Sacrament Meeting and little kids.......

[idahommie]

Soooooo, I'm really starting to not like going to sacrament meeting. It seems as though lately the parents of small children need some parenting themselves. One family in particular, loves to either sit in front of, or behind our family. They have a toddler that loves to google eye me daughter(11 yr old) but I can't take the noise other 3 children make. I have started coming in just before the meeting starts and sitting down after them. The WHOLE chapel is filled with families like this. Toddlers that can get to the pedals of the organ, get up and join their parents in the middle of a talk, or program. Walk up and down the isles...... This even happens at a baptism.......

Hard to feel the spirit when you want to grab someone else's kid and remove them from the meeting. What ever happened to common sense, and the quiet rooms that used to be to the side of the chapels????? My bad for feeling the way I do.............

[Guest]

Duck and cover!

[dahlia]

Soooooo, I'm really starting to not like going to sacrament meeting. It seems as though lately the parents of small children need some parenting themselves. One family in particular, loves to either sit in front of, or behind our family. They have a toddler that loves to google eye me daughter(11 yr old) but I can't take the noise other 3 children make. I have started coming in just before the meeting starts and sitting down after them. The WHOLE chapel is filled with families like this. Toddlers that can get to the pedals of the organ, get up and join their parents in the middle of a talk, or program. Walk up and down the isles...... This even happens at a baptism.......

Hard to feel the spirit when you want to grab someone else's kid and remove them from the meeting. What ever happened to common sense, and the quiet rooms that used to be to the side of the chapels????? My bad for feeling the way I do.............

Did you move to my ward? Welcome!

Except for the organ thing, we have toddlers crawling under the pews, walking down the aisles, going up with mom or dad for their talk or prayer, etc. Once again, all I can say is, I thought it was a Mormon thing. This stuff never happened at Mass!

Seriously, some days the noise level is hard to take.

[Bini]

I have an "almost" toddler. She's running around and talking lots. This said, I make an effort to manage my child during sacrament meeting. I do not allow her to crawl under pews, or run amok down the aisles. I feel it is only courteous to remove disruptive children, allowing the opportunity for others to feel the spirit. You can't blame the kids, only the parents.

[rameumptom]

Looks like you are spending your Sacrament focusing on the little problems, rather than on your own spiritual progress. In a perfect world the children would all sit quietly and reverently. But even in this non-perfect world, we are responsible for our own spiritual growth. Learn to tune out the distractions and focus on the podium. When someone speaks, write down what they are saying, or write your own notes on impressions you get from what they are saying. Repeat what they say inside you head, even lip read what they say.

You'll be surprised at how much you'll end up tuning out, and return to spiritual growth in the Sacrament.

[pam]

Sit in the front row pew.

[Vort]

I suspect it's more a "Mormon corridor" thing, as in Mormons who live in Utah, southern Idaho, Nevada, and northern Arizona. When we first married, we were BYU students and started attending the regular Provo city ward (the 439th Ward, I think :)). The people were nice enough, but the children in sacrament meeting were completely out of control. I have never seen anything like it, before or since. Utter pandemonium. Children were literally running up and down the aisles screaming -- during the sacrament meeting and during the sacrament. To say we were appalled would be a vast understatement.

After six weeks, we fled back to a BYU married student ward (BYU 32nd Ward) and enjoyed the ambience for the two remaining years we stayed in Provo.

[Bini]

I appreciate Ram's thoughts.

I want to add that while "tuning out" annoyances is ideal, not everyone is at that point, especially those with struggling testimonies. I was a prime example a couple years ago, as I had been inactive for over a decade and attending church was difficult. It seemed that even the smallest distractions were enough to pull me away from the speaker. It's taken time for me to learn to "tune in" and "tune out" what I need to.

Again, while we cannot control other people, WE can manage our own children to the best of OUR abilities.

[Bini]

Sit in the front row pew.

Yeah right! But really, depends on your ward..

In every ward that I've attended, it seems that people have assigned themselves seats.. My ward isn't as bad as my parents' ward.. People get to church SUPER early (the earliest they're able) and claim their pew. My parents do this and have sat behind the deacons for years now.. The next five rows behind them are also claimed.

[Maureen]

Looks like you are spending your Sacrament focusing on the little problems, rather than on your own spiritual progress....Learn to tune out the distractions and focus on the podium. When someone speaks, write down what they are saying...

Easier said than done. When you can't hear the talk because of noisy distractions, it's hard to write it down.

M.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Maureen

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Ah, I remember those days...wrestling little ones through Sacrament meeting, and then depending on their age--the next two hours. Walking the halls with the little ones, wondering why you bother to come to church at all. . .

I don't miss it.

It's true that some parents could use some parenting training, but where are they going to get it??? We don't teach it at church, they don't teach it in schools. Mostly parents learn by doing and by watching other families....and so it spreads. . .LOL!

[LilyBelle00]

I feel like I need to say something to stand up for some of the parents of young children. We have a four year old boy and an almost two year old girl.

While I know it's true that some parents seem to have no control over their kids or don't seem to mind them acting up, most of us absolutely hate being a bother to you. Sometimes there's not much you can do. My kids are fairly well behaved at home, but during sacrament they can both get pretty rowdy. At home I can give time outs, take toys away, even spankings occasionally. In sacrament meeting the worst I can do is "shhh". Kids are smart and they know when they can get away with things.

If they get really bad, one of us will take them out in the hall. Honestly, I hate doing that though. If you take your kids out every Sunday, when will they ever learn how to act? My four year old is just now learning to sit and be reverent during prayers and the passing of the sacrament, during everything else he is usually on the floor playing with toys. My two year old is trying to learn to whisper because she gets shushed a lot.

All we can do is bring cereal, small toys, and coloring books and then hope and pray for the best.

But do know that if my kids start acting up and being loud, I do care. I am trying not to let everyone see the mortification that I'm feeling inside. You have the luxury of being able to look down on me for having noisy kids, I'm the one who actually has to feel everyone's eyes on me while I'm desperately trying to keep them quiet. There are days (today) when I think to myself "I'll just go home and we'll come back when they are older" and that's not fair to them or me.

[skippy740]

This thread reminded me of:

My brothers and sisters, I begin by sharing an event from a large ward in Provo about 20 years ago. During a sacrament meeting, a little boy made a big disturbance. After several minutes of trying to quiet this noisy three-year-old, the mother desperately handed him to the father, who was seated on the aisle close to the front of the chapel. By this time the noise distracted the speaker and audience, and everyone was very conscious of the parents’ plight. The father’s patience was much shorter than the mother’s. In a few moments he put the little boy over his shoulder, stood up, and started for the back door. Looking back over his father’s shoulder and sensing his determined steps, the little boy became quiet and apprehensive. Just as the father approached the rear door of the chapel, the little fellow reached his arms out toward the stand and shouted, “Bishop, help!”

LDS.org - Ensign Article____

[skippy740]

This thread reminded me of:

My brothers and sisters, I begin by sharing an event from a large ward in Provo about 20 years ago. During a sacrament meeting, a little boy made a big disturbance. After several minutes of trying to quiet this noisy three-year-old, the mother desperately handed him to the father, who was seated on the aisle close to the front of the chapel. By this time the noise distracted the speaker and audience, and everyone was very conscious of the parents’ plight. The father’s patience was much shorter than the mother’s. In a few moments he put the little boy over his shoulder, stood up, and started for the back door. Looking back over his father’s shoulder and sensing his determined steps, the little boy became quiet and apprehensive. Just as the father approached the rear door of the chapel, the little fellow reached his arms out toward the stand and shouted, “Bishop, help!”

LDS.org - Ensign Article____

[pooter1]

i think its rude to not take your child out when they are noisy.Its rude to the other members and its rude to the speaker to try to concentrate.I remember a child doing this at our ward every sunday and one sunday a sister walked up to the mom and said "We can't hear anything take your child out" Maybe not the right thing to do but after that she always took her child out when her child was noisy. I think that young mothers are immune to the noise and can tune it out but they don't remember that us older folk aren't like that.

[MorningStar]

Did you move to my ward? Welcome!

Except for the organ thing, we have toddlers crawling under the pews, walking down the aisles, going up with mom or dad for their talk or prayer, etc. Once again, all I can say is, I thought it was a Mormon thing. This stuff never happened at Mass!

Seriously, some days the noise level is hard to take.

Do Catholics have a nursery during mass? My Lutheran friend's church offers nursery for kids up to age 3 or something.

[MorningStar]

I think there is a reasonable amount of noise and then there is a certain level when the child needs to be taken into an empty classroom for a time-out and then they can choose to go back to the chapel and quietly look at a book or color. It takes a while to train them, but it does get better.

[skippy740]

It grates on me when children are making vocal noises (whining and sustained humming tones) and parents don't even TRY to control their children's behavior. Instead, they enable it and give in to their demanding nature.

I've seen this with one particular family that WAS in the ward... and they moved last month. I hate to say it, but I was relieved when I heard he was moving.

There was another family with young children that were a little unruly, but father was there and was correcting behavior and doing what he could. I can appreciate that.

Of course, I told my children that their behavior was (generally) very good and gave them a hug before taking them to primary.

[Bini]

I appreciate the parents that TRY to be thoughtful and courteous of others, and will remove disruptive children from sacrament meeting. No matter how intent you are on focusing, like Maureen said, if ya can't hear ya can't hear.. I've sat through movies where twits are on their phones texting OR chatting, and despite every ounce of my being to "focus", I just can't. So I approach them and kindly ask that they stop, or take it outside. If they're belligerent about it, I get a cinema personnel to handle it :)

[Guest DeborahC]

Well, I'm old and I guess my age shows because I reared 3 sons alone and they only misbehaved in church one or two times. That was the first and second time.

Upon the misbehavior, we went out into the foyer where they got a pretty good spanking.

When they stopped crying I told them, "Now we will go back in, and if you act up again, we'll come BACK out for another paddling."

It only took once and a stern look for a reminder.

All three sat with their hands folded in their laps or quietly reading or drawing.

None of them now require psychiatric care so I guess the butt-busting didn't harm them permanently.

Sometimes I wish we'd get back to some good old consequences for your actions type of upbringing.

When going OUT of the meeting and running up and down the halls playing is the reward, it's not difficult to see why they don't learn.

[ruthiechan]

Parenting is the most important job we will ever have yet it does not come with a manual.

What most parents do not understand is that you need to tell your children specifically what to do, not shhh, or behave or even be reverent. What does that even mean? Say, "put on your listening ears" or "color quietly".

Skippy's comment about not liking constant noises, I remember going to a restaurant with my husband and inlaws. This little toddler squealed in delight at something while we were walking to our table. My husband said, those parents need to keep their kid quiet. The parents of course heard him because he said it loud enough for them to hear. I dunno if they heard my retort or not but I told my husband, you shouldn't've said that. The little girl was squealing in delight and now if she does it again or anything like it their going to try to keep her quiet and it'll make her cry. My husband shrugged it off and sure enough, that is EXACTLY what happened. Why did it make the child cry? Because she was essentially being told that she was WRONG for expressing happiness. Not exactly the lesson we ought to be teaching our kids eh?

To the OP, I do not know if you are exaggerating. Sometimes kids with walk up the aisle, or want to be with the parent while bearing a testimony or giving a talk. However, usually this is done relatively quietly. Sometimes a parent knows it's better to allow a child to walk up and down the aisle quietly than to force them to sit quietly because the latter part wouldn't last long. Sometimes a child will become loud or cry and the parent knows it won't take long to quiet or comfort the child.

If it is as bad as you are making it out to be, perhaps you can suggest parenting lessons be taught during Sunday School. We have done this in the past, and the Bishop and Relief Society can really promote it. Even then though it won't be perfect.

And even if the seats are "claimed" no seat is claimed forever. Get there early and sit in the front pew. If anyone bothers you about it later, you can laugh because the pew belongs to the Lord not them.

[ruthiechan]

Oh, that incident with my husband happened before we were parents. Later he heard a toddler get hurt in a restaurant after having our daughter and he had sympathy for the kiddo instead of being annoyed.

[applepansy]

I suspect it's more a "Mormon corridor" thing, as in Mormons who live in Utah, southern Idaho, Nevada, and northern Arizona. When we first married, we were BYU students and started attending the regular Provo city ward (the 439th Ward, I think :)). The people were nice enough, but the children in sacrament meeting were completely out of control. I have never seen anything like it, before or since. Utter pandemonium. Children were literally running up and down the aisles screaming -- during the sacrament meeting and during the sacrament. To say we were appalled would be a vast understatement.

After six weeks, we fled back to a BYU married student ward (BYU 32nd Ward) and enjoyed the ambience for the two remaining years we stayed in Provo.

I have lived in the "mormon corridor" (never heard that term before) my whole life and I've never lived in a ward like the OP described.

Addition: My grandson yelled in church today. He knows he'll get ONE warning and then time out in an empty classroom or in the foyer. All it took was one warning. We have four 4-yos in the ward. We try to not all sit together or it gets noisier than we're comfortable with. For some reason the boys like to play on the floor under the pews. <sigh> Anyway... its all about expectations. I've heard talks over the pulpit, usually from Bishops, reprimanding parents in a kind way for their children's unruly behavior. Maybe something on a ward level needs to be done in the OP's ward.

Edited January 7, 2013 by applepansy

[LauraG]

What would Jesus do? How would he handle the moment, and how would he teach with kindness and love afterwards?

With my little ones, I do take them out when they get unruly, but I never let them get down and run/scream in the hallway. A lot of parents make this mistake, and it only encourages the kids to behave badly in sacrament meeting. I can usually find a small private room where I can discipline my child without the observance of others. I call it the "quiet room" and there is nothing exciting/fun about that room. Just some chairs, and sometimes a table. We sit there while the child practices being quiet. When the child has calmed down again, we go back into sacrament meeting, where there are books, crayons, and paper, and other quiet toys.

I avoid snacks for small children during sacrament meeting. It seems that any food during the meeting become a nightmare for me, whether in clean up, or in kids fighting over what one another have to eat. Better to just avoid it, in my opinion. I do have trouble when other families with young children sit near my family, because many families allow lots of snacks, and the children are sometimes very unruly. My children and the children of some other families seem to feed off each other's energy. I try to stay away from these families as much as possible.

By the way, my family is the largest one in the ward, those living at home range from 17 yrs to 20 months. In all my practice over the years, spanking hasn't been an effective teaching tool as much as consistent consequences for actions, and lots of love and praise for proper behavior. This isn't always as easy to do as it is to say, but I can say that when I have spanked, it was out of anger, impatience, and my own limitations on creative ways to handle situations.

Example from last week at church: My 7 yr old son, a very hyperactive little boy, was acting pretty silly during church. Lots of giggling and general unruliness. His brothers were trying to get him to hush, his sisters tried to shush him. My husband was getting noticeably upset and was about to grab him and take him out for some very harsh discipline. I whispered in his ear, "B... I know you love HF, and that you are going to grow up to do great things for God." He started to relax a bit and a sweet smile came over his face. I continued, "One of the great things you can do for God right now, is to learn to sit quietly during church so that you can feel the Holy Spirit, and so others can, too. Can you feel the Holy Spirit, B?" He whispered back, "Yes." I gave him a great big squeeze. a kiss on the head, and he remained calm the rest of the meeting.

[Guest ArchangelKid]

I have been to both a family ward and YSA ward here in NYC. In the family ward, we have toddlers who are so adorable. They do the cutest things, haha. One time, someone's little girl came to me, handed me a yellow crayon and wanted me to color in the sun for her. She was probably like 2 or 3. She wasn't able to really say it, she said something along the lines of "gee-plea" and smiled. It probably took me about 25 seconds to color in the sun, she then went so happy back to her parents to brag about her cool looking sun. That's when I noticed that I kind of got the stink eye from people around me. Apparently, I was the distraction. Out of the two times I have been at a family ward, the toddlers have behaved really well. So I'm kind of shocked that elsewhere, some are playing under pews or running along the isles. I honestly get more distracted by the lateness of a lot members.