winterstar Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 I was discussing some topics with someone, and the idea came up that Jesus was the only sinless one in heaven of all of God's spirit children. I haven't heard that before, but I do know he was the only one that was sinless on earth. (except I once heard Noah of the Ark was too.) Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Noah needed the atonement just as much as any other person who has received a mortal body. However, the idea of him being perfect without sin, is probably stemming from an incorrect interpretation of this verse: Moses 8: 27And thus Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord; for Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generation; and he walked with God, as did also his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.At BYU, my gospel doctrine teacher emphasized that Christ was the only perfect spirit also in our pre-mortal life. I haven't come across any scripture which specifically shares this myself. This however, rings true to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 ...At BYU, my gospel doctrine teacher emphasized that Christ was the only perfect spirit also in our pre-mortal life. I haven't come across any scripture which specifically shares this myself. This however, rings true to my ears.What about the Holy Ghost?The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 What about the Holy Ghost?The TravelerGreat question. I do not know, and there isn't enough known regarding the Holy Ghost to be able to give an accurate answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterstar Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Thanks guys! I think it will be fascinating in many ways to get to Heaven. So many things to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ghostwind Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) Thanks guys!I think it will be fascinating in many ways to get to Heaven. So many things to learn....If you knew how to convince the Cherubim to let you in... but take it easy and don't hurry. Better stay here for a while and better see the clouds and stars from the ground than from "above". Edited February 7, 2013 by ghostwind grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 "Sin in Heaven". . . is that an Eric Clapton song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I was discussing some topics with someone, and the idea came up that Jesus was the only sinless one in heaven of all of God's spirit children.I haven't heard that before, but I do know he was the only one that was sinless on earth. (except I once heard Noah of the Ark was too.)Any thoughts?... depends how you look at it... if all of them are going to go through mortality, then ya only christ will end up being perfectly sinless.If the statement assumes that spirits in heaven (before coming to earth, and who were not cast out) sinned, that is an awful lot of assumption on stuff we don't have. Was there sin in heaven? We could conclude there was- Satan's rebellion fits the definition of sin, however we must note all those who chose to defy God's commands were cast from heaven before spirits gained mortality on earth. That's about all I can draw on sin in heaven without further revelation without going into pure conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 ...If you knew how to convince the Cherubim to let you in... but take it easy and don't hurry. Better stay here for a while and better see the clouds and stars from the ground than from "above". I am impressed that you referenced the scriptural symbolism of the Cherubim - which is the plural of Cherub. Have you looked at the symbols associated with Cherubim in scripture and found where those symbols also exist in scripture without the Cherub reference? Thus my question - why do we associate the symbolism of a Cherub to be a level or order of angles? Example - symbolically - who is responsible for who does or does not enter heaven - becoming a recipient of salvation?The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsMagnolia Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 "Sin in Heaven". . . is that an Eric Clapton song? Tears in Heaven... but sin causes tears... sooo.. Eric Clapton might have been talking about the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ghostwind Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I am impressed that you referenced the scriptural symbolism of the Cherubim - which is the plural of Cherub. Have you looked at the symbols associated with Cherubim in scripture and found where those symbols also exist in scripture without the Cherub reference? Thus my question - why do we associate the symbolism of a Cherub to be a level or order of angles? Example - symbolically - who is responsible for who does or does not enter heaven - becoming a recipient of salvation?The TravelerSorry, Traveler, but I don't exactly understand your question. It's my deficient English. It was simply a joke because he seemingly was so sure coming to Heaven one day that I remembered the Cherubim as some kind of guards watching the gates of paradise. Yes. it's Hebrew and it's a plural form. But what do you mean by symbols that also exist in scripture without the Cherub reference? And I also don't understand your last question in your last sentence. Can you express your question in a different way? Sometimes I understand only "Chinese" here in these forums... Or perhaps I've been "switched" to German again, because my poor mind is saying: Go home, boy, in speaking German you're a master, but here you're a slave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 No, don't go home. Stay here. We like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I'm having trouble understanding the OP's premise. Are we talking about pre-earth life? Or are we referencing the after-life and exaltation? As was discussed, there was sin in pre-earth life by defying the will of Heavenly Father. I don't think it was presenting an alternate plan to the Father as I believe He would be open to all ideas... but in leading His spirit children away from His plan in open rebellion. In the afterlife, I believe that we would be perfected to the point that we would not have any DESIRE to sin, so there would be no sin and no temptation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Sorry, Traveler, but I don't exactly understand your question. It's my deficient English. It was simply a joke because he seemingly was so sure coming to Heaven one day that I remembered the Cherubim as some kind of guards watching the gates of paradise. Yes. it's Hebrew and it's a plural form. But what do you mean by symbols that also exist in scripture without the Cherub reference? And I also don't understand your last question in your last sentence. Can you express your question in a different way? Sometimes I understand only "Chinese" here in these forums... Or perhaps I've been "switched" to German again, because my poor mind is saying: Go home, boy, in speaking German you're a master, but here you're a slave...English is my native (and only) language and I never understand him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Sorry, Traveler, but I don't exactly understand your question. It's my deficient English. It was simply a joke because he seemingly was so sure coming to Heaven one day that I remembered the Cherubim as some kind of guards watching the gates of paradise. Yes. it's Hebrew and it's a plural form. But what do you mean by symbols that also exist in scripture without the Cherub reference? And I also don't understand your last question in your last sentence. Can you express your question in a different way? Sometimes I understand only "Chinese" here in these forums... Or perhaps I've been "switched" to German again, because my poor mind is saying: Go home, boy, in speaking German you're a master, but here you're a slave... Gutan tag mine hier - your English is far better than either my German or Chinese. Concerning the Cherubim that is to "keep" the way to heaven - there is a most interesting symbol in the Genesis account of the Bible - the symbol of a sword with a flame. The question is - where on one’s way to heaven is a being encountered with the association of a sword and a flame? I have found an account in Revelation 1:13-19. It seems to me that the Cherub that keeps the way is Christ. From your German translations you may have a different impression. You may think you have a disadvantage on the forum because you are stuck here with English - but rest assured your contribution and input is priceless. Where else can we get anything close to what you offer - especially because you see the scriptures in a different language? The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNirom Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I read a book sometime ago about a young man who died in a plane crash and was brought back to life. He had a NDE experience. He made a wonderful trip. I prepared a 20 minutes talk after reading the Book and did the same as Mormon did.. I abridged the book I read. Here is a part where he talks about sin in Heaven: The flowers in heaven fascinated me. Again, a delightful and delicate balance between diversity and unity. Each was unique. All were one. And they were beautiful to behold. Each petal and leaf illuminated with that glorious light and added just the right splashes of color to the velvety expanse of green grass. As I described previously, the grass, the sky, the walls, the houses, everything was more beautiful than I ever dreamed anything could be. Even the colors. They were richer, deeper, more luminescent than any colors I have ever seen in the farthest reaches of earth or in the most fantastic of dreams. They were so vibrant they pulsated with life. Each and every color, no matter how varied, took its color from the glistening whiteness that permeated heaven. Part of the joy I was experiencing was not only the presence of everything wonderful but the absence of everything terrible. There was no strife, no competition, no sarcasm, no betrayal, no deception, no lies, no murders, no unfaithfulness, no disloyalty, nothing contrary to the light and life and love. In short, there was no sin. And the absence of sin was something you could feel. There was no shame, because there was nothing to be ashamed of. There was no sadness, because there was nothing to be sad about. There was no need to hide, because there was nothing to hide from. It was all out in the open. Clean and pure. Here was perfection. Complete and utter perfection. The revelation of sin's absence was astounding and exhilarating. A perfect place where there is no sin. I had been in heaven for some time before I recognized sin's absence. Now I contemplated the one thing that dominated everything on earth that infected everything on earth, but was missing here. It can be compared to oxygen. I went through life not really thinking about the air I was breathing while I worked, slept, ate, and drove. But take that air away and I would think about nothing else. Similarly, I was so accustomed to sin that I hadn't even recognized its far-reaching effects in every part of life. But nothing had been tainted in heaven by sin's destructive touch. This perfection experienced was largely due to the absence of sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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