Conceal-carry permit frenzy


NeuroTypical
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Do you realize that most Western (Old West/Cowboy) films and Western TV shows exaggerate and are fake? Sure, there was great violence in the old west but not everyone carried a gun around their hip like they do in John Wayne films. And then there is the Rifleman, a nice TV show but he solves all the problems with his rifle! Fake fake fake!

*gasps* Tv shows are fake? Oh my gosh...I'm giving up on tv now.

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Do you realize that most Western (Old West/Cowboy) films and Western TV shows exaggerate and are fake? Sure, there was great violence in the old west but not everyone carried a gun around their hip like they do in John Wayne films. And then there is the Rifleman, a nice TV show but he solves all the problems with his rifle! Fake fake fake!

I'm sorry, what exactly are you trying to communicate here? Is this supposed to be some sort of response to how gun-free zones are horrible ideas? If so, I'm not seeing it.

No really HoosierGuy - the US experiences mass-shootings, where 4 or more people are killed, multiple times a year. This is not fantasy talk from old western movies - this is the reality of living in the United States in the 21st century. No really - just about every single one of those occur in what they call a 'gun free zone' - defined as a building or area where guns are not allowed (as communicated in a sign or policy, or legislated into law). No really, I did actually cite about a dozen of them occuring in schools where guns are not allowed. You can google any of them.

What does this have to do with old western movies?

All this gun talk and arming everyone is going to get more people killed.

Hoosier, your fear was a top response back in the late 1980's, as Florida and other states began allowing conceal-carry permits. Your fear was the subject of much studying and data-gathering and results-presenting. It's been over 20 years. Just about every state allows conceal carry now. Your fears were never realized. Permit holders, compared to their non-permit-holding peer demographic, have lower rates of violent crime, and are less-likely to have some sort of gun-related accident.

Hoosier - your fear is over 20 years old, and have been pretty well disproven for at least 15 years. No, issuing permits and allowing people to defend themselves will NOT get more people killed.

If you disagree, please cite the study that says otherwise. Lots of researchers have been looking for a long time - you think they would have presented something by now.

The last thing I want to to is go to Appleebee's or Texas Roadhouse when half the people there are carrying pistols, pistols designed to kill humans.

Hoosier, what state do you live in? If it's Utah, people have been carrying in restauraunts for decades. I specifically remember carrying at an Applebees back in 1998 when I lived in Utah. In 2010, a quarter of a million Utahns had conceal carry permits.

No really Hoosier, you've been surrounded by law-abiding people, legally carrying concealed handguns, for two decades now. It seems you're hesitant to accept this reality, deflecting it with talk of wild-west movies. Just because you can't see them, doesn't mean they're not there, you know...

Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon
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I will be one of those getting my conceal-carry permit this year. I probably won't be able to get a conceal firearm this year due to cost. I plan on joining the NRA picking up a mossberg 500 for home protection. I plan on taking all the kids thru a gun safety course as well.

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I plan on getting both a CCP and a conceal firearm. I've been meaning to for years, but the issue as with most people has been money. If I have to use my tax refund, I will. I've owned handguns before, so it's not new to me, and I've fired weapons since I was twelve. time for Buddha to get on the ball.

PS. Here in Wyoming it is a state right to carry, open or concealed, so all I need is the weapon. However, having been raised with the respect and caution due any loaded weapon, I'm planning on taking the training classes and opting for the $75 concealed license. Just because you can, doesn't mean you know what you're doing. It applies to cars, aircraft, guns, and any other potentially dangerous device we have made for ourselves. The better trained you are, the safer you will be.

Edited by RipplecutBuddha
adding ps
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I will be one of those getting my conceal-carry permit this year. I probably won't be able to get a conceal firearm this year due to cost. I plan on joining the NRA picking up a mossberg 500 for home protection. I plan on taking all the kids thru a gun safety course as well.

Good for you. I found the CCW course I took a couple of years ago to be very interesting and entertaining.

A little story for those people who are on the fence about getting theirs...

Back in 2011 I wanted to get my concealed carry permit and to get a gun to carry with me. My wife was not happy about this idea as money was a little bit on the tight side. But I felt strongly about it and so she reluctantly agreed.

I signed up to take a class with one of my good friends on a Saturday morning. That afternoon I mailed out all of my paperwork and began the wait for my permit. Even back then, there was quite a large push of people wanting to get their permits. So all in all, I waited about 2 months to get my permit.

Once I had my permit, I went to Gunnison's in Salt Lake City (who treated me very well, by the way and gave me a great deal). I wound up buying an XD 40 and spent a little bit of time at the range learning the ins and outs of it. I was no stranger to firearms at this point, but practice on each of your guns is of utmost importance.

Fast forward a few weeks. I was leaving work at about 5pm on my motorcycle. I have to turn right out of the parking lot and make a U-turn where the median breaks. I stopped for oncoming traffic. A few second later a woman pulled up behind me with a man in the passenger seat. After about 20 seconds of waiting, they honked at me as if I could turn. I shrugged it off and about 10 seconds later they honked at me for a solid 5 seconds straight. I turned, looked at them and put my hand up and shrugged my shoulders because there was nothing I could do about the traffic.

The man then lost his temper and out of the car. I calmly set my kick stand and got of my bike. He started yelling at me for not turning and delaying him, for what, I don't know. In a bit of an irritable tone, I told him that there was oncoming traffic and I wasn't going to risk my well being to avoid inconveniencing him. After this he swung and punched me in the face. I was wearing a full face helmet with the visor up and his fist came through the front. Luckily, the helmet caught the sides and absorbed most of the impact.

Obviously at this point I was pretty fired up because of the adrenaline. He started advancing on me by starting to come around the bike. I don't really know how to fight, so I didn't know what to do. I started to pull up my shirt to go for my hip and told him that if he didn't back off, something very bad was going to happen. I don't think he was really paying attention to what my hands were doing, but the woman in the car saw me and screamed at him to get back in the car. Luckily, he listened, insulted me and walked away. By this time, traffic had cleared, I got on my bike and drove away.

The funniest part about it is that after all of that had gone down, I made my U-turn, looked at the woman and she had the audacity to flip me the bird.

At any rate, I'm glad that the situation didn't escalate, more for my sake than his. I wasn't planning on firing my weapon, but brandishing is legal in Utah if it will diffuse such acts of violence. But I'm also happy that I had the means to defend myself.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I learned a valuable lesson that day. Both that you never know when you might need to defend yourself with that kind of force. But I also learned a lesson on deciding when it is a proper time to take things to such a level. I don't think that was the situation for such action.

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he swung and punched me in the face. I was wearing a full face helmet with the visor up and his fist came through the front. Luckily, the helmet caught the sides and absorbed most of the impact.

I'm glad you were able to stop the assault CopenKagen. I see you second guessing your decision to employ your firearm, and maybe you're right - I don't know. I'm just thinking that someone worked up enough to punch someone in the face through their helmet in the middle of traffic, is worked up enough to try to seriously injure or kill.

Anyway, they tell me that tens of thousands of assaults and other crimes are stopped every year with firearms - your story is a fine example of how it works.

I'm glad nobody was hurt.

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I've carried a sidearm for the better part fourteen years, initially as a part of my job. Once I changed careers I lost the ability to legally carry concealed here in Illinois where I live. I've got a non-resident permit which covers me when I leave my home state, but here around town I am forced to rely on an overworked and understaffed police force to hopefully be able to respond before someone gets hurt or killed.

For that very reason I do 99% of my shopping across the river in Missouri where I can legally carry my weapon and defend myself if and when things go bad. I'll be the very first person to say that not everyone should be carry a weapon. With carrying a weapon comes a tremendous amount of responsibility and liability. Most CCW holds don't practice near enough in realistic scenarios, not just when to shoot but how to keep control of your weapon in a situation where you can't shoot. I'd rather see someone learn to defend themselves with their bare hands before giving them a weapon. You don't need to be a black belt but at least know where and how to hit to disable or subdue an attacker. It's also good to know how to talk your way out of a bad situation, or better yet to just avoid one altogether.

Things happen that are unexpected, ask any officer who has been on the street for more than a week. They will tell you people are unpredictable, you have to be prepared for anything. The statement was made about arming teachers, personally I'm not against it. But I don't think we can really force it on the teachers either, teachers aren't cops and they aren't soldiers. In the public schools I attended growing up things were much more conservative than they are now, I wouldn't have hesitated to arm the teachers I grew up with. But things are different now, and not in a good way especially here in the Socialist Republic of the State of Illinois.

I would encourage anyone interested in self defense to get their CCW but take as many courses and classes as you can afford. Learn to defend yourself any way you can, and pray that you never have to.

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I will be one of those getting my conceal-carry permit this year. I probably won't be able to get a conceal firearm this year due to cost. I plan on joining the NRA picking up a mossberg 500 for home protection. I plan on taking all the kids thru a gun safety course as well.

It's good you/kids are taking a safety course. But please don't join the NRA. The NRA is a hate group.

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It's good you/kids are taking a safety course. But please don't join the NRA. The NRA is a hate group.

Darn. I wish you had said something before my wife took the NRA self-defense in the home course. That must be why she always throws plates at me now...

Anyway - hey HoosierGuy - are you willing to address my response to your post about the wild west?

Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon
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Not all the members of the NRA are radicals. There are plenty of good law abiding citizens. But the NRA does pull in the radicals. You would think they would want to protect their own law abiding citizen members by promoting good good laws that keep guns out of the hands of crazy people. Instead they seem to want no laws when it comes to guns.

It really looks like the NRA is nothing but a front for the gun and ammo manufacturers. Hopefully the states will go after them the way they went after the tobacco companies.

As for who does the NRA hate? Did you see that video of that guy in Tennessee who runs a famous shooting school? If you look at his eyes, he's got a psychotic look about him. Scary.

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If it makes you feel better, get your gun license and join the NRA. I do think, thankfully, you might be outnumbered by the east and west coast people/states who do want good gun laws. That governor of New York is awesome.

I am thinking of a hate group...and it isn't the NRA...starts with a D. "Good gun laws"????? Applauding someone taking away freedom is so ignorant. Why oh why must law abiding citizens be forced to give up their constitutionally protected rights because of the few that go rogue or because of sniveling whiners that lap up everything the government does as though it could not possibly be a bad thing?

Incidentally...I bought a new gun today. A sweet Sig Sauer 9mm.....15 round mag plus 1 in the chamber.

Edited by bytor2112
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For the record the NRA, in these most recent rounds of discussions with the White House, came away stating that all current gun laws need better enforcement, especially background checks.

The NRA isn't opposed to reasonable gun laws. Guns are dangerous weapons when in the wrong hands, and only a fool would argue that every living human has a right to own one. The NRA has never argued for such a position. The NRA does, however, strongly oppose unnecessarily intrusive and restrictive gun laws placed upon law-abiding citizens in reaction to criminal action. Criminals, by very definition, do not obey laws. New laws won't change that. It will merely give them more laws to ignore.

The 'new laws'?

Assault weapons ban- Clinton tried this years ago. His own administration admitted it had no measurable effect on crime.

Limited clip size- See above

Doctors to ask patients if there are firearms in their home- If you don't find this unnecessarily intrusive, there's not much else I can say.

Oh, besides 23 other executive orders Obama wants to sign off on....

Edited by RipplecutBuddha
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Guest DeborahC

Where I grew up, all the teenage boys had gun racks in the back windows of their pickup. The racks had a rifle or shotgun on it. In my senior prom photo, there are guns on the wall behind me. I'll post it in my profile. I got my first rifle at about age 8. We all had guns by age 12 - all my friends. Nobody went around shooting up schools (there WERE no malls!) .

This gun violence problem, in my opinion, has NOTHING to do with the tool (guns) but with the mental instability and desensitization to violence of people. We do NOT need any laws regulating guns. Instead, spend the money on mental health - we need mental institutions re-opened, we need the courts to stop releasing dangerous people onto the streets, and we need people to begin teaching respect for other humans to their children. If we need to ban anything, it's movies and video games that show people's heads getting blown off and humans getting sawed in half with bullets, which science has shown damages the psyche of children. My gosh, it would damage anyone! We're not meant to watch such things!

Last night I watched a show on television (I regretted it when it came time to sleep!) It was a documentary about two men who met in prison, then made plans for when they got out to kidnap, torture, rape, and murder teenage girls of the ages from 13 to 17. They did this. They eventually were captured and put in jail. This was in the 1970's. The man who did these horrible things was up for release in 2008. I'm not sure if he WAS released, but who in the world would release an animal like this and not believe he would kill again? They had taped their torture sessions and the jury members, both male and female, were coming out into the hall, crying, unable to listen, it was so horrid. And the guy was only given 30 years??? It was a plea bargain deal. THAT is one of the problems... letting violent criminals and the violent mentally ill back out on the streets.

The factoids about how many people are killed with guns are silly.

I mean, a heck of a lot more people are killed by automobiles but we don't ban them?

I'm absolutely 100% against any ban on any gun.

It's not the answer.

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Gun buybacks are usually not a good thing. First they're using my tax money to pay for it, and I have a problem with that, but they also offer a no questions asked way to dispose of a gun. While it can't be proven it is almost a forgone conclusion that a number of crime guns have been disposed of at such an event. There's also the problem of older people having no idea what they have turning in a $10,000 gun for $50.

Why is something that can't be proven a foregone conclusion? :eek:

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Because if the bought guns are not examined or tied to the people who bring them in, it's an obvious way to dispose of a weapon used in criminal activity.

That is a reasonable guess on anyone's part, but if there is no proof then it's just a guess.

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That is a reasonable guess on anyone's part, but if there is no proof then it's just a guess.

In the same sense that it's just a guess that some people kill their spouse and then hide the body so that it's never found. You may not have proof of it in a particular case, but that it happens is pretty much a foregone conclusion. You may label it as a guess if you wish, but reasonable people will recognize it as an obvious truth, however unproven you may insist it is.

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I drew my weapon many times as a police officer. Never had to as a concealed weapon permit holder. Have carried for over ten years.

I do not want to be a victim or watch someone else be one while I sit on my hands and wish I had a weapon with me.

If I were in a bank and a bank robbery was going on I would be the best witness there is. Until they started shooting people. Then I would have to assess the situation and take action, if possible.

It is not simple nor cut and dried as some would have you believe.

Ben Raines

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