Sign in to follow this  
magicmormon

Advice on my marriage problems

Recommended Posts

My lawyer said I'd lose because a hole in the wall constitutes domestic violence.... and the judges are extremely liberal. My lawyer also said he believes I'm not a threat to my wife and I could win, but it wasn't likely.

Ever had an argument with your wife and you didn't agree with what she said, so you said, well that's just rediculous or perposterous! Or anything like this statement?

You ever criticized your wife for anything?

You ever yelled or raised your voice towards her?

You ever threaten an ultimatum because she refused to cooperate or reach some kind of comprimse?

Those all constitute emotional abuse. Most spouses, men and women are guilty of doing one or more of those things, especially when an argument arises. I'm not guilty of any sick and demented emotional abuse like sticking a gun to her head and saying stuff like "you'll love me or I'll blow your brains out" Mountains and mole hills... learn the difference.

I have been married for over 31 years. My husband has never yelled at me. He has never issued an ultimatum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been married for over 31 years. My husband has never yelled at me. He has never issued an ultimatum.

Congratulations to you both. I notice you didnt mention anything about criticism or having any of your thoughts ridiculed or belittled in any way.

The point is that mild emotional abuse is very very common. I think just about everyone is guilty of being critical at some point. That is the only kind of abuse i am guilty of. Not saying it is ok, im saying beware your judgemental comments and stop making moutains out of mole hills.

Btw, i dont yell at my wife either. The ultimatums were a last resort because i was so tired of waiting for a response. I ended up swallowing my pride on every one too. I repented of each offense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I have to say, you don't sound super repentant. Justifying things is usually the first clue that you're not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read this link:

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE (Abuse) - The Cycle

When a spouse throws an object, it sends a message that you did so because you were trying to control your urge to hurt them. So your wife isn't thinking, "Hey, at least he didn't abuse me." She's possibly thinking that it was leading to physical abuse.

i agree that it didnt send a positive message and i also agree she assumed it would eventually become physical. You have to remember that i didnt repeat the behavior and she spent two more months in the house with me. she had claimed to have forgiven me for that offense, but appararantly she couldnt let it go so easily. I can understand if she did this initially. But it hurt alot to be blindsided and betrayed two months later.

Sorry if i dont always sound repentant. I still have a lot of painful emotions and tender feelings concerning this order of protection and some of the posts are blindly judgemental instead of sympathetic, encouraging, and uplifting. I will explain what i can as i see it. Ive done much wrong, but ive also done much right. I could start a whole new thread about the wonderful things ive done for my wife. This thread has been mostly negative, so i suppose i shouldnt be so annoyed by several negative comments. We reap what we sow.

I am in a sinking boat of my own making. the only one that can save me is God and that is true for anyone. Control over your life is an illusion satan uses to keep us from relying on God. I have learned by sad experience that Gods ways are not my ways. Relying on him to take care of my needs is not easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Lord has a way of shaping us and often times it painful. If you allow it, you will change and come out a better man than you ever imagined. It's time you stop focusing on how hurt you are and start seeing the effect you have had on others.

If you truly love your wife then you will accept and support her choices and allow her the room to make her own mistakes. You seem to want to rush the healing and it does not work that way, this is probably how you did things in the past but rather than healing the hurt just piled up. For these wounds to heal it will take lots of time and patience and it's completely out of your hands. Your wife can't help you.

You can only change yourself. Look at this as an opportunity to shed who you once were and become new.

I wish you the best, I've been where you are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest gopecon

One thing that I don't think has been said is that women often feel like a man using porn is effectively cheating on her. In her mind if you were going elsewhere for fulfillment, then you were cheating on her (which was the point of the prohibition on looking lustfully at women in the Sermon on the Mount). Was it actual, physical adultery? No it was not, but for many women it can feel pretty darn close to it. Lip service about how important the marriage is when you have been "cheating" this way is going to sound pretty shallow to many women. As strongly as the Church leadership feels about it, I am surprised that you were able to keep your recommend while working through it.

You sound remorseful and sincere about your desires for your family. For your sake I hope you can work something out. It may be that she just had enough and that you will need to try again when you have your addiction under control. To be honest though, if she was my daughter I would not advise her to stay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Lord has a way of shaping us and often times it painful. If you allow it, you will change and come out a better man than you ever imagined. It's time you stop focusing on how hurt you are and start seeing the effect you have had on others.

If you truly love your wife then you will accept and support her choices and allow her the room to make her own mistakes. You seem to want to rush the healing and it does not work that way, this is probably how you did things in the past but rather than healing the hurt just piled up. For these wounds to heal it will take lots of time and patience and it's completely out of your hands. Your wife can't help you.

You can only change yourself. Look at this as an opportunity to shed who you once were and become new.

I wish you the best, I've been where you are.

You mentioned you've been where i am. How did things work out for you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mentioned you've been where i am. How did things work out for you?

It's a long story but my wife left me and our four children and I filed for divorce. I know firsthand what that review of our lives will be like when we pass on, I've unfortunately been blessed with the preview. During that period every time I saw the anguish in the faces of my children all the unkind words, selfish acts, and other mistakes I made with their mother tore thru my mind.

I'm remarried now and making mistakes so I'm still changing and growing. I like the person I am now and the person I'm becoming, though I'm far from perfect. I will forever be working on forgiving myself for the way I used to be and the resulting pain and suffering I brought into the lives of my children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ever had an argument with your wife and you didn't agree with what she said, so you said, well that's just rediculous or perposterous! Or anything like this statement?

You ever criticized your wife for anything?

You ever yelled or raised your voice towards her?

You ever threaten an ultimatum because she refused to cooperate or reach some kind of comprimse?

Those all constitute emotional abuse. Most spouses, men and women are guilty of doing one or more of those things, especially when an argument arises.

Actually, no, I do think these things are necessarily abuse (though I'm sure you can take them all to extreme cases).

People argue. Spouses argue. Criticism happens. And, yes, sometimes voices are raised.

I will say that when we get into threatening and ultimatums we're getting into real abuse category, but I don't think it's fair to communication to say all of these things are automatically abuse.

As for your situation in general...

You may feel your wife should stick by your side, through thick and thin. After all, we marry for better or for worse and all that.

I do think there is something to be said for sticking with your spouse even when things are tough. I recently read a book, then an article, about the need for women to support and love their husbands even when it isn’t easy.

But both also warned about when our actions just aren’t helping. The book went so far to ask how staying in a marriage where there are too many problems is helping the husband—would it be better for the husband if the wife distanced herself? Could she really be helping best that way?

Tackling this with the Lord and his servants may be what you need right now and it might be best for the situation if your wife removed herself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a long story but my wife left me and our four children and I filed for divorce. I know firsthand what that review of our lives will be like when we pass on, I've unfortunately been blessed with the preview. During that period every time I saw the anguish in the faces of my children all the unkind words, selfish acts, and other mistakes I made with their mother tore thru my mind.

I'm remarried now and making mistakes so I'm still changing and growing. I like the person I am now and the person I'm becoming, though I'm far from perfect. I will forever be working on forgiving myself for the way I used to be and the resulting pain and suffering I brought into the lives of my children.

Im so sorry for your loss. Good to hear you are remarried and enjoying those blessings again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, no, I do think these things are necessarily abuse (though I'm sure you can take them all to extreme cases).

People argue. Spouses argue. Criticism happens. And, yes, sometimes voices are raised.

I will say that when we get into threatening and ultimatums we're getting into real abuse category, but I don't :eek:think it's fair to communication to say all of these things are automatically abuse.

As for your situation in general...

You may feel your wife should stick by your side, through thick and thin. After all, we marry for better or for worse and all that.

I do think there is something to be said for sticking with your spouse even when things are tough. I recently read a book, then an article, about the need for women to support and love their husbands even when it isn’t easy.

But both also warned about when our actions just aren’t helping. The book went so far to ask how staying in a marriage where there are too many problems is helping the husband—would it be better for the husband if the wife distanced herself? Could she really be helping best that way?

Tackling this with the Lord and his servants may be what you need right now and it might be best for the situation if your wife removed herself.

I want to say, i dont expect my wife to stay by my side. I can only hope she will. I will always be thankful for her influence in my life. She has always inspired me to be a better man.

As far as your thoughts on abuse... I agree with you. People make mistakes and it doesnt mean they are automatically abusive. Which is why i say im not an abusive person. I never did anything to purposely hurt my wife. Ive reacted poorly in tough situations in the past and im feeling the consequences now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations to you both. I notice you didnt mention anything about criticism or having any of your thoughts ridiculed or belittled in any way.

The point is that mild emotional abuse is very very common. I think just about everyone is guilty of being critical at some point. That is the only kind of abuse i am guilty of. Not saying it is ok, im saying beware your judgemental comments and stop making moutains out of mole hills.

Btw, i dont yell at my wife either. The ultimatums were a last resort because i was so tired of waiting for a response. I ended up swallowing my pride on every one too. I repented of each offense.

My husband hasn't belittled me either in all our years of marriage.

I am not saying that my marriage is perfect. It is far from it. DH and I have had issues, baggage from his previous marriage and financial struggles, where, at times, I have seriously been tempted to leave. But, he has never yelled, issued ultimatums, or belittled me in any way. I have never felt frightened of him. Never! He has never thrown an object, or punched holes in walls because of anger or frustration. And he has been frustrated. I'm just trying to say there are more constructive ways to handle differences. If my husband had ever done any of those abusive behaviors, along with viewing porn, plus our specific issues, I would have walked out the door. But, because he is understanding, kind, and repentant, I am willing to stay in a difficult marriage and work things out.

Edited by classylady

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My husband hasn't belittled me either in all our years of marriage.

I am not saying that my marriage is perfect. It is far from it. DH and I have had issues, baggage from his previous marriage and financial struggles, where, at times, I have seriously been tempted to leave. But, he has never yelled, issued ultimatums, or belittled me in any way. I have never felt frightened of him. Never! He has never thrown an object, or punched holes in walls because of anger or frustration. And he has been frustrated. I'm just trying to say there are more constructive ways to handle differences. If my husband had ever done any of those abusive behaviors, along with viewing porn, plus our specific issues, I would have walked out the door. But, because he is understanding, kind, and repentant, I am willing to stay in a difficult marriage and work things out.

I used to say I'd leave if my marriage ever became loveless or sexless. But I've found that I can endure a lot more pain than that with gods help. Without him, I am very weak. It is remarkable how much we can withstand if our hearts and desires are to do gods will. he currently wants me to stay in my marriage despite the hardship, so I stay. I have changed a lot in the last 2 months, but there is still a long way to go. I think heavenly father would have most of us stay where many of us assume it is better to leave. we assume marriage is supposed to be sunshine and happiness, but forget that it is also for our eternal perfection. It challenges us is in ways we never could comprehend when we clasped hands at the altar. It is one of lives biggest challenges and blessings. In my opinion, divorce should be used in the most extreme cases only. Everywhere else forgiveness,, repentance, patience, and the atonement is the solution

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It takes two to make a marriage work. If one party is unwilling to work at it any longer, and decides to leave, then the other should gracefully accept.

True. But it only takes one to turn a marriage around. If one person changes, the dynamics of the marriage change and that can be the starting point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True. But it only takes one to turn a marriage around. If one person changes, the dynamics of the marriage change and that can be the starting point.

Yes, one person can change the dynamics of the marriage. But, if the other party still wants out, there isn't much that can be done. If one party chooses to leave, even after an improvement in the marriage, that is still their choice.

My cousin's marriage ended in divorce. She said she was still willing to try to make things work. Her spouse decided to give up. He left. She said, "what can I do? He has decided he wants a divorce." She gracefully accepted his decision. They had two children. She had done all she could to make the marriage work. He decided it was over. Even if the "right" thing is to try and make a marriage work, in this day and age, people have choices. And one spouse may choose for divorce against the wishes of the other spouse. By trying to force the other spouse to stay, most likely, resentment will follow, and the spouse wanting to divorce becomes more resolved in the decision to leave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you need to understand from your wife's point of view how destructive you have been to the relationship. You state you have not committed adultery, or been abusive. You have freely admitted your addiction. By not "making" it her problem do you really think it wasn't?

By definition we also need to realize what you are telling us needs a heavy discount, this is afterall the internet, and we have not heard your wife's side of the story. There are always 3 versions/stories in these scenarios. Your version, Her version, and the truth. I suspect the truth is somewhat different than what you have described.

All you can do at this point is what you have been doing. But you haven't been married very long, and you have put her through a lot. I cannot say whether divorce is the right decision for her or you, but based on what you have described I would not argue against divorce.

2 months is not a lot of time to "get over" your problems. I have seen so many times when individuals "say" they are getting better, and show improvement, so the other party believes them and much to their dismay there is a relapse/reoccurence of the problem.

There does come a time when enough is enough. It's not an easy decision, and it is obvious your wife is struggling with it. If you love her set her free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find divorce deplorable as well, except in cases of:

ADDICTION

ADULTERY

ABUSE

Based on the facts presented, he's never hit her nor has he committed adultery. Has he crossed the line? Yes, but to say that he's guilty of those three things isn't really fair to the OP. It sounds like the OP is maturing through the adversity that he has caused on his family.

My advice to the OP is to apologize to his wife and be cordial and willing to work things out on her terms. You'll have to acknowledge that the worst case scenario could play out that she won't ever want you back, but leave the door open as long as you can for her to change her mind by dragging things out and letting your intentions be known that you will do everything in your power to try and become the person that she will want to get back together with. That means no ultimatims or duress ever again. Get a handle on her expectations and deliver so that the decisions is easier for her.

Whoever stated that he needs 2-5 years of self improvement doesn't really know the gospel very well. Change of hearts can come overnight. If it becomes a process, he'll progress a lot faster while married than while alone. It's in his best interest to get back together with his wife and daughter, but not necessarily hers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on the facts presented, he's never hit her nor has he committed adultery. Has he crossed the line? Yes, but to say that he's guilty of those three things isn't really fair to the OP. It sounds like the OP is maturing through the adversity that he has caused on his family.

My advice to the OP is to apologize to his wife and be cordial and willing to work things out on her terms. You'll have to acknowledge that the worst case scenario could play out that she won't ever want you back, but leave the door open as long as you can for her to change her mind by dragging things out and letting your intentions be known that you will do everything in your power to try and become the person that she will want to get back together with. That means no ultimatims or duress ever again. Get a handle on her expectations and deliver so that the decisions is easier for her.

Whoever stated that he needs 2-5 years of self improvement doesn't really know the gospel very well. Change of hearts can come overnight. If it becomes a process, he'll progress a lot faster while married than while alone. It's in his best interest to get back together with his wife and daughter, but not necessarily hers.

He can't apologize to her because of the protection order. He can't even ask someone else to apologize to her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He can't apologize to her because of the protection order. He can't even ask someone else to apologize to her.

They are married and have a kid together. Do you honestly believe that he'll never have another conversation with her ever again? Things need to be worked out and talked through. Protection orders are commonplace in adversarial divorces and have a limited duration, so there will be a time when communication will again be sustained. When that time comes, he should be prepared to come back humble and contrite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Magicmormon, trust is such an incredible thing. It can also be a fragile thing. In a marriage trust is essential. You have broken your wife's trust repeatedly and now you expect her to blindly trust you again. Trust doesn't work like that. You have to earn it. It is a building process that takes time. You are in the repentance process and I commend you for that. You have to accept that she needs to sort through all the experiences of the past three years and decide what to do next. Let her make the decision. You cannot bully or force her to an early decision. Pray for her, pray for your marriage. Leave it in the Lord's hands and make sure you are doing EVERYTHING in your power to save your marriage within the confines of the laws. Above all else...Trust that the Lord is mindful of everything going on in your life and He knows both yours and your wife's hearts. Trust him. Learn to trust yourself again. That way your wife can hopefully have the chance to see you as a truly changed individual.

Just my thoughts,

Mags

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on the facts presented, he's never hit her nor has he committed adultery. Has he crossed the line? Yes, but to say that he's guilty of those three things isn't really fair to the OP. It sounds like the OP is maturing through the adversity that he has caused on his family.

My advice to the OP is to apologize to his wife and be cordial and willing to work things out on her terms. You'll have to acknowledge that the worst case scenario could play out that she won't ever want you back, but leave the door open as long as you can for her to change her mind by dragging things out and letting your intentions be known that you will do everything in your power to try and become the person that she will want to get back together with. That means no ultimatims or duress ever again. Get a handle on her expectations and deliver so that the decisions is easier for her.

Whoever stated that he needs 2-5 years of self improvement doesn't really know the gospel very well. Change of hearts can come overnight. If it becomes a process, he'll progress a lot faster while married than while alone. It's in his best interest to get back together with his wife and daughter, but not necessarily hers.

5 years is the statistical average for an abused spouse to recover fully from the abuse. 2 years is the statistical average to merely not be a hot mess. For abusers, actively ADMITTING their abuse -which he is not: he admits, then recants, then justifys, then blame shifts, then poor-me's, then expresses remorse, then recants... Which is just über common manipulative-people-pleasing-abuser behavior....Like über common addict behavior is lying, hiding, promises, breaks promise, lies, hides... This guy is showing all the signs of CLASSIC red-flag abuser-, anyhow, for those ACTUALLY ADMITTING and working to control their abuse & manipulation tendencies... The numbers are similar. 2-3 years of intensive therapy & 2-3 years additional in living what they're been learning.

2-5 years ALSO is the average period of time that an addict in recovery (without relapses) takes to get really solid. There's a durn good reason why 12 step chits go on the cycles they do up to 2 years, and then its "just" recovery birthdays. The first 2 years = hot mess.

A change of HEART???

Yes. That can and usually does take moments.

In addiction land... That's known as a "moment of clarity".

In abuse? That's a lot more complex & deep seated... Which I'm too tired to get into the whole psychopathology of right now. But it takes YEARS to change patterns of behavior, emotional knee jerk reactions, etc... And that's IF AND ONLY IF the abuse is recognized, and that person is actively working with pros to learn emotional monitoring & regulation, cognitive awareness, and is working on changing long held attitudes and patterns of behavior.

A lot of people get there. ESP those with family of origin issues who swore they'd never be like their abusive parent and look in the mirror and SEE that parent staring back at them (through the eyes of a miserable or terrified spouse or child, most often).

I thought, in the beginning, that the OP was there.

Its become really clear, however, he's not.

He's recanting instead of repenting.

Seeking sympathy instead of counsel.

And is one big flashing neon sign

Which is why Im responding to you, instead of him.

Any words from me are wasted on him.

I'm hoping, though, that you can see that knowing the gospel has nothing to do with a very pragmatic/normal timeframe for recovery from abusive behavior & addictions. God very rarely causes miracles to instantly heal someone (usually we need to see the doctor, get the bones set, do our physical therapy)

... And while I'm sure that DOES happen, lying in the road after being in a car crash COUNTING on god to do the heavy lifting, is just generally a bad idea.

Which is what the idea of NOT counting on several years of hard work to change systems of thought and patterns of behavior equates to.

True repentence requires action (not just reaction).

Action takes time.

But it also requires acknowledgement. And he's already back peddled on that. Which is heartbreaking. Common, but heartbreaking. Abusers are usually only sorry for brief periods of time. And also sadly, usually only sorry for how its affecting them, instead of how they've affected others.

Cycle of abuse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this