Conceal-carry permit frenzy


NeuroTypical
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ben Raines, since I work in a bank, I appreciate that. :)

I don't really know what side I'm on regarding this topic. Guns make me super nervous. The thought of having a gun in my house makes me sick to my stomach. Of course, the thought of an intruder coming into my home with the intent to hurt my family makes me feel even worse. There's no good solution for me, I guess.

I do think that the idea of mature, responsible, level headed people having guns is a good idea. Unfortunately, those people won't be the only one's carrying. Years ago a friend of my husband's decided to get a gun and his license to carry a concealed weapon. This guy should not have any type of weapon. When he was waiting on his permit or the class or something, him and another friend went out with my husband and I for a game of mini golf. Afterwards we stopped at Sonic for late snack. The car next to us had a pretty blond girl in the passenger seat and the two single guys in our car were sort of checking her out. The guy in the car with her was a black man and after he gave the guys a dirty look, they moved their attention elsewhere. We live in a rural Missouri town with a lot of prejudice. That car and us ended up leaving at the same time, them in front of us. My husband made a joke about the guy probably thinking that we were following them. As (bad) luck would have it, the car ended up turning on the old empty hwy that we needed to take. Again my husband said that he hoped they didn't think we were following them. After a few minutes, the car in front of us slammed on his brakes and the guy got out and started walking towards our car with his hands thrown up and yelling something. It was very scary. My husband put our car in reverse quickly and yelled out our window that we were just trying to get home. The other guy got back in his car and sped off. We sat there for a couple of seconds and the friend who was getting the permit stupidly said "too bad I didn't have my gun". Can you imagine how bad it could have been if he would have pulled out a gun? The poor other guy was probably scared out of his mind thinking that a car full of white guys were following him and his girlfriend!

Anyway, sorry for the long story but that's something I'm afraid of. I do think that most people with their permits are probably smarter than that guy. I worry about the people who just want to look tough, or the one's who will lose their cool.

I do have a question for people with young children and guns. That's one of the biggest reasons I can't imagine having a gun in my house. Where do you put your gun so that it's safe from the kids? If it's locked up somewhere, is it really going to help you against an intruder? For instance, I've always heard that you're supposed to lock it up and put the key someplace else. So if someone has broken into your house, are you really going to be able to run from room to room getting your keys, go back to the gun box, unlock it, load it, etc? That's really an honest question I have. My husband and I talked about getting a gun and that was one of the deciding factors against it, because we figured it wasn't really practical for protection if it had to be locked up.

Edited by LilyBelle00
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 165
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Where do you put your gun so that it's safe from the kids? If it's locked up somewhere, is it really going to help you against an intruder? For instance, I've always heard that you're supposed to lock it up and put the key someplace else. So if someone has broken into your house, are you really going to be able to run from room to room getting your keys, go back to the gun box, unlock it, load it, etc?

I have two girls. I do everything I can to have my gun only in one of two places - either locked away in our combination-lock gun safe, or safely strapped to me in it's holster. A keyed safe isn't a good idea in my opinion - kids will find the key.

My wife and I have exposed our kids to guns from a young age. They've been allowed to handle them, I've answered every question they have. I got them a little pink .22 single shot rifle, and told them I'd take them shooting as soon as they could safely operate it. It took a year or two before they were both ready, then I took them both separately, and we had a fun afternoon picnic of learning safe handling and plinking at cans.

Lily, just a thought, but if you ever tire of living with such fear of guns, you could probably get rid of that fear if you learned about them from a responsible knowledgeable person, and learned to safely handle one. Not sure what state you're in, but I'm guessing you could probably find an NRA first-time shooter class pretty easily. You wouldn't need to buy one or become a gun-nut like me or anything - I'm just making the suggestion as a way of getting over your upset stomach and whatnot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, thank you. I've often thought about doing something like that. The strange thing is that I've shot rifles before and I've even practiced with the JROTC shooting team when I was in high school. It's just handguns that make me nervous.

My family owns guns. I'm pretty sure that my mom has a permit and my dad has always had guns. When I see people handling those little handguns though, my heart speeds up.

This is my home protection device.

Posted Image

Her name is Buttercup. Uh...I mean.. Killer.

Edited by LilyBelle00
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both my parents were hunters at a young age. It isn't uncommon here in Wyoming. Point of fact, I was raised around hunting rifles. My parents didn't bother buying ammunition until the start of sighting-in-season, and they usually just got a box of 30.06 and .243 for the two hunting rifles. We didn't have handguns in the home until I bought a Ruger redhawk .44 mag (excellent gun btw). By that time everyone in the home (there were seven of us kids) knew that the guns were not toys, but that when mom or dad were home we could look at them and such if we asked. Otherwise they were off limits.

Nine people in the home with a 15 year difference between oldest and youngest child...not one incident of accidental firing or gun-related injuries the entire time we lived at home.

When respect and discipline are a regular part of the home atmosphere, guns can be very safe in the home. When children are disciplined in their behavior and are consistent in their respect for their parents, warnings and cautions are usually heeded.

Of course there are horrible exceptions that could be likely cited. However in nearly every study I've seen, when children who are raised around firearms are placed in a room with children who are shielded from firearms, and both are exposed to a real handgun in the room, the children who are raised with firearms react appropriately and try to get an adult to come get the gun. Those children who haven't been exposed to firearms tend to try and play with the weapon.

What that teaches me, is that if you have children and you want firearms in the home, educate your children early on, and they'll stick to it. Take them with you when you go shooting so they can see what damage a real weapon can do, then remind them that you don't want them to get hurt, so they need to stay away from the guns unless mom or dad are in the room.

This is the exact process that was used on my family by my parents. It worked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes I think I should not post. This may be one such post. As a youth I was raised hunting. I was taught at a young age how to use many different kinds of weapons. Through most of my hunting life I preferred to hunt with a bow. One time, as a deacon we were given an assignment to guard various equipment being used in the set up of a large outdoor pageant in our community. We were to sleep at the outdoor arena to guard it. We thought guarding meant that we should be armed - and we were armed to the teeth. Good thing no one tried anything while we were guarding the equipment thinking it would be easy to take stuff form kids.

Later as a teenager there was a serial rapist in our community. As youth, my friends and I thought it part of our responsibility to help keep our community safe. We fancied ourselves as expert hunters and decided we would hunt the rapist. We decided our weapon of choice would be the bow and arrow. I also had a well trained hunting dog. Long story short - we captured - brought down (wounded) the rapist. You cannot believe the problems this caused.

I have served my time in the military. At this point of my life I have mixed feelings about guns. I do not like to even target practice anymore. I do not like to even think about such things. I do not trust myself - not because of what I might not be able to do but because of what I fear that I would do. My biggest fear is that society is losing respect for life and that we as common citizens may be called upon to defend ourselves. I pray this never happens. It pains me the even the police must use deadly force to protect.

As thing are currently unfolding, I believe every citizen should be trained to use weapons and deadly force - even grade school children. But I pray that such training never come into play - but I believe that we are on a course that such training will become necessary and part of emergency preparedness.

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a new sportsman's club that started up not too far from me. There is some kind of club/meeting house on a big pond for gun fans/sportsmen. They have some signs up along the highway and I pass them every time I go by - almost once or more a day. Anyway, one of their signs has the word "Utah" in it. "Utah Course" or something. I've always wondered what in the world that sign was all about.

Now I know what it's all about: Utah Non Resident Concealed Firearm Permit Course. I think I have this right - Utah will issue a gun permit to non-residents for any gun! You can take a four or six hour class in your own state, get qualified, and then send in the application to Utah and they will send you a permit to carry that is recognized in many states.

Wow. I'm shocked Utah is allowed to get away with this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a new sportsman's club that started up not too far from me. There is some kind of club/meeting house on a big pond for gun fans/sportsmen. They have some signs up along the highway and I pass them every time I go by - almost once or more a day. Anyway, one of their signs has the word "Utah" in it. "Utah Course" or something. I've always wondered what in the world that sign was all about.

Now I know what it's all about: Utah Non Resident Concealed Firearm Permit Course. I think I have this right - Utah will issue a gun permit to non-residents for any gun! You can take a four or six hour class in your own state, get qualified, and then send in the application to Utah and they will send you a permit to carry that is recognized in many states.

Wow. I'm shocked Utah is allowed to get away with this.

Let's hear it for state's rights. After all, if Colorado, California and Oregon can legalize Marijuana and the Feds say they won't challenge it, what can't the states write into law anymore?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a new sportsman's club that started up not too far from me. There is some kind of club/meeting house on a big pond for gun fans/sportsmen. They have some signs up along the highway and I pass them every time I go by - almost once or more a day. Anyway, one of their signs has the word "Utah" in it. "Utah Course" or something. I've always wondered what in the world that sign was all about.

Now I know what it's all about: Utah Non Resident Concealed Firearm Permit Course. I think I have this right - Utah will issue a gun permit to non-residents for any gun! You can take a four or six hour class in your own state, get qualified, and then send in the application to Utah and they will send you a permit to carry that is recognized in many states.

Wow. I'm shocked Utah is allowed to get away with this.

Why? It isn't that unusual.

Most states will do this or something similar. In the vast majority of states, there is no particular permit for just owning a gun, only carrying concealed. Most states have no form of gun registration, many (Idaho for sure, but several others as well) have specific prohibitions about gun registration.

Utah and Florida have the most desirable concealed weapons licenses, being recognized in more states than any other permits. They're both recognized by the same number of states, but each has a couple that the other doesn't.

All told 40 states in the U.S. have "shall issue" concealed carry, meaning that if you meet certain objective criteria, the state has no choice but to issue you a permit. It is legal in 49 states for at least certain non-law enforcement people to carry a concealed weapon, and the ONLY state to have such a gun ban, Illinois, had its gun ban struck down recently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's hear it for state's rights. After all, if Colorado, California and Oregon can legalize Marijuana and the Feds say they won't challenge it, what can't the states write into law anymore?

OK, point taken. I'm for the legalization and heavy taxing of Marijuana (at least for a while to see how society handles it). So I can see the point of Utah's non-resident license.

Just to make it clear - I'm not against guns (have many, want more) and I'm not against getting a license (family members have license, I've long considered getting one). But we need to get a license for the right reasons.

Time Magazine has a good article and what your brain does when you get into a gun fight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Time Magazine has a good article and what your brain does when you get into a gun fight.

Still waiting for Time Magazine's article on what your brain does when you get robbed, mugged, raped, or murdered because your government deprived you of any meaningful means of self-protection. I'm sure it will be great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I know what it's all about: Utah Non Resident Concealed Firearm Permit Course. I think I have this right - Utah will issue a gun permit to non-residents for any gun!

Well, it's a conceal-carry firearms permit, not a "gun permit". And no, it's not any gun - only handguns that are legal (no full-auto machine guns, no sawed-off shotguns, etc.) And no, you don't get a carry permit for a gun, you get a permit for a person.

You can take a four or six hour class in your own state, get qualified, and then send in the application to Utah and they will send you a permit to carry that is recognized in many states.

Yes. It's sort of a beefed-up reciprocity law. If you live in California and can't carry legally, but you travel extensively and want to carry where it's legal, you get a Utah permit that makes it legal. What's the problem? I know a few truckers and traveling sales reps and whatnot who are happy these programs are in place.

I've idly thought of getting a UT permit, even though I live in CO. But there's not much point of me doing so, because the list of states that recognize my CO permit, are pretty much the same states that recognize a UT permit.

Wow. I'm shocked Utah is allowed to get away with this.

[Picturing hoardes of armed drunk cowboys from Wyoming lined up at the state border, just waiting to pour into your neighborhood? Law-abiding enough to take training courses and pay fees and get fingerprinted, but law-breaking enough to bring mayhem and horribleness to UT.]

Time Magazine has a good article and what your brain does when you get into a gun fight.

Col. Cooper has better information. Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been doing some heavy research into handguns. What do I find from my research? One of the most popular handgun makers, GLOCK, doesn't put external safeties on their handguns! What kind of neanderthal thinking is that? NO SAFETY on a gun! Yeah, I know about the trigger safety. But that is it! And all the GlOCK fans say the same thing - the safety is in peoples heads!

Look on other forums about GLOCKS. They talk about people accidentally shooting themselves and others say - The safety is in the shooters head, keep your finger off the trigger, it was the shooters fault!

Wow. So we not only have a gun craze in this country but a craze to buy handguns with no safety and more easy to shoot oneself. Totally bizarre.

Those GLOCKs are pure murder weapons and I would never own one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your research leaves a little to be desired, HG. Glocks have three different safties. You mentioned the trigger safety, there is also the firing pin safety and the "drop safety" where the trigger bar stays guided along the safety ramp that makes firing impossible unless something is pulling the trigger.

Your assumptions about what makes a gun safe also needs some work. External safeties, the little switches that say "safe" and "fire", are only as useful as a shooter's head can make it.

But if you're right, I'm sure you'll have no problem finding the study that says Glocks are involved in more accidental shootings per 1000 than other handguns. Since you're doing all this heavy research and all. Would you mind posting the link when you find it? Both my wife and I own Glocks. I also did a bit of research too once, and I gained the opinion that they're among some of the safest, highest quality firearms on the planet. I'd sure like to know if that's not the case, but I need more than a bunch of exclamation points and accusations of neanderthal gunsmithing by some random guy on the internet.

They talk about people accidentally shooting themselves and others say - The safety is in the shooters head, keep your finger off the trigger, it was the shooters fault!

Perhaps you could educate us here - when someone accidentally shoots themselves with something that isn't a Glock, who's fault is it? Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been doing some heavy research into handguns. What do I find from my research? One of the most popular handgun makers, GLOCK, doesn't put external safeties on their handguns! What kind of neanderthal thinking is that? NO SAFETY on a gun! Yeah, I know about the trigger safety. But that is it! And all the GlOCK fans say the same thing - the safety is in peoples heads!

Look on other forums about GLOCKS. They talk about people accidentally shooting themselves and others say - The safety is in the shooters head, keep your finger off the trigger, it was the shooters fault!

Wow. So we not only have a gun craze in this country but a craze to buy handguns with no safety and more easy to shoot oneself. Totally bizarre.

Those GLOCKs are pure murder weapons and I would never own one.

Oh wait till mirkwood sees this one. :eek:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your research leaves a little to be desired, HG. Glocks have three different safties. You mentioned the trigger safety, there is also the firing pin safety and the "drop safety" where the trigger bar stays guided along the safety ramp that makes firing impossible unless something is pulling the trigger.

Your assumptions about what makes a gun safe also needs some work. External safeties, the little switches that say "safe" and "fire", are only as useful as a shooter's head can make it.

That's the same stuff I read on all the different gun forums. Almost word for word. I can't believe people actually defend these guns like they do. There is not THREE safeties on the gun like you and others say. There is only the little trigger safety that is on the trigger. Accidentally pull the trigger when you don't want to shoot it and what happens? It goes off! Yes, I know about the firing pin and drop safety, but it all leads back to the trigger safety and that trigger safety does not stop someone from accidentally pulling the trigger.

Whatever you or your wife does, always, and I mean ALWAYS, assume that GLOCK is loaded. And don't shove it in your pants pocket and don't let your wife shove it in her purse. They are far too easy to discharge.

Look up "GLOCK leg" to learn more about accident discharges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hidden

Hey, lay off of HG. Didn't you see? He's been doing RESEARCH on this! And not just any research -- HEAVY research! The guy is a veritable font of knowledge! Your pathetic attempts to discredit his heavy research do not merit response or even mention, which is why I'm not mentioning them.

Link to comment

Hi Hoosier!

Just wondering - could you answer my question?

They talk about people accidentally shooting themselves and others say - The safety is in the shooters head, keep your finger off the trigger, it was the shooters fault!

Perhaps you could educate us here - when someone accidentally shoots themselves with something that isn't a Glock, who's fault is it?
Also, I'd like to ask you again - if Glocks are so much more unsafe than other handguns, you think someone would have noticed by now. Please give us a link to the study. You know - the one that tracks gun accidents and has noticed that Glocks have more than their share?

There is not THREE safeties on the gun like you and others say.

...

Yes, I know about the firing pin and drop safety, but it all leads back to the trigger safety and that trigger safety does not stop someone from accidentally pulling the trigger.

So, yes, there are three safeties, but there's only one safety? You're not making any sense, HoosierGuy. Mormons aren't trinitarians, even when it comes to guns, as far as I know. 1+1+1 does not equal 1.

Accidentally pull the trigger when you don't want to shoot it and what happens? It goes off!

You mean just like every other single gun out there that doesn't have the safety on?

Whatever you or your wife does, always, and I mean ALWAYS, assume that GLOCK is loaded.

You mean just like every other handgun on the face of the planet? Maybe I'm missing something - please tell me which kind of handgun it's ok to treat as unloaded.

And don't shove it in your pants pocket and don't let your wife shove it in her purse. They are far too easy to discharge.

I think you've finally arrived at a valid point. If you have a gun that goes bang when you do something, you should make sure that something doesn't happen by accident. It's called being responsible. And you need to be responsible around guns - know how they work - how to operate them safely - how to handle them safely. Yes, if you have a round chambered, sticking any handgun in your pocket is a dumb idea - safety or not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Hoosier!

Just wondering - could you answer my question?

Also, I'd like to ask you again - if Glocks are so much more unsafe than other handguns, you think someone would have noticed by now. Please give us a link to the study. You know - the one that tracks gun accidents and has noticed that Glocks have more than their share?

"...for instance, the Glock lacks an external safety mechanism; its “trigger safety” is released by merely pulling the trigger, a rarity with semiautomatics and the cause of many self-inflicted gunshot wounds among police officers who recklessly drew their new weapons — Congress convened hearings on the Glock, and several municipalities banned the gun."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/books/review/glock-the-rise-of-americas-gun-by-paul-m-barrett-book-review.html?_r=0

Some more Info: Glock Safety Issues Raised Concerns « Positive LEO

Edited by HoosierGuy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry HG, was your last post meant to be a response to my question? I asked for the study to back up your claim that glocks are more prone to accidental discharge than other guns. You replied with an unsubstantiated claim in a article written by a fearful CUNY writer, and a link to an anti-business slanted opinion piece. One would think that if the data you're looking for really existed, it would have appeared in one of those two links, but it doesn't.

I'm starting to think that all your outrage and fretting is based on something other than a realistic concern.

Also, there's a member of this forum who has had professional dealings with the armed security that guards the Prophet of our church. Do you know what brand of handgun he tells us they carry? I don't think you'll like the answer...

Finally, it would be nice if you could respond to my other questions:

Accidentally pull the trigger when you don't want to shoot it and what happens? It goes off!

You mean just like every other single gun out there that doesn't have the safety on?

Whatever you or your wife does, always, and I mean ALWAYS, assume that GLOCK is loaded.

You mean just like every other handgun on the face of the planet? Maybe I'm missing something - please tell me which kind of handgun it's ok to treat as unloaded.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's look at this from a business point of view. If I'm a firearms manufacturer, I want to be the top dog in my class of weapons. To do that, my product has to be unique, safe, reliable, and durable. If I fail in any of those areas, I won't be where I want.

For every firearms company out there, safety is a serious concern, if not the very first one. No gun manufacturer wants to put out an unsafe gun. To do so, and leave it on the market would be a death sentence for that company. Consider the ar-15 when it first came out in the Vietnam war. It had serious issues regarding safety. A thorough re-design solved the problems, and now it's one of the most popular semi-automatic rifle platforms ever made.

Glock, like any other company, has had issues here and there with their designs, but they have always been quick to identify, repair, and eliminate the problems, especially when it comes to safety. I feel if Glock handguns were as bad as some have tried to indicate they are, the company would be the center of not only several national lawsuits, but criminal prosecution, and even potential collapse. They've been a major player in their industry from the beginning, in part because of their high attention to safety. They were the first to even design internal safetys in order to prevent unintentional firing of the weapon because, as has been stated earlier, thumb safetys only work if you use them. the internal safetys work all the time. Now, several gun makers use the same ideas. I just don't see how any of the arguments I've read should lead one to conclude that glock guns are dangerous to the shooter. They just aren't any more or less dangerous than any other firearm available for sale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share