Very Smart People

[Seminarysnoozer]

Mortal "genius" is always a comparative statement. It doesn't mean much to the one who hopes to have all that God has. Also, we know that the level of one's intelligence here in mortality is not linearly related to their pre-mortal intelligence. Just ask anyone who has a Down's syndrome child. IQ tests have to change over time and with cultural differences.

We are in a fallen state. We are far far lower than where we were before. How far have we fallen? I don't think we can really grasp that right now. But just for purposes of discussion, lets say we are currently no closer than one one-thousandth of our pre-mortal intelligence. If we took that perspective than looking at someone who has an IQ of 150 compared to someone with an IQ of 80, that difference is such a miniscule difference compared to where they both will be once the veil is lifted. When taken in that perspective, we are all in the same boat. In other words, what we are calling "genius" here in mortality would be considered severely mentally handicapped in heaven, to the point of it not really being on the same chart.

Also note the fact that where much is given much is required evens the playing field. God is not a respecter of persons.

[JimJohnson]

Depends on how you define "genius." The inventor of the Stanford-Binet IQ test placed "genius" level at an IQ of 140 or above. Being that my IQ is 143, I definitely consider myself a blessing rather than a curse. If we're talking Einstein-caliber geniuses, that eliminates a lot more of the population.

I grew up during those decades when the Stanford-Binet was all the rage. My score is 160 but I have known several friends with a much highter score than mine. My parents, siblings and children also had very high scores and score remarkably high on the verbal portions of the two main college entrance exams. We love a good bull session when we get together but....

That is the primary advantage to a high IQ in my opinion. I have not been particularly successful in my life, speaking of worldly success. My other family members have been a mixed bag as well, no world class scientists, musicians, etc. Mostly a high IQ just makes it hard to get along with others, so it is often more a handicap than an advantage.

My vocabularly seems very large to many others. Yet it is the only one I have. If I use a word they are unfamiliar with, they think I am putting them down. In reality I am not even aware that the word I used was a "big word." But doing it even once can permanently prejudice another. It is not as big a problem at Church, but still a problem. Faithful saints are more patient, slower to be offended, more loving, less likely to judge others, and place a higher value on faithfulness in others. Of course this does not describe all of them, but the group average is much higher than most other places. As a result, my "obnoxious" personality is not as big a problem as it is many other places such as school or work. College professors seem especially intimidated if they do not feel like the smartest person in the room.

If I could take a pill that would knock 20 percent off my IQ, I would do so immediately. IQ doesn't make you happy any more than money does. In my case it has never been an asset in my work, and in most fields the ability to get along well with coworkers is far more important than IQ. Unless a person is a research scientist, PhD economist or in some other occupation demanding extraordinary IQ, he would actually get along better in life without it.

Finally, there seems to be a higher than usual frequency of mental illness among those who have very high IQs. There are many personal qualities that are better indicators of future worldly success than how high ones IQ is. Just my opinion, obviously.

[JimJohnson]

I've know many intelligent people. And many individuals who thought it was very important that I realize that they were intelligent. There is a huge difference.

I think anyone that is prideful of their blessings either good looks or intelligence can be rather irritating to be around.

If we were able to test Jesus Christ's IQ, I'm sure that He would be off the chart. Does that mean that He is irritating? Doubt it.

There were surely a few who thought he was irritating. The Pharisees did. <grin>

[Vort]

If I could take a pill that would knock 20 percent off my IQ, I would do so immediately.

You're in luck! People do it all the time.

[Seminarysnoozer]

IQ doesn't make you happy any more than money does.

In both cases, they are comparative measures against others. The problems that make both of those things create unhappiness is when one who 'has' judges one who 'doesn't have' or one who 'doesn't have' judges one 'has'. In other words, it has the potential to be an assault on humility, in either direction.

Fortunately, the Celestial Kingdom is a place where everyone loves their neighbor as their self. In other words, they rejoice in the success of others and feel the success as if they had done it their self. Whereas here both the people who have and the people who don't have run the risk of making those characteristics proprietary as if they somehow created the situation on their own. The risk of having either IQ or money in this life is when the person does not give all thanks to God for those privileges and acts like their high IQ or their large pocketbook is as a result of who they are more than what they were given.

IQ and money can be a blessing if one realizes where they got those things and don't claim them as a reward or a sign of personal achievement based in their own actions but as a stewardship for this temporary existence. Intelligence that is as a result of one's temporary carnal body make up is just as temporary as the person who has Down's Syndrome.

[Dove]

Just wondering how everyone feels about geniuses. In general do you feel that geniuses are a blessing or a curse to society? Do you personally enjoy conversing with someone who’s IQ is off the charts are do you find them somewhat arrogant and a pain in the nick. Do you seek them out or do you avoid them?

Studies would indicate that society, in general, tends to dislike the very smart – unless the smart person is their offspring. I notice that on the TV show “Big Bang Theory” that there seems to be a tendency to make fun and belittle the main character (and others) as someone that in reality is a bumbling fool; a stereotyping that in any other setting would be considered blatant prejudice.

As I think about it – most entertainment humor now days seem to rely very heavily on ridiculing someone intelligent trying to accomplish some good or someone in authority trying to keep order in society.

Do we as a society dislike and support the dislike of very smart people?

The Traveler

Hello, Traveler;

I think that whether or not I like a "genius" or very smart person has nothing to do with his/her intelligence, as much as it has to do with how that person handles their intelligence. Meaning, are they humble or prideful about it? Do they use their "intelligence" to build me up or tear me down when I'm in their presence? Do they think they're better than me, simply because they can out-think me?

One of my best friends in High School was a genius and a member of MENSA. Yet, he never made me feel less than him for my average intelligence......

I think humility is so important for all of us....I think of Abraham 3:19;

"And the Lord said unto me; These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they are; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all."

If I had a pet peeve concerning smart people, or those who feel they are, it is when they begin to negate the absolute intelligence of God. When they begin to attribute to Him a lack of "omniscience" or, how do I say it? All-knowing intelligence.

I think it's important for all of us to remain humble (very much myself included) and to remember who we are in relationship to God; which is, broken, fallible, finite, mortal and as nothing.....

Dove

[JimJohnson]

Hello, Traveler;

I think that whether or not I like a "genius" or very smart person has nothing to do with his/her intelligence, as much as it has to do with how that person handles their intelligence. Meaning, are they humble or prideful about it? Do they use their "intelligence" to build me up or tear me down when I'm in their presence? Do they think they're better than me, simply because they can out-think me?

As I wroter earlier, some and perhaps most people resent someone who has a larger vocabulary than their own. They feel that when a person uses a "big word" they are putting them down even when it isn't so. Nobody likes be put down.

For myself, I like associating with both humble and arrogant people because I like anyone who doesn't mistreat me. I judge others on how well they treat me. Period. With that said, I have always found others are more comfortable around me if they are about as smart as I am or maybe even a little smarter. It means I do not have to contend with this feeling so many have that I am trying to put them down.

But I have another reason for preferring the company of those like my wife who are more intelligent than I am. I like to learn from others. I like them to understand the various concepts that I like to share. But more than that, I like to be introduced to new ideas and concepts that I obtain in greater abundance from those as smart or smarter than I am. For an example, I love to discuss politics and religion. Some people will not discuss these things. There are many men who will discuss only booze, women, cars and football. This is not very stimulation.

[Traveler]

Many years ago I came across a rather interesting study of advanced students in the Chicago area. What happened is that the top 50 Sophomore High School students were put into a special program to see if giving them special attention would advance their studies. At the same time the bottom 50 Sophomore High School students were also put into a special program to see if they could be helped to achieve.

The results of the study produced exactly what was expected - the bright students did very well and advanced as everyone knew they would and the bottom 50 did poorly as expected. The study would have remained in obscurity but a startling discovery was made. On accident the two groups has been mixed up. It turns out that the attitude of the teachers that prejudged their students had far more influence that anyone imagined.

It is almost a classic tale that a teacher comes to a poor performing school with an attitude of teaching and suddenly the students in their class are performing at unbelievable levels. In the 60’s there was a movie that had a hit song about such a teacher - the song was called “To Sir With Love”. The story of underachiever becoming overachievers plays not just in education. But the most important lesson is that our attitude towards others can often be the difference in them being seen a bumbling buffoons or brilliant achievers.

I believe the saddest thing to me are parents that either think their children brilliant but never expect and lets them perform (the helicopter parent) always stepping in and taking over - or the parent that thinks their child will never amount to anything.

Sometimes I believe that the reason Jesus told us to love our enemies is so that we learn to see the good in others and thus change both them and us in the process. I am convinced that those that we disagree with will make us much smarter than those that we always find agreement with - Mostly I think we like our friends because they make us think we are smart. Strange - that we think our friends are smart and our opponents are stupid?

The Traveler

[JimJohnson]

Sometimes I believe that the reason Jesus told us to love our enemies is so that we learn to see the good in others and thus change both them and us in the process. I am convinced that those that we disagree with will make us much smarter than those that we always find agreement with - Mostly I think we like our friends because they make us think we are smart. Strange - that we think our friends are smart and our opponents are stupid?

----

In the 13th Chapter of First Corinthians we learn that "charity" is more important than any other observance of our faith, and that without it we will not obtain salvation or eternal life even if we excel in everything else. I think that your observation that "we learn to see the good in others" lies at the very core of charity. I know that I will never be a charitable person until I habitually think well of others. For me it is a much greater challenge than any of the virtues needed to qualify for a temple recommend. And I agree that we learn most from those who disagree with us if they can do it in a loving way.

It is strange that we think our friends are smart and opponents stupid, but we need to remember that eternal truth does not change and only God has a perfect understanding of it. It is not to be confused with personal opinion. Some opinions really are stupid depending on how well they harmonize with eternal truth. For instance, my father was a medical doctor, highly educated, highly intelligent and an atheist. Well, how smart can a guy be who thinks the universe created itself along with everything in it? There never was an atheist who actually witnessed anything creating itself. There is no scientific or any other kind of evidence for such a thing. Those who believe it just have to take it on faith the same as a religious person might.

Without a much better definition of "smart" it is hard draw any conclusions about the relative inteligence of our friends and opponents. But we should remember that "smart" notwithstanding and friends and opponents aside, there actually is a truth and some opinions have more truth than others.