Friend not sure if this is considered rape


Star_
 Share

Recommended Posts

[WARNING: Frank talk ahead]

I am no lawyer, nor do I play one on the internet. My take is: If he admits that he continued thrusting into her even after she changed her mind and requested he stop, there is a very real possibility it could be considered forcible rape, however unutterably stupid that would be. But unless the guy is a drooling imbecile, that won't happen. And lacking that open admission, I don't see how any court of law in the US, even in Massachusetts or California, would ever convict him of rape.

I don't believe he raped her. She invited him in (so to speak), then changed her mind in media res. No reasonable person would convict a man of rape in such a situation. Of scumbaggery, yes, but not of rape. This is exactly the sort of case that keep feminists up at night thinking up ways to claim they NEVER happen, just like false rape allegations never happen.

As for telling the bishop, I hardly see what difference it makes if she's busy humping the guy and suddenly tells him to pull out, she's changed her mind. Does this somehow make her innocent of fornication? I mean, good for her for realizing it eventually -- better late than never, I suppose -- but as my Muslim friend would have said, when the thing is in the thing, the act has been committed. In once sense, perhaps it's better to have happened before the act climaxed...but on the other hand, what kind of a tease would do such a thing to her lover? Talk about scumbaggery...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Hidden
Hidden

but on the other hand, what kind of a tease would do such a thing to her lover? Talk about scumbaggery...

So you are calling my friend a scumbag too? If anyone wants to stop during sex, they are a scum bag? Doesn't everyone have a right to stop if they want, for whatever reason? She did not want to stop to tease him.

Edited by Star_
Link to comment

So you are calling my friend a scumbag too? If anyone wants to stop during sex, they are a scum bag? Doesn't everyone have a right to stop if they want, for whatever reason? She did not want to stop to tease him.

Star, you asked for feedback, so I gave it to you. No fair getting all hurt or offended by it.

Yes, I think it's pretty scummy for a woman to begin consensual sex with a man, then when things are getting really good, suddenly say, "Stop! I changed my mind!" Yes, that's scumbaggery. In your friend's particular case, I have a bit more sympathy because she was trying to retreat from a sin she was committing...but it still strikes me as a pretty scummy thing to do. As I said, better late than never, I suppose, but the time for her to back out and stop things was BEFORE PENETRATION OCCURRED. The fact that she wasn't doing it as a way to tease him makes her action much less scumbaggish, even (in a twisted sort of way) honorable. But I bet her sex partner didn't see it that way.

And in any case, the point is HE DIDN'T RAPE HER. Period. Based on the story you told, that is not rape, not morally, not ethically, and I suspect not even legally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Hidden
Hidden

Yes, I think it's pretty scummy for a woman to begin consensual sex with a man, then when things are getting really good, suddenly say, "Stop! I changed my mind!" Yes, that's scumbaggery. QUOTE]

So if a woman is not the mood anymore or in pain or feels sick or has to use the bathroom during sex (there are many reasons that can come up during consensual sex), they are a scumbag in your eyes? I am sorry but I don't agree with that. That is not fair or right in my opinion.

Edited by Star_
Link to comment
Hidden

Yes, I think it's pretty scummy for a woman to begin consensual sex with a man, then when things are getting really good, suddenly say, "Stop! I changed my mind!" Yes, that's scumbaggery. QUOTE]

How do you know it was really good? Maybe it sucked.

Link to comment

No means no... It is that simple but...

When dealing with other people a sudden change of mind needs to be communicated clearly and forcibly. Why? Because once you say yes it is understandable that the other person will think that it will still be yes all the way to the end. And such a change in 'plan' will be unexpected and an unpleasant surprise.

And guess what people (not just men but people) do when they have and unexpected or unpleasant surprise that stops them from doing something they are enjoying? More often or then not they will slip into denial and justification to try to work around the no. This is a simple human tendency, that when it manifests in a sexual encounter tend to work against men for reasons I hope are clear. The no has to be forceful enough to over come this or you will simply not reach them. And this is the case for your average run of the mill decent guy who would never ever consider himself a rapist

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I think it's pretty scummy for a woman to begin consensual sex with a man, then when things are getting really good, suddenly say, "Stop! I changed my mind!" Yes, that's scumbaggery.

So if I woman is not the mood anymore

Yes, scumbaggery.

or in pain

No, not scumbaggery. The assumption is that she'll correct whatever is causing pain and then return to the mutually agreed-upon activity.

or feels sick

Not scumbaggery, perhaps, but why is she agreeing to sex if she's puking or spewing diarrhea from her nether orifice?

or has to use the bathroom during sex

Not scumbaggery, but exceptionally poor planning. Again, the assumption is that she would take care of her urgent duty and then return to the mutually agreed-upon activity.

(there are many reasons that can come up during consensual sex)

I have been in an active, affectionate marriage for almost 25 years. I doubt there have been half a dozen times in all those years when the situation required a significant pause or break in activity.

I am sorry but I don't agree with that. That is not fair or right in my opinion.

You don't need to apologize for your opinion. But you asked for mine, and you got it. No fair getting all bent out of shape over it.

Yes, I think it's pretty scummy for a woman to begin consensual sex with a man, then when things are getting really good, suddenly say, "Stop! I changed my mind!" Yes, that's scumbaggery.

How do you know it was really good? Maybe it sucked.

Your story didn't indicate that she wanted the sex to stop in media res because she was not being sufficiently pleasured -- though if it had, I would say that, yes, that is indeed some major scumbaggery. Rather, you said your friend changed her mind after things had gotten going, and she did so just because she "wants to stop". My assumption was that she wanted to stop because she got cold feet, morally speaking. (If this is wrong, then yes, arbitrarily deciding to stop having sex in the middle of things is indeed and without doubt more scumbaggery.)

But in any case, her proclamation to the police officer that she was "raped" was false. She was not raped. It was consensual. She is trying to deny her culpability by hiding behind a technicality -- HUGE scumbaggery score there.

In my personal judgment, a woman who falsely accuses a man of rape should receive the same jail sentence that the falsely accused man would have received had he been convicted of the rape charge.

Edited by Vort
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hidden

Star, you asked for feedback, so I gave it to you. No fair getting all hurt or offended by it.

Yes, I think it's pretty scummy for a woman to begin consensual sex with a man, then when things are getting really good, suddenly say, "Stop! I changed my mind!" Yes, that's scumbaggery. In your friend's particular case, I have a bit more sympathy because she was trying to retreat from a sin she was committing...but it still strikes me as a pretty scummy thing to do. As I said, better late than never, I suppose, but the time for her to back out and stop things was BEFORE PENETRATION OCCURRED. .

You are right. I need to calm down a bit. I do appreciate your feedback. Just the whole if you ever want to stop during consensual sex thing, grrr.

I guess I made it sound like she was teasing him. She told me the sex sucked and it hurt. She was not stopping just because she wanted to back out of the sin. I should have put that in the details.

Link to comment
Posted (edited) · Hidden
Hidden

Well Vort, I guess I am a scumbag in your eyes then. I am married (in an active, affectionate marriage as well) and there have been times where I have had to pee really, really bad during sex (even when I peed right before). I have fallen out of the mood during it (though I really did not want to). I have been in pain and tried to fix it but the pain was still there. It is not all that common, but has happened.

Edited by Star_
Link to comment
Posted (edited) · Hidden
Hidden

Yes, scumbaggery.

But in any case, her proclamation to the police officer that she was "raped" was false. She was not raped. It was consensual. She is trying to deny her culpability by hiding behind a technicality -- HUGE scumbaggery score there.

In my personal judgment, a woman who falsely accuses a man of rape should receive the same jail sentence that the falsely accused man would have received had he been convicted of the rape charge.

Wait a second. I said in the op she told the police officer she was NOT sure if it was rape. She explained the situation to him. The police officer told her it WAS rape (even though it was consensual to begin with) and the PO got her ex's name and number. The police officer called the ex about it.

Edited by Star_
Link to comment

I guess I made it sound like she was teasing him. She told me the sex sucked and it hurt. She was not stopping just because she wanted to back out of the sin. I should have put that in the details.

If it was hurting her, that's a different matter. But as you said, he stopped. Why did she call the cops? And why would she have told a cop that she was raped, or even suggested any such thing? When a woman has consensual sex with a man and then tries to pin rape on him, I pretty much lose all sympathy for the woman.

Given that this woman is then running to the bishop, ostensibly to repent, and then wonders whether she should have mentioned that she was "raped" -- well, bull crap. That she would even consider such a thing shows that she is willing to accuse a man of a horrendous felony in order to try to avoid taking responsibility FOR HER OWN ACTIONS. And that, Star, is about as scummy as it gets. As you mentioned, SHE DIDN'T EVEN STOP SEX FOR ANY MORAL CONSIDERATIONS! She stopped only because it was hurting her. Then, later, the moral guilt starts kicking in, and what does she do? She accuses her lover of rape!

Star, this woman is your friend, so I'm sure you don't like hearing critical and judgmental talk of her. But I see no way around it. What she began to do was unspeakably evil. Had she followed through with her lie, it would have been the moral equivalent of raping her lover. It was bad, bad, bad, bad. It was evil. Falsely accusing her lover of rape -- it doesn't get much lower than that. And doing it to deny MORAL culpability is absolutely and utterly outrageous.

Based on what you wrote. For me, this is all academic. I don't know the people involved, and I don't know the situation beyond your descriptions of it. But based on what you've written, that's my judgment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait a second. I said in the op she told the police officer she was NOT sure if it was rape. She explained the situation to him. The police officer told her it WAS rape and got her ex's name and number. The police officer called the ex about it.

Talking to a police officer about something that could be a crime will/should trigger an investigation. Assuming he didn't incriminate himself with her being unsure investigation wouldn't go beyond talking to him because there is no evidence

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait a second. I said in the op she told the police officer she was NOT sure if it was rape. She explained the situation to him.

But the point is, why would she mention it at all? Why would she bring it up? If the cop brought it up, why wouldn't she forcefully say, "No, of COURSE he didn't rape me! It was consensual! I agreed to it, then stopped it because it was painful!"? Why would she even suggest for the smallest moment to the cop that maybe she had been raped?

If you are going to accuse a man of rape, you had d*****d well better have been raped. If you are even going to SUGGEST that he MIGHT have raped you, you had better be pretty darned sure he violated you. Inviting him to have sex, getting him inside you, and then saying, "Hey, stop!" -- after which it stops -- is not in any possible sense getting raped.

I guess I shouldn't be getting all upset about this. But in case you can't tell, false rape allegations are a hot-button item for me. I'm all for protecting women from rape, but with that protection comes a huge responsibility for women never, ever, EVER to misuse it, under ANY circumstances. Those who do deserve to rot in jail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hidden

If it was hurting her, that's a different matter. But as you said, he stopped. Why did she call the cops? And why would she have told a cop that she was raped, or even suggested any such thing? When a woman has consensual sex with a man and then tries to pin rape on him, I pretty much lose all sympathy for the woman.

Given that this woman is then running to the bishop, ostensibly to repent, and then wonders whether she should have mentioned that she was "raped" -- well, bull crap. That she would even consider such a thing shows that she is willing to accuse a man of a horrendous felony in order to try to avoid taking responsibility FOR HER OWN ACTIONS. And that, Star, is about as scummy as it gets. As you mentioned, SHE DIDN'T EVEN STOP SEX FOR ANY MORAL CONSIDERATIONS! She stopped only because it was hurting her. Then, later, the moral guilt starts kicking in, and what does she do? She accuses her lover of rape!

Star, this woman is your friend, so I'm sure you don't like hearing critical and judgmental talk of her. But I see no way around it. What she began to do was unspeakably evil. Had she followed through with her lie, it would have been the moral equivalent of raping her lover. It was bad, bad, bad, bad. It was evil. Falsely accusing her lover of rape -- it doesn't get much lower than that. And doing it to deny MORAL culpability is absolutely and utterly outrageous.

Based on what you wrote. For me, this is all academic. I don't know the people involved, and I don't know the situation beyond your descriptions of it. But based on what you've written, that's my judgment.

She went to the bishop first, then a couple weeks later talked to a cop. She was not even going to report it but had a prompting to. She does not want to pursue it anymore with the police. I will tell her to not pursue it anymore and to not mention the question of rape to the bishop at all (she did not say anything about rape to the bishop and does not want to. She wants to take full responsibility and be forgiven).

Link to comment

She went to the bishop first, then a couple weeks later talked to a cop. She was not even going to report it but had a prompting to. She does not want to pursue it anymore with the police. I will tell her to not pursue it anymore and to not mention the question of rape to the bishop at all (she did not say anything about rape to the bishop and does not want to. She wants to take full responsibility and be forgiven).

Realize that my judgment is that of a disinterested and underinformed third party. I gave you my opinion based on what you said. I put no great moral stock in my own opinion with respect to your friend, and I suggest you do the same. I have neither the authority nor the information (or wisdom) to judge what your friend should do regarding the specifics, other than that she should tell the absolute truth and not seek to hide her sins. So don't give her specific advice based solely on my rantings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Hidden
Hidden

I think she reported it to try to protect any future girlfriends of his. That is why she figured she got a prompting. Her ex raped his previous girlfriend, before he and my friend got together. My friend had it in a note from him. He admitted to raping his previous girlfriend in writing. She threw the note away though, she was mad after a fight that they had (he wrote loving stuff in it too).

Edited by Star_
Link to comment

Well Vort, I guess I am a scumbag in your eyes then. I am married (in an active, affectionate marriage as well) and there have been times where I have had to pee really, really bad during sex (even when I peed right before). I have fallen out of the mood during it (though I really did not want to). I have been in pain and tried to fix it but the pain was still there. It is not all that common, but has happened.

Ahh two questions which I think will make the point. When you stopped the action did your husband expect that it would resume as quickly as possible? And did it even if that meant that the two of you had to work to get you back in the mood?

If the answers are yes then you made Vort's point. If the answer to the last one is no then I think your most likely had to explain why to husband in a pretty clear manner for him to get the message. And you have a loving and affectionate relationship with someone you know and trust.

Your friends relationship was not nearly that developed. Maybe her boyfriend really is bad news, and she is getting/got bad vibes from him. That is enough for her to stop and get out. (it would be foolish not to) But other then getting her life in order she really doesn't seem to have any other actionable information

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hidden

I am probably leaving out so many details. I know its hard to say this or that on a difficult situation without really knowing. It is a long story. It is interesting that the previous girlfriend (before my friend) warned my friend that he raped her. She also reported him for rape.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share