How do I ask to leave?


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I have been thinking about this for a long time. During this time I have talked to other people about my situation and what I should do, but I have received very few answers. I am at the point to where I am petitioning this question to the net so maybe I could get more ideas.

*This is long. I apologize.*

This all started in July of last year. My spouse was at work and somehow go this idea that if she truly wanted to be happy she needed to be sealed to her husband—but she had no idea what this meant. I’ve been counted as a member most of my life; however, I haven’t attended church for most of the years I have been a member. It would be safe to assume that I know very little regarding LDS doctrine. So I erroneously thought that my spouse was referring to the church I was a member of—at least on paper.

We went to sacrament the following weekend and found the sister missionaries sitting the back row...where I usually try to hide. After a short chat I asked them for their number and left after the service without participating in any of the other classes.

Later that day we called the missionaries, and scheduled a meeting with them at the church. Our house is very old and we didn’t want to have company over. In fact, I haven’t invited any friends over since I’ve bought this place.

The talks continued for about a month, and each week my wife asked me questions I didn’t have the answers to. On Sunday we would be sitting in the pews listening to the talks and when the speaker said something she didn’t agree with my wife would give me this look like that person was totally crazy. I responded by shrugging my shoulders and opening the gospel application in my iPhone.

During those weeks I also began checking church doctrine on the internet, and to my disappointment I found many things that were very surprising. In this strange twist of events my wife was learning about how to get into the church while I was finding reasons to leave.

Anyway, the time came and my spouse accepted the invitation on a Saturday to be baptized. When I drove to the parking lot I noticed a lot of cars, and I thought that perhaps some of the members were participating in another event. To my surprise they were all there for the baptism. They created a service out of a single event and no one even bothered to call us ahead of time!

We went inside, my wife changed clothes, and then she was asked to sit in the chapel while the congregation sang songs and gave a prayer. Mind you I’m stewing in the pew thinking why didn’t anyone have the decency to call ahead and say, “We thought you’d like to know a few hundred of our closest friends.” When I was baptized I watched the people walk away before I could step out of the pool. It isn’t that I was envious, it’s just that I thought these people were being very...I don’t know...imposing.

After the prayer my spouse was escorted to the font, and from nowhere some middle-aged woman began asking me a dozen questions like I was in a job interview. I was asked, “Where do you live?”

“In town,” I replied tersely.

“How long have you lived there?”

“A few years.”

“Where do you work?”

“In town.”

“Where does your wife work?”

“She also works in town.”

“Do you have any children?”

“No.” I lied, but it was none of her business.

“Are you a member?”

“Yes.”

“Oh, for how long?”

Quick answer. “I’m new.”

“When did were you baptized?”

Now I need another lie. “Last year.”

“Where at?”

“I don’t remember.”

“Well welcome to our ward.” The woman attempted to shake my hand, and I walk away. It was in that conversation that I realized that I really wasn’t a member of the church. I have been bottling feelings of hatred and resentment until it’s tarry enough to use on my roof. And I had been doing this for years. I have no idea why I went along with the missionary talks, but I wish I didn't. God how I wish I didn’t.

We were in the chapel—again—as I sat sleepy-eyed through more testimonies. At this point I very much didn’t want to be there.

The service was over. Finally. I grabbed my spouse and marched down the hall at a frantic pace. One of the sister missionaries stopped us and asked us if we wanted peach cobbler, which I refused flatly.

We got into the car, rolled down the window for my claustrophobia, and sped out of the parking lot with the tires squealing.

The rest of the ride was very somber. I told my wife that I didn’t believe in the church anymore and most of what they taught wasn’t entire accurate with biblical scripture—or at least that’s how I interpret it. Every person is allowed to have their own opinion on what they feel the church does or does not do for them.

We arrived home. I turned on the computer and verified all the information I had been spilling for the past 20 minutes. My spouse then called the sister missionaries and told them to not send her records. I could hear the person on the other end of the phone shouting, “What changed?!” I wanted to reply, “I changed. That’s what changed. It was me.”

I spend the rest of the night composing a letter to my bishop regarding my resignation. Several sites were filled with exit letter templates, but I chose to form my own. I received a call a few days later—probably because we failed to show up for the conformation—and was asked to attend an interview.

I sat in the bishops office going over the issues I had only to be met with, “I’ll do what you want, but I want you to understand the consequences of your actions.”

God...Fine...You win. You people always win. I mean, as long as you're making veiled threats why don’t you include my life, my money, and my family while you're at it.

“Sure.” I finally replied after a long pause. “I don’t see what good it will do.”

During that interview I also made several promises I never intended on keeping like attending elders quorum and reading my scriptures. I went to sacrament twice out of guilt, and I haven’t so much as cracked my scriptures.

Time went on and now I’m contemplating leaving again. This time, however, a new bishop has taken over, and I know from personal experience that he’s a little hard nosed. I sent out another letter, but it was returned with no forwarding address. I don’t want to talk to this guy, and I’m not going to make another mistake like talking to the missionaries.

I just want this to be over. I haven’t been an active member since 2006, and even then the only major accomplishment I did was baptism for the dead. How lame is that? I could only do what the twelve year olds are expected to do. Most of my weekends are occupied with so many other things I don’t have time to go anymore. I have moved on spiritually in an entirely different direction.

So my question is how do I persuade my bishop to hurry with my excommunication? I’ve asked for this several times, and I feel like I’m met with resistance. I know I did have one opportunity to leave and I totally blew it.

How can I find out of the church made my spouse into a member? The last bishop I talked to said she wasn’t a member because she wasn’t confirmed. However, I know how the secretary can be and I feel certain that a record of her baptism is sitting in Salt Lake somewhere among millions of other members who are currently not going.

If my spouse isn’t a member, how can we get the baptism removed or at least canceled. And how do I find this information?

During the interview I my bishop said he wanted to have my spouse confirmed. I said that I didn’t mind, but did he want her exit letter now or mailed?— to which he suddenly changed the subject and ignored me.

I do apologize for this being so long. I do not consider myself as anti-LDS, and I'm just trying to find where I belong. That being said, I would appreciate any suggestions from other members who have handled this process and know their way around the system.

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Hi kloud. I was a ward clerk for a few years recently and processed a couple of these requests. Whereas I'm familiar with the process from within the Church-and since you seem to have your mind made up-allow me to tell you what I've learned from the administrative side of things.

The best option is to mail your letter to your current bishop. If you can't find his address, you can try dropping the letter off at the building on a weekday (you could even do it when no one was there). If you haven't heard anything within a couple weeks, I would follow up with another letter. You could also send a letter to your stake president. If you send one to him, explain that you're having trouble reaching your bishop. He should forward it on.

If your bishop drags his heels, contact the stake president. These things are supposed to be processed promptly. If that doesn't work, you could try sending a letter to Salt Lake or send a follow up letter from a lawyer.

So you're aware of the process, when the bishop receives your letter, he is supposed to notify you that having your name removed will cancel your baptism, confirmation, priesthood ordinations, and temple ordinances. If you are endowed, you will be told that you should no longer wear the Temple Garment. I don't imagine these will be an issue for you, but it is a notice he is supposed to provide. He then forwards the request to the stake president who sends a follow up letter informing you that unless you notify him in the next 30 days, your membership in the Church will be cancelled. After that, there probably won't be any more contact.

Some people do like to drag their heels on this matter, so be consistent and send follow up notifications every few weeks.

As for your wife, she can't have a membership record created without having been confirmed. If they do transmit any information to Church headquarters, it will be incomplete and won't show up in any standard reports. Unfortunately, there is no way to have your records permanently destroyed. Asking the Church to do that is like asking your doctor's office to destroy all of your medical records. They won't do it and they don't have to; the records are their property and they may maintain them as long as they like. The only time they will be used, however, is if you decide to pursue readmission into the Church.

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The talks continued for about a month, and each week my wife asked me questions I didn’t have the answers to. On Sunday we would be sitting in the pews listening to the talks and when the speaker said something she didn’t agree with my wife would give me this look like that person was totally crazy. I responded by shrugging my shoulders and opening the gospel application in my iPhone.

During those weeks I also began checking church doctrine on the internet, and to my disappointment I found many things that were very surprising. In this strange twist of events my wife was learning about how to get into the church while I was finding reasons to leave.

Would you be open to asking questions on here to help get clarity on various issues that you've undoubtedly learned in your searching?

BTW, having your name removed from church records is not the same as an excommunication. Excommunication is a result of sinful living where as having your name removed is done by choice. It may feel that the result is the same, but if you wanted to be rebaptized into the church, I believe it's easier for a person whose name was removed by choice, than by excommunication.

I can understand the feeling of frustration when things don't go as you mentally planned. Been there. Heck, I had those feelings when I wasn't in the mood to serve a mission and my recently-returned-mission-president-who-was-now-my-Bishop seemed to have me in his sights with a laser scope. Everytime I saw him it was "when are you going to serve". It took my parents to get him to back off because nothing I was saying or doing was making any difference, except to annoy me even further.

I wish you well.

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Wow kloud - that's a heck of a story. The short answer to your question, is you should threaten a lawsuit. You can find websites to help you threaten the correct way.

The long answer, is you will never find peace anywhere with anything you chose to do, until you solve whatever issues you have that make you lie instead of tell the truth. I have no clue why you have such a hard time being forthright with yourself and others, choosing instead to 'take the easy way out' and lie in order to achive whatever end you think is preferable. But if I were in your shoes, that's where I would spend my time.

I'm not trying to manipulate or giving veiled threats or applying pressure for you to do anything one way or the other. I've seen folks with issues like yours, solve them outside of any church, maybe you can too. And I also wish you and your wife and children well, I hope you all can find peace.

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I'm going to come from another perspective. I'm inactive and don't really have any faith in the church. I don't consider myself a member of the church but i am one on paper. At the end of the day i've thought about having my name removed but i ask my self why. Yes that means i'm still in the records, but what does that really mean when you don't believe?

i can see why some people think this step is a must, either for closure to one last show of having power, but i don't see the point. To me still being on the membership roll only has as much power as i give it so we only as much about it as we allow ourselves to.

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Have you asked your wife how she felt about being baptised? I am probably going to ruffle some feathers but as you said in your initial post... everyone is entitaled to their opinion.

All I saw in your post was I I I... not one single word of what your sweet wife wanted. Lots of sisters in the church go to church by themselves. I heard about your feelings about her baptism but not a single word about how she felt about the service. It honestly sounds like you have a lot of pent up anger that you need to work through. Going to anti-mormon websites to find out about church doctrine is not the way to learn about true doctrine. Those websites twist what is true and good.

Go to the source of all eternal truths and learn for yourself. It is ok to have questions and doubt. LDS members are not blind followers. Don't shut yourself off from the possibility that your anger may be clouding your judgement regarding the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yes people are rude, members and non-members alike. We are all on this planet to learn and grow. I will be praying for you and your family.

Oh and one more thing.... stop lying. It only hurts you. If you don't want to do something just tell them. You have every right to say "I don't feel comfortable with this situation."

ok enough of the lecture. Good luck with your journey.

Mags

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Okay...sweet...answers.

So lets see...

MarginOfError

I mailed my letter to the physical church not knowing where I was really supposed to send it. At that moment I simply looked up the address from Mormon.org, slapped a stamp on the envelope, and dropped it in the post. I was disappointed when it came back a week later with no forwarding address. I have since found the address for the member records in Salt Lake, but nothing has happened yet. I’m seriously considering dropping by tomorrow and hand delivering.

On a side not I appreciate your courtesy and honest answer. Too bad we couldn’t have met before all this happened. Oh well...

Skippy740

I’m done with questions. When I found out some of the really horrible stuff...my head was just spinning. I thought I was going to vomit. Really, I just can’t.

Perhaps I misinterpreted what they meant, but I thought apostasy was to be dealt with by excommunication. I even asked for church court, and I promise you I was going to say what ever it took to make them throw me out. Anyway…

Loudmouth_Mormon

Lawsuit? Yeah. Funny. But I appreciate it.

(Reality time). I did talk to an attorney who said he would send a letter, just a letter, on my behalf asking that they remove my name. However, to his knowledge there were no suits involving the church in my state. Then he proceeded to write down a bunch of zeros on a yellow memo pad, and I passed.

I guess I lie to other members because I live in a dump and drive a Nissan pos, limited addition. I had forgotten how much gossip goes on there.

Soulsearcher

I couldn’t bear sitting on the fence anymore. I tried being a cultural member, but it was killing me inside. I can’t do both. I felt like if I was going to not be a member, then I was going to Not Be A Member.

For some reason I could see the strings extending from the church and all the way to my brain. When I missed church I’d feel guilty. When I missed conference I felt guilty. When my wife bought me a coffee maker on Black Friday (she was benign on this) I used it, and I felt guilty.

tubaloth

No

Eowyn

To quote, “What if you do get your name removed? What if we send that information to Salt Lake, and they cancel your baptism, and suddenly the world ends tomorrow, and somehow you do meet God...and what if you’re wrong?” The rest of the conversation I’m not going to repeat. Yes, there truly is more, but I do not want to repeat it.

MsMagnolia

During my active years I watched as spouses sat in empty pews without their husbands, praying year after year that he would change his mind. Lord knows I did not want to put my wife through that.

“All I saw in your post was I I I…” You’re right. I am being selfish. She wanted to join, go to the temple, and have more children. I just cannot allow that.

There was this story she came home with. You can take this for what ever it’s worth, or say this is a lie too if you want.

Anyway...she calls it the “taco story,” because she worked overnights at a grocery store for a while. The isle she was working on was stocking ethnic foods. She’s not a very religious person, but for some reason she decides she’s going to pray while she filling the space for the El Paso crunchy shells above the Pace Picante sauce. So she prays to God asking how she could be happy. Then (from what she says) a voice enters her head saying, “If you want to be happy you have to be sealed to your husband.” But not just any voice, it was like someone was standing right next to her.

My alarm clock goes off. I wake up, and get ready for work. I hear the car pull up in the drive, and because we’re horrible broke we have to share it. I’m still half asleep and shoveling a bowel of corn flakes. The door flings open and there she is, all excited like she just won a million dollars but no idea how to spend it.

I asked her what happened at work and she repeats the whole incident verbatim.

Pause…”What?!”

“God talked to me, and he said I have to be sealed.”

“No.”

“Yes.”

“Remember last week when you said a box fell off the isle…”

“It hit me on the shoulder.”

“Was there someone on the other isle?”

To which she replied with, “That was the first place I looked.”

I’m thinking to myself, omg ygtbfkm. In all the years I’ve gone that has never happened to me. Not even remotely.

“What do you think it means?”

“Probably nothing.” I lied. I knew what she was talking about. “Maybe you should go to bed.” And forget the whole thing ever happened.

I went to work and threw boxes for the next ten hours because I didn’t go to college. When I arrived home, sore and exhausted, I told her what I thought her experience meant and who to talk to.

The only problem is that dreams, and hallucinations, mean different things to different people. I should have realized this at the start.

We visited the sisters later that week. To my surprise they rewarded her with tears and hugs for an illusion I wished to god would just go away.

The rest of the story you already know.

I’m out. And now that I’m armed with knew knowledge, I’m really out. Printing third letter...right...now….

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Eowyn

To quote, “What if you do get your name removed? What if we send that information to Salt Lake, and they cancel your baptism, and suddenly the world ends tomorrow, and somehow you do meet God...and what if you’re wrong?” The rest of the conversation I’m not going to repeat. Yes, there truly is more, but I do not want to repeat it.

*shrug* If you don't believe, why should you care? Naturally the bishop does believe, and as such he's concerned for your welfare. How terribly awful.

Honestly I think this story is about as real as a $3 bill, but on the chance that you're authentic, I think you should observe LMM's advice and if nothing else figure out why you have such an enormous chip on your shoulder. People try to be nice and you take offense. I don't get that.

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She wanted to join, go to the temple, and have more children. I just cannot allow that.

You....

cannot....

ALLOW....!!?!!!!

Aside from being a self-admitted decietful, lying manipulator- just who are YOU to determine what will be ALLOWED in her journey of faith!?!?

With those arrogant, insufferable, indefensible words, you have cast aside any modicum of patience and understanding I might have extended you.

Your wife is not your property.

She is not your appendage.

And she is not your puppet to be constrained, controlled, or denied ideas and opinions against which you happen to have been indoctrinated.

Had you said that you "could not support her desire", that would've been one thing.

Had you said that you "did not agree with her decision" you'd have been on safe ground.

But that's NOT what you said- and I find the slip to be very troubling indeed.

The bottom line is this: you discounted her story out of hand.

You discounted her desire.

Your discounted her wants and needs because they don't suit YOUR agenda.

Yes, dreams and inspiration mean different things to different people- but you dismissed her desires without even considering them.

The possibility never even crossed your mind that her experience (and I'm not talking about things falling off shelves) might be genuine or real.

You never even considered the possibility that she might be right.

There was no analysis performed, no reason consulted, no thought given.

You simply, reflexively, unthinkingly rejected desires might make her happy, strengthen your marriage, or expand your mutual horizons.

Instead of expressing your concerns in a thoughful manner, you responded instead with mockery and derision, and used propaganda and pre-canned hate to deride her wants, needs, and desires.

Because they aren't what you want.

The rest of the story you already know.

Yes- we know it all too well. Edited by selek
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You say where you work and what you drive and where you live and whether or not you went to college have anything to do with lying and church?

I live in a 900 sq ft home, I drive an extremely old van, my hubby has a high school education,not having yet finished college, when we go to church he wears used suits, sometimes second hand shoes...and he has been in church leadership since the day he got the priesthood. Literally. Church responsibilities have nothing to do with circumstances of living. Church helps people be more like Christ.

If you go to any church someone is eventually going to ask you about your life to start a conversation, they are going to try to get to know you, they are going to invite you to eat something, like, gasp, pie or maybe even chili. Most Christian congregations baptize members in front of the entire congregation.

You are either a horrendous snob or mentally ill. Someone tries to start a conversation with you, offer you dessert, welcome your wife like she is family (because she is) and all of that you turn your nose up at...they are beneath you. I don't know what has happened to you that you take offense at kindness, or how you happened to marry someone that actually likes the idea of spending eternity with someone that treats her like a stray dog.

Her answer to her prayer was to find happiness by being sealed to her husband. Her answer did not say that the husband had to be you. That poor woman, instead of praying in a pew where people love her and care for her, she has to pray in her closet alone and in the dark, ignorant of where to find peace that she is seeking.

The more I think about it, the more I think you are lying all around. No way did that woman get baptized without telling someone she had children. No way that the missionaries did not know she had children. Women are proud of their children. They tell people how cute their kids are, they carry around pictures. You mean to tell me that both of you went to church and didn't take them! yeah right. Bologna. Bologna. Bologna.

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*shrug* If you don't believe, why should you care? Naturally the bishop does believe, and as such he's concerned for your welfare. How terribly awful.

Honestly I think this story is about as real as a $3 bill, but on the chance that you're authentic, I think you should observe LMM's advice and if nothing else figure out why you have such an enormous chip on your shoulder. People try to be nice and you take offense. I don't get that.

I wanted to thank you, because I need the sarcasm right now. I need those heated emotions to push me in the right direction. It's right on the tip of my tongue, and I almost left the number to my former ward. Even if the residing bishop there confirmed everything I said what would I gain?--probably about the same as if I stayed, which is not much. But if you want to PayPal the 3 bucks I'll take it.

I went to the ward clerk's office today. Two older gentleman sitting in there seemed kind of nervous and very disoriented when I asked for the Stake President's address. They kept asking me what I needed the address for, and I replied that I wanted to send an exit letter. I laid one letter on the bishop's desk, but I was too late. The good doctor found his way into surgery for an elderly woman who broke her hip. I grabbed a tithing envelope off the wall next to the old trophy case for correspondence sake and left.

Now it seems I'll be sending three letters: one to the bishop, one to the stake president, and one to member records.

I'm not sure why but that "authentic" thing keeps bugging me. I wonder why? If I'm lying I stand absolutely nothing to gain; I'll be pushed aside just like everyone else. If I'm telling the truth...well then I still get nothing. I wonder what is the greater of two evils: me making up a tale for people I don't know who could care less, or me blocking someone close to me that thought they had a genuine spiritual experience from Heavenly Father, and I flattened it like I hit it with a 5 pound sledge?...

Tell you what, I want to do just that. I want to call me a liar. I want you to say the whole story is a lie. I want you to mock me, and I want to you tell shout out, in bold letters, how bizarre and stupid it is for someone to merely think God would talk to them, least of all, some poor girl making minimum wage. I want you to show how God doesn't talk to anyone, give them messages, tell them things they aren't supposed to know, and the thought of "sealing" is crazy. And when she comes home tomorrow I'm going to turn on the computer and show her what nice people say about her crazy, demented, hallucinations. Please, what ever conscience you're feeling right now, don't let it stop you.

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The problem with your litany is that no one here has questioned her experience.

No one here (save you, yourself) has implied that God does NOT speak to his children.

We have nothing to fear in her reading these posts.

We have nothing to fear in answering her questions, nor in providing our own insights.

No one here has questioned your wife's experiences.

But we have taken note of both your own passive-aggressive hatred and domineering, manipulative tendencies.

Edited by selek
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I wanted to thank you, because I need the sarcasm right now. I need those heated emotions to push me in the right direction.

Ah yes, the victim card.

An attempt to guilt us into playing the game by your rules. Unfortunately, we are under no obligation to play.

You will leave the Church or you will stay- but either choice is yours and yours alone.

You- and you alone- will bear the responsibility for your decision.

That's called "agency"- and no one can deprive you of it.

The decision is yours.

Make it- but don't expect us to jump through hoops to make you feel good about it.

Even if the residing bishop there confirmed everything I said what would I gain?--probably about the same as if I stayed, which is not much.

What could the Bishop confirm? That you lied to him? You've already admitted that.

That you made promises you had no intention of keeping? Again, you admitted as much.

I went to the ward clerk's office today. Two older gentleman sitting in there seemed kind of nervous and very disoriented when I asked for the Stake President's address. They kept asking me what I needed the address for, and I replied that I wanted to send an exit letter. I laid one letter on the bishop's desk, but I was too late. The good doctor found his way into surgery for an elderly woman who broke her hip. I grabbed a tithing envelope off the wall next to the old trophy case for correspondence sake and left.

This statement is, at best, a nonsequitor.

I'm not sure why but that "authentic" thing keeps bugging me. I wonder why? If I'm lying I stand absolutely nothing to gain; I'll be pushed aside just like everyone else. If I'm telling the truth...well then I still get nothing.

On the contrary, you get exactly the same reward as any other tantrum thrower- you become the center of attention.

I wonder what is the greater of two evils: me making up a tale for people I don't know who could care less, or me blocking someone close to me that thought they had a genuine spiritual experience from Heavenly Father, and I flattened it like I hit it with a 5 pound sledge?...

For my money, the latter is the worse of the two evils.

To quote the Apostle Matthew,

" But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matthew 18:6)

I want you to mock me, and I want to you tell shout out, in bold letters, how bizarre and stupid it is for someone to merely think God would talk to them, least of all, some poor girl making minimum wage.

Yes- we know that's what you want- because it allows you to be the center of attention.

Unfortunately, no one here has said any such thing.

We readily accept that your wife might well have received inspiration from the Lord. As a Church and a people who preach that the Heavens are open to the humble and the penitent, we are the LAST people who would suggest that she did not.

I want you to show how God doesn't talk to anyone, give them messages, tell them things they aren't supposed to know, and the thought of "sealing" is crazy.

The problem you're going to have to face is that no one here has alleged any such thing.

We have not.

And when she comes home tomorrow I'm going to turn on the computer and show her what nice people say about her crazy, demented, hallucinations.

Again- we have not done so, no matter how desperately you try to spin it.

On the contrary, we would be delighted to speak with your wife, and discuss spiritual matters with her without you distorting the conversation.

By all means, invite her here and let us speak with her directly.

We always have time and love for the patient, the penitent, the meek, and those who seek the Lord.

Edited by selek
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me blocking someone close to me that thought they had a genuine spiritual experience from Heavenly Father, and I flattened it like I hit it with a 5 pound sledge?...

Tell you what, I want to do just that. I want to call me a liar. I want you to say the whole story is a lie. I want you to mock me, and I want to you tell shout out, in bold letters, how bizarre and stupid it is for someone to merely think God would talk to them, least of all, some poor girl making minimum wage. I want you to show how God doesn't talk to anyone, give them messages, tell them things they aren't supposed to know, and the thought of "sealing" is crazy. And when she comes home tomorrow I'm going to turn on the computer and show her what nice people say about her crazy, demented, hallucinations. Please, what ever conscience you're feeling right now, don't let it stop you.

The only one saying she is crazy is you. The only one saying it is a hallucination is you. I was earning minimum wage when I joined the church and recieved revelation to do so. I said my living situation was less than some with no difference in church standing at all.

I don't think you are telling the whole truth. I know that you are a liar, you have admitted it yourself. You are only on here to look for more reasons to hate. You don't need to look here for that. You will make some up when you need more. You are like a tornado, wanting to suck others into your swirling mess.

And guess what, you can't squash her revelation with anything. You flatter yourself. Nothing can stand between her and the Savior, and that is what bugs you the most. You can have your name removed, but you can't remove her testimony or her prayer, or the fact that she can continue with out you. Ordinance or not, she is a daughter of God and even you can't stop that.

If she exists, if she is what you say she is, but I don't think you are honest, I hope you do show her, I sincerely hope she realizes what situation she is in. Your hate supercedes any faith of hers in your heart. Your hate is stronger than your love for her. It is like a drug that you can't put down.

The saddest thing is, if you had any idea what you are missing you would realize what a monumental waste of time this is.

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Kloud;

Sorry to be rude to you; but, I hear a lot of self pity in your threads.

If you really want to be taken off the roles of the church, don't be afraid to speak to directly to your bishop and then to work up the lines of authority from there. I.E., the stake president, area authority, church offices, etc.

You're facing a lot of antagonism here. For me, your whiny, accusatory statements put me off~Why come here to other LDS people to tell us how awful our belief system is? What response are you expecting to that?

Also, I don't know what doctrine is putting you off. And it seems not to matter as you already seem so bitter and hateful toward the LDS church and it's people. I'm really surprised and curious as to why you waited for your wife to be baptized until you decided to influence her with this so called "awful" doctrine you found? Why did you wait so long to disclose it to her?

For all your whiny accusations against us, you are also being rather manipulative by indirectly blaming all of us for your wanting to leave the church even more for how we've commented to your posts.

I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to leave. I'm sorry for whatever "doctrine" it is you have found that has turned you off to the beautiful truths in the gospel of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints. Yes, honesty is definitely the way to go. Perhaps you feel too powerless to not lie or be manipulative. I don't know.

You can have your records removed from the church. Remember that old primary song? "Try, try, try...."

Edited by Dove
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“Do you have any children?”

“No.” I lied, but it was none of her business.

“Are you a member?”

“Yes.”

“Oh, for how long?”

Quick answer. “I’m new.”

“When did were you baptized?”

Now I need another lie. “Last year.”

“Where at?”

“I don’t remember.”

...

I have been bottling feelings of hatred and resentment until it’s tarry enough to use on my roof. And I had been doing this for years. I have no idea why I went along with the missionary talks, but I wish I didn't. God how I wish I didn’t.

...

During that interview I also made several promises I never intended on keeping like attending elders quorum and reading my scriptures. I went to sacrament twice out of guilt, and I haven’t so much as cracked my scriptures.

Then:

I'm not sure why but that "authentic" thing keeps bugging me. I wonder why? If I'm lying I stand absolutely nothing to gain; I'll be pushed aside just like everyone else. If I'm telling the truth...well then I still get nothing. I wonder what is the greater of two evils: me making up a tale for people I don't know who could care less, or me blocking someone close to me that thought they had a genuine spiritual experience from Heavenly Father, and I flattened it like I hit it with a 5 pound sledge?...

Hi kloud.

Just wanted to say a few things.

* I believe your story. I believe you are feeling genuine anguish expressed in that last paragraph there.

* I was not being sarcastic with my earlier advice. If you want to get people off their rear ends and very motivated to process your exit paperwork, you can threaten legal action. This isn't a mormon thing, this is a 'getting people to do something they don't want to do even though they need to do it' thing.

* I stand by my earlier advice. Your pained desire to just make things all stop, and the pressure you feel to have the right answer for the people who think you are wrong - those will follow you through your life. They'll show up after this mormon thing is resolved, and you're off living the next chapter of your life. Nobody here knows the reasons you lie. I'm guessing you don't know either, and thinking about it causes you pain. Then you lay out your heart and soul for people to see, and someone doesn't believe you, and it causes even more pain. I'll hazzard an armchair psycologist guess here - because the truth is important to you. You want to be an honest person, and be seen as being one.

Tell me - how did you feel after this happened?

I told my wife that I didn’t believe in the church anymore and most of what they taught wasn’t entire accurate with biblical scripture—or at least that’s how I interpret it. Every person is allowed to have their own opinion on what they feel the church does or does not do for them.

Was it tremendous relief that the truth was coming out, followed by tremendous guilt that you believed what you just said, and that you might be making life harder for your wife by saying it?

I don't know the answer here. Through my life, I've tried to hold close to the notion that if I hold fast to what is true, and let the chips fall where they may, that's the best I can do.

Again - I believe that until you resolve all this lying to yourelf and others stuff, it will follow you through your life. As long as you characterize choices as "which is the greater evil", you'll be stuck never having a good choice to pick.

Again - I wish you and your family well.

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I'm going to come from another perspective. I'm inactive and don't really have any faith in the church. I don't consider myself a member of the church but i am one on paper. At the end of the day i've thought about having my name removed but i ask my self why. Yes that means i'm still in the records, but what does that really mean when you don't believe?

i can see why some people think this step is a must, either for closure to one last show of having power, but i don't see the point. To me still being on the membership roll only has as much power as i give it so we only as much about it as we allow ourselves to.

On the chance that what we teach is true, it removes you from being judged by God by Church standards

Also it prevents you from getting visits and also stops some poor EQ President/RS President/Missionaries from having to spend their time trying to find you because you're still listed as a member.

Edited by mnn727
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I’m not angry with the responses I’ve received. On the contrary, I’m grateful for what I’ve been given. It’s often hard to walk out of a relationship on good terms, and as such, it’s equally hard to leave any congregation if there are still lingering emotions filled with positive attachment.

I thought it was interesting—and also a large mistake on my part—for me to try to convey an event as it happened to me, and then hear back that I was possibly making it up? In a way it almost proves to me that the Holy Ghost doesn’t talk to people, else one would believe. But then someone smart would come along and say that because the Holy Ghost does talk to people they know I’m making it all up. Ugh. I grow tired of wagging the dog on this.

My wife wanted to make an account and reply to some of this—to which I said no again. Even if she did chime in someone would say it was actually me. I feel certain that one of the moderators would check the IP, see the messages came from the same address, and I find myself in a paradox.

And I even spent a few moments contemplating sending my spouses number to one of the doubters. That person could call her, ask her to recite the events, and verify it to everyone else. Then I thought, “What’s the worst that could happen?” Another pause. “Nope. Sure as hell not doing that.” I don’t need my wife nagging me “it’s time to get ready for church” while I’m trying to Tivo the game. And then there will be tithing, temple trips, sitting in cramped classes with members playing “pass the manual”, service I hate volunteering for, and scripture study…again. And that’s not even half of it. I didn’t even get into throwing out half my movie collection, and while I’m feeding DVD’s into the shredder I might as well give my computer a clean install. Half of my music collection will get deleted. Then when it’s all said and done I’m back to the point where I started. I will be sitting on the couch in my white shirt and black tie wondering why the church makes me hate myself for being human. I understand this is selfish, and I will never deny it.

I apologize for the whining, that is another pesky emotion humans sometimes exhibit when they don’t get what they want. If there is an afterlife I expect I will see a lot of complaining.

I did attempting to contact my bishop about a year ago and resolve this. What ended up happening was I contacted his secretary who is also the bishop’s little brother. I felt rather humiliated knowing my heart felt messages were being sent to the wrong person, but that isn’t the first time I embarrassed myself nor would it be the last. I was given an appointment that turned into a bargaining session for me to not leave. I’m not very good at making decisions under pressure, and I understand this to be no one’s fault but my own. So I found myself agreeing to stay in the church though in my heart I really wanted to leave. I felt like I was talked into keeping a car though I was still in my 30 day period—some places still do that.

I’ve spent the past, oh I’d say year and a half or so, wanting to find a way out. I apologize for asking here, but it was either here or other places. And those sites also recommended me asking an attorney.

No, my spouse isn’t sitting in a closet somewhere crying her eyes out. That is very, very untrue.

In the end I find myself blaming the church itself. I don’t like the fact that some details, like how to leave the LDS faith, are not open to the public. I wish the church would post the instructions on their homepage—and I did look—so lost members won’t have to petition the public for it. This would also be a good PR moment for the church, and they could so something like a short survey (or an in-depth survey if that person so chooses). I could also imagine this to be a moment for the church to list all of their free services like the gospel app or an addiction recovery page. If I could print off a PDF, mail it in, and get an interview, I wouldn’t have asked here. For some reason I didn’t think of writing my stake president—that was good lookin out.

End thought…

My wife really did pray to God, and she sincerely believes he really did answer her back. I asked her again to tell me what he said, and she told me he said she “would receive many blessings.” So in part I did lie, in that I didn’t correctly give out all the information. I apologize. Funny though, “blessings” sounds more biblical then “happy” and I don’t know what to do with that.

I’m accustomed to people not believing what I say. I do not talk most of the time. I just spend my days doing my job and hating my life for doing it. If I get caught in a lie I think, “Oh well.” Then the one time I tell the truth…like I really told the truth…and no one believes me…why does that make me feel confused? Interesting. I will think on this.

I got the information I was looking for, and I’m going to leave it at that. If anyone else wants to debate they will be doing it with each other or alone. I submit.

I apologize again for any disturbances I may have caused.

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In reading your response, I am reminded of the statement made by Secretary of State Cordell Hull in the movie Tora,Tora,Tora.

"In all my fifty years of public service, I have never seen a document so crowded with infamous falsehoods and distortions, on a scale so huge that I never imagined until today that any government on this planet was capable of uttering them."

My response to your little missive is identical in spirit, if not words, to that by Secretary Hull.

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I’m not angry with the responses I’ve received. On the contrary, I’m grateful for what I’ve been given. It’s often hard to walk out of a relationship on good terms, and as such, it’s equally hard to leave any congregation if there are still lingering emotions filled with positive attachment.

I thought it was interesting—and also a large mistake on my part—for me to try to convey an event as it happened to me, and then hear back that I was possibly making it up? In a way it almost proves to me that the Holy Ghost doesn’t talk to people, else one would believe. But then someone smart would come along and say that because the Holy Ghost does talk to people they know I’m making it all up. Ugh. I grow tired of wagging the dog on this.

My wife wanted to make an account and reply to some of this—to which I said no again. Even if she did chime in someone would say it was actually me. I feel certain that one of the moderators would check the IP, see the messages came from the same address, and I find myself in a paradox.

And I even spent a few moments contemplating sending my spouses number to one of the doubters. That person could call her, ask her to recite the events, and verify it to everyone else. Then I thought, “What’s the worst that could happen?” Another pause. “Nope. Sure as hell not doing that.” I don’t need my wife nagging me “it’s time to get ready for church” while I’m trying to Tivo the game. And then there will be tithing, temple trips, sitting in cramped classes with members playing “pass the manual”, service I hate volunteering for, and scripture study…again. And that’s not even half of it. I didn’t even get into throwing out half my movie collection, and while I’m feeding DVD’s into the shredder I might as well give my computer a clean install. Half of my music collection will get deleted. Then when it’s all said and done I’m back to the point where I started. I will be sitting on the couch in my white shirt and black tie wondering why the church makes me hate myself for being human. I understand this is selfish, and I will never deny it.

I apologize for the whining, that is another pesky emotion humans sometimes exhibit when they don’t get what they want. If there is an afterlife I expect I will see a lot of complaining.

I did attempting to contact my bishop about a year ago and resolve this. What ended up happening was I contacted his secretary who is also the bishop’s little brother. I felt rather humiliated knowing my heart felt messages were being sent to the wrong person, but that isn’t the first time I embarrassed myself nor would it be the last. I was given an appointment that turned into a bargaining session for me to not leave. I’m not very good at making decisions under pressure, and I understand this to be no one’s fault but my own. So I found myself agreeing to stay in the church though in my heart I really wanted to leave. I felt like I was talked into keeping a car though I was still in my 30 day period—some places still do that.

I’ve spent the past, oh I’d say year and a half or so, wanting to find a way out. I apologize for asking here, but it was either here or other places. And those sites also recommended me asking an attorney.

No, my spouse isn’t sitting in a closet somewhere crying her eyes out. That is very, very untrue.

In the end I find myself blaming the church itself. I don’t like the fact that some details, like how to leave the LDS faith, are not open to the public. I wish the church would post the instructions on their homepage—and I did look—so lost members won’t have to petition the public for it. This would also be a good PR moment for the church, and they could so something like a short survey (or an in-depth survey if that person so chooses). I could also imagine this to be a moment for the church to list all of their free services like the gospel app or an addiction recovery page. If I could print off a PDF, mail it in, and get an interview, I wouldn’t have asked here. For some reason I didn’t think of writing my stake president—that was good lookin out.

End thought…

My wife really did pray to God, and she sincerely believes he really did answer her back. I asked her again to tell me what he said, and she told me he said she “would receive many blessings.” So in part I did lie, in that I didn’t correctly give out all the information. I apologize. Funny though, “blessings” sounds more biblical then “happy” and I don’t know what to do with that.

I’m accustomed to people not believing what I say. I do not talk most of the time. I just spend my days doing my job and hating my life for doing it. If I get caught in a lie I think, “Oh well.” Then the one time I tell the truth…like I really told the truth…and no one believes me…why does that make me feel confused? Interesting. I will think on this.

I got the information I was looking for, and I’m going to leave it at that. If anyone else wants to debate they will be doing it with each other or alone. I submit.

I apologize again for any disturbances I may have caused.

Kloud,

I'm going to come in here half-time. And I'll say upfront, I hope you find what you are looking for in life. I hope you find the peace and joy in your life that you lack, however you get to that point, I truly hope you find a lasting peace in your life.

IMO from your words, I don't necessarily see that you have a problem with the Church, I see a problem with God. For whatever reason, you are exuding a lot of anger, bitterness, resentment and while it appears directed at the Church, it is also directed at God. Why do I have a crappy job? Why do I have a crappy life? Why am I on this message board? For whatever reason you are exuding a lot of emotions that are indicative of a very unhappy individual.

To be honest, leaving the Church is not a huge complicated ordeal, it is a very straight-forward process. It requires a letter, signature and not much else. A step below that is a do-not-contact list. Basically you tell the Church, don't bug me.

There is only as much drama into the process as an individual makes into it. If there is a lot of drama in the process, it's because one is injecting drama into it. Bishops, Stake Presidents, etc. are human and as humans will screw up from time to time. So while it is not complicated it is also not a normal process that the ecclesiastical authorities will be intimately familiar with. Unlike what many sites might report, people are not "leaving in droves". As such, I'd ask a little compassion towards those leaders who you have talked to regarding this.

In your journey, if I may offer a few bits of insight that might help you along the way.

#1) Honesty is the best policy, even though it might seem more prudent to not be honest. If you don't feel like answering, just say so. If one is always honest with oneself and with those around, one will never feel like they are always being "talked into" doing something. Plus, one never has to remember the lies, or worry about getting caught. And the most important person to be honest with is yourself- "A Man's got to know his limitations" ;-).

#2) Focus on others happiness vs. your own. Funny thing about life, the more one focuses on making other people close to you happy (spouse, kids, parents, etc) the happier one becomes. There is no use is trying to control what makes someone else happy. If roses make your wife happy but you hate them . . . get her roses. No use on raining on someones parade.

#3) Life comes in waves/cycles, whatever your situation it won't be like this forever. Things get better, things get worse. It's just life. Does God plan all our actions and events? I'll let you answer that question. I personally believe we make thousands of choices everyday that determine to a very large extent where we go in life. And sometimes "crap happens". It just is, nothing you can do about it except take whatever lessons and move on. If you don't like your situation, then either do something to change it or learn to adapt.

#4) The Atonement is more than just a repentance process, it's about us becoming whole, at-one with God and with ourselves.

Whatever ails you in life, may you find the peace, joy, happiness that we all as sons and daughters of a loving God need and deserve.

Edited by yjacket
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To all the people at LDS.net,

I am the wife of Kloud. I have a few things to say:

1) This is the worst gossip web site that I have ever seen. I don’t believe in airing my dirty laundry all over the internet. This is against Biblical scripture.

2) I really think you shouldn’t judge someone by a few words on a blog. Do not judge least; ye shall be judged.

3) I really wish people knew how to answer a question without giving their own opinions to the situation.

I have lived through a lot of things in my life. We do have kids. They currently live with my parents. Our oldest son is severely autistic and my younger son has ADHD. We decided that we wouldn’t bring that up because it is none of your or anyone else’s business. The reason he waited until my baptism was because he had been researching it on the internet and elsewhere. He can’t tell me information that he didn’t know. With the information that we know now, I am thankful that I didn’t become a member. Your church was built on a bunch of lies. Honestly, if people knew the truth about your church, you probably wouldn’t want to go there either.

By the way, the bishop told my husband that he would go to Hell for leaving the church. I don’t know how an organization can lay claim to your salvation. I have been a member of a different church for years and according to them. Your salvation is between you and God not a church, religion, or building. God is the only one that has a right to judge.

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To all the people at LDS.net,

I am the wife of Kloud. I have a few things to say:

1) This is the worst gossip web site that I have ever seen. I don’t believe in airing my dirty laundry all over the internet. This is against Biblical scripture.

Then perhaps you should admonish your husband to avoid doing so.

A number of things stand out in the face of the post above:

1- We have not gossiped. Everything we have said has been forthright and to Kloud's face. We have sought to teach him, to correct him, and to reclaim him. There is no sin or fault in that.

His only response has been increasingly shrill screams of victimhood.

2-

God is the only one that has a right to judge.

Not according to 1 Corinthians 2-5.

Your statement is also in contradiction of John 7:24, Matthew 19:28, Acts 17:31, and Luke 22: 29-30.

The actual admonition is that we do not judge unrighteously.

The worst of which we can be accused is that we took Kloud at his word.

He admitted that he is a habitual liar.

He admitted that he made promises he had no intention of keeping.

He admitted that he was exercising unrighteous dominion and attempting to censor and manipulate his wife.

He admitted that he had ridiculed and dismissed his wife's spiritual experiences.

He admitted that his motives were selfishness, laziness, and indolence.

So how then are we judging him unrighteously?

3-

Your church was built on a bunch of lies.

Name three. I double dare you. Until you can do so- and defend the allegations- you are simply talking through your hat.

Honestly, if people knew the truth about your church, you probably wouldn’t want to go there either.

I DO know the truth- and it has not hurt my testimony one bit. If anything, it has strengthened my testimony.

4-

I don’t know how an organization can lay claim to your salvation.

Clearly, you've had only limited dealings the Catholicism, Lutheranism, Calvinism, and a host of other organized faith.

The notions of non-denominationalism and the "Priesthood of All Believers" are comparatively late inventions in the history of Christianity- and have little or no scriptural support. They serve primarily to satisfy itching ears and to justify apostacy.

5-

I have been a member of a different church for years and according to them. Your salvation is between you and God not a church, religion, or building.

Indeed. The key words are, "according to them". That makes your statement a circular argument, at best.

The Pharisees were just as adamant that "according to them" Christ himself was the vilest of sinners.

As with everything, it depends upon who your sources are.

As for my and my House, we shall serve the Lord.

6- I find one last point very interesting and very revealing: despite your claim that you are Kloud's wife, you haven't yet brought up the one item that is the linch-pin of the controversy: the revelation he claims you received.

For all the bitter and heated accusations you have heaped upon us, you have steered well clear of discussing what your husband says you described as "revelation from God".

When Joseph had his revelation in the Sacred Grove, the first thing he wanted to do was share it.

When Mary and Martha received their visions of the coming Lord and his servant John, they too, could scarcely contain their joy.

Yet here you are: instead of sharing what the Lord has witnessed unto you, you attack us for defending you against his mockery and derision.

Funny that.

Edited by selek
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