want to go be where he is.

No, Brigham Young did not teach that miracles are an advanced "science", but we have been taught that they are apart of a Celestial law we have not yet understood. If you want to define this as science that is purely up to you.

Is God bound by physics or did God create physics? There is a very interesting discussion if you search it regarding this.

All of God's children, good or evil, return to God after death. In judgement we then receive our reward.

There is no purpose for an atonement in an advanced race if that is all that God is, an alien civilization.

Why death? How does death evolve us into an advanced alien race? Why even come to earth to gain a body? Why were we spirits and not already like our advanced parentage if all God is is an advanced race?

You asked for loopholes, these are the loopholes I see in merely thinking God is solely an "advanced race and civilization."

Edited by Anddenex
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I am a life-long member, and I'm also a scientist who tries to make everything fit. I'd like to propose a model for the plan of salvation which works within the framework of scientific possibility. Then I invite everyone try to poke holes in it and find conflicts with the scriptures and Church doctrine.

First, I'd like to suggest that the scriptures aren't 100% historically accurate. Did the flood cover the peaks of every mountain on earth? Did the star stay in the same position above Bethlehem at all times? Did people live 900 years? I'm one of those who thinks that some biblical stories may be more allegorical than literal.

Second, we understand that the words of the scriptures were inspired, not usually handed to man word-for-word in English, so the phrasing may be a partial product of the mind of the prophet.

Third, I don't sleep well believing in paradoxes: can God make a rock so big that even he can't lift it? I say he can't. Even Cleon Skousen says that there are things God can't do.

So, here's the postulate. I'm sure that I'm not the first one to suggest this, and maybe if I searched harder, I could find others who believe this. God is an alien. He's an ancient astronaut. He is a member of a civilization with our same/similar DNA who when he said, "yonder is matter unorganized" was so very technologically advanced that they could do terra forming and start life on new planets. They have harnessed the ability to "read minds" (sense EEG wave forms at a distance) and preserve individual consciousnesses after death, and then transfer the individual's memories into an advanced body which is not subject to mortal decay. God and his society have rules and regulations (which we call commandments) for advancement.

Before you think me a nut job, please consider that this IS what we believe but we say it using Victorian English and limiting ourselves to ancient phrasing so that it sounds more pious to our ears. But from a 21st century viewpoint, isn't this what we believe?

Your turn. I want to hear it.

Scriptures use metaphor and anecdotal teaching, it is not a science book.

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Why death? How does death evolve us into an advanced alien race? Why even come to earth to gain a body? Why were we spirits and not already like our advanced parentage if all God is is an advanced race?

You asked for loopholes, these are the loopholes I see in merely thinking God is solely an "advanced race and civilization."

Never in the scriptures has death been avoided. Every body must die. Then a new body is given.

I'm just saying that I don't see that the scriptures are disharmonious with the advanced race concept. Any civilization that is advanced enough will appear as a god.

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Never in the scriptures has death been avoided. Every body must die. Then a new body is given.

I'm just saying that I don't see that the scriptures are disharmonious with the advanced race concept. Any civilization that is advanced enough will appear as a god.

I think then, this is where I personally have a hard time speaking of God as merely an advanced human or evolved race.

Correct, a new body is given, but in an advanced race why would a new body be necessary? I don't see a new body being necessary to be considered an advanced race.

I would agree that any highly advanced race could appear to a lower educated society/civilization as a God, but the question remains, is the highly advanced race a God race?

For example, Star Trek, these episodes show how they visit worlds who are no where near as advanced as they are, but the federation is not a God, but could be considered a God, by these less educated races.

What then stems, or transitions a higher evolved civilization truly to a God, verses merely being more educated?

The "Q", are an advanced race with Godlike qualities, at the snap of a finger they change events within lower species, yet even the offspring of the Q are in exact form as their parentage.

Our parentage however, is not the same form as their offspring, why is this? In order to become like our God, our Heavenly Father, we must first receive a mortal body, die, and then resurrect with a new body. I personally feel, we dumb down God by merely thinking he is an advance evolved civilization.

But, then again, if this is how it is, it doesn't hurt my testimony, it is how it is.

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God is not a superadvanced alien. Exaltation is not just highly evolved technology. We are spirit children of our Father in heaven. The "advanced alien" concept, though popular among anti-Mormons as a way to characterize our beliefs, simply does not mesh with our beliefs about God, man, premortality, and exaltation.

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When I first started to learn of LDS beliefs at this site I had thoughts like the OP. God progresses. Matter is eternal and God fashioned it, rather than creating "out of nothing." I thought, "With these beliefs God could be a very advanced alien." Without rabbit-trailing off into other subjects I would suggest that traditional Christian teachings are less compatible with the idea of God as simply a more advanced alien.

It really boils down to the definition of advanced and alien. It's hard to ague that God is not more advanced. It's hard to argue that he originated on earth. Therefore, the words advanced and alien both describe him. But when prefaced with "simply", it communicates a different thing. It communicates he is nothing else. So the word "simply" doesn't work, at least for me. It's commonly supposed (here) that He (God the Father) has parents. That changes things significantly to say the least.

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garryw, you've got the right idea. Traditionalists would even argue that God has no origin on earth or anywhere else. Since we believe He always was what he currently is--that He has no beginning or end--we would say that He is the origin of all else. No parents either. Also, since traditionalists argue that God is omnipresent how would we say that God was "from" anywhere--since He is everywhere?

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If He is omnipresent, then how could one enter His presence or be cast out of His presence? Neither would be possible. One could gain knowledge of God, but never proximity. Kind of like a dad you could skype with but never meet.

As far as beginning and end, He doesnt need either. I consider myself to be without beginning or end, although I have a birth date. So you are right, true origin can't be located, because there is none. Only events (birth) can be located.

Edited by garryw
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garryw, you've got the right idea. Traditionalists would even argue that God has no origin on earth or anywhere else. Since we believe He always was what he currently is--that He has no beginning or end--we would say that He is the origin of all else. No parents either. Also, since traditionalists argue that God is omnipresent how would we say that God was "from" anywhere--since He is everywhere?

I do not what to start a discussion that cannot possibly ever have an actual conclusion - but I have never understood from the traditionalists point of view - what is there about G-d that he does not want mankind to emulate of him in the same manner that G-d conducts his affairs? As near as I can currently understand - everything and every attribute G-d would be pleased that we emulate such things - even out of the same love and compassion that he does.

The Traveler

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