Is coffee okay if you only have it once in a while?


Kaly
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Sounds like that LDS person was doing a bit of rationalizing.

To go into the temple, one must keep the word of wisdom, which basically states that we should not ingest coffee.

That person's claim reminds me a little of another scripture:

And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

Those folks aren't doing it right.
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There are not any "ifs" in the gospel in regards to allowing sin.

Plenty of 'ifs' if one chooses to keep the commandments. But this time, the 'ifs' are on us... and the Lord fulfills his promises.

D&C 82:10

I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

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Here is a joke:

A Mormon told me that they don't drink coffee. I said, "A cup of coffee every day gives you wonderful benefits." He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well, it keeps you from being Mormon ..."

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I had an LDS person tell me it's okay to drink coffee, but if you plan to attend the temple you have to stop a couple weeks before so your body is clean for the temple or something like that? Can somebody enlighten me on this?

IMHO, coffee doesn't make you "impure". There's nothing chemically wrong with it. We haven't really even documented any major health problems with it (yeah, it's a mild stimulant . . . drink a few gallons of the stuff a day and I may get a heart attack in twenty years . . . if all the Big Macs don't kill me first).

The issue is that God has asked us to abstain from us, and temple-goers are expected to make a sincere effort to be perfectly obedient to God. It isn't coffee that makes me "unclean" for the temple--it's the attitude of willful disobedience, of which coffee-partaking is a mere symptom, that makes me unclean.

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A Mormon told me that they don't drink coffee. I said, "A cup of coffee every day gives you wonderful benefits." He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well, it keeps you from being Mormon ..."

My husband would love this joke. You can swap coffee for other things, like beer. :)

M.

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2 Nephi 28

7 Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us.

8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark...

15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

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If we were Orthodox Jews instead of LDS, would we be okay IF we only had a bacon cheeseburger every once in a while?

As Just_A_Guy eluded to: It's a spiritual obedience law and how well we are committed to following as much of the law that is clearly spelled out for us... as well as improving ourselves towards the spirit behind the commandments.

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The word of wisdom is the biggest hypocritical doctrine of the church, and one in which MANY church members judge others. Sad that so many will disfellowship those that drink coffee, smoke or drink and yet not all the 2xxl and 3xl and 4 XL size people that don't follow the commandment. Where is it "interpreted" that one is acceptable and one is not?

While I may live the word of wisdom, I don't have a testimony of it. What is it about coffee that is bad? Can I drink it iced? Chocolate covered beans? Please don't say caffeine, since I can drink diet Pepsi and hold a temple recommend.

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The word of wisdom is the biggest hypocritical doctrine of the church, and one in which MANY church members judge others. Sad that so many will disfellowship those that drink coffee, smoke or drink and yet not all the 2xxl and 3xl and 4 XL size people that don't follow the commandment. Where is it "interpreted" that one is acceptable and one is not?

While I may live the word of wisdom, I don't have a testimony of it. What is it about coffee that is bad? Can I drink it iced? Chocolate covered beans? Please don't say caffeine, since I can drink diet Pepsi and hold a temple recommend.

I felt your question was adequately addressed on page 1 of this thread.

IMHO, coffee doesn't make you "impure". There's nothing chemically wrong with it. We haven't really even documented any major health problems with it (yeah, it's a mild stimulant . . . drink a few gallons of the stuff a day and I may get a heart attack in twenty years . . . if all the Big Macs don't kill me first).

The issue is that God has asked us to abstain from us, and temple-goers are expected to make a sincere effort to be perfectly obedient to God. It isn't coffee that makes me "unclean" for the temple--it's the attitude of willful disobedience, of which coffee-partaking is a mere symptom, that makes me unclean.

If you take a moment to read the thread, no one has brought up anything about healthy problems associated with coffee. You are trying to start an argument where one simply does not exist.

As for the coffee vs the obese members, congratulations on being the first Mormon in history to observe this paradox. And yes, that was sarcasm.

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Hypocritical? How so? You should be able to have coffee because people have weight problems? I fail to see the connection. People have weight problems sometimes because they're not taking care of themselves. Sometimes they're not taking care of themselves for reasons you obviously don't understand. Sometimes it's out of their control. Sometimes it's not. But that has nothing to do with whether you can have a cup of coffee in the morning or not. Even in the case of those who are willingly and consciously eating themselves to death. One sin doesn't excuse another. We're talking about obedience here, not tit-for-tat based on a very limited knowledge. Heavenly Father has His reasons for asking us to do things. Sometimes science catches up to Him, sometimes we just do things by faith, knowing that our loving Father knows best and wants the best for us. So you use that word- hypocritical- but I don't think it means what you think it means.

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So, how do you expect Bishops handle the case?

It's easy to determine if you're following the "no coffee, no tea, no alcohol, no smoking". Because, if you drink/use it, then you're breaking the commandment.

How does a bishop determine if you're following the rest of the health code? Is he to keep a caliper in his office to measure your fat content? Is he to refuse recommends if you're bigger than size XL and smaller than size S? Are we to confess to the bishop if we ingest more than 2,000 calories a day?

The commandment is clear. Take care of your bodies. If you're not doing that, then you're breaking the commandment. Of course, "taking care of my body" is subjective.

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The word of wisdom is the biggest hypocritical doctrine of the church, and one in which MANY church members judge others. Sad that so many will disfellowship those that drink coffee, smoke or drink and yet not all the 2xxl and 3xl and 4 XL size people that don't follow the commandment. Where is it "interpreted" that one is acceptable and one is not?

While I may live the word of wisdom, I don't have a testimony of it. What is it about coffee that is bad? Can I drink it iced? Chocolate covered beans? Please don't say caffeine, since I can drink diet Pepsi and hold a temple recommend.

There is nothing hypocritical about the gospel but indeed there are hypocrites in the church. Let's not forget that hypocrites are everywhere, though, and not just members. In addition, the biggest problem people have in general is MYOB (minding their own business!). What you do is not for me to judge, and vice versa, what I do is not for you to judge.

Church Officials have stated that coffee and tea fall under the Word of Wisdom. However, they do not preach that members should shun or dis-fellowship those that fall short. Of course, we all sin. And those that do point fingers, will be judged accordingly.

It's dangerous when we turn a blind eye to, or jump to conclusions (from either side). There are members that struggle with addiction. While this isn't an excuse, it's a valid explanation as to why they continue to smoke, for example. We don't condone the sin but we certainly love the sinner. Personally, and in a lot of instances in life, support and positive encouragement go a long ways (and humility from the spectator and sinner).

Those are my two cents.

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I will abstain from any further comments on this thread. I was reprimanded for making "derogatory" comments about the church I love and have been a member of my whole life. There is a difference between statements and revelation, and well, apparently some people's definition of "derogatory"..................

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I'd like to hear what people are reading in the Word of Wisdom that makes them think it's a diet plan, or a way to avoid excess pounds.

All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life

Ah, sweet sweet carbohydrates. Grain is so wonderful. It can be turned into partially hydrogenated palm kernel oil. How about unbleached white flour? Breads and pitas and donughts and muffins and Little Debbie snack cakes. Staff of life, right? I watched a show once about the diet they use to make Sumo wrestlers. Grain (a ton of rice) is indeed the staff of life there.

I'm guessing people would quote the "these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving" part, but that's only referring to herbs and fruit.

I know people are ticked off about meat. They also tend to be unaware of the moving comma. Here's a scan of the original 1835 commandment:

Posted Image

Look at that last sentence there. It's pleasing unto God, that meat is used sparingly, but all the time, everywhere. People who say that meat should only be used in times of winter or famine, are misreading the scripture. God is telling us He disagrees with such people, and the exact opposite is pleasing unto Him.

[Full disclosure - this whole post is a little tongue-in-cheek. I'm just pointing out how hard it is to prove that you're being righteously judgemental against anyone with the WoW, whether you're ticked off at a coffee drinker or a fat person.]

Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon
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Guest gopecon

Parts of the WofW are easy to be compliant with. Don't drink coffee, tea, alcohol, or use tobacco are pretty darn clear. You are either avoiding them or you aren't. The diet recommendations are much more open to individual interpretation. Two individuals could eat the exact same diet and come out with significantly different waistlines based on a whole host of factors.

As far as judging those who break the WofW, unfortunately it is a fairly visible, hard to hide commandment (especially for smokers). I try to take the attitude (I believe I heard this from a GA) that the smell of tobacco at church is the smell of someone who is trying to repent.

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I will abstain from any further comments on this thread. I was reprimanded for making "derogatory" comments about the church I love and have been a member of my whole life. There is a difference between statements and revelation, and well, apparently some people's definition of "derogatory"..................

It just seems that your comments are negative (maybe a better word than derogatory) and combative. From what I remember about your other posts however. You can feel free to post how you like (within the rules) but just remember that others will do the same.

I am not sure what the "hypocritical doctrine" you are referring to is. The doctrine is in the word of wisdom, the hypocritical part is upon us. Such as judging someone who appears overweight as unhealthy and breaking the WOW. Did you know that you can look overweight but still be as healthy as an oxe? Or you could look physically fit but be literally on the verge of a heart attack?

Hypocrits come with life. But I know no doctrine that is hypocritical.

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I will abstain from any further comments on this thread. I was reprimanded for making "derogatory" comments about the church I love and have been a member of my whole life. There is a difference between statements and revelation, and well, apparently some people's definition of "derogatory"..................

I'm not the mod, but I was pretty shocked when you said, "hypocritical of the church". I think that's what got you a warning for.

Nothing about the WOW is hypocritical of the Church. I understand you have a problem identifying what is bad about coffee. First of all, the WOW is a covenant we make. When we got baptized we promised to obey it. We didn't make the covenant by saying - I'm only going to obey it if it has health benefits.

Now, I'm going to put forth a concept - "Global Warming is caused by industrialization". Now, if you think that statement is true, you can find a thousand and one articles/research/studies to support such a theory. If you think that statement is false, you can find a thousand and one articles/research/studies to tell you the statement is false.

Now, how about "Coffee is bad for you". I can find a thousand and one articles/research/studies to support such a theory just like I can find a thousand and one articles/reaserch/studies to show coffee having health benefits.

I never had a problem following the WOW because when the missionaries told me that to be baptized you have to refrain from coffee, tea, alcohol, and smoking, I told them - I already avoid those things because I know they're bad for me. So yes, this is not unique to LDS. This is the same health code for athletes as well. But, if the missionaries would have come and said, to be baptized you have to wear only purple clothing. I would have said, okay to that as well. If a Catholic nun can covenant to wear habits, I can covenant to wear purple clothes too.

So, why should you follow the WOW on coffee? Is it so you can join the varsity team? No. You follow the WOW on coffee simply because you made a covenant to do so. It's such a simple covenant. If you can't follow such a simple covenant, how can you follow the more incovenient covenant of wearing temple garments? How can you follow the more complex ones of Loving your God and Loving your neighbors which include your enemies?

Edited by anatess
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I think that the WOW provides a set guidline for us, but outside of those guildlines with the rest of the Lords doctrine, is very fluid and up for interpritation.

For example, I know for a fact that if I drink sugary drinks I will pack on the pounds like no others buisiness. If I eat sugary treats however, I am okay. I really dont like treats anyway, I am a main course kind of guy.

Outside of the set guidlines, we should learn what our body can take and can not take. If my body cannot handle dairy, but I continue to eat it, would that not be against the WOW? We know what makes us healthy. And by striving to live that way, I think we are striving to live the WOW.

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But, if the missionaries would have come and said, to be baptized you have to wear only purple clothing. I would have said, okay to that as well.

I don't know about purple. Red maybe but not purple. :P

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