Is there any good way to do business with ward members, friends, or family?

[Guest]

We bought a little rental property this year that needed some minor work done. Hired a guy in our ward who's been short on work to do a small job that needed done right away at the insistence of our insurance company. He started 3 weeks after he said he'd have it done (and after we gave him money for supplies), then left a big mess that our tenant called and complained about.

I had my hair cut by a girl in our ward who has a salon in her house and a good reputation. I don't like my cut and kind of hate something specific she did. So now I'm getting it fixed somewhere else and have to deal with the awkwardness of seeing her at church with my new haircut done by someone else.

My husband occasionally does work with his brother. It never seems to go very well and he's never made money from it. . . in fact he usually loses money. He also does work for my sisters' business sometimes, which is stressful for me, because I feel like if something goes wrong it's going to be weird for all of us.

The only good experience I've had doing business with someone I know personally is one friend for whom I've taught piano and watched her kids while she works. But she is very conscientious about keeping a line between work and friendship. For piano she always paid on time, and for babysitting, she makes sure I get paid if she's getting paid (as opposed to watching each others' kids as a favor when someone has an appointment or something).

Tricky things, boundaries.

[Backroads]

I'm sure there's a good way and that someone out there can do business no problem, but I've sworn off doing business with friends because I have been badly burned (and the friendship pretty much disintegrated).

As for ward members, I guess I've never had a bad experience with doing/not doing business with ward members. Maybe I'm insensitive to the needs and feelings of local hairdressers.

My mother, however, has near perfected the system--she teaches piano and does all sorts of business trades with ward members and she's very demanding about payment.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Backroads

[Guest]

Maybe I'm insensitive to the needs and feelings of local hairdressers.

You animal!

When I'm in the position to teach piano again, I'll be a lot more strict about payment on time and showing up for lessons. I've been a big wimp in the past.

[Vort]

You animal!

When I'm in the position to teach piano again, I'll be a lot more strict about payment on time and showing up for lessons. I've been a big wimp in the past.

"Showing up on time" really just means that the lesson ENDS at a certain time. They are allowed to come as early as 1:00, but whenever they show up, the lesson is over at 2:00. If you explain this to them up front, my guess is that there will be fewer misunderstandings.

(Giving out free, unsolicited advice: It's what I do.)

[mrmarklin]

I tend to deal straight up. I do a little homework, and find out from others about competence, reputation and payment habits.

Just as I do in the business world that I inhabit.

I wouldn't treat a member of the church any different than other business relationships. i wouldn't expect a favor, nor a cut rate price. I wouldn't offer it either.:)

[classylady]

Have the piano students pay a monthly rate due at the first of the month. Let the parents know if the students don't show they don't get their money back. Then, if they don't show, you're not out any money.

[Dravin]

I'm disinclined to throw business someone's way as a matter of charity. If I really feel like I need to help there are more direct ways to go about it.

[Guest]

"Showing up on time" really just means that the lesson ENDS at a certain time. They are allowed to come as early as 1:00, but whenever they show up, the lesson is over at 2:00. If you explain this to them up front, my guess is that there will be fewer misunderstandings.

(Giving out free, unsolicited advice: It's what I do.)

Oh yes, I've done that. I have to, because usually someone else is coming at the end of their slot. My problem is in people cancelling last minute, or just not showing up. For sickness that's fine, but not because Junior didn't practice or doesn't feel like it today or the family is doing something else instead. Because then I don't get income that I've counted on. I think my plan is to charge monthly tuition instead of a fee per lesson, and insist on payment in advance. I've got a good name around here and usually have a waiting list (even now, when I'm not planning on starting up again for at least 9 months) so I hope this won't be asking too much.

[Wingnut]

Contracts. Doesn't matter if it's friends or family. Spell out exactly what the expectations are from each party, and you both sign it in advance. It's not personal, it's business.

[Vort]

Oh yes, I've done that. I have to, because usually someone else is coming at the end of their slot. My problem is in people cancelling last minute, or just not showing up. For sickness that's fine, but not because Junior didn't practice or doesn't feel like it today or the family is doing something else instead. Because then I don't get income that I've counted on. I think my plan is to charge monthly tuition instead of a fee per lesson, and insist on payment in advance. I've got a good name around here and usually have a waiting list (even now, when I'm not planning on starting up again for at least 9 months) so I hope this won't be asking too much.

They pay a month in advance. They don't have to come, but their payment reserves the slot.

[Backroads]

Another thing my mom does when friends and ward members still manage to circumvent her strategies:

Makes up some half-true mumbo jumbo about needing to cut down on student numbers. It shows who is willing to get back on the ball and who will admit they just need to drop out.

[Sharky]

Don't teach piano, I could but it would be kind of the same as my hairdressing skills .....

I know when we rented a small home to a family member we did so thru an intermediary (basically a management company) so that we weren't in a direct business relationship with them. They didn't like it but it was that or ntohing from the time they first asked us about renting from us.

When we put that home on the market we also did so with an intermediary (our attorney) so that we had npo knowledge of who or where the offers came from - just made our easier as we were simply being told what the offer was. I guess it was kind of just luck that they ended up being the offer we accepted ...

I get VERY irritated when someone says 9 AM & they intend that as the time they leave home 45-minutes away rather then the time I expect them to arrive here at my place. For repeat offenders I have on many occaisions told them I would not be here at 9:30 unless they were here before then - & I wasn't!

Doing work with family & ward members, whether I hire them or they hire me or simply they need help, I always figure that time & effort & expense on my part is donated.

I go into it with that idea, figuring I am simply serving or helping & not really expecting anythig in return.

I am never disappointed though frequently pleasantly surprised!:)

[skippy740]

I think it's good karma for the provider of services to state something like:

"This is business, it's not personal. For whatever reason you aren't happy, it's okay. I just hope you would tell me why you're dissatisfied first, but it's a business decision and I won't take it personally. I don't want us to have a wierd relationship at church."

If you're hiring someone, you might want to say something similar:

"I've heard you did this kind of work, and I would like to give you a shot. If I'm not happy, I will tell you so either we can get it right, or we part ways... but it's purely business, not personal. I don't want us to have a wierd relationship at church. Is that okay?"

It's simply pointing out the "elephant in the room" and giving the person an 'out' if they need it, how to do it and not feel guilty about it later.

Because you (they) do that, they're more likely to build more trusting relationships simply because you care more about the relationship and the quality of work behind it... than just the money.

[Guest]

This is a very tricky thing. That's why you always hear that it is wise to not do business with family/close friends unless you're prepared to lose that relationship. And that's including co-signing for your adult son's car. You know how they always say, don't loan money to family - if you're going to give them money, don't expect it to come back.

Three stories from my family:

1.) My uncle is a lawyer. He has 2 waiting areas in his office - one for family and friends (if you live in his hometown and you're not with the opposing political party, you're a friend) - and another for everybody else. One waiting room gets priority over the other. And anybody going through that waiting room is free of charge.

2.) My other uncle is a general surgeon. He has not once charged for service. To anybody. He lives off his pay as the mayor of the town and the gifts from people (some people would "pay" him with bananas or baby goats or chickens...)

3.) My brother is a neurologist. He is expensive. Family do not pay for the service but they need to pay for the hospital and the meds. Friends get a discounted rate. But, he does not just do neuro for family and friends - if you have a stomach ache, you can ask him to check you out and he'll figure out what you need to do next. No charge. Last month, my classmate from elementary through high school had a cousin (or was it nephew, can't remember) who was my brother's neuro patient. My brother gave him the family discount. I haven't talked to my classmate since I left for the US - 20 years ago. And I have never met this cousin/nephew. But my brother gave him the family rate anyway because my brother considered him "connected to the family".

In all these 3 stories, my uncles and brother has an established process for family and friends and it is already worked into their take-home pay. And everybody knows what to expect. If you want to keep a good relationship with them (which you would want to because they are a big help), you meet the expectations, otherwise, you could get voted off the island...

I have a friend who abused the privilege who none of the family would do business with anymore. We're still friends, he just has to go to the other waiting room. And he knows why.

Now, of course, there are times when my uncles and brother's help did not work or failed or was just a mistake. It's part of the job. Everybody knows they do good work and that they give their best. So, family and friends forgive these errors... and you can always go to other people instead and everybody would be fine with it... the discounted/free rate kinda make it more difficult to complain or go to other people though.

Edited December 11, 2012 by anatess