Advice about a child in nursery

[til04002]

Now that the big kids (including my own son) have moved up to Primary, we have a class-ful of 6 two-yo. They all will leave and go to Primary at the end of the year. Only two really give me any problems. They are the two youngest. One's birthday is in August, and the other is October. August just likes to copy everyone and if she sees anyone with a toy, she wants to try it out, but I can redirect her with no problem to another toy. She makes eye contact with me when I talk to her and always reacts in some way to let me know that she has heard me, even if it's just to give me the stink-eye.

The other however, I have no idea how to handle. He is the October child, and he wants to play with every toy. He doesn't speak as much, and not nearly as clearly as the other children. He fixates on one toy and will not be convinced that any other toy is equally as cool. If I give him another toy to play with he uses it to hit the kid on the head that has the toy he wants. Then I have to sit him in time out, because I can't have him hitting all the kids on the head. I just sit him in my lap, but the kid won't listen to me. He bucks, kicks, squirms, twists, and refuses to make eye contact. He is not interested in anything I have to say. I hold him in my lap strongly, but not tightly, and calmly say his name, or softly touch his face to try to get him to look at me. Usually after a while of this, I can get his attention and I will tell him he needs to tell the child he's sorry. He'll tell them he's sorry, and I'll let him keep playing. The problem is I have to keep doing it over and over and over. By the end of nursery I'm ready to scream, and I know he's sick of it too. He acts similarly with his parents in Sacrament meeting too.

I am looking for advice on how to treat, talk, punish???, communicate, get through to him. I'm really not comfortable with doing anymore than sitting him in time out or if he gets really out of hand sending him back to his parents. I'm really unsure the best way to help him. Has anyone else tried anything that seemed to work with an difficult child?

[Wingnut]

Now that the big kids (including my own son) have moved up to Primary, we have a class-ful of 6 two-yo. They all will leave and go to Primary at the end of the year. Only two really give me any problems. They are the two youngest. One's birthday is in August, and the other is October. August just likes to copy everyone and if she sees anyone with a toy, she wants to try it out, but I can redirect her with no problem to another toy. She makes eye contact with me when I talk to her and always reacts in some way to let me know that she has heard me, even if it's just to give me the stink-eye.

I can't quite figure out what the "problem" is with August -- sounds perfectly age-appropriate to me. In fact, the idea that the rest of the kids aren't doing this exact same thing seems weird to me.

The other however, I have no idea how to handle. He is the October child, and he wants to play with every toy. He doesn't speak as much, and not nearly as clearly as the other children. He fixates on one toy and will not be convinced that any other toy is equally as cool. If I give him another toy to play with he uses it to hit the kid on the head that has the toy he wants. Then I have to sit him in time out, because I can't have him hitting all the kids on the head. I just sit him in my lap, but the kid won't listen to me. He bucks, kicks, squirms, twists, and refuses to make eye contact. He is not interested in anything I have to say. I hold him in my lap strongly, but not tightly, and calmly say his name, or softly touch his face to try to get him to look at me. Usually after a while of this, I can get his attention and I will tell him he needs to tell the child he's sorry. He'll tell them he's sorry, and I'll let him keep playing. The problem is I have to keep doing it over and over and over. By the end of nursery I'm ready to scream, and I know he's sick of it too. He acts similarly with his parents in Sacrament meeting too.

Have a parent in there with you every week.

I am looking for advice on how to treat, talk, punish???, communicate, get through to him. I'm really not comfortable with doing anymore than sitting him in time out or if he gets really out of hand sending him back to his parents. I'm really unsure the best way to help him. Has anyone else tried anything that seemed to work with an difficult child?

Absolutely, under no circumstances, should you punish the child.

[til04002]

So are you saying I shouldn't do time-out? Personally I don't see anything wrong with removing the child from the situation to let them try to "cool-down."

[Wingnut]

So are you saying I shouldn't do time-out? Personally I don't see anything wrong with removing the child from the situation to let them try to "cool-down."

Time out is a consequence, not a punishment. Punishment is punitive, not helpful.

[Echo2002]

The October child sounds like a child I had years ago. The parents later found out he was autistic. If he NEVER makes eye contact, that's a pretty good indication. Children with autism hate to have their routine changed, so they act out. The kid I had would hit other children and never listened to what we told him to do. I knew there was something wrong with him, because he also never talked.

[MormonMama]

The October child sounds like a child I had years ago. The parents later found out he was autistic. If he NEVER makes eye contact, that's a pretty good indication.

This was my first thought as well, although it's no guarantee of course. Has anyone talked to the parents about what they do at home to curb his behavior?

[til04002]

Well, I actually just yesterday got moved from nursery to primary so I guess I don't have to worry about it anymore. I had initially thought that something was up with him along the lines of autism. When I looked up how to help autistic children, it suggested including them in social situations with other children, and other things. Honestly it wasn't very helpful, because that's what nursery is. A big social situation where he has the opportunity to interact with other children. Anyways, I haven't mentioned anything to the parents. This is her first child, and I am certainly no expert. I have only one child as well, and have never had to deal with autism. So I don't really feel it is my place to bring it up with them. Thank you everyone for your advice.

[BrendaM]

It is not the responsiblilty of Primary teachers (including nursery leaders) to disclipline the children. It's their task to teach the Gospel through the Spirit.

If redirection; or a firm but kind work does not work in any given situation, then the parent needs to be brought in or child taken to parent.

Bad behaviour does not mean mental health issues. Non eye-contact can also be used in manipulation (even in the young). After saying that, certainly speaking with the parents to confirm if there has been any testing for disabilities will assist teacher/leaders in making the appropriate decisions.

If you feel it not appropriate to bring this up, then your only recourse is to take the child to the parent to handle these situations.

Once a child moves from nursery to regular Primary, the scenarios with the toys should disappear as toys should not be taken into Primary. If they are, they should be collected by the teachers/leaders until Primary is completed.

[Echo2002]

Our Bishop told us, you are not babysitters, if a child is acting up and disrupting everyone then you take the kid to their parents and let them deal with the child.

Of course when you do that and the parent is clueless and acts as though their child is a little angel, I'm not sure it does any good.

[Vort]

Of course when you do that and the parent is clueless and acts as though their child is a little angel, I'm not sure it does any good.

Sure it does. The parent is taking care of the child. Problem solved.

This can become awkward if the children of an investigator family are poorly disciplined, or a member couple or parent (especially partially active) is at wit's end to discipline the kids and feels a desperate need to have the child taught by someone else and also to go to his/her own adult class. But ultimately, the parents have to take responsibility for their children. Lots of patience and guidance of the Spirit comes into play in such cases.

[J-DawgFluffy]

I would talk to the parents of the child. This really does sound a lot like autism, especially the violent outbursts. (When my dad was Bish, he had to have a member (well, never baptized) banned from the building after he got violent several times and would act inappropriate with people. Turned out to be autistic.

We had one member who's 3-year old was autistic. My sister was nursery leader, and she would take him on walks through the halls when he became agitated. He liked to walk with his on the burlap, and getting him away from the other kids calmed him down.

[IamMe]

The October child sounds like a child I had years ago. The parents later found out he was autistic. If he NEVER makes eye contact, that's a pretty good indication. Children with autism hate to have their routine changed, so they act out. The kid I had would hit other children and never listened to what we told him to do. I knew there was something wrong with him, because he also never talked.

Mirrors my thoughts as well.

The lack of eye contact, fixation on a certain toy, the speech-language delays, together are all consistent signs in autism. I would bring up your concerns to either your primary prez or your bishop.

I would also discuss with the bishop bringing it up to the parents. My biggest concern is that therapy is so key to these children, that a late diagnosis can have pretty severe consequences to the child.

I have 2 sons with autism, and both times it took someone pointing out concerns for me to act and bring things up to our doctor. Not that I'm an uncaring parent that doesn't notice things with my children, but sometimes it's easy to dismiss issues thinking the child will catch up, or that it's just you being a paranoid parent. I totally missed things with my older of the 2, and he wasn't diagnosed until he was nearly 5, and as such didn't get as much of the therapy he could have so desperately used.

As someone else mentioned, routine is everything to children with ASD (autism spectrum disorder) Nursery is not an everyday occurance and even though they may have been going for the last year and a half it's not an everyday routine.

[Iggy]

All suggestions are good, but one thing that has not been mentioned and really should have is: It is the stewardship and responsibility of the Primary Presidency to talk to the parents. Not the Nursery Leader/Worker, not the teachers.

Our Branch Presidency has just decided that all disruptive children are to be taken to their fathers. From nursery to 17 years old ~ Fathers get them.

The teachers are to relate the problems to the appropriate Presidencies. Nursery to 11 to the Primary and 11/12 to 17 to the SS President.

When I was substituting in both Primary and Youth SS - I called the Primary President on her cell phone to alert her that I needed her to come get one of the boys. He was punching the other children in the head, and there was no way I was sending him to Mommy- she would ignore him. When the PPresident entered the class, I took the boy by the hand and took him to Daddy.

After the block the Branch President asked my why I hadn't taken him to Mommy. I told him she would just ignore him and he would disrupt RS class. Why should the sisters have to continue to be his babysitters. Since his birth, the entire RS has babysat him. Mommy and Daddy get 3 hours of free babysitting every single Sunday. Let the Brethren babysit him now. I also told the Primary President. She knew he acted up and disrupted the class, what she had no idea about was he didn't know his numbers at all and could not even find them when they were written on the black board. He couldn't read either. His teacher knew this, had him in her classes for 4 years, but she never told the Primary President.

Two weeks later I was substituting for the Youth SS class. Two of the boys were acting up so bad that if they weren't removed I was taking the rest of the kids and going to GDoctrine class.

I called Hubby on his cell, he is SS President, told him to come help. While he was standing guard, I took the two boys to the Branch President. BOTH of them were investigators, thus they had no parents in attendance, and the family that brought them were teaching the CTR class.

So again the PH got to babysit two unruly, rude, disrespectful teen boys. When I handed them off to the Branch President I told him that if he and they came back to class I would take the rest of the class into the adult class - he could teach them privately. I had taken as much rudeness, disrespect and inappropriate lip from them for a lifetime. I refused to allow them around the rest of the class.

Nearly two months later, and we now have a "New" policy regarding children acting up during classes. The first time they go to Daddy. The following Sunday, Daddy is to sit in class with child.

Daddy of the primary boy was mortified when he saw what son was doing. That same week the public school called him and he had to meet with the Principle. He has been doing much the same in school along with vandalizing the bathrooms. The Principle suggested that he be tested for attention disorder, autism and some other things.

For a week he underwent testing. Turns out he is nearly deaf in one ear and dyslexic. He has been totally lost. He just recently got a hearing aid- and he has two private tutors. One to help him with the Dyslexia and one to catch him up on his studies.

Husband and I both wear hearing aids in both ears. When we saw him in church after he got his, we sat down with him and asked how he was doing? He absolutely beamed at us. He hugged me, kissed me on the cheek and told me he loved me. He asked me how to clean his aid, will he get used to the loud noises? Like doors slamming shut - and kids yelling? He told us he doesn't see letters and words like everyone else and he is learning from a special teacher how to read. Then he hugged Husband, shook his hand and said he wanted to go listen to the chapel music.

Follow the lines of authority. Go to your Primary Presidency, Sunday School Presidency. They in turn will go to the Parents and the Bishopric/ Branch Presidency.