What do adult converts bring to the Church


prisonchaplain
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I wonder if any here could share a time when you said something and a member raised in the church responded, "Wow, I never thought of it that way before."

My ex-wife had that reaction to her questions on a regular basis when she came to church with me. It was usually in Gospel Doctrine. At first she came away upset that she had 'caused such a scene' but the teacher told her "Are you kidding? I've never gotten this bunch to talk and discuss so readily! Your questions are getting people involved in the class, don't you dare stop asking your questions."

She is Presbyterian.

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My ex-wife had that reaction to her questions on a regular basis when she came to church with me. It was usually in Gospel Doctrine. At first she came away upset that she had 'caused such a scene' but the teacher told her "Are you kidding? I've never gotten this bunch to talk and discuss so readily! Your questions are getting people involved in the class, don't you dare stop asking your questions."

She is Presbyterian.

RipplecutBuddha, something occurred to me as I read your post. That is another thing converts bring...excitement!

When I joined, I assumed that classes were the place to share our excitement, our enthusiasm, our love, our questions, our insights, and our experiences in--or of--the gospel.

Ha ha, it wasn't until a few years into this wonderful gospel journey that I have been on since 1998, that I learned most members (usually the all-lifers) thought that classes were the place to sit quietly while the teacher or speaker spoon-fed them all the information!!

Well, I'm just not the "sit quietly" kind of learner. If you want me to pay attention and to actually learn something, then I just HAVE to participate. I don't judge those who are shy, or who lack confidence to participate, but I sure do appreciate the classes that have participation. With my ADHD, I just can't concentrate very well with lecture-driven classes, or classes in which the teacher reads verbatim from a talk or lesson manual.

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When I was on my mission, we had one member in our town who was in a nursing home. he was in his 80s and very faithful. We would server him the sacrament in his room every Sunday since he couldn't attend church. He was a wonderful man and I think fondly of him even now, 25 years later. As we got to know him, he told us his conversion story, when he was in his 60s. I realized, that even though he joined the church so late in life, he had been a member of the church longer than I had been alive. What he taught me was that every soul is precious and no matter the age, the gospel is there for them and that contribution can be just as important and lasting as any born in the church missionary.

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A friend of mine is getting baptized this Sunday. He's in his 60s and has been pentecostal most of his life. He just told me this week. There are a couple of areas he is uncertain about, but says he takes assurance in leaders of the church that have said he does not have to discard his beliefs, but should bring all he has that is good with him. I understand that it was President Hinckley who said that. My own common sense suggests that this new convert will not be able to hold on to his doctrines, if they conflict with church teachings. He will gradually give them up, or face a major spiritual struggle. So, my simple question is: what do adult converts bring with them? What blessings might my friend be bringing with him to his new ward? What did President Hinckley have in mind when he said that?

They help bring in the spirit, Experience from outside the church, whatever talents they have, and their testimony/testifying.

I'd like to point out something- until we are fully aligned with and have full revelation from God there will always be something we will bump into that will cause us to struggle with until we humble ourselves and allow God to dictate our course. This happens even to prophets.

I'd wager however for many other doctrines it would be a change of view that happens with a new or different understanding, the kind that allows us to move from 1 point to another without too much trouble.

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I'd like to point out something- until we are fully aligned with and have full revelation from God there will always be something we will bump into that will cause us to struggle with until we humble ourselves and allow God to dictate our course. This happens even to prophets.

I'd wager however for many other doctrines it would be a change of view that happens with a new or different understanding, the kind that allows us to move from 1 point to another without too much trouble.

This is a great description of the perspective of the current church and faithful members. It might be that of the convert who's looking in the rear view mirror, also.

The investigator though is looking forward and seeing what? An error...but who's? The folks behind are yelling, "Stop! That's wrong. Come back, don't go that way!"

In the mean time you are saying, "It's okay. We used to believe the way you did. It's hard to change old ideas, but over time, after you've had some simple teachings (milk), you'll come to see that this is a matter you will choose to agree with the church on (you'll start chewing meat).

Who's having the hard time in this scenario. Not me. I think orthodoxy is on my side. Not you. You've got modern prophets and an authorized church and leadership that have given you previously lost knowledge.

It's the investigator in the middle who struggles. Something has drawn him to your church, but he's sincere, and does not know yet which way he should go.

I have not heard back from my friend, but I would guess he will come to agree with your post, since his baptism was scheduled for yesterday.

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A friend of mine is getting baptized this Sunday. He's in his 60s and has been pentecostal most of his life. He just told me this week. There are a couple of areas he is uncertain about, but says he takes assurance in leaders of the church that have said he does not have to discard his beliefs, but should bring all he has that is good with him. I understand that it was President Hinckley who said that. My own common sense suggests that this new convert will not be able to hold on to his doctrines, if they conflict with church teachings. He will gradually give them up, or face a major spiritual struggle. So, my simple question is: what do adult converts bring with them? What blessings might my friend be bringing with him to his new ward? What did President Hinckley have in mind when he said that?

I brought a Baptist way of teaching.
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The OP made a reference to a quote by Pres. Hinckley. Here is the full quote with some context:

"As all of you know, we carry on a vast missionary program in the Church. But it is not argumentative. We do not debate. We, in effect, simply say to others, 'Bring all the good that you have and let us see if we can add to it.'"

Good, truth, and light. I believe those terms are very closely tied to each other and in many instances can be used interchangeably. There are subtle differences in meaning based on context, but my point is that truth also refers to light (D&C 84:45) and "whatsoever is light, is good" (Alma 32:35). Further, we believe that all truth is a compound in one. So, we can say that we expect that anyone who has received light and truth to have received this light and truth from the only source of light and truth, which is God.

With this backdrop let me state that I believe the message is first of all, we aren't interested in tearing people down and destroying their beliefs. Also, we recognize that we do not have a monopoly on righteousness. Further, we know truth is truth and if you have truth already, bring it with you. You don't have to give up anything that is good, true, and light. We love those things. Bring who you are, with all your good traits and good beliefs and good talents and lets see if perhaps we have some more goodness, more truth, and more light to add to what you have already accumulated through your life experiences.

However, there are times when we believe something to be good, or of God, when in reality it is not. Perhaps this is where the issue arises. This is the individual component of conversion. Each person, as they receive truth from the Spirit, is responsible for finding a place in their heart for that truth. When the Spirit pricks our hearts, like an investigator feeling like perhaps there is something special in what the missionaries are saying, this is where it takes personal integrity and strength to reject old beliefs and old thoughts and replace them with the truth that you feel the Spirit whispering to you to change.

Regards,

Finrock

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The OP made a reference to a quote by Pres. Hinckley. Here is the full quote with some context:

"As all of you know, we carry on a vast missionary program in the Church. But it is not argumentative. We do not debate. We, in effect, simply say to others, 'Bring all the good that you have and let us see if we can add to it.'"

Good, truth, and light. I believe those terms are very closely tied to each other and in many instances can be used interchangeably. There are subtle differences in meaning based on context, but my point is that truth also refers to light (D&C 84:45) and "whatsoever is light, is good" (Alma 32:35). Further, we believe that all truth is a compound in one. So, we can say that we expect that anyone who has received light and truth to have received this light and truth from the only source of light and truth, which is God.

With this backdrop let me state that I believe the message is first of all, we aren't interested in tearing people down and destroying their beliefs. Also, we recognize that we do not have a monopoly on righteousness. Further, we know truth is truth and if you have truth already, bring it with you. You don't have to give up anything that is good, true, and light. We love those things. Bring who you are, with all your good traits and good beliefs and good talents and lets see if perhaps we have some more goodness, more truth, and more light to add to what you have already accumulated through your life experiences.

However, there are times when we believe something to be good, or of God, when in reality it is not. Perhaps this is where the issue arises. This is the individual component of conversion. Each person, as they receive truth from the Spirit, is responsible for finding a place in their heart for that truth. When the Spirit pricks our hearts, like an investigator feeling like perhaps there is something special in what the missionaries are saying, this is where it takes personal integrity and strength to reject old beliefs and old thoughts and replace them with the truth that you feel the Spirit whispering to you to change.

Very eloquent, Finrock, and a very solid answer. Nice job!!

Building on this foundation Finrock has laid, may I suggest two things: first, that the body of Christ is not complete without all of its members (just as the physical body is incomplete without all its parts). Therefore, the single greatest thing that a convert brings to the Church is himself or herself, witnessing by undergoing the ordinance of baptism that they are willing to be renewed by Christ and be counted among His children. From there, every member, if they seek to do the will of God, is in time integrated into his of her local ward and becomes a living part of that faith community.

In your friend's case PC, the greatest good he is bringing to the Church is himself.

Secondly, if the Church does fulfill the divine destiny begun by Joseph Smith, it will succeed in bringing forth Zion, described in the book of Daniel as breaking the existing nations of the world and described by Isaiah as becoming the world leader in the Last Days. Seeing as how such an event would clearly be raising up a higher order and standard of spiritual living, it would necessitate a higher degree of commitment and knowledge of all its inhabitants- all the "good" that every convert brought with them to the Church would of necessity have much more "good" added to it. Conversely, much of what they thought was "good" at one time they would come to recognize as "bad" or erroneous, as Daniel realized when he saw his vision of the Lord (Daniel 10:8).

Every person, whether they were born in the covenant or converted later in life, has to undergo that same process to receive an inheritance in the Kingdom. I think every Christian denomination can agree with that premise as well, so long as they acknowledge the supremacy of God's ways over our own ways.

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I'm so glad you asked this question, PC, my hubby and I are adult converts. There is a huge amount of adult converts in my ward. Something that I have noticed among those raised in other churches in general is their deep love and avid study of the Bible. They are also very friendly and have a great capacity to care about and understand the problems of others. Many of my friends who grew up in the LDS faith have trouble connecting with investigators and new members, especially those facing difficulty with family relationships after baptism.

Withouth these knowledgeable members many problems faced by those just learning the ways of the Lord would go unanswered by ward family.

My husband amazes me all the time when we are doing family scripture study or when we have come upon a situation and he gives some eye opening insight of a comparable situation in the old testament. His grasp of the old testament is beyond any one else's I've ever met. He is patient with those who have stumbled and is very patient and not overbearing when waiting for others to understand and live gospel principles. He can help others quit tobacco because he has done it himself, he has seen what church culture looks like from the outside and knows how to help others understand it. It has helped him in teaching children who are learning, teens who have had trouble gaining a testimony, and investigators/new members who are trying to grasp doctrine that they have never heard before.

Sometimes it can be initially difficult to understand doctrine until it is seen in action. For example, when I first joined the church it was so strange to me that there are both tithe offerings and fast offerings. Once I saw the difference being put to action, and saw that one did not hinder the action of the other it became much easier to understand and accept. Sometimes we cannot get a testimony of certain principles until we try out the action associated with the doctrine written on paper. There are several types of learning and all are employed with the help of the church organization. Doctrine that may appear only academic quite usually is not, but comes to light through service to others. We learn by reading, hearing, and doing the gospel. Perhaps that doctrine your friend changes his mind about doesn't mean he is losing anything, but rather gaining a greater understand of the gospel as he learns through service to others.

One of the things I love most about the true gospel is that it is not two dimensional. It is not only on paper, it is not only talked about, but it is put to practice in the world around us, it is living and growing and expanding. This is proof that we believe in a living God. Scriptures are growing, giving us more and more insight and understanding rather than getting further away from us because of a lack of understanding of a form of English that is no longer commonly used.

Adult converts have a blessed understanding that it isn't the Bible vs. the Book of Mormon, but rather they testify of each other and strengthen each other.

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This is a great description of the perspective of the current church and faithful members. It might be that of the convert who's looking in the rear view mirror, also.

The investigator though is looking forward and seeing what? An error...but who's? The folks behind are yelling, "Stop! That's wrong. Come back, don't go that way!"

In the mean time you are saying, "It's okay. We used to believe the way you did. It's hard to change old ideas, but over time, after you've had some simple teachings (milk), you'll come to see that this is a matter you will choose to agree with the church on (you'll start chewing meat).

Who's having the hard time in this scenario. Not me. I think orthodoxy is on my side. Not you. You've got modern prophets and an authorized church and leadership that have given you previously lost knowledge.

It's the investigator in the middle who struggles. Something has drawn him to your church, but he's sincere, and does not know yet which way he should go.

I have not heard back from my friend, but I would guess he will come to agree with your post, since his baptism was scheduled for yesterday.

thats one way of seeing it. some things you can see the path with your own intuition and reasoning and can follow it by yourself others you can't. the times you can't it becomes a struggle, we have these times in our life to humble us to hopefully bring us to god and allow him to guide us. THese kind of moments do not stop after baptism. As we travel our paths and we look back we'll find that some things were more important than we realised and others less important, different, or not quite what we thought.

It's important to put in as much work into making a choice upon which path to follow, to accept.. however ultimately we need to be able to have the direction from God. The biggest difference i think between prophets and us is how quick we are to get on our knees, how much we are willing to go thorugh endure to get an answer, and finally how willing we are to be able to follow any answer we get.

It is these experiences that people bring to the table that prove that God is there, and that he is there for us, is probably one of the biggest things that these folks bring both to those in the church and to those outside of it.

Edited by Blackmarch
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A friend of mine is getting baptized this Sunday. He's in his 60s and has been pentecostal most of his life. He just told me this week. There are a couple of areas he is uncertain about, but says he takes assurance in leaders of the church that have said he does not have to discard his beliefs, but should bring all he has that is good with him. I understand that it was President Hinckley who said that. My own common sense suggests that this new convert will not be able to hold on to his doctrines, if they conflict with church teachings. He will gradually give them up, or face a major spiritual struggle. So, my simple question is: what do adult converts bring with them? What blessings might my friend be bringing with him to his new ward? What did President Hinckley have in mind when he said that?

PC, can I turn the question around on you? What do adult converts to Assemblies of God who were former Muslim, Hindu, agnostic, Mormon, bring with them? What blessings would one from one of these bring to your congregation?

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Beefche, the answers are largely the same. Former LDS and Witnesses are both known to be eager and diligent workers. We have a lady (now well into her 80s) who was raised Catholic, and often shows great enthusiasm for some of our teachings that she felt she was not given.

Probably the most obvious aspect that comes to me is APPRECIATION. Whatever a convert thinks they were missing and have found, they are profoundly thankful for it.

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