Advice on my marriage problems


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5 years is the statistical average for an abused spouse to recover fully from the abuse. 2 years is the statistical average to merely not be a hot mess. For abusers, actively ADMITTING their abuse -which he is not: he admits, then recants, then justifys, then blame shifts, then poor-me's, then expresses remorse, then recants... Which is just über common manipulative-people-pleasing-abuser behavior....Like über common addict behavior is lying, hiding, promises, breaks promise, lies, hides... This guy is showing all the signs of CLASSIC red-flag abuser-, anyhow, for those ACTUALLY ADMITTING and working to control their abuse & manipulation tendencies... The numbers are similar. 2-3 years of intensive therapy & 2-3 years additional in living what they're been learning.

2-5 years ALSO is the average period of time that an addict in recovery (without relapses) takes to get really solid. There's a durn good reason why 12 step chits go on the cycles they do up to 2 years, and then its "just" recovery birthdays. The first 2 years = hot mess.

A change of HEART???

Yes. That can and usually does take moments.

In addiction land... That's known as a "moment of clarity".

In abuse? That's a lot more complex & deep seated... Which I'm too tired to get into the whole psychopathology of right now. But it takes YEARS to change patterns of behavior, emotional knee jerk reactions, etc... And that's IF AND ONLY IF the abuse is recognized, and that person is actively working with pros to learn emotional monitoring & regulation, cognitive awareness, and is working on changing long held attitudes and patterns of behavior.

A lot of people get there. ESP those with family of origin issues who swore they'd never be like their abusive parent and look in the mirror and SEE that parent staring back at them (through the eyes of a miserable or terrified spouse or child, most often).

I thought, in the beginning, that the OP was there.

Its become really clear, however, he's not.

He's recanting instead of repenting.

Seeking sympathy instead of counsel.

And is one big flashing neon sign

Which is why Im responding to you, instead of him.

Any words from me are wasted on him.

I'm hoping, though, that you can see that knowing the gospel has nothing to do with a very pragmatic/normal timeframe for recovery from abusive behavior & addictions. God very rarely causes miracles to instantly heal someone (usually we need to see the doctor, get the bones set, do our physical therapy)

... And while I'm sure that DOES happen, lying in the road after being in a car crash COUNTING on god to do the heavy lifting, is just generally a bad idea.

Which is what the idea of NOT counting on several years of hard work to change systems of thought and patterns of behavior equates to.

True repentence requires action (not just reaction).

Action takes time.

But it also requires acknowledgement. And he's already back peddled on that. Which is heartbreaking. Common, but heartbreaking. Abusers are usually only sorry for brief periods of time. And also sadly, usually only sorry for how its affecting them, instead of how they've affected others.

Cycle of abuse.

You seem unwilling to examine the facts. Instead, you are awfully quick to judge him deficient for marriage. Let's break down his actions:

1) Abuse - He punched a wall and throwing a cell phone across a room that she wasn't in. He is adamant that no physical abuse has occurred nor are there allegations of sexual abuse, and it's a little fuzzy what the extent of psychological/mental/emotional abuse is.

Let me tell you a story. My father was psychologically abusive to my mother for years when he lost his temper. You see my dad was imperfect and he struggled with anger in his 20s and 30s. There were a couple times, that my mom could have justifiably left the marriage, but she hung in there instead. After a number of years, my dad mellowed and didn't lose his temper very often anymore. In fact, he was called to be the bishop of our ward. During his tenure as bishop, he called in young men from less active families that everybody had given up on and persuaded them to serve missions. A couple of them followed through and served missions. How did he do it? He relayed the message that God knows imperfect people and wants them to be better. There were other members in the stake that were offended that these kids made it into the mission field despite their shady past, yet today those kids are valiant church members because my dad didn't give up and more importantly my mom didn't give up on my dad when adversity hit.

His wife may be justified in giving up on the marriage, but that doesn't mean she should. Based on the information revealed thus far, it certainly isn't a no brainer that she should leave with abuse as the justification.

2) Adultery - His experience with the massage parlor wasn't foreseeable and wasn't premeditated. He gave into a moment of weakness, but showed some self-restraint in the end. This incident by itself does not justify anybody leaving the marriage.

3) Addiction - His wife knew about his struggles prior to the marriage. It sounds like the OP is trying to work through his issues. If all the women in the church left their husbands that struggle with pornography, there wouldn't be many marriages left.

Do you remember Enos and Alma the Younger? Enos had his sins forgiven him through one prayer. Alma the Younger changed overnight from a very wicked disposition.

I certainly am not discrediting your research on abuse and addiction, but I fail to see based on these facts that he is the bad abuser that you claim. Instead, you seem to haphazardly be condemning him not worthy of being in his marriage. He is not a lost cause if he can turn things around. I'd rather see him work through his issues with addiction while married where he can be a father to his daughter. I'm also not convinced that the abuse he described justifies a divorce. Imperfect people should stay married if they can.

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For abusers, actively ADMITTING their abuse -which he is not: he admits, then recants, then justifys, then blame shifts, then poor-me's, then expresses remorse, then recants... Which is just über common manipulative-people-pleasing-abuser behavior....

This is simply not a truthful characterization of what magicmormon has said. It looks to me much more like you have decided he's an abuser, so therefore whatever he writes you interpret through that lens.

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Badwolf, just curious, but you got your PhD in psychology focusing on spousal abuse from where?... All joking aside what is the difference between a true abuser and someone who has just reacted poorly in a few situations? They are both going to make the scenario seem downplayed. They are both going to deny being abusive. The only difference is one of them is telling the truth. While the other is in denial. Either way the atonement can and will solve the problem, not divorce.

Thanks for your comments and your right about one thing, I'm not going to listen to them. you are welcome to move along now that you've wasted your breath here.

Edited by magicmormon
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Hey man, Your post seems a bit narcissistic. You still seem to be selfish you have just changed angles. I too share a past with that scourge. It's gone now. I will tell you a lil bout me and you can decide for your self. for years I was wrapped up in Porn and vanity. After our 1st child my wifes sex drive vanished. I mean ALL gone. I did similar things. I Narcissistically manipulated her into believing she owed me chances after chances. we were on the rocks so bad it was a hostile room mate situation. 9 years of that. all the while I would go through the cycle of Try and fail. She hated me and loved me all at once because outside of the filthy bedroom situation I created for us I was a great,sweet thoughtfull guy. A few years back I ended up befriending a Nazerine guy who's wife had a surgery that rendered her completely un able to have sex with out excruciating pain. He was suffering the throngs of never having intimacy again. About a 1 1/2 yr of knowing him he was getting better at staying morally clean and not "NEEDING" physical touch.

We talked a lot about this stuff as I desperately needed to hear it. He said he had realized that our modern coulter had taught him it was a right to use her body=FALSE! he automatically turned to the computer and attention of other women when that right was not available out of justification= FALSE! After almost loosing her he did something that changed the game. He realized that he was a victim of a cultural lie, So to meet his wife where she was at he "killed his sex drive mentally" he realized his desire to be touched and sex drive was a FALSE GOD in his mind. He kicked it out and "MORNED IT'S DEATH" (MENTALLY) it took a while but it worked.

I too have taken this approach to my libido and It takes a while but it works! Now I will tell you this. It's like a goat head plant. It will regerminate depending on your lifes weather. But it is easier and easier to kill your desires every time you have to do it.

As for your wife? Respect her decision with out malice or contention. You mister have ripped from her the very thing a woman fantasizes about from child hood. a beautiful wedding with prince charming and happily ever after is now a lie to her. She got a beautiful wedding with a freak who thinks with his genitals. This kind of screw up is what lead my wifes friend to remarrying an non member and becoming non denominational Christian! She was a scorned woman who turned her back on the whole fiascle because her 1st husband couldn't pull himself together. I don't think she owes you any respect or to come back. You owe it to your self and your child and GOD to get your act together man! That kid NEEDS a Dad who has his head on straight no matter how your marriage end or ends up. Leave her alone, you broke it. It's done, just paper work to do now. Chances seem gone. You do you and HOPE she lets you interact with that little girl. Good luck on your fight with that lie you have been believing.

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Hey man, Your post seems a bit narcissistic. You still seem to be selfish you have just changed angles. I too share a past with that scourge. It's gone now. I will tell you a lil bout me and you can decide for your self. for years I was wrapped up in Porn and vanity. After our 1st child my wifes sex drive vanished. I mean ALL gone. I did similar things. I Narcissistically manipulated her into believing she owed me chances after chances. we were on the rocks so bad it was a hostile room mate situation. 9 years of that. all the while I would go through the cycle of Try and fail. She hated me and loved me all at once because outside of the filthy bedroom situation I created for us I was a great,sweet thoughtfull guy. A few years back I ended up befriending a Nazerine guy who's wife had a surgery that rendered her completely un able to have sex with out excruciating pain. He was suffering the throngs of never having intimacy again. About a 1 1/2 yr of knowing him he was getting better at staying morally clean and not "NEEDING" physical touch.

We talked a lot about this stuff as I desperately needed to hear it. He said he had realized that our modern coulter had taught him it was a right to use her body=FALSE! he automatically turned to the computer and attention of other women when that right was not available out of justification= FALSE! After almost loosing her he did something that changed the game. He realized that he was a victim of a cultural lie, So to meet his wife where she was at he "killed his sex drive mentally" he realized his desire to be touched and sex drive was a FALSE GOD in his mind. He kicked it out and "MORNED IT'S DEATH" (MENTALLY) it took a while but it worked.

I too have taken this approach to my libido and It takes a while but it works! Now I will tell you this. It's like a goat head plant. It will regerminate depending on your lifes weather. But it is easier and easier to kill your desires every time you have to do it.

As for your wife? Respect her decision with out malice or contention. You mister have ripped from her the very thing a woman fantasizes about from child hood. a beautiful wedding with prince charming and happily ever after is now a lie to her. She got a beautiful wedding with a freak who thinks with his genitals. This kind of screw up is what lead my wifes friend to remarrying an non member and becoming non denominational Christian! She was a scorned woman who turned her back on the whole fiascle because her 1st husband couldn't pull himself together. I don't think she owes you any respect or to come back. You owe it to your self and your child and GOD to get your act together man! That kid NEEDS a Dad who has his head on straight no matter how your marriage end or ends up. Leave her alone, you broke it. It's done, just paper work to do now. Chances seem gone. You do you and HOPE she lets you interact with that little girl. Good luck on your fight with that lie you have been believing.

Your focus is a little narrow. the marriage is not over, she hasn't yet filed divorce papers. I am not supposed to divorce her. I agree, my daughter needs her father. I believe I should be allowed back into my home. I don't expect it to happen soon or even at all. I can still cling to hope. These are the people and things I care about and I want to earn that trust again. For now I am just focused on changing what I can change and accepting the things I cannot.

As for killing my desire for sex. I'm not sure that is wise. Abstinence is not sobriety. Sex wasn't what's wrong with me. My desire to lust is the problem. I have a 12 step program that will guide me to overcome that. God will remove that desire from my heart as I become more and more committed to doing his will. I have already begun to have a change of heart, but it may be years or even th rest of my life before that desire completely vanishes. Getting to a point where I am maintaining sobriety is my goal. It's all about choosing to remain humble, thankful, and reliant on God. It's a life long process for all of us.

Edited by magicmormon
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Good for you! :) You seem to be on the right track. I just wanted to be as real as possable with you brother. So, Mourning the death of your sexual desire will be a huge game changer. Offering it up as a sacrifice to God is how I did it. He rewarded me greatly for it and so did my super hot wife with absolutely NO labido(what a confusing time that was). Our relationship is pure love and understanding. So much deeper than the super ficsial physical relationship we had. So you know our physical relationship still happens,now and then. But the time in between isn't spent with aingst and anxiety on my part. It's no big deal anymore. FWEEEW! I'm FREE ! In Feb it will be our 17 year Anniversary. only 3 of that has been spent free from the scourge of believing I am entitled to her and my sexuallity is a right. I finally have found Christ, because I gave my self to Him. Good luck man

P.S. don't think it didn't come with about 2 years of crying and pleading to GOD every other night to take it away from me. He answered me with great spiritual reward.

Edited by redi2ride
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I see nothing wrong with having a healthy sexual desire. God put it there for a reason, I won't be asking him to neuter me in any way. Misusing that desire by consuming pornography and masturbating are the problem. I ask God to change my desires to his desires.

Maybe that's what you meant by giving up your sexual desires and I was just reading to much into it. Anyways, it is a process that is painful and slow, but where there is great effort, there are great rewards. Anything worth doing in life isn't easy.

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You seem unwilling to examine the facts. Instead, you are awfully quick to judge him deficient for marriage. Let's break down his actions:

1) Abuse - He punched a wall and throwing a cell phone across a room that she wasn't in. He is adamant that no physical abuse has occurred nor are there allegations of sexual abuse, and it's a little fuzzy what the extent of psychological/mental/emotional abuse is.

Let me tell you a story. My father was psychologically abusive to my mother for years when he lost his temper. You see my dad was imperfect and he struggled with anger in his 20s and 30s. There were a couple times, that my mom could have justifiably left the marriage, but she hung in there instead. After a number of years, my dad mellowed and didn't lose his temper very often anymore. In fact, he was called to be the bishop of our ward. During his tenure as bishop, he called in young men from less active families that everybody had given up on and persuaded them to serve missions. A couple of them followed through and served missions. How did he do it? He relayed the message that God knows imperfect people and wants them to be better. There were other members in the stake that were offended that these kids made it into the mission field despite their shady past, yet today those kids are valiant church members because my dad didn't give up and more importantly my mom didn't give up on my dad when adversity hit.

His wife may be justified in giving up on the marriage, but that doesn't mean she should. Based on the information revealed thus far, it certainly isn't a no brainer that she should leave with abuse as the justification.

2) Adultery - His experience with the massage parlor wasn't foreseeable and wasn't premeditated. He gave into a moment of weakness, but showed some self-restraint in the end. This incident by itself does not justify anybody leaving the marriage.

3) Addiction - His wife knew about his struggles prior to the marriage. It sounds like the OP is trying to work through his issues. If all the women in the church left their husbands that struggle with pornography, there wouldn't be many marriages left.

Do you remember Enos and Alma the Younger? Enos had his sins forgiven him through one prayer. Alma the Younger changed overnight from a very wicked disposition.

I certainly am not discrediting your research on abuse and addiction, but I fail to see based on these facts that he is the bad abuser that you claim. Instead, you seem to haphazardly be condemning him not worthy of being in his marriage. He is not a lost cause if he can turn things around. I'd rather see him work through his issues with addiction while married where he can be a father to his daughter. I'm also not convinced that the abuse he described justifies a divorce. Imperfect people should stay married if they can.

My sponsor talked about Alma the younger the other night. I'm not sure I want to go through what he went through. Instead of being racked with his sins piece by piece over a length of time , he experienced all the pain at once. It must have been a terribly awful thing to experience before he was forgiven. We all pay a price, but it is just a small reminder the pain we caused our savior and what he felt for us during the atonement.

I am only beginning to understand that pain through longsuffering. My relationship with my savior needs work.

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Magicmormon--

Regardless of what happens in your marriage, all is not lost. You can make a beautiful life for yourself. There is hope. Keep attending your 12-step meetings. Working the steps is The Solution. Do you have a sponsor? If you choose to go to Sexaholics Anonymous, you can find a sponsor there. A sponsor is such a helpful resource.

Maybe you couldn't stop on your own. Neither could I. With my sexual addiction, my methods of acting out are a little bit different from yours, and actually worse. But I have been working the steps...working the program. And, I am Finally sober. So, miracles DO happen. Our Savior, the One who healed the sick, raised the dead, caused the lame to walk and the blind to receive their sight, He can heal us. This miracle can happen for you. I've seen it happen in my life and in the lives of others.

Not sure about how it has been for you, but for me, so many times I asked God to take this addiction from me. He never did because He allowed me to choose for myself what I wanted to do. But through the 12 steps, I've learned how to let God into my life so that I can let go and let God in so that He can help me. And He can and will help us when He is truly sought.

I have faith in you--that you can turn your life around. Maybe you're not where you'd like to be or where you feel you should be in your life. You can get there. You are a son of God and He NEVER gives up on you.

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Magicmormon--

Regardless of what happens in your marriage, all is not lost. You can make a beautiful life for yourself. There is hope. Keep attending your 12-step meetings. Working the steps is The Solution. Do you have a sponsor? If you choose to go to Sexaholics Anonymous, you can find a sponsor there. A sponsor is such a helpful resource.

Maybe you couldn't stop on your own. Neither could I. With my sexual addiction, my methods of acting out are a little bit different from yours, and actually worse. But I have been working the steps...working the program. And, I am Finally sober. So, miracles DO happen. Our Savior, the One who healed the sick, raised the dead, caused the lame to walk and the blind to receive their sight, He can heal us. This miracle can happen for you. I've seen it happen in my life and in the lives of others.

Not sure about how it has been for you, but for me, so many times I asked God to take this addiction from me. He never did because He allowed me to choose for myself what I wanted to do. But through the 12 steps, I've learned how to let God into my life so that I can let go and let God in so that He can help me. And He can and will help us when He is truly sought.

I have faith in you--that you can turn your life around. Maybe you're not where you'd like to be or where you feel you should be in your life. You can get there. You are a son of God and He NEVER gives up on you.

This was the first thing I read this morning. It was nice to wake up and read something inspirational.

Btw, my wife still hasnt filed for divorce. I thought for sure that she would file within this last week. It was a perfect time for her to do it if she wanted.

I am trying to come up with ways to woo her in the most difficult circumstances. Instead of cutting her off financially, I want to pay all the bills and send a check for as much as i can afford so that she and my daughter have more than enough for thier needs.

I make sure to be cordial and humble around my mother in law. I go on walks with her when i get an oppotunity to see my daughter. I share my insights, spiritual thoughts, and I express to her what I wish would happen. I cant and dont ask her to convey any messages to my wife, but I am aware that my wife will learn much of what i express to her mother.

Hopefully she shares nice things about me, she is in a position to cripple and destroy my relationship completely if she desired. I can only remain patient and take life one step at a time.

Does anyone have any ideas about what else I could do to woo her without breaking the law?

Edited by magicmormon
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Hey, just checking in. So, asking God to take my sexual desire is exactly what I asked him to do. I do see something wrong with "having a healthy sexual desire" if your spouse has NONE. desire is an attitude of entittlement mixed with anatomy. The physical can be dumbed down a lot with the right attitude. Let's face it. If your one to have the NEED to saticefy your desire after 1 1/2 months of rejection from the impotent wife. It will ware you down if you don't stay on top of it 24/7, especially if the relationship is highly loving and stable. It is better that God help you have no desire at all ,than you carry one with a loaded gun. If she comes to you after the desire is gone. You will be able to recipicate her affection. but the "desire" to start it is not present. Now, every once in a while I will get lazy on my praying and reading, this slacks me off a bit and I can feel sexual desire creeping back in. So I step it up a bit with a little extra effort and It passes easily. The funny thing is . She comes to me a lot more than if I go to her now. Sure she comes to me for love afirmation or just being generous with me out of realization of her long time impotence. But, there is enough between us now we are for the most part,happy. BTW the thought of Porn makes me Ill now. just typing those words did. I realy wish the best for you. This is the recipie that helps me. take it or leave it.

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Hey, just checking in. So, asking God to take my sexual desire is exactly what I asked him to do. I do see something wrong with "having a healthy sexual desire" if your spouse has NONE. desire is an attitude of entittlement mixed with anatomy. The physical can be dumbed down a lot with the right attitude. Let's face it. If your one to have the NEED to saticefy your desire after 1 1/2 months of rejection from the impotent wife. It will ware you down if you don't stay on top of it 24/7, especially if the relationship is highly loving and stable. It is better that God help you have no desire at all ,than you carry one with a loaded gun. If she comes to you after the desire is gone. You will be able to recipicate her affection. but the "desire" to start it is not present. Now, every once in a while I will get lazy on my praying and reading, this slacks me off a bit and I can feel sexual desire creeping back in. So I step it up a bit with a little extra effort and It passes easily. The funny thing is . She comes to me a lot more than if I go to her now. Sure she comes to me for love afirmation or just being generous with me out of realization of her long time impotence. But, there is enough between us now we are for the most part,happy. BTW the thought of Porn makes me Ill now. just typing those words did. I realy wish the best for you. This is the recipie that helps me. take it or leave it.

I get it. Your marriage is more important to you than having your needs met. You've settled for less. Thank you for your advice, hopefully I dont have to settle for less. If I am put in that situation it may be my best alternative. Btw, i too am disgusted by pornography. It is filthy, ugly, and sickening. If i wasnt addicted i'd be nowhere near it ever.

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I get it. Your marriage is more important to you than having your needs met. You've settled for less. Thank you for your advice, hopefully I dont have to settle for less. If I am put in that situation it may be my best alternative. Btw, i too am disgusted by pornography. It is filthy, ugly, and sickening. If i wasnt addicted i'd be nowhere near it ever.

I doubt one man in a hundred feels this way by nature.

Women may well look at pornography and say, "Ewwww! Gross!" I've never been a woman, so I can't say for sure. But men do not. The vast majority of men find pornography alluring on a carnal level. If they think about pornography involving their wife/daughter/sister/mother, they might then say, "Ewwwww! Gross!" And that might in turn lead them to consider the evil and poisonous effects of pornography and conclude, as many men have done (especially LDS men), that pornography is indeed "filthy, ugly, and sickening."

The problem comes when LDS women think that LDS men should naturally feel that way. That simply is not how it works, sisters.

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I doubt one man in a hundred feels this way by nature.

Women may well look at pornography and say, "Ewwww! Gross!" I've never been a woman, so I can't say for sure. But men do not. The vast majority of men find pornography alluring on a carnal level. If they think about pornography involving their wife/daughter/sister/mother, they might then say, "Ewwwww! Gross!" And that might in turn lead them to consider the evil and poisonous effects of pornography and conclude, as many men have done (especially LDS men), that pornography is indeed "filthy, ugly, and sickening."

The problem comes when LDS women think that LDS men should naturally feel that way. That simply is not how it works, sisters.

This is unfortunately true. I wish it wasn't, but that is why this problem is spreading like a plague. I try to warn others before it becomes a problem, but usually it's too late. You don't realize it's a problem till you try to stop.

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I posted a reply from my phone yesterday but it didn't upload. bummer :( .Take it or leave it. But my heart goes out to you because I don't feel you realize what kind of trouble you are up against. I am NOT judgeing you. I am merely spilling out my experiance in hopes you can gleem some usefull tools from my success in fixing myself and my marriage. So, in short I didn't settle for less. I realized that my desire and artifitially pumped up labido was causing a lot of undo stress in our marriage. I changed my mind about what IS important. Having a healthy sexual desire in a relationship where my wife is completely impotent to any desire would counter intuitive. Hanging on to a healthy desire is selfish at that point. That is the point I was trying to convea . If your not willing to admit that it is a selfish endevor regardless of the damage in trust and expectations you have repeativly violated then you are not ready for much more than more counseling. I think( just my opinion)your campaign to win over her mom and say things like" deserve to be home" are typical of guys who don't get it yet. example: I was kicked out of my house due to my addiction. I was MAD! that I couldn't be in my own home. I NEVER showed any physical aggression toward her. I wasn't even a yeller. I had no where to go and she needed child care while she was gone at work. so I lived in my garage at night in the winter and had to leave all day untill needed. That was torcher. but she didn't calm down untill I shut up and let go and excepted that I had no right to anything anymore. Complete submission to her will was the only way she was able to even start to contemplate trust again. I had to let her go for her to want to come back. That my friend is scary.

Identify your dirty thought triggers. mine were a couple things. rejection(a half hug when I was wanting a squeeze),being told no I'm not in the mood after she flirted with me and it's been weeks,When IT did happen it was purely a utility duty for her,covering herself when I entered the bedroom,it got to the point even her quickly turning her eye's away when I gazed too long.All this out of fear I would persue sex if given a signal it was ok. (keep in mind this is years of my crazy expectations pilling on top of a mom who has NO desire and even some discomfort during it. ). The rejection started a spiral of resentment and passive aggressive thought. which if I wasn't paying attention, turned into a couple excitment filled,passive aggressive justifications,seeking to saticfy my right to gratification with a computor. (How pathetic is that?!)So I opted out of that game. Sorry this reply doesn't flow well. I am in and out of my office working . No time for grammer or spelling.lol.

BTW. IMO Porn is the only plague that hurts God. It's the only transmitable plague that can RIP his children from his grasp! all other plagues just send us home to him early.

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I posted a reply from my phone yesterday but it didn't upload. bummer :( .Take it or leave it. But my heart goes out to you because I don't feel you realize what kind of trouble you are up against. I am NOT judgeing you. I am merely spilling out my experiance in hopes you can gleem some usefull tools from my success in fixing myself and my marriage. So, in short I didn't settle for less. I realized that my desire and artifitially pumped up labido was causing a lot of undo stress in our marriage. I changed my mind about what IS important. Having a healthy sexual desire in a relationship where my wife is completely impotent to any desire would counter intuitive. Hanging on to a healthy desire is selfish at that point. That is the point I was trying to convea . If your not willing to admit that it is a selfish endevor regardless of the damage in trust and expectations you have repeativly violated then you are not ready for much more than more counseling. I think( just my opinion)your campaign to win over her mom and say things like" deserve to be home" are typical of guys who don't get it yet. example: I was kicked out of my house due to my addiction. I was MAD! that I couldn't be in my own home. I NEVER showed any physical aggression toward her. I wasn't even a yeller. I had no where to go and she needed child care while she was gone at work. so I lived in my garage at night in the winter and had to leave all day untill needed. That was torcher. but she didn't calm down untill I shut up and let go and excepted that I had no right to anything anymore. Complete submission to her will was the only way she was able to even start to contemplate trust again. I had to let her go for her to want to come back. That my friend is scary.

Identify your dirty thought triggers. mine were a couple things. rejection(a half hug when I was wanting a squeeze),being told no I'm not in the mood after she flirted with me and it's been weeks,When IT did happen it was purely a utility duty for her,covering herself when I entered the bedroom,it got to the point even her quickly turning her eye's away when I gazed too long.All this out of fear I would persue sex if given a signal it was ok. (keep in mind this is years of my crazy expectations pilling on top of a mom who has NO desire and even some discomfort during it. ). The rejection started a spiral of resentment and passive aggressive thought. which if I wasn't paying attention, turned into a couple excitment filled,passive aggressive justifications,seeking to saticfy my right to gratification with a computor. (How pathetic is that?!)So I opted out of that game. Sorry this reply doesn't flow well. I am in and out of my office working . No time for grammer or spelling.lol.

I am so sorry for what you have gone through with your marriage and learning to control your sexual desires. I know it would be good to master your sexual desires to this degree, but I don't know if the extent your have referenced is necessary. My wife has little to no sexual desire regarding sex. We have visited with multiple LDS marriage and sex counselors to discuss some issues. Since my wife has no idea what I experience and the cravings I have sexually for her, she thinks that I should be able to just turn my desires off.

Skipping a ton of details, one of the things discussed was "his needs, her needs." There is a wonderful book about this. The concept goes a little like this. When my daughter asks me to read a book to her before bed, often I do not feel like doing it, but I do it anyway because she needs that time from me. If my wife ignored me "completely," I would begin to hate her with time because I know there is no real reason that would prevent us from having sexual relations. It would be completely selfish on her part. I would feel that she did not care enough for me to give something that makes me feel very close to her-a bond if you will. You would call this selfish, but I believe more selfishness would be on the other side because I have no switch to shut this drive off. Discipline only goes so far when I have no absolute to use to excuse the behavior. I have learned to be more than fair and very patient. Why would a women do something like that to their spouse if the reason was lack of desire? This confuses me. I do things for my family all the time that is just to show them how much I love them.

Lunch time! I may add more of my thoughts later. I'm sure I opened a can on this one.

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I can understand a lack of sexual desire, and I can also understand having an unhealthy, ugly view of sex based on earlier incidents of sexual abuse or molestation. Both of these things make sense to me.

What does not make sense to me is a spouse refusing to engage in sex for extended periods, merely because she (or he) lacks sexual desire. If she (he) is suffering from some deep-seated sexual anxiety based on abuse or molestation, I get that. But barring that, what kind of loving spouse would refuse sex merely because she (he) doesn't want it?

Yes, sex is an intimate giving of yourself. So is reading a bedtime story, taking the kids to the amusement park, or going to see the vampire movie with your spouse. You do those other things even if you don't particularly feel like it. So why is sex somehow different? I think it is not, and I guess I'm just a bit scandalized at the idea that a spouse would withhold sex for extended periods. Weeks on end? Months? Seriously?

Despite my strong statements, I am very willing to listen to explanations. But if the explanations are of the general type saying, "Look, if you don't want sex, you don't have to have sex," then I will not find them compelling.

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I can understand a lack of sexual desire, and I can also understand having an unhealthy, ugly view of sex based on earlier incidents of sexual abuse or molestation. Both of these things make sense to me.

What does not make sense to me is a spouse refusing to engage in sex for extended periods, merely because she (or he) lacks sexual desire. If she (he) is suffering from some deep-seated sexual anxiety based on abuse or molestation, I get that. But barring that, what kind of loving spouse would refuse sex merely because she (he) doesn't want it?

Yes, sex is an intimate giving of yourself. So is reading a bedtime story, taking the kids to the amusement park, or going to see the vampire movie with your spouse. You do those other things even if you don't particularly feel like it. So why is sex somehow different? I think it is not, and I guess I'm just a bit scandalized at the idea that a spouse would withhold sex for extended periods. Weeks on end? Months? Seriously?

Despite my strong statements, I am very willing to listen to explanations. But if the explanations are of the general type saying, "Look, if you don't want sex, you don't have to have sex," then I will not find them compelling.

x2 I agree comletely with what is stated above. I do not understand the withholding of sex simply because someone doesn't want to. I do lots of things I don't want to do, but can find intrensic joy in doing them simply because they are an act of service for another. At a minimum that is what motivates me to do those things.

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Glanced over a few of the latter posts.

My husband and I enjoy active intimacy and on a frequent basis. In a nutshell, sex is not a weak point in our marriage. That said, there are some days (between being a stay at home mother and being 1-1 all day with my kiddo, on top of doing chores and running errands) where I'm physically and mentally drained, and the last thing on my mind is intimacy. These days are seldom but when I do have them, my forward answer is, "I'm not in the mood." And my husband gets it. Personally speaking, intimacy with a spouse is not comparable to reading a storybook to your child at night. Being a woman, sometimes our bodies have stuff going on where intimacy itself is just un appealing (like premenstrual swings, menstrual cycles, or pregnancy) and intimacy may be postponed but not withheld just to be a witch. So there are valid reasons for: I'm not in the mood (as a short answer).

I think withholding ANY kind of affection from your spouse out of spite is unacceptable. If there are legitimate underlying issues that are preventing a spouse (male or female) from being intimate, it's time to make a doctor visit, and in the meantime - support and patience are needed from the other spouse.

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I'd say an occasional "I'm just not in the mood" is worlds apart from too-frequent or extended periods of "I'm just not in the mood".

Husband and I, most of the time, will be intimate with each other even if only one of us is really up for it, though I'm happy that most of the time we're both up for it (though we just had a morning of confession of just how unsexy both of us found pregnancy no matter how much all the books and society tries to deny it). However, we've both had a few times when one of us REALLY was not in the mood and just wasn't up for going at it.

Husbands and wives need to respect each other. Yes, I think there is much to be said for pleasing your partner. But there's also something to be said for letting your partner have a much-needed priority that doesn't happen to be sex with you.

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This is a long thread and I'm just joining in, which is kind of awkward, but since I haven't seen any comments from an abused wife yet . . .

My husband didn't only emotionally abuse me, he physically abused me. Guess what? The physical abuse wasn't what hurt the most. I've talked to other women in my same situation and found that they say the same thing--every last one of them. It's the emotional abuse that kills.

You want to know what was at the heart of the emotional abuse? It was that my husband used me like he owned me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that he felt he had a right to my body, my services, my time, my life. He wanted everything on his terms. My desires didn't matter to him as long as he got what he wanted.

I gave him sex every time he wanted it. But I went years--YEARS--without getting my sexual needs fulfilled. Don't think it was because he didn't know. I told him what I needed but he just never had time. It wasn't important enough to him. I wasn't important enough to him.

He killed my desire for him. When we were dating, I was crazy for him. I couldn't wait for our wedding night. But after not too long he had just plain wore me out. He took, and took, and took, and took, until I didn't have anything else to give. I didn't decide that I didn't want him sexually anymore, it just happened, because he asked everything--and more--but gave as little as possible in return.

I left him over the emotional abuse. I could take the physical. In fact, after he had spent over an hour beating me up one time, I felt empowered. I had been so scared that I would cave in when he hurt me--I knew it was coming--but instead every pain I suffered only hardened my resolve to never give in. The feeling of freedom was so intoxicating that before the fight was over, I was intentionally goading him on. In the end that time, I was the one who got what I wanted and he was the one who had to let me do what I wanted.

But I couldn't fight the emotional abuse. And don't think it was all verbal. Oh, sure, he criticized me sometimes. But it wasn't that. It was the dirty looks, the change of behavior, the change of mood, whenever I did something that didn't please him. Even his compliments were demeaning because he didn't mean them. They were so patronizing, like I was a little child, just spoken to appease me, not because he actually appreciated anything I was doing.

In the end I realized I had a choice. I could either make my own choices as to what was wrong and right, do what I felt I should, and live with a man who was angry with me for not bowing to his whims; or I could live as a slave to someone else's desires. Or I could leave. Eventually, I had to leave.

I love my husband so much it nearly killed me to leave him. I honestly wanted to die. I thought about killing myself. But when I think about returning, it is just as bad. I can't go back. That would kill me too.

If he changed, I would be back with him in an instant. If he really changed. But he doesn't and he can't, because he can't accept this one truth: that he has no power to change himself. His solutions to the problem are always the same: try harder, act differently, be better. He says: this is what I'm going to do from now on. And yet I know he can't. Because at heart he is still the same person. And so eventually, he's going to wear down and go back to his true nature. I've seen it happen again and again. Only the Savior can change his nature, and yet he doesn't turn to Him. He keeps turning to himself and trying to do it all himself. He has no power.

I'm not going to give you any advice accept one thing: don't compare yourself to my husband and think you're doing okay because you're not as bad as him. If you do, you'll lose any chance of understanding what your wife might be going through. I would bet that if she is everything you have said about her, then it hurt her too, to block you out of her life. She might just be hurting as bad as I am, wanting to go back and knowing she can't.

If there is to be any chance of you getting her back, you have to go forward. You have to let go of her and learn to cling to the Lord instead. The Lord teaches us that it is the person who loses their life who gains it. If you don't let her go, you'll never get her back.

Okay, I lied. That's another piece of advice. So since I'm on a roll, I might as well go on and give you one more. Turn to the Savior. Forget about your wife because you can't do anything with her now. Just look to the Savior and let Him sort things out. I can't promise you that that will get you your wife back, but I can promise you that in the end you will have everything your heart desires.

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I left him over the emotional abuse. I could take the physical. In fact, after he had spent over an hour beating me up one time, I felt empowered. I had been so scared that I would cave in when he hurt me--I knew it was coming--but instead every pain I suffered only hardened my resolve to never give in. The feeling of freedom was so intoxicating that before the fight was over, I was intentionally goading him on. In the end that time, I was the one who got what I wanted and he was the one who had to let me do what I wanted.

This paragraph reminded me of this book:

Man's Search for Meaning: Viktor E. Frankl: 9780807014295: Amazon.com: Books

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