Righteous Anger...what are your thoughts?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I really found it helpful when I asked questions here and on Facebook about forgiveness. I learned a lot about what other people think, and some of it did change my own thoughts, some I anticipated, and some I "agree to disagree" with, but I appreciated all the feedback.

So now I am on a new "quest"...righteous anger, particularly pertaining to abuse, any kind of abuse. I definately have opinions on this, but I want to know what other people think rather than make assumptions about what other people think.

And, yes, I will be writing about my conclusions. :)

So what do you think about anger? Are there times when it is justified, or even necessary? Anger and abuse... Or whatever comes to your mind about the topic.

Thanks in advance!!!

[selek]

When the Savior hand-made a whip and cleansed the Temple, he wasn't acting out of passive joy.

The Scriptures are replete with other examples in which Heavenly Father and Jehovah is kindled to wrath.

If God cannot do that which is unjust, and yet can become angry, it is only logical that said anger is not "unjust".

[Guest]

To me I guess it's productive anger that brings something to an abrupt halt, to be used in extreme cases such as abuse.

It's not the kind I get when my kids are just.not.listening. I need to learn to be more long-suffering.

[skippy740]

Any kind of abuse cannot be done in righteousness. That's why it's called abuse.

Anger that is channeled towards change... is good.

For example, in my class, I've got this one guy who sits next to me. He doesn't bring his materials, doesn't pay attention... and he begins to text me asking for help to figure everything out. He didn't text me once, but multiple times. In my mind: "Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part."

But he is a part of our group project. If he's behind in this EASY class... how well will he do for our project?

So, I got upset with him. During class break, I asked him to come outside with me. I chewed him out. I was bold. I was blunt.

But I didn't leave him in the dark. I had some tools to help him get organized and sent him a follow up email of more resources he could use to help him stay on top of these things.

After all this, he seemed "more awake" during our group project discussion. After class, I asked him what he was going to bring the next week. He said the thing to research... and I simply reminded him to also bring all his materials.

He even sent me a "thank you" email.

Sometimes, like on these business makeover shows (Restaurant Impossible, Hotel Impossible, Kitchen Nightmares)... you have to be BOLD first to "shake them" a bit. And yeah, it looks a lot like anger.

But the key is to not leave them there. Help them get out of the rut they are in.

D&C 121:43

43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;

[Blackmarch]

I really found it helpful when I asked questions here and on Facebook about forgiveness. I learned a lot about what other people think, and some of it did change my own thoughts, some I anticipated, and some I "agree to disagree" with, but I appreciated all the feedback.

So now I am on a new "quest"...righteous anger, particularly pertaining to abuse, any kind of abuse. I definately have opinions on this, but I want to know what other people think rather than make assumptions about what other people think.

And, yes, I will be writing about my conclusions. :)

So what do you think about anger? Are there times when it is justified, or even necessary? Anger and abuse... Or whatever comes to your mind about the topic.

Thanks in advance!!!

only to be used when the spirit tells you to. otherwise it's not for us.

[lutsab]

I am a victim of sexual abuse as well. I have read a few books including the peacekeeper and falling to heaven. I think that anger is something that we need to learn to get over but that certain actions justify. I think it's important to note that Jesus did cleanse the temple from the money changers but that He ultimately laid down His life for these people too. Meaning we still need to be able to overcome the anger and get to a place of forgiveness. Ferrell in Falling to Heaven writes that forgiveness is "repenting for failing to love." Sexual abuse is heinous and grievous to levels few can understand, I think as long as we are working on having forgiveness and compassion towards the person not the act, the Savior will shoulder this with us. It sucks and I'm better at saying it than practicing it, but that's my two cents.

[ZionsRodeVos]

I doubt I understand anger very well since I seldom get angry. I don't even know why I rarely get angry and shake my head at how very little things cause my children to get angry.

I believe that if a person is able to control their anger in such a way that it does not hurt anyone (and by hurt I mean physically, emotionally, and spiritually) then it can be used for good. A key word here is control, it seems to me most people, once they are angry, they lose (or claim to lose) control of their actions.

When children are abused because someone got angry then I would say that anger was not good. I don't believe anger is helpful with raising children.

I've also had people ask me if I am angry when I did not feel angry so as others have mentioned I understand how some actions can appear as if a person is angry when it is really something else.

[Still_Small_Voice]

Inspired Version Ephesians 4:26 reads: Can ye be and not sin? Let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Thomas Monson said: “Anger doesn’t solve anything. It builds nothing, but it can destroy everything."

I find that when I am angry I do things I regret. The LORD has righteous anger because He has perfect control of His emotions. I think we should do everything we can to avoid being angry because it almost always leads to sin.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far, I hope the responses will keep coming!

This helps me so much. It is interesting (at least to me, LOL) the different ways this helps me. Some of these I anticipated, but others surprise me.

1-I get new insights

2-My previous assumptions about what other people think are challenged

3-I am beginning to see how defensive I feel about this, and seeing that I am able to let go and be less defensive.

A result of my previous exploration of forgiveness was that I came to understanding of it that satisfies me and I am more comfortable when others disagree with me (i.e. I am less defensive). Remember the man, boy, donkey story from conference? It's like that. I have a plan, and I know my plan, so I don't get unraveled when others disagree with me. It helps that I see forgiveness as an very complex topic, so two people can disagree and still both be right because they are 'seeing different parts of the elephant'.

That is my hope for this exploration of anger. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

[Backroads]

I heard a quote once that suggested anger, properly used and felt, is like a storm that clears the air. Anger is a feeling against true injustice, though I also believe that anger should be tempered by other emotions.

[skippy740]

I think anger without a purpose (and a resolution) is just a tantrum. It's immature.

Sometimes we can be angry and not really know why. That's a good time to do some introspection and prayer.

But once you know why you are angry/upset... what will you do about it THEN?

I think it's worse to harbor resentment and to "just take it". Some people will do that as it's part of the way they deal with problems. It's not healthy.

I'm reading "The Color Code". I'm a red. The motto for reds are: "Lead, Follow or Get Out of my way!" You generally always know where you stand with a red.

But my ex-wife is a white. Whites are more peace-keeping. But they end up being their own doormats because they don't always speak up for themselves. They think that no conflict is good... until it gets to a boiling point.

Don't harbor resentment. Anger is a symptom that something is wrong.

I wouldn't ignore it... but I wouldn't unleash it without a purpose or a destination either.

[Tough Grits]

I am passionate, easily excitable, easily distracted, obsessive/compulsive, and have no patience.

Unfortunately, these things lead to quick, vibrant anger. The anger blows quickly and I don't hold grudges, but while I am in the grips of anger, it wreaks havoc on my emotional, mental, and physical well-being.

I don't think there is any purpose or benefit to this kind of anger, and find that most of my repenting comes from anything I said or did while angry.

I have found that if I am left to myself when I am angry, I can sort through my thoughts and feelings, and reach a point of understanding (though not necessarily agreement) and then come back and interact without animosity or contention. ~TG

[jb789]

The topic of anger/"righteous" anger is a very important one - I think often in LDS culture we can get into a habit of repressing our emotions, because we deem them "bad", which ends up being unhealthy and un-natural.

The reference about Jesus clearing the temple is key - He was motivated by anger! In this cause He felt His anger, and it was constructive - it caused him to do what was necessary.

Say for example I am walking along with my wife or another loved one, and someone out of the blue hits her in the face (extreme example but go with me =)) Will I suppress my anger, no! The anger is a call to action - it is natural, it is your spirit/emotions saying something is not right. If we are totally accepting and non-suppressive of our emotions we will be moved to do the right thing. In this case, anger will indeed arise very quickly, and lead me to take the appropriate response (a swift beating of the assailant!)

What I'm saying is, anger has a purpose, it is not something to be suppressed or done away with. The problem people get into is they suppress their anger (and thus the natural reaction it stimulates), and this suppression then turns into a grudge, an ill feeling towards another, that brings about nothing constructive or helpful. In this case the anger is eating you from the inside out! This is anger not applied correctly. This could happen to a victim of abuse - if they suppress their anger against the abuser, they will not take appropriate action to get out of the relationship, and at the same time will have strong grundges/ill-feelings building up, which are not helpful. Often those who are constantly angry or "ready to explode" have gotten into such a habit of suppressing their anger and not releasing it correctly, in this case they are just sitting on top of a volcano, it will blow! Suppression only leads to accumulation of the emotion/desire, and it's eventually tumultuous and untimely release.

Whereas, the correct and natural course of action, is to feel anger in its entirety when it arises, and thus be moved to take the correct action. This is the correct use of anger - it moves us to action, but doesn't leave any "residue" or "afterglow", which is evidence by a grudge, hard feelings towards others, etc. Christ's anger to clear the temple was just this - it caused him to immediately take the right action, but surely there were no grudges/hard feelings/etc thereafter.

This article might help you - it's written by a guy named Osho (deceased); while Osho was not LDS, he was very insightful in many areas, I truly think he was inspired. Here's the article:

Dealing with Strong Emotions - By Osho

Edited February 1, 2013 by jb789

[selek]

Given the number of people who've commented on anger leaving "you out of control", it must be pointed out that "anger" is getting a bad rap.

Every one of us has gotten head-over-heels goofy over someone we were attracted to. (And made a fool of ourselves in the process.)

Every one of us has been pressured into handing over money and later regretted it. (While this can be caused by greed, it is more often a function of fear- notably fear of looking stingy or losing out on a good deal. Used car salesmen are trained to prey upon this emotion).

Every one of us has done something foolish while excited, tired, scared, sad, happy, joyful, hungry, or morose. (Did I really eat the entire carton of Haagen-Daas)?

Yet in every conversation such as this, "anger" gets singled out as the sole example of causing loss of control- or at least for having negative consequences when one does lose control.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

To my simple mind, we are commanded to rule all our passions- to be good stewards of all of the gifts God gave us- including our emotional states.

"Anger" is no less a legitimate state of mind than is bliss, or compassion, or heart-break.

It simply has different uses than the others.

Edited February 1, 2013 by selek

[Tough Grits]

[...]The anger is a call to action - it is natural, it is your spirit/emotions saying something is not right. If we are totally accepting and non-suppressive of our emotions we will be moved to do the right thing.

I agree.

[...] The problem people get into is they suppress their anger (and thus the natural reaction it stimulates), and this suppression then turns into a grudge, an ill feeling towards another, that brings about nothing constructive or helpful. In this case the anger is eating you from the inside out! This is anger not applied correctly.

Yep. That is why I need to be left alone. If I can remove myself from a heated situation, and find a quiet place to think, then I can sort through the anger and get to the real root of the problem. That is when I can find a solution or attempt a resolution, even if it is only within myself.

[...] Often those who are constantly angry or "ready to explode" have gotten into such a habit of suppressing their anger and not releasing it correctly, in this case they are just sitting on top of a volcano, it will blow! Suppression only leads to accumulation of the emotion/desire, and it's eventually tumultuous and untimely release.

Whereas, the correct and natural course of action, is to feel anger in its entirety when it arises, and thus be moved to take the correct action. This is the correct use of anger - it moves us to action, but doesn't leave any "residue" or "afterglow", which is evidence by a grudge, hard feelings towards others, etc.

*emphasis added*

That's me.

Because I am so passionate, I try not to speak or act in the moment. My passion overwhelms others---even when I am not actually mad!

I am a very loud and commanding speaker. I am not selfish or over-bearing, I am just loud and there is no hesitation in my voice when I speak. I think this intimidates others. My Cuban side of the family is very loud. The Cubans I knew in Miami were loud. They are a boisterous people, even when not angry. They are emotional and demonstrative in that emotion, bordering on dramatic.

So, if I am loud even when I am happy and normal, when I speak at times that I am not happy or normal, it sends people into fight or flight mode.

I have to always walk a fine line. I don't want to suppress anything, because--as you stated--it will build. Eventually it will hurt me or hurt others when I finally "release" what I have suppressed.

But then I don't want to always speak immediately in the moment either...because I am impulsive and my thoughts are not the sharpest when I am angry. I just know that about myself.

I have learned to "take a moment" and then revisit the issue after I have had time to think, and to process what it is about the situation that triggered the anger.

Not only do I feel better, but those that I deal with definitely appreciate me better when I can come and talk about the issues after I have had time to ponder it. As I said, I am a force-of-nature in my passionate nature and in my loud, strong voice.

Me, on a good day, already overwhelms too many people!

[MorningStar]

I think most displays of anger are probably not OK, but it can motivate you to say or do something that should have been done a long time ago. The last straw for my friend was when her husband grabbed her arm during an argument, causing her to almost drop her baby. She was mad and it gave her that final nudge to move in with her parents and divorce him.

Anger might also give you the courage to press charges, to keep yourself safe, etc.

[Anddenex]

I get a little angry with Vort sometimes...*cough* ...righteously.

[beefche]

Can someone help me understand where the term "righteous anger" comes from? I don't see it in the scriptures. And when I read about Jesus cleansing the temple, it doesn't say anything about anger.

So, that makes me wonder if He was actually angry during this time? Perhaps it falls along the line of reproving with sharpness--sharpness in this case doesn't mean anger, but means clearly, pointedly.

I find it very difficult to believe that any of us can be justified with anger. We are severely imperfect, so even if "righteous" anger exists, I'm not sure we would qualify for it very often.

[estradling75]

Can someone help me understand where the term "righteous anger" comes from? I don't see it in the scriptures. And when I read about Jesus cleansing the temple, it doesn't say anything about anger.

So, that makes me wonder if He was actually angry during this time? Perhaps it falls along the line of reproving with sharpness--sharpness in this case doesn't mean anger, but means clearly, pointedly.

I find it very difficult to believe that any of us can be justified with anger. We are severely imperfect, so even if "righteous" anger exists, I'm not sure we would qualify for it very often.

Search for anger or wrath... Narrow it down to when God is talking about himself (his anger his wrath etc) And there it is... Because if it is from God then it is 'righteous' Since we are trying to become more like him and he can get angry then its clear that anger itself is not wrong... But with many things it comes down to how it gets used or applied, and we screw that up a lot.

[beefche]

Yes, I realize that the scriptures have described God's wrath or anger and since He is righteous, then His anger/wrath is righteous.

But, often I hear of others asking about righteous anger as if to say that they have justifications to be angry if their anger is righteous. What I'm saying is I find it very difficult to see how we, mortal and imperfect and under the influence of our carnal natures, can ever have God's anger.

I know we are commanded to be as He is, but we all know we fall short and only through the Atonement can we achieve His perfection. When I look at our counsel for anger in the scriptures and from the prophets (I admit I did a quick scan of lds.org), there is nothing in it to allow us to feel righteous anger. We are counseled to control our anger, remove it from our lives, etc. We can reprove with sharpness, but I have never equated that with anger.

And, in fact, at least one talk from Pres Monson in GC (again from a quick scan), he actually says that angry feelings are not from God. So, when are we justified to feel anger? I've yet to come across anything which allows us to have a righteous anger.

[Anddenex]

So, when are we justified to feel anger? I've yet to come across anything which allows us to have a righteous anger.

When we are moved upon by the spirit, and not by our own pride that has been hurt.

I have come across once experience that has made the most sense to me when thinking upon righteous anger.

He was my bishop, one of the most spiritual man I have known, and not to go into great detail of his experience, the part I remember most, after letting me know how his hand slammed on his desk and proceeded to chasten one of his members, he said, "I was moved upon by the spirit...."

I, believe, however these experiences are possibly far fewer than we imagine.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Can someone help me understand where the term "righteous anger" comes from?

Since I used that term in starting the thread, I'll respond.

I was asking precisely what you thought, do people think there is a proper time for anger. It is probably not hard to guess where I stand on it (and you would be partially right.) I wanted to know though what other people think. I actually assumed that most would share your opinion. I have really appreciated reading the different opinions and insightful thoughts.

Since I am on this path of healing from abuse, and I have not forgiven my abuser, people probably assume I am full of anger and rage. All I can say is yes and no. I was never allowed to show anger as a child...if I did had it would have mad things a lot worse for me. So while I do have suppressed rage, it is hard for me to allow myself to feel it and figure out what to do with it. It truly is a puzzling thing to me.

But yes, I think there are times when anger is necessary, or justified. For example, if you as a parent find out someone has molested your child, you don't calmly suggest that the two shake hands and play nice. No, you get angry and you call the police and press charges.

On the other hand, when I searched lds.org for some quotes for my writing project, all I could find was talks about how anger is bad. So what does that mean? That is part of why I asked what people here think..to help me sort out this mysterious emotion.

Anyway...I am appreciated all the posts. Thank you!!!

[ZionsRodeVos]

...

But yes, I think there are times when anger is necessary, or justified. For example, if you as a parent find out someone has molested your child, you don't calmly suggest that the two shake hands and play nice. No, you get angry and you call the police and press charges.

...

I don't believe anger has to be the emotional response in this situation. Sadness could be the emotion a person could feel and then call the police and press charges to ensure it did not happen again.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I don't believe anger has to be the emotional response in this situation. Sadness could be the emotion a person could feel and then call the police and press charges to ensure it did not happen again.

It is hard for me to imagine that that would be someone's first reaction, but I don't know what other people feel. Heck, I have suppressed my own feelings for so long I don't even know what I feel. But I wonder, would "sadness" be enough to make you take action?

When people cover up abuse, what emotion or motivation is behind that? I'm thinking specifically of a website that said that the Caholic church did not do more, earlier about the abuse because they weren't angry enough, they wanted to be forgiving etc.

What do all of you think?

[Dravin]

I don't believe anger has to be the emotional response in this situation. Sadness could be the emotion a person could feel and then call the police and press charges to ensure it did not happen again.

And one doesn't even need to have an emotional response to take that action, it could be decided upon completely by logic rather than emotion. Now it's an emotive situation so I'd be surprised if anyone actually lacked any emotive response but not being angry doesn't equal having them shake hands and play nice. One could for instance calmly call the police and press charges.

But yes, I think there are times when anger is necessary, or justified. For example, if you as a parent find out someone has molested your child, you don't calmly suggest that the two shake hands and play nice. No, you get angry and you call the police and press charges.

As pointed out above by both myself and ZionRodeVos this is a false dichotomy. Now anger is going to be the common and understandable reaction that precedes the calling of the cops but it isn't a required one.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Dravin