Question for a friend


LilyBelle00
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I was recently contacted by an old friend who I haven't heard from in a couple years. She was baptised in the church about 13 or 14 years ago when we were really close friends and about 16 or 17 years old. She wasn't active for very long after that. Her family wasn't very supportive and when they all ended up moving out of town, she quit going because she didn't know anyone at the new ward. It's silly but she was a teenager...

Anyway, she recently called me up and we got to talking and she said that she was really happy for me for planning on going to the temple. I asked her how she felt about the church now and if she had ever wanted to come back. She said that she still felt like the church was true and remembered her baptism fondly but she didn't think she could come back. I assumed that she was talking WoW issues and told her that we would welcome her back.... I found out that she is worried about those issues (she went through a party stage) but mostly she's worried about one particular incident about 7 years ago.

She was out with some friends and they were all goofing off and her and another girl were "dared" to make out. It didn't go very far, I guess just some kissing. She thinks she'll be excommunicated for this because she knows the church has pretty strict standards on this stuff.

I didn't know what to tell her because I don't know. It didn't seem like a huge deal to me since it was a one time, stupid thing. Would the church look at it as a "homosexual sin"?

Honestly, she probably won't come back to church and she could be using this as an excuse not to. I never would have thought she'd even be interested in coming back given how she lives her life now. I'd still like to be able to let her know what she'd be looking at if she came back though.

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Well... If she weren't baptized I know it would be no big thing. Practicing gay & bi people join all the time. Much less those who were experimenting or being young & stupid (personal opinion: trading sex acts & kisses for wagers and dares I believe to be stupid. Hence the description).

I'm fairly new around here, but I just can't imagine being exc'd for a kiss, when so much more done by people with so much more (time in grade is the wrong term, but same concept: years/ordinances/etc. vs a teen who was never solid to begin with)...is forgiven on a regular basis.

I mean... Isn't the assumption that when most people go less active, that they're generally doing proscribed things? Isn't there also a big push (ward missionaries & full time missionaries to see if people are ready to come back / help them back, if possible? In order to do that... I would THINK that quite a bit of kindness/elastitude is necessary. An I wrong?

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Yes, you would be wrong.

Forgiveness is different than seeking ecclesiastical clearance. Being forgiven by the Church is usually easier than feeling & knowing that God has forgiven you... and that you have forgiven yourself.

Also, just because some members may be less active does not mean that it is due to a sinful living. There may be other issues going on in life - perhaps a crisis of faith? Mental issues? Just need time away? I would not automatically assume that it is due to sin.

But I must call you out on this phrase and ask for clarification:

Practicing gay & bi people join all the time.

What did you mean by this?

According to Church standards, those that had lived such a lifestyle are encouraged and asked to live according to the law of Chastity - which includes no sexual relations with anyone other than your legally wed spouse of the opposite gender.

Those that do so, may enter the waters of baptism and be in full fellowship with the members of the Church. Those that do not, are not eligible for baptism.

So, please clarify your meaning behind your statement as I'm not sure I fully understood your intention.

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From what you described it sounds as though this was something that she did as a child. This in my opinion is not a something to worry about. If she feel that she needs to talk with the Bishop, then she can but kissing another same sex individual as described does not make you a Homosexual. This sounds like she needs to get it off her chest. If she is actively engaged in these types of activities then talking to the Bishop without desire to repent could lead to disfellowship, or Excommunicated depending on the circumstances. My opinion is that repenting to Heavenly Father and making a commitment to not do this act again is all that is needed. Satan really tries his best to make us feel very unworthy. She will be welcome back with loving arms. Just think of all the blessings she has been missing out of. Do not give up on her. Sounds like she is lucky to have a good friend as yourself. :)

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Sorry, maybe I messed up on my timeline. This happened after she was baptised and it happened (she said) about 7 years ago... so she would have been about 22 or 23 years old, not a child.

You probably assumed she was a child because I always sound like a kid asking my questions but I'm 29... I just sound young because I don't seem to know much since I was inactive for so long. :(

Edited by LilyBelle00
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The church is full of active happy believing fulfilled members, who were very very different people 7 years ago.

Like my wife tells our kids: "I'm a sucker for a kid who is sorry". I believe our Father in Heaven places a lot of weight on the content of one's heart. Church discipline tends to be geared to help someone become repentant - if you show up truly repentant, it is often a great cleansing process which blesses people for years.

I see no reason why this lady couldn't just come to church for a while. Eventually, she'll want to set up an appointment with the Bishop and take care of this. But maybe for a while just coming back and seeing what she thinks about it would be a good suggestion?

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Sorry, maybe I messed up on my timeline. This happened after she was baptised and it happened (she said) about 7 years ago... so she would have been about 22 or 23 years old, not a child.

Ultimately she needs to talk to a bishop.

My opinion is she made a mistake yes, but there are a whole host of teenagers(people with the understanding of teenagers included), that make mistakes and talk to a bishop and aren't excommunicated or even disfellowshipped. So my thinking is the bishop will work with her to help her feel forgiven.

but that is just my opinion, no matter what happens she needs to talk to a bishop to move forward.

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But I must call you out on this phrase and ask for clarification:

What did you mean by this?

According to Church standards, those that had lived such a lifestyle are encouraged and asked to live according to the law of Chastity - which includes no sexual relations with anyone other than your legally wed spouse of the opposite gender.

Those that do so, may enter the waters of baptism and be in full fellowship with the members of the Church. Those that do not, are not eligible for baptism.

So, please clarify your meaning behind your statement as I'm not sure I fully understood your intention.

Sorry... My bad!

People who are gay or bisexual, who HAVE practiced homosexual sex/relationships/marriage... But who ***no longer do*** / are making the choice not to/etc., join the church all the time.

Pretty key part of the sentence, there!

My brain was thinking : 10+ years of homosexual relationships v. 1 kiss.

And just made the (totally muddy) leap. Good catch.

The church just (a couple weeks ago!) launched the new SSA website, by the by.

Mormons and Gays

& is totally awesome if you haven't checked it out, yet!

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Guest gopecon

My understanding is that part of what determines the level of discipline is the covenants / level of responsibility that one has undertaken. A teen convert who was not active for long and has not been to the temple is very unlikely to be ex'd for a 7 year old sin. They will probably be welcomed back with open arms.

Should she talk with her bishop? Sure, it's always good to clear things up with the proper priesthood authorities. It sounds like it was a mild enough thing that she may be able to walk out of his office in good shape as far as the church goes.

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I could have sworn that I read an article in the Ensign where they stated Homosexual relations (the full act) were as (not more) serious than Hetrosexual fornication or Adultry (if married). It wasn't that long ago.

I can't see how this is any worse then her french kissing a guy. I think the drinking is more of an issue.

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I can't see how this is any worse then her french kissing a guy. I think the drinking is more of an issue.

I can see how it would be perceived as worse. Romantic involvement between singles of the opposite sex is acceptable to a degree. Romantic involvement between members of the same sex is always inappropriate.

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I just joined this message board today but I had to chime in on this issue. I think your friend might be looking for a reason not to come back. Whoever said it here that satan is always looking for ways to pull us down. And I agree, if she wants to come back she should be talking to her bishop.

I saw or heard somewhere that the church is having a second look at homosexuality. There have been medically proof that it may not be just a lifestyle choice but an actual chemical imbalance. Personally, I think it's wrong. There are many people who are active members of the church who claim to be gay. But they don't "practice" it.

In your friend's case, a one time thing 7 years ago is no reason to be ousted!

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