Does the church offer pastoral counseling?

[maleahstar]

Hello everyone. I have been trying to get rebaptized into the church since april.

Recently I was diagnosed with depression and my doctors and therapists asked me

to go to my church for pastoral counseling because many of my spiritual problems

are contributing to my depression. They said it is a very important part of my treatment.

I understand that this forum cannot offer medical advice I am only seeking advice for the spiritual aspect of my problem. The doctors and therapists feel ethically it is not appropriate

for them to offer spiritual counsel and I need to see a pastoral counselor alongside with a doctor, therapist, and possible a social worker to assist in my care. It was advised that for proper treatment of my condition that I be allowed to see the leader of my church more than once a month.

I was going to my bishop a few times a month for my spiritual problems and he was ok with it. Then the stake president said that I can no longer see the bishop and that they cannot help me because I have psychiatric problems. My doctors and therapists have suggested finding another church denomination that will comply with my needs, but I really want to stay in the church. I told my stake president what I needed and what my doctors said and he turned me away. I do have professional help, but a huge part of my treatment is missing. The spiritual counseling. It is not enough to just go to church, keep the commandments, say my prayers, and do all the good stuff. Since I lack the family support I need a pastoral counselor or else my treatment cannot be complete. Should I try moving to another stake and possibly get a letter from my doctor explaining what I need them to do? Does anyone have any advice? I am not rebaptized yet and did counsel with my bishop until I was told I wasn't allowed to see him anymore. Please pray for me.

[pam]

Why were you told that you weren't allowed to see your Bishop anymore?

[maleahstar]

The stake president told me I was seeing him too much and taking up too much of my bishop's time and that there are other people that need him too, but the doctors insist I need pastoral counseling 4 times a month at least or else I cannot recover from the spiritual aspect of my depression. It got so bad I had to be hospitalized 3 times in a month.

I am lost on what to do. Been feeling so separated from God for 2 years. It seemed like the stake president and the bishop didn't understand what I needed no matter how much I tried to explain to them what the doctors told me I needed from them.

Edited January 4, 2013 by maleahstar
more info

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Maleahstar,

I am so sorry about your difficulties, both the mental health and the trouble with your Stake President.

I hope what happened with your Stake Pres. was a misunderstanding on his part. Yes, I think a letter from your doctor could be useful to clear up the misunderstanding.

I think the Stake Pres. misunderstood the situation, because Bishops are not trained in counseling, so people that need therapy are refered to LDS Social Services. I am guessing that that is what you Stake Pres. was thinking of.

However, I understand that you situation is different because I have a similar situation. I go to therapy twice a week. My therapist is not LDS. When I was on the verge of becoming inactive in the church because of spiritual issues, I decided to do as John Bytheway suggests and "question my doubts". So I made an appointment with my Bishop. We decided to meet biweekly (twice a month). That was my choice, he would have been willing to meet with me, more, or less.

When we meet I talk to him specifically about spiritual concerns, things that come up at church that hurt me, etc, etc. It has been immensely helpful to me.

So yes, I think this is something that Bishops do. I hope that you will be able to get the help tht you need. Don't stop trying. My situation with my Bishop is good now, but it wasn't always so...I had to do a little work and be a little persistent, patient, and forgiving to help him understand what I need from him.

Yes, I think a letter from your doctor explaining that what you need from the Bishop is spiritual assistance, pastoral help, and not psychiatric counseling, that will help a lot.

P.S. ---I have felt disconnected from God for about the same amount of time you have....I am starting to repair the wound though and I am feeling closer to God again. If you would like to talk about it privately, send me a private message. Just click on my name and from the drop down menu click "private message". I'm not a Bishop, but I am someone that can relate, and possibly be a friend.

Edited January 4, 2013 by LiterateParakeet

[rameumptom]

I suggest you see if there are any LDS counselors in the area. They will be able to give you both spiritual and emotional counseling. It may be that your area has an LDS Family Services, which can direct you to appropriate counseling. It is also possible that there is someone in your ward or stake that the bishop can assign to give you spiritual counseling. I know a few of us in my stake have done that with some members in the past.

[Gramajane]

There are also LDS therapists, and LDS Services can help you find some. :)

I doubt your doctors understand that LDS bishops are not paid a salary to be bishops but that they have to work to support themselves and their families etc, though most Pastors get paid and a house?

[Gramajane]

There are also LDS therapists, and LDS Services can help you find some. :)

I doubt your doctors understand that LDS bishops are not paid a salary to be bishops but that they have to work to support themselves and their families etc, though most Pastors get paid and a house?

[maleahstar]

I called the local branch of lds family services today. I spoke to them about my situation.

They said that they can offer psycholgical counseling, but they cannot offer spiritual/ pastoral counseling. They said only my bishop can do the pastoral counseling. I already have a doctor and getting a new therapist since I am changing insurances. My stake president still won't allow me to see my bishop because they think they are not qualified to help me with my issues, but my doctors and therapists said that i need pastoral counseling alongside my therapy and treatment or else my treatment cannot be complete.. What do I do? Do I try to have a doctor's note explaining to the stake president what I need or find another ward and stake that will offer me what I need? What can I do in this situation. At the moment I am not on good terms with them due to the tension with the misunderstanding. I hope the 3 of us can reconcile and find a way how to fill in this gap. The doctor and therapy is not enough I need a pastoral counselor...

[rameumptom]

Your bishop is not the only one who can offer pastoral counseling. He can assign a member, perhaps your home teacher to do this.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

They said that they can offer psycholgical counseling, but they cannot offer spiritual/ pastoral counseling. They said only my bishop can do the pastoral counseling.

I agree. Therapy is about psychology, not spiritual issues. Besides just because someone is LDS and has a Master's degree does not make them a religious "expert" or someone who has authority to receive inspiration to help you.

I like Rameumptom's suggestion that perhaps your Home Teacher could help out in this regard. I still think meeting with the Bishop is reasonable, but perhaps you could meet wtih the Bishop twice a month and the Home Teacher twice a month.

What do I do? Do I try to have a doctor's note explaining to the stake president what I need or find another ward and stake that will offer me what I need? What can I do in this situation.

Not a note, a phone call would be better. Ask your new therapist to call your Bishop and explain the situation. You will likely have to sign a release of information form. LDS Social Services therapists commonly make contact with the person's Bishop. Or at least, I assume so because when I went there briefly, there was a form they asked me to sign if I wanted to give my therapist permission to talk to my Bishop.

[Dr T]

Tell them your church does not have pastors. It sounds like they are not familiar with LDS religion but the suggestions above could be what they are looking for maybe.

[Guest]

Tell them your church does not have pastors. It sounds like they are not familiar with LDS religion but the suggestions above could be what they are looking for maybe.

The bishop is actually what one would call a pastor over the ward. The Stake President is the pastor over the stake.

[maleahstar]

i really like the adivice of having my therapist being able to communicate with my bishop and having a home teacher to come when the bishop is too busy. If there is a lot of

contention between my stake president, my bishop, and i should i get a fresh start and go to a new ward and stake or try to persist with the ones i already have,? (my current ones are not being yeilding and compliant with my needs) thanks for the advice and support everyone. pple in my local area have not been this supportive i need all the prayers i can get!

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I hesitate to suggest whether you should stay in your current ward/stake or go to a new one. I can certainly understand why you would consider it.

My gut feeling (and I could be wrong) is that you should stay in your current ward for now. You said you had a good relationship with your Bishop, but the Stake Pres. felt you were taking too much of the Bishop's time. I think with some more work and some communication with your therapist....perhaps bringing in a home teacher, can help work out these problems.

My Bishop and I had a rocky beginning too. The first time I ever had an urge to harm myself (cutting) I was in church. I really freaked me out. So I talked to the Bishop during Sunday School. He seemed understanding, he made sure I was in therapy (I was). But then nothing. . .

I just wanted him to follow up, to ask "how are you doing? Are you feeling any better? worse?" Then my husband and I were called in. I thought finally he wanted to see how I was doing. No, he wanted to tell us that our neighbor complained to the missionaries that our yard is messy. (I have 5 kids, and the neighbor doesn't like all the bikes, LOL!) I was devastated. I felt the Bishop was more concerned about my clean yard than about my urges to self-harm.

More time went by with really no contact from him. Gradually I felt a little better and was able to try again and explain to him that I just really needed to know that he cared what happened to me...and that God cared what happened to me. We have a good relationship now, and he has actually become a great help and support...but I really had to work at it.

I think, in his defense, that he thought that once he made sure I was in counseling, that his part was done. Mormons are really good at hands-on service, but not so good at sitting by your side and crying with you. Actually it is an American culture thing, but as a people who have covenanted to bare one another's burdens, we should do better.

I think your Bishop and Stake Pres. might be confused about what you really need from the Bishop. I am sure they are both good men and mean well, but even good men make mistakes, as you and I have both felt and seen.

Hold on. The Lord does love you. I know it is hard to feel that sometimes, I really do know, but I can also tell you from someone who has "been there", that He does.

Things will get better.

[Backroads]

Originally Posted by Dr T View Post

Tell them your church does not have pastors. It sounds like they are not familiar with LDS religion but the suggestions above could be what they are looking for maybe.

The bishop is actually what one would call a pastor over the ward. The Stake President is the pastor over the stake.

A lot of Christian pastors have some training in counseling. anatess is technically correct, but I bet the doctors are thinking of a counseling-trained pastor.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I have been thinking about this thread, and I don't think that the Stake Pres and Bishop, or some of the people here understand what is being requested.

Haven't we all known a youth (or adult) struggling with a sin that meets with the Bishop weekly? It is important to help that person that is willing to change, but needs assistance correct?

But I think what is not clear here, is that alienation from God can come from other means than sin. I don't know Maleahstar's issues, but I can tell you that for me, having repressed memories of abuse come forward brought a lot of shame. Because of the shame I felt I stopped praying, speaking or teaching at church. I have not attended the temple in over two years (though I have had a current temple recommend, and a temple close by). The reason I haven't been to the temple is because it make me feel awful. I know that is likely hard for you to imagine....but the shame, illogical as it was, made me FEEL like the most vile sinner in the temple.

Then there was the anger and pain from the past, and anger and pain in the present as I searched for some solace or relief in the church and found little. At the point I started meeting with my Bishop, I was only active because of my children. And I was barely holding on for them.

When I meet with him, we talk about gospel issues. I have joking called our meetings my Private Gospel Teaching...and yet that is essentially what it has been. He has been inspired to answer my questions and help me work through some issues....just as he would if my problem had occured because of my own sins and not someone elses.

I am at a point now, where I am willing to pray in church again (speak or teach? Hmmm, not so sure aobut that yet). I have been considering going to the temple. I would like to, but given how painful the last two times were, it is not a decision to be made lightly.

My point is I think that Maleahstar needs spiritual help, separate but related to the psychological issues. And I do think this is part of a Bishop's calling--to help members who struggle spiritually. I think a good home teacher could help in such a circumstance, if you had the right person...mine haven't been much help at all.

[J-DawgFluffy]

LDS social services could be a way to go, but unfortunately they use psychologist instead of psychiatrists, so you may end up getting differing advice from them and then from your primary care physician, as well and any psychiatrist you are seeing now. I say get your primary care as well as your current therapist to send your SP a letter explaining that your need is spiritual counseling. However, four times a month is a little much...

[maleahstar]

hi i was receiving pastoral counseling four times a month from my bishop because thats what my therapist asked me to do. the stake president put a halt to my pastoral counseling because i was seeing the bishop too much. i explained to the stake president that i was diagnosed with a mental illness and my therapist said i needed pastoral counseling along with my therapy because i was having spiritual problems. he said i cant do that and he and my bishop cant help me...that i need professional help instead. he also said i cant have contact with the anyone in the church except the stake president because i have mental illness. i have tried to negotiate peacefully with him and he is being stubborn. i was preparing to be baptized and havent been to church since. i am very hurt and angry at what happened. was what he did right? should i file a complaint aganst him??

[Just_A_Guy]

hi i was receiving pastoral counseling four times a month from my bishop because thats what my therapist asked me to do. the stake president put a halt to my pastoral counseling because i was seeing the bishop too much. i explained to the stake president that i was diagnosed with a mental illness and my therapist said i needed pastoral counseling along with my therapy because i was having spiritual problems.

Perhaps your therapist doesn't understand. Mormons have a lay clergy, which means your bishop has a full-time forty (or, more likely, fifty or sixty) hour-per-week job on top of seeing to the spiritual welfare of the the two-hundred-plus members of the congregation. Your bishop has neither the time nor the resources to provide continued "pastoral counseling" to the degree of intensity you have required it, with no end in sight. I suggest you explain the situation to your therapist.

he also said i cant have contact with the anyone in the church except the stake president because i have mental illness.

I'm going to take a guess that you might have misinterpreted what he actually meant.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Your bishop has neither the time nor the resources to provide continued "pastoral counseling" to the degree of intensity you have required it, with no end in sight. I suggest you explain the situation to your therapist.

I suspect there is some misunderstanding going in in Maleahstar's situation. So I don't know what to say about that. . .

But Bishops do meet with people weekly when the situation warrants it. For young men struggling with things young men do. . .for married couples seeking help, for others. . .

I remember a time that I had become depressed (not chemical depression). I was sitting outside on a tree stump trying to glue my son's shoe to make it last longer, when my Bishop drove up. He said I had been on his mind and would I like to come in and speak with him? I did. We met weekly for about six weeks, I guess. I chose to stop because I felt better. I saw a married couple there every week also.

Things were fine for me then for awhile, a couple years later...new Bishop, new Stake, new situation...I found myself on the verge of becoming in-active. I decided to do what John Bytheway says, "question your doubts". I made an appointment with my Bishop to address some of my concerns. I have been meeting with him bi-weekly since and will continue for an undetermined amount of time. The timing was my choice. I could change it too weekly or monthly, if I felt the need. He always assures me that he enjoys meeting with me and to feel free to contact him if I need to.

John Dehlin, from Mormon Stories, in a recent podcast, talked about meeting with his Stake President once a month, to discuss issues he was struggling with. He didn't specify how long, but I got the impression that it was almost a year now and continuing.

My point is, of course, Bishops and Stake Presidents offer "pastoral counseling"...if you define that as I do...counseling peratining to spiritual matters...not just sin but about testimony, or whatever the Bishop/Stake President deems appropriate.

[pam]

I think I'm a bit confused. You mention Bishops and Stake Presidents yet your profile states your religion is other and you speak of pastoral counselings. Someone in the church would not call them pastoral counselings.

[missionary0204]

I think I'm a bit confused. You mention Bishops and Stake Presidents yet your profile states your religion is other and you speak of pastoral counselings. Someone in the church would not call them pastoral counselings.

He did say that he was trying to get rebaptized. Maybe he has had years of experience with other religions or has a minute understanding of the terms commonly used in the LDS faith.

[BrendaM]

It sounds to me as if there is more going on here then we know, or is not being communicated correctly? A Bishop or Stake President are not trained therapists (unless that is their trade). Yes, your Bishop can help you with your spiritual progression, especially as you go through repentance. But that doesn't sound like what's being requested here.

It sounds like your therapist is trying to augment his therapy by you seeing your religious counselor, which you believe to be your Bishop. The Stake President is not in agreement. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that you are not a member. It's still not to me clear as to why, but that may be personal and I understand you may not wish to share.

We should not be speaking against what our Stake Presidents/Bishops counsel. Unless they are doing something illegal or immoral, then we need to prayerfully consider what they suggest.

I'm not sure what your "spiritual problems" are, but it would appear that your time with the LDS Bishop has not met the needs of what you and your therapist consider "pastoral counseling". A Bishop cannot "fix" your relationship with the Lord. Only you can do that and it doesn't happen overnight.

Spritual understanding takes years of scripture reading, prayer and living the way the Savior wants us to live. Only then can we have continuos guidance and direction from the Holy Ghost. Even after years of this we all of periods where we feel separated from our Father in Heaven. That is natural and has nothing to do with depression. Yes, it can make you feel depressed, but that happens with anyone.

I wish you well with continued therapy and possible medication that you may get on track and feel like you again. Good luck

Edited February 11, 2013 by BrendaM

[Just_A_Guy]

I suspect there is some misunderstanding going in in Maleahstar's situation. So I don't know what to say about that. . .

But Bishops do meet with people weekly when the situation warrants it. For young men struggling with things young men do. . .for married couples seeking help, for others. . .

Sure; but the operative phrase in what I wrote was "with no end in sight".

The OP obviously wants me to tell him what a mean, insensitive, irrational, bad bad man his SP is. I'm coming at it from a standpoint of "look, this didn't happen in a vacuum". How did the SP even know that the OP was getting pastoral counseling from the bishop on a weekly basis? If the SP said something to the OP, logic suggests that it's because the bishop said something to the SP . . . which indicates to me that (for reasons we can only guess at) the bishop feels like he's in over his head, but is too "nice" to say it to the OP's face.

I say, cut 'em some slack. Neither of them asked to be doing what they're doing.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[pam]

Well said Brenda.