Mandatory Military Service


mordorbund
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

What are your thoughts about having mandatory military service here in the US? What privileges of citizenship would you tie to it (if you don't qualify for the service or if you refuse to join, then you waive the right to bear Arms, for instance)?

I would assume that wars would become more unpopular than they are now (or perhaps exclusively "popular"). Would we have to create work for the new troops?

For those of you from countries that require military service (I'm aware of Israel), what was your experience, and do you think it could be successfully executed here?

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We don't want to go back to a Vietnam-era draft situation. No 'passes' for people in college. I think mandatory service isn't a bad idea, as long as there is choice. So, it wouldn't have to be military, but 2-3 years as a hospital aide, school aide, shoot, as a trash collection aide, even. : ) My understanding is that the Israeli army has ways for even disabled people to serve in some capacity. We should do something similar - EVERYONE serves in some way and there's no way to get out of it, unless you are comatose or require 24 hr care.

It would probably be a problem to let missionary service count, but since we are funding faith-based programs in the community, it might be worth a discussion. I could see giving a credit for service to a priest or nun who was in the community doing something, but not cloistered nuns, for example.

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I wonder what that would do to our voluntary missionary service. These kids are already putting their lives on hold for 2 years...school, career, etc. What would it do if they also had do a mandatory stint in the military. I think that would be asking a lot of our youth.

Edited by pam
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I am neutral on mandatory military service. I see the pros and cons.

I do think mandatory military service would be a real eye opener, especially for those who are anti-military. People would realize what sacrifices military members and their families go through. Missed birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, possibly missing the birth of your child, frequent moves, loneliness, heartache, worrying about your loved one in war, taking care of everything while your spouse is away, risk of having your loved one become injuried or worst case- dying in war.

I am a military spouse and I know what it is like. The military always comes first. I am married to the military as well as my husband. I know my husband could be deployed any time. I know I could end up a widow if he deploys. I know my husband is putting his life on the line, even for those who don't fully appreciate the military and even for those who are anti-military. I know the heartache of being apart for a birthday, anniversary, holiday. Freedom does not come free, someone (military members and their families) pay the price.

I like that quote "If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them".

Edited by Star_
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I'm not opposed to it, except that we do so dang much with the quarter-of-a-percent of the population serving now, I'm afraid we'd start looking for trouble if that rose to five percent.

I do think military spending needs to be reduced. There is wasteful spending that needs to be dealt with. I also think military members and their families earn that "so dang much".

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I like the idea of mandatory military service. I also see this of having a very broad definition--I think it could do wonders for civil service projects and just imagine the training people would receive. I think in many ways it would be a good price for all our freedoms. Like Star said, those who are anti-military would have their eyes opened.

As for qualifying/not qualifying, I don't think "not qualifying" would be an option. If we broadened our definition of this military service, I don't see why anyone couldn't do something. Desk jobs exist.

However, I have a sneaking feeling there would be come cons, so I shall say I like the basic and general idea of mandatory military service but am open to discussion on the pros and cons.

As for punishment, I think losing voting privileges for a given amount of time or that loss of right to arms might be fair.

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What are your thoughts about having mandatory military service here in the US? What privileges of citizenship would you tie to it (if you don't qualify for the service or if you refuse to join, then you waive the right to bear Arms, for instance)?

I would assume that wars would become more unpopular than they are now (or perhaps exclusively "popular"). Would we have to create work for the new troops?

For those of you from countries that require military service (I'm aware of Israel), what was your experience, and do you think it could be successfully executed here?

In some ways mandatory military service would be beneficial:

1. Healthier citizens who go through the rigorous training.

2. Everybody would have knowledge about gun control, gun safety, and how to use the weapon properly, and how not to use the weapon.

3. Every citizen would have survival knowledge as well in many different circumstances which can be applied to other circumstances.

Cons:

1. Those countries that have mandatory military service are typically socialistic countries. If MMS turned our country into a socialistic government, then NO, it would loose all benefit there.

2. Tax payers would pay more to support.

3. Mandatory and voluntary options really don't mix, it is either mandatory, or voluntary as it is now.

My first thoughts on solution:

1. Full-time military service is optional.

2. Mandatory, would be either after graduation, or before, each citizen is required two years of service. This service would be part-time and after hours from their full-time jobs. This obviously has its draw back also.

3. Mandatory service would actually be lowered to H.S. students, and part of their training in school would be military. Similar to a release time. They could start at age 16, and be completed by 18.

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I wonder what our mandatory military would look like, though. My impressions from what I learned about Russia's mandatory service was that the non-professional soldiers, though only there to serve out their time, were not nearly as serious or effective.

I think the quality of our military would decrease if you took people who do not care or do not want to serve and tried to make them serve like those who do. If we didn't change anything, except the volunteer nature of the service, there would be problems. Perhaps if we gave only those who serviced the vote...

I also share the fear that we would have such a large military that we would seek out things to do with it. I don't think we need to police the world, but I think we would even more.

I could see a more reserve-style military training around high school or something. In fact, Truman even proposed a similar program while he was president.

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What are your thoughts about having mandatory military service here in the US? What privileges of citizenship would you tie to it (if you don't qualify for the service or if you refuse to join, then you waive the right to bear Arms, for instance)?

I would assume that wars would become more unpopular than they are now (or perhaps exclusively "popular"). Would we have to create work for the new troops?

For those of you from countries that require military service (I'm aware of Israel), what was your experience, and do you think it could be successfully executed here?

Militia's is for the profane, it is a secular involvement mixed with political psychological and scientifical reasonings. When one believes fear is of the lost of their life and not the wrath of our Heavenly Father, one does not believe in the eternal salvation and the masterplan of peace and prosperity. We have been living these latter-days in the uprising of warfares, to think that otherwise would be like Peter denying Christ unto the pharisees. I think of our savior and I think of politicians and it's really not that hard to differentiate their purpose and causes from Jesus Christ.

I don't know how one can serve two Gods, a military is created by the abominable organization "Governments". There is the mankind laws and the divine and Holy laws and we are in the middleway. How can one be spiritually in tune but physically out of touch with Jesus if they actively killed kids in other countries but given justification through political reasonings that these kids were born into a "guerilla" family to lighten the guilt.

In many countries "Governments" has been extremist regardless, to think that freedom exist because of capitalism and consumerism is preposterous. There is this saying that "Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Freedom" 2 Corinthians 3:17. I have only felt freedom when I go to church and during that momment in time and space does it seem like a split second and then right back to the consumer demands of the material world.

I'm hopeful for people to be enlightened and seek for peace in America and in the Middle East. It's unfortunate that so many are hopeless that they share there doubts just to support another in doubt and become doubters. But I am thankful for the church that encourages to uplift the spirits of those in need of comfort or to bless those who are afflicted and those who may be in need of shelter, food and jobs.

The problem is consumerism, militia's are created in the false pretense to protect its citizens yet enslave them in the policy yielding corporate society through political coercions.

Everything I've stated is just my opinions and the way I feel about these days. I apologize if I offend anyone, I have family members in the military who before they served were loving and caring now they are like robots serving the purpose of the "Government" just to provide for their family.

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Militia's is for the profane, it is a secular involvement mixed with political psychological and scientifical reasonings. When one believes fear is of the lost of their life and not the wrath of our Heavenly Father, one does not believe in the eternal salvation and the masterplan of peace and prosperity.

I don't agree with everything you have typed but I respect your freedom to have and share your own opinions. I know there are different perspectives about the military.

I am curious how do you know every LDS military member does not fear the wrath of God,? I have seen quite the contrary. How do you know those who aren't in the military don't fear the loss of their life? Do you not fear the loss of your own life? It seems to be a common and natural fear.

I'm hopeful for people to be enlightened and seek for peace in America and in the Middle East.

I am hopeful too.

But I am thankful for the church that encourages to uplift the spirits of those in need of comfort or to bless those who are afflicted and those who may be in need of shelter, food and jobs.

I agree :)

I have family members in the military who before they served were loving and caring now they are like robots serving the purpose of the "Government" just to provide for their family.

Hm, well my husband is still loving and caring.

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I wonder what our mandatory military would look like, though. My impressions from what I learned about Russia's mandatory service was that the non-professional soldiers, though only there to serve out their time, were not nearly as serious or effective.

This is my understanding about Vietnam era drafted soldiers as well (not knocking them, my late husband was a combat vet). There appears to be a big difference in the abilities and attitudes of our current military compared to draftees.

That's why I would let service be broadly defined. Let some help with education or health or community service (but real work, not a 'community organizer' like someone we know).

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Militia's is for the profane, it is a secular involvement mixed with political psychological and scientifical reasonings. When one believes fear is of the lost of their life and not the wrath of our Heavenly Father, one does not believe in the eternal salvation and the masterplan of peace and prosperity.

I don't agree with everything you have typed but I respect your freedom to have and share your own opinions. I know there are different perspectives about the military.

I am curious how do you know every LDS military member does not fear the wrath of God,? I have seen quite the contrary. How do you know those who aren't in the military don't fear the loss of their life? Do you not fear the loss of your own life? It seems to be a common and natural fear.

I'm hopeful for people to be enlightened and seek for peace in America and in the Middle East.

I am hopeful too.

But I am thankful for the church that encourages to uplift the spirits of those in need of comfort or to bless those who are afflicted and those who may be in need of shelter, food and jobs.

I agree :)

I have family members in the military who before they served were loving and caring now they are like robots serving the purpose of the "Government" just to provide for their family.

Hm, well my husband is still loving and caring.

I don't know the conscientious of those who are LDS militants and I know it's not my place to judge them. This post is an open discussion about how one may feel in regards to mandatory military service and I don't and wouldn't agree with it.

I truly disagree that military service promotes peace when it's created for enforcing political coercion among human beings. What does a militia have to offer that implements Christ-like characteristics? I understand if you are just preparing to combat in defense, while learning societal traits for a career everything seems fine. However, for example when the government sends troops across sea for transient causes that has been flipped and flopped, the question comes down to what are we fighting for? Governments have spiritually endangered many souls that are caught in the battlefield of confusion. In my opinion, when you are in the military you've signed your soul to the government. That your duty is to protect that country even if the politician ends up being a person whose character is of opposition to your religious faith.

Death is conquered by a sure foundation of faith in Jesus Christ, is this not what his atonement exemplifies? To prove to us that we are capable of attaining eternal happiness if we live our lives in sync with the Gospel, if we have humiliation for all the wrongs that we may have committed, pray and walk by faith in Jesus Christ. We are living in these latter-days where the adversary is prevailing like the wind to and fro. Our only dignity is our hopes in all things, our only strengths is our faith in Jesus Christ, our only actions is our service of good deeds, charity, and healing. The gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us that we must heal each other from anger, retaliation, hate, grudges and greed. These are afflictions of emotions that human beings are bound to possess regardless of race or creed.

To each is own, I just feel that joining the military is only making the Government stronger and more capable of controlling and owning its citizens through indebtedness and a physical contract that most citizens who are in desperate need of something from their society incoherently sign.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind - Ghandi

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. -Ghandi

2 Therefore, O ye that embark in the service of God, see that ye serve him with all your heart, might, mind and strength, that ye may stand blameless before God at the last day.

3 Therefore, if ye have desires to serve God ye are called to the work;

4 For behold the field is white already to harvest; and lo, he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul;

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What are your thoughts about having mandatory military service here in the US? What privileges of citizenship would you tie to it (if you don't qualify for the service or if you refuse to join, then you waive the right to bear Arms, for instance)?

I would assume that wars would become more unpopular than they are now (or perhaps exclusively "popular"). Would we have to create work for the new troops?

For those of you from countries that require military service (I'm aware of Israel), what was your experience, and do you think it could be successfully executed here?

I wouldnt mind it. We'd have to change some things for sure tho; i'd imagine that the armed forces would have to become much more self sufficient, and also we'd be cycling individuals in, through, and out quicker. I think it would help with the gun issue a bit.

IF it could instill more respect for life, freedoms, better work ethics and etc... i'd be down for it.

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Thanks for all your comments (and please keep them coming). Many of you have voiced some of my thoughts, and I'll continue to think through them as well.

I'm not opposed to it, except that we do so dang much with the quarter-of-a-percent of the population serving now, I'm afraid we'd start looking for trouble if that rose to five percent.

This would be a concern for me as well. I think we would see an initial drop in foreign wars for the first 10-15 years, as it would be politically unsavory to place the population's first born on the roulette wheel to the front lines. But then I can see the culture of it setting in until it just becomes an acceptable risk because the service is a cultural norm. I can see politicians thinking "meh, we have an army, why not use it". I can't very well argue with that, unless we broaden the service opportunities along the lines of what Dahlia mentions.

We don't want to go back to a Vietnam-era draft situation. No 'passes' for people in college. I think mandatory service isn't a bad idea, as long as there is choice. So, it wouldn't have to be military, but 2-3 years as a hospital aide, school aide, shoot, as a trash collection aide, even. : ) My understanding is that the Israeli army has ways for even disabled people to serve in some capacity. We should do something similar - EVERYONE serves in some way and there's no way to get out of it, unless you are comatose or require 24 hr care.

It would probably be a problem to let missionary service count, but since we are funding faith-based programs in the community, it might be worth a discussion. I could see giving a credit for service to a priest or nun who was in the community doing something, but not cloistered nuns, for example.

The utilitarian in me (we all know it's Sir Topham Hatt) thinks enlarging the armed forces is wasteful and essentially creates busywork jobs. I do agree that there are other public service jobs that could probably be covered by these excess troops. Perhaps police patrols could be staffed. I could also see public service (just as trash collectors or even soup kitchen workers) for the ones who want nothing to do with firearms but do not want to give up the perks that come with it.

I like the idea of mandatory military service. I also see this of having a very broad definition--I think it could do wonders for civil service projects and just imagine the training people would receive. I think in many ways it would be a good price for all our freedoms. Like Star said, those who are anti-military would have their eyes opened.

As for qualifying/not qualifying, I don't think "not qualifying" would be an option. If we broadened our definition of this military service, I don't see why anyone couldn't do something. Desk jobs exist.

However, I have a sneaking feeling there would be come cons, so I shall say I like the basic and general idea of mandatory military service but am open to discussion on the pros and cons.

As for punishment, I think losing voting privileges for a given amount of time or that loss of right to arms might be fair.

One of the advantages that I see in mandatory military service is that you essentially have the government funding the training of rebels. The initial weapons will be taken from the bases by sympathetic soldiers (or sailors) until more can be supplied by foreign sympathetic nations. Once obtained, those weapons can be skillfully wielded by civilians. In essence, the government is saying I am governing you because this is what you want; it would be like confident parents giving their children the number to CPS.

For this reason, I'm not a fan of desk jobs for those serving. I could probably be fine with it provided they all go through the same basic training and qualifying. I do realize that this isn't even today's reality - the Air Force, for instance, assumes that whatever tool you have (jet, computer, what-have-you) is your primary weapon, and if your left fending for yourself with a handgun then things have gone really, really, wrong. I don't know that I believe that philosophy, but I can see where it's coming from and could probably be okay with it for the "civil servers".

The other problem I see with "civil servers" would be that you would be staffing the non-profits. And while that's a good thing for the causes I agree with, it's not-so-good for the causes I disagree with. Actually, that might be a good thing. They're already getting tax breaks (and in some cases, federal funding), it would be good to add visibility to that.

I am neutral on mandatory military service. I see the pros and cons.

I do think mandatory military service would be a real eye opener, especially for those who are anti-military. People would realize what sacrifices military members and their families go through. Missed birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, possibly missing the birth of your child, frequent moves, loneliness, heartache, worrying about your loved one in war, taking care of everything while your spouse is away, risk of having your loved one become injuried or worst case- dying in war.

I am a military spouse and I know what it is like. The military always comes first. I am married to the military as well as my husband. I know my husband could be deployed any time. I know I could end up a widow if he deploys. I know my husband is putting his life on the line, even for those who don't fully appreciate the military and even for those who are anti-military. I know the heartache of being apart for a birthday, anniversary, holiday. Freedom does not come free, someone (military members and their families) pay the price.

I like that quote "If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them".

I think this awareness would be a definite boon to our society. Back to my earlier point that I think we would tolerate war a lot less (at least initially) if it was always personal. I think if we are to implement it, it would be for your first year (or two) out of high school - for men and women. This way the youth could get it in before starting vocations in earnest, and it would have minimal impacts on new families (although it might force some high school sweethearts to marry for fear of what the future might bring).

In some ways mandatory military service would be beneficial:

1. Healthier citizens who go through the rigorous training.

2. Everybody would have knowledge about gun control, gun safety, and how to use the weapon properly, and how not to use the weapon.

3. Every citizen would have survival knowledge as well in many different circumstances which can be applied to other circumstances.

Cons:

1. Those countries that have mandatory military service are typically socialistic countries. If MMS turned our country into a socialistic government, then NO, it would loose all benefit there.

2. Tax payers would pay more to support.

3. Mandatory and voluntary options really don't mix, it is either mandatory, or voluntary as it is now.

My first thoughts on solution:

1. Full-time military service is optional.

2. Mandatory, would be either after graduation, or before, each citizen is required two years of service. This service would be part-time and after hours from their full-time jobs. This obviously has its draw back also.

3. Mandatory service would actually be lowered to H.S. students, and part of their training in school would be military. Similar to a release time. They could start at age 16, and be completed by 18.

I would add to your cons that "Everybody would have knowledge about ... how to use weapons properly". Not to get too heavily into the gun debate going on in other threads, but one of the best reasons for gun control is preventing the crime of opportunity. I don't lock my car doors and roll up the windows to prevent professional car theft - they can easily work around my standard lock. I take that simple precaution so the random otherwise-live-and-let-live passerby doesn't see an open window and think, "I wonder what's in that backpack that I can't live without". Most people, for most of their lives, are perfectly reasonable around weapons (and this includes kitchen knives, baseball bats, and golf clubs). But there are short-term snaps where you don't want a person around a weapon of any kind, and the more proficiency that person has with a given weapon - as a weapon - the scarcer you will be.

I absolutely agree that you will still have the professional soldier. Or at the very least you'll have professionals providing the framework, so all officers would be professionals. I think there's a general frowning on kids in the armed forces (where "kids" is defined by the scowler of course). I do think it you could knock a year off of service for JROTC.

I think the tax con you raise is not such a bad thing. We're already paying for all kinds of benefits that we are so abstracted from. This service will show citizens what we are actually getting from our tax dollars (for instance, I recently read an article that said that fire fighters spend most of their time as back-up EMTs and very little actually fighting fires. If more people had the firefighter experience, would we be opposed to cutting their budget?).

I wonder what our mandatory military would look like, though. My impressions from what I learned about Russia's mandatory service was that the non-professional soldiers, though only there to serve out their time, were not nearly as serious or effective.

I think the quality of our military would decrease if you took people who do not care or do not want to serve and tried to make them serve like those who do. If we didn't change anything, except the volunteer nature of the service, there would be problems. Perhaps if we gave only those who serviced the vote...

I also share the fear that we would have such a large military that we would seek out things to do with it. I don't think we need to police the world, but I think we would even more.

I could see a more reserve-style military training around high school or something. In fact, Truman even proposed a similar program while he was president.

The reserve training would be more in line with what I envision. I share your same concern that we would get into loving our wars because we have the force to war. I think we should have them trained, but they can then fill the time building up their communities via civil service.

I don't think we could reasonably expect military service to be tied to the vote. I can see conscientious objectors who want nothing to do with the possibility of shooting a fellow person opt out. Either we provide a non-violent alternative for them (in which case, sure, tie it to the vote), or we bind it to some other rights.

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