What does "A Personal Relationship with Christ" mean to you?

[norah63]

Family does say it so beautifully. Our relationship with our Heavenly Father and all our brothers and sisters. And we know as we are known. Each part of the Body of Christ in perfect harmony.

Personal relationship means that each is involved totally in the other ones life. Sharing and caring, till the end.

Life is so daily.

[Magen_Avot]

I have done some re-reading of responses with some of them in my thoughts since they were posted. The reason is, like some, this subject has filled my thoughts for a while now.

Today I was looking at the church website and did a search on "personal relationship with Christ" and came accross an Oct 1976 general conferance talk by Elder James E Faust titled, "A Personal Relationship with the Savior".

A Personal Relationship with the Savior - general-conference

He described a group of missionaries being asked, "What is the greatest need in the world?” and said one missionary said, "Is not the greatest need in all of the world for every person to have a personal, ongoing, daily, continuing relationship with the Savior?”

Another point Elder Faust makes is this, "Since our own feelings are sacred to us and cannot be disputed by others, let us begin with those quiet assurances which occasionally can come to all of us and which we know are true. We cannot always prove these verities to others, yet they come as a form of knowledge."

These statements ring true to my experience and feelings, and I have been given more to contemplate by your sharing.

May your journey on the path to Christ be blessed.

[SteveVH]

I have been contemplating the question of "what is a Christian" for awhile and have had some meaningful discussions with my now missionary daughter. She has had many such conversations with others as well. It has been interesting but I have found that there is no well articulated meaning. It changes to make one's point. I did a search on this subject in the forums here and found PrisonChaplain had just posted "What do Christians Believe?" and it was an interesting read and I was led further afield.

I read on the web a statement by Matt Slick who said this, "Christianity isn't about rules and regulations to follow. It is about a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ." This statement has stayed in my mind because it has been an anchoring point in the last year for me. The thing is, the more I think about it the more I ask, what do you mean when you say "a personal relationship with Christ?" I have not found any past op that has touched this subject so I'm asking for your thoughts. Definitions, experiences or what have you...

I chose general beliefs because I'm not directing it to LDS specifically.

Because Christ founded a Church, having a personal relationship with Christ means having a personal relationship with his Church.

I certainly feel that I have a personal relationship with Christ, but it truly is found in my Church, not sitting on top of a mountain. And yes, I certainly have several "private times" with Christ throughout each and every day, but this isn't just about "me and Jesus". It is about being part of the people of God.

[Magen_Avot]

Because Christ founded a Church, having a personal relationship with Christ means having a personal relationship with his Church....

I'm giving that some contemplation having read it recently... I think.

I think you are going in the direction of church members, but any input to what "having a personal relationship with His church" means?

[Magen_Avot]

While pondering the above, I came accross the following:

George W. Pace Sept 1974

What it means to know Christ

"To know the Lord is to know he loves us all with an infinite love. To taste of that love is to love others even as he loves them."

This fits perfectly with my experience.

[skalenfehl]

Having a personal relationship with my Savior to me means being completely obedient to all His commandments because of my love for Him and receiving Him as my Second Comforter and having Him minister to me in the flesh from time to time.

[SteveVH]

I'm giving that some contemplation having read it recently... I think.

I think you are going in the direction of church members, but any input to what "having a personal relationship with His church" means?

I can only speak from a Catholic perspective so certainly keep that in mind.

We believe that we have the most intimate personal relationship with Christ possible in this earthly life. We receive him in a way in which he becomes one with our entire being; body and soul. We receive him in the Eucharist; body, blood, soul and divinity of the glorified Christ. It is only through the Church that Christ comes to us in this manner. It is how he has remained with us and not left us orphans. This is the most dramatic example of why having a personal relationship with Christ means a relationship with his Church. But all of the sacraments, which we receive through the Church, are an intimate relationship with God.

Now, having been fed and nurtured by Christ in his Church, if we are to continue this relationship we must put flesh on the words of the Gospel and live them. We must feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless... We must love and we must love authentically, or we are betraying that personal relationship with Christ, who is Love.

God bless.

[AnthonyB]

I suppose it may help to think about what a personal relationship is not....

What would an impersonal relationship look like?

You can have an institutional relationship, the kind you generally have with a bank or insurance company.

You can have a professional relationship, with a lawyer or doctor.

That being said I could imagine it is possible to have a personal relationship with someone you disliked.

The phrase is often used as code word for people who (like myself) believe in the need to personally engage with discipleship of Jesus not just rely on an institutional relationship or a parental connection.

[Magen_Avot]

The phrase is often used as code word for people who (like myself) believe in the need to personally engage with discipleship of Jesus not just rely on an institutional relationship or a parental connection.

"code word" sounds so cryptic. As you link that to "personally engage with discipleship of Jesus" I wonder what you are really saying there. My interest is peaked so could you expound a little more?

[Magen_Avot]

I can only speak from a Catholic perspective so certainly keep that in mind.

We believe that we have the most intimate personal relationship with Christ possible in this earthly life. We receive him in a way in which he becomes one with our entire being; body and soul. We receive him in the Eucharist; body, blood, soul and divinity of the glorified Christ. It is only through the Church that Christ comes to us in this manner. It is how he has remained with us and not left us orphans. This is the most dramatic example of why having a personal relationship with Christ means a relationship with his Church. But all of the sacraments, which we receive through the Church, are an intimate relationship with God.

Now, having been fed and nurtured by Christ in his Church, if we are to continue this relationship we must put flesh on the words of the Gospel and live them. We must feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless... We must love and we must love authentically, or we are betraying that personal relationship with Christ, who is Love.

God bless.

I do understand a little about the Eucharist and it's greater meaning... um, I'll just leave it at that and keep my nose above water . My DW was Catholic (pre Vatican II) so we've talked a bit about it. I'll be honest though, it's a bit confusing but I do see where you are coming from better. Thanks

[norah63]

Personal relationship with Christ puts me in the body of believers, so the relationship with other members of the body of Christ should be healthy and helpful. Not holding them higher than the head.

The head rules the body, so each part just does what the head tells us, not another body part.

This is not disrespecting to any of the rest of the body, it is just the only way a healthy body works, imho.

[selek]

The head rules the body, so each part just does what the head tells us, not another body part.

Norah, I agree with your premise, but wonder if you've seen the movie The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, with Robin Williams.

His character in that film has a unique take on the head/body dichotomy...

[Traveler]

I can only speak from a Catholic perspective so certainly keep that in mind.

We believe that we have the most intimate personal relationship with Christ possible in this earthly life. We receive him in a way in which he becomes one with our entire being; body and soul. We receive him in the Eucharist; body, blood, soul and divinity of the glorified Christ. It is only through the Church that Christ comes to us in this manner. It is how he has remained with us and not left us orphans. This is the most dramatic example of why having a personal relationship with Christ means a relationship with his Church. But all of the sacraments, which we receive through the Church, are an intimate relationship with God.

Now, having been fed and nurtured by Christ in his Church, if we are to continue this relationship we must put flesh on the words of the Gospel and live them. We must feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless... We must love and we must love authentically, or we are betraying that personal relationship with Christ, who is Love.

God bless.

As always I appreciate different perspectives. The personal relationship is most interesting to me. In our society a high percentage of the "poor" are overweight (over fed) or have bad dietary habits. In addition many are "hungry" for things they ought not to eat. In addition the majority of naked I have encountered seem to be such as a perverted desire contrary to the commandments of G-d. Therefore, it seems to me not just providing something - it is about providing benefit and when we speak of things from a religious standpoint - that benefit ought to have eternal connections. As an example - during Hitler's reign of power the poverty level in Germany was at an all time low.

I agree that institutions are important - Often I think the concepts of individual relationships are also important but from the intent of this thread - is it better to have a personal relationship with G-d or to be involved in G-d's church? You have noted that the two are the same - but I wonder in light of the second commandment - is it better to belong to G-d's church and fail to uphold some Christian ideals or is it better to uphold Christian ideas and fail to figure out which of all the Christian Churches is really Jesus' Holy Church?

The Traveler

[SteveVH]

As always I appreciate different perspectives. The personal relationship is most interesting to me. In our society a high percentage of the "poor" are overweight (over fed) or have bad dietary habits. In addition many are "hungry" for things they ought not to eat. In addition the majority of naked I have encountered seem to be such as a perverted desire contrary to the commandments of G-d. Therefore, it seems to me not just providing something - it is about providing benefit and when we speak of things from a religious standpoint - that benefit ought to have eternal connections. As an example - during Hitler's reign of power the poverty level in Germany was at an all time low.

I agree that institutions are important - Often I think the concepts of individual relationships are also important but from the intent of this thread - is it better to have a personal relationship with G-d or to be involved in G-d's church? You have noted that the two are the same - but I wonder in light of the second commandment - is it better to belong to G-d's church and fail to uphold some Christian ideals or is it better to uphold Christian ideas and fail to figure out which of all the Christian Churches is really Jesus' Holy Church?

The Traveler

None of us find truth in a vacuum. We receive divinely revealed truth from the Church. As Paul said:

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent" (Romans 10:13-14)

We cannot have a personal relationship until we know the person with whom we are to have this relationship. So the Church and the relationship are intrinsically connected.

To your question as to which is better, I would say that those who believe they have a relationship with Christ without a Church have only a relationship with their imagination. Those who have the Church but do not uphold the truth found there have placed themselves outside of the Church and therefore outside of the family of God. In fact, those who deny a revealed truth are denying the very Person (Jesus Christ) with whom they purport to have a relationship. No, we need to adhere to the truth given by Jesus to the Apostles and be faithful to that truth. If we do not, we are in worse shape than those who are simply ignorant of the truth.

Glad you're back, Traveler. I was beginning to wonder if anyone was coming to this forum anymore.

God bless.

[Traveler]

None of us find truth in a vacuum. We receive divinely revealed truth from the Church. As Paul said:

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent" (Romans 10:13-14)

We cannot have a personal relationship until we know the person with whom we are to have this relationship. So the Church and the relationship are intrinsically connected.

To your question as to which is better, I would say that those who believe they have a relationship with Christ without a Church have only a relationship with their imagination. Those who have the Church but do not uphold the truth found there have placed themselves outside of the Church and therefore outside of the family of God. In fact, those who deny a revealed truth are denying the very Person (Jesus Christ) with whom they purport to have a relationship. No, we need to adhere to the truth given by Jesus to the Apostles and be faithful to that truth. If we do not, we are in worse shape than those who are simply ignorant of the truth.

Glad you're back, Traveler. I was beginning to wonder if anyone was coming to this forum anymore.

God bless.

To clarify - I kind of see religion in the same perspective as Jesus taught of talents. In short this means to to whom much is given much is expected. I also believe that the spirit of G-d touches in some way upon all nations, kindreds, tongues and people. I believe every society receives at least portions of truth. Those that are obedient will receive more and to those that are not obedient, their portion of truth will diminish.

I have found Buddhism rather compelling. It is the only religion I know that as it was spread it brought peace to societies at war. In particular the introduction of Buddhism into China was peaceful and enlightening (improving sciences, technology, education, the arts and relationships with outsiders) in contrast to the early expansion of Islam and Christianity that in essence lead (in some cases) to genocide of non believers.

However, I must admit that in contrast to history, as I have traveled, I have found those devout to their religion (with some few exceptions) to be good examples of the light G-d has granted them. I have recorded in my personal journal that it seems to me that I have discovered many non-Christian individuals to be better examples of the teachings of Christ than are many Christians that tout their personal relationship with Jesus. This observation, of course is using the recommended method purported by Jesus - "By this shall you know my disciples, if they have loved one unto another."

The Traveler

[SteveVH]

To clarify - I kind of see religion in the same perspective as Jesus taught of talents. In short this means to to whom much is given much is expected. I also believe that the spirit of G-d touches in some way upon all nations, kindreds, tongues and people. I believe every society receives at least portions of truth. Those that are obedient will receive more and to those that are not obedient, their portion of truth will diminish.

I have found Buddhism rather compelling. It is the only religion I know that as it was spread it brought peace to societies at war. In particular the introduction of Buddhism into China was peaceful and enlightening (improving sciences, technology, education, the arts and relationships with outsiders) in contrast to the early expansion of Islam and Christianity that in essence lead (in some cases) to genocide of non believers.

However, I must admit that in contrast to history, as I have traveled, I have found those devout to their religion (with some few exceptions) to be good examples of the light G-d has granted them. I have recorded in my personal journal that it seems to me that I have discovered many non-Christian individuals to be better examples of the teachings of Christ than are many Christians that tout their personal relationship with Jesus. This observation, of course is using the recommended method purported by Jesus - "By this shall you know my disciples, if they have loved one unto another."

The Traveler

In the end it isn't really how much we know, but what we have done with what we know. And as you have pointed out, the most important thing that we can do is to love. If we had all the knowledge in the world it would gain us nothing without love.

[Traveler]

In the end it isn't really how much we know, but what we have done with what we know. And as you have pointed out, the most important thing that we can do is to love. If we had all the knowledge in the world it would gain us nothing without love.

But love is part of the set of knowledge that man has access to in this life. It is my personal belief that what is important is that which we seek and not so much what we think we have found. Thus our faith becomes what the ancients taught (including Christ) as the "Way" or the "Path" rather than a destination religion. I am always concerned with those that think they have found the "correct" religion (including many LDS) because they seem to behave towards other and the possibilities of learning as though their path or way has ended and they have arrived - I believe that in finding the way or path is just a beginning.

The Traveler

[DennisTate]

On 1/14/2013 at 2:31 PM, Magen_Avot said:

I have been contemplating the question of "what is a Christian" for awhile and have had some meaningful discussions with my now missionary daughter. She has had many such conversations with others as well. It has been interesting but I have found that there is no well articulated meaning. It changes to make one's point. I did a search on this subject in the forums here and found PrisonChaplain had just posted "What do Christians Believe?" and it was an interesting read and I was led further afield.

I read on the web a statement by Matt Slick who said this, "Christianity isn't about rules and regulations to follow. It is about a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ." This statement has stayed in my mind because it has been an anchoring point in the last year for me. The thing is, the more I think about it the more I ask, what do you mean when you say "a personal relationship with Christ?" I have not found any past op that has touched this subject so I'm asking for your thoughts. Definitions, experiences or what have you...

I chose general beliefs because I'm not directing it to LDS specifically.

I actually went through a time of anger with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus once I confronted proof that my former belief in Soul Sleep was obviously incorrect.  

As long as I believed in Soul Sleep the ida of "many called, few chosen" and a "broad way leading to destruction and many there be who go in thereat" and a "narrow way leading to life and few finding" it was OK.... but as soon as I read a couple of negative NDE accounts... I was thrown into a philosophical crisis......

because Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was pretty clear that there was an afterlife realm so bad........ that it would be better to cut off your right hand or pluck out your right eye... than go into it!

 

So I prayed with chutzpah..... and anger...... and of course my pride that was certainly a huge factor..  .... .but Messiah Yeshua - Jesus answered ALL of my questions over these past 28 years!

I find my self in situations where I know I need guidance... I pray for guidance... and Wow.... but I sure seem to get it.....

Edited January 10, 2019 by DennisTate
add a comment....

[e v e]

It means to me that I listen to Him, and hear Him, and that I try to stay with Him every minute of each day, and pay attention to any living dream he gives me... and read his scripture... And that this is my whole life. I really don't have a life here to speak of...

only I live to be His and hear from Him.

[DennisTate]

On 1/14/2013 at 2:31 PM, Magen_Avot said:

I have been contemplating the question of "what is a Christian" for awhile and have had some meaningful discussions with my now missionary daughter. She has had many such conversations with others as well. It has been interesting but I have found that there is no well articulated meaning. It changes to make one's point. I did a search on this subject in the forums here and found PrisonChaplain had just posted "What do Christians Believe?" and it was an interesting read and I was led further afield.

I read on the web a statement by Matt Slick who said this, "Christianity isn't about rules and regulations to follow. It is about a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ." This statement has stayed in my mind because it has been an anchoring point in the last year for me. The thing is, the more I think about it the more I ask, what do you mean when you say "a personal relationship with Christ?" I have not found any past op that has touched this subject so I'm asking for your thoughts. Definitions, experiences or what have you...

I chose general beliefs because I'm not directing it to LDS specifically.

My dad passed on January 1, 1990.  Around that time I began to study near death experience accounts and I came to the conclusion that my belief in Soul Sleep had been terribly in error.  

There is a saying in psychology that High Expectations..... combined with a low perception of reality........ the difference can be ANGER!

Well...... I got angry with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and I took out on Messiah Yeshua -Jesus my own guilt over my own failures due to my

having been "non-prostylitizing".  

I had been taught to pray with chutzpah and boldness......... and I really admired how Moses had seemingly changed the mind of G-d on occasion toward Israel..... so.........

I took Isaiah 45

rather literally and I stuck my right hand up in the air toward the north.........

and I prayed and I challenged Messiah Yesua- Jesus to take me by the right hand.... as he had taken Gentile King Cyrus.....

(I was actually rather jealous at the time because I thought at that time that my old church was pretty much the best of the best of the best of the best........

so I figured that we were entitled to a higher level of guidance than Gentile Emperors)........ anyway......... twenty nine years later and I am still alive......

and I can attest that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus has an off the scale brilliant sense of humour......... or I would not be alive.

I even made an offer to the Ancient of Days the Heavenly Father based on Leviticus 16 verse ten in the original Hebrew....as you can read over here if you are 

really, really, really bored?

 

[e v e]

On 1/14/2013 at 1:31 PM, Magen_Avot said:

I have been contemplating the question of "what is a Christian" for awhile and have had some meaningful discussions with my now missionary daughter. She has had many such conversations with others as well. It has been interesting but I have found that there is no well articulated meaning. It changes to make one's point. I did a search on this subject in the forums here and found PrisonChaplain had just posted "What do Christians Believe?" and it was an interesting read and I was led further afield.

I read on the web a statement by Matt Slick who said this, "Christianity isn't about rules and regulations to follow. It is about a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ." This statement has stayed in my mind because it has been an anchoring point in the last year for me. The thing is, the more I think about it the more I ask, what do you mean when you say "a personal relationship with Christ?" I have not found any past op that has touched this subject so I'm asking for your thoughts. Definitions, experiences or what have you...

I chose general beliefs because I'm not directing it to LDS specifically.

it means leaving this world, and suffering many trials... because this world is hostile to Him. 

Let me tell you how i met Him. 

 

I had been for years living as an agnostic, i guess that being the modern word for heathen... 

before i met Him, first i met the enemy ...That was in 2002 or so... but he masked himself as very beautiful... yet being so utterly cold and harsh at the same time.I had confused that deity , who is His adversary, with Christ. 

Then fastforwarding, i continued more empty years until it all came to an end and I met Christ.  And understood how i had confused things. 

I will try to write that out in the next post. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by e v e

[e v e]

Well, i remained agnostic. Until one day I hit rock bottom, and I realized I always knew He was there, and I began to talk to Him. I did not ask Him for anything. All I did was give Him my promises, several things and i cried for a long time, feeling so lonely for Him, yet not believing he would want me. Then, I began to feel very soft inside, and that He was talking to me. He showed me many things in the other world, was all very quickly and i couldn't remember all in my mind, only in my soul could I feel what was meant. Many things he has shown me, incredible to describe, though even now, not all of them at the time did I completely understand. 

There are others, but one simple most gorgeous experience with Him was in spring of 2016.  A couple of times He showed me events in scripture, and I was there, but this time I was on His lap, and how it felt was love. I was a little child and He was pouring His words into me and I understood them. It sounds unbelievable but in the context all He said made perfect sense, yet were no material words to understand by.. He talked to my soul and I could feel the meanings of all He said, all at once. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by e v e

[DennisTate]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:13 PM, e v e said:

Well, i remained agnostic. Until one day I hit rock bottom, and I realized I always knew He was there, and I began to talk to Him. I did not ask Him for anything. All I did was give Him my promises, several things and i cried for a long time, feeling so lonely for Him, yet not believing he would want me. Then, I began to feel very soft inside, and that He was talking to me. He showed me many things in the other world, was all very quickly and i couldn't remember all in my mind, only in my soul could I feel what was meant. Many things he has shown me, incredible to describe, though even now, not all of them at the time did I completely understand. 

There are others, but one simple most gorgeous experience with Him was in spring of 2016.  A couple of times He showed me events in scripture, and I was there, but this time I was on His lap, and how it felt was love. I was a little child and He was pouring His words into me and I understood them. It sounds unbelievable but in the context all He said made perfect sense, yet were no material words to understand by.. He talked to my soul and I could feel the meanings of all He said, all at once. 

Wow!!!!!!

That type of experience reminds me somewhat of near death experience accounts that so transform lives and set people off on amazing missions in life.  

[e v e]

4 hours ago, DennisTate said:

Wow!!!!!!

That type of experience reminds me somewhat of near death experience accounts that so transform lives and set people off on amazing missions in life.  

My only mission , to use that term, is that this world come to an end . Seriously. 

[DennisTate]

1 hour ago, e v e said:

My only mission , to use that term, is that this world come to an end . Seriously. 

That is my mission as well........

and back in 1990 I wondered to what degree Messiah Yeshua - Jesus might be able to use a volunteer for a rather strange role????

Twenty nine years later.... and I think that I just might be useful somewhat along the line of that proverbial mouse in an Aesop's Fable who chewed the 

net that held the lion down.........

(I got into details on what I mean by this over on the Jewish forum in the thread related to Latter day Saints supporting a Jerusalem Third Temple)!